Is Cadillac still on track?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

With all the talk of a new Saturn and Global RWD for most of GM's other divisions. Not much has been said about Cadillac's future.

They've got a good line up now but they CANNOT afford to sit on their laurels. Are all of their replacement programs on Sigma still on track???

I just think it'd be a crying shame if GM began ignoring Cadillac again and the brand started regressing AGAIN.

[Croc]

Um...Are you forgetting THREE all-new, amazing trucks? What about the DTS? Huge improvement over the 2000 model. SRX refresh for 2007? Check. New CTS for the following year? Check. STS facelift pix? Check. The only "neglected" model would then be the XLR? It just got a new interior a year ago.

[VenSeattle]

We just had a recent topic discussing this. It has most of the info available... but, like all topics, it strays...

Here you go.

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...?showtopic=4796

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Um...Are you forgetting THREE all-new, amazing trucks?  What about the DTS?  Huge improvement over the 2000 model.  SRX refresh for 2007? Check.  New CTS for the following year? Check.  STS facelift pix?  Check.  The only "neglected" model would then be the XLR?  It just got a new interior a year ago.

Escalade is a guranteed hit and Cadillac is already strong on the truck side. DTS: Yes, but, not where it should be (And I happen to know of when it will be replaced) The jury is still out on the SRX refresh as to whether it'll be just smoke an mirrors or actually have substance. CTS is a given, STS is still foggy and will not serve it's purpose unless a new interior is grafted in. And I would hardly call the XLR enhancements a new interior.

Besides, I'm talking on down the road.... 2010-2012.

[Croc]

I consider DTS a hit because: it is a better car in every way over the outgoing model. The two drive so differently, and that is in a good way. No more squishy break pedal, much better seats, etc.

It will sell well to its audience.

[carstar]

Besides, I'm talking on down the road.... 2010-2012.

around that time we'll likely see a

next generation DTS/Deville, XLR, and (something close) sixteen sedan.

maybe a next gen esclade too.

[cavalier36]

id like to see Cadillac offer a more affordable coupe/convertible.. something about $35,000..

[turbo200]

not everything is so rosy with Cadillac: DTS competes poorly against the highline luxury makes, doesn't really compete against anything; there still is no credible S-class competitor along with no coupes and verts aside from XLR; XLR design is getting stale, interior is outdated, engine needs more power in regular and V form to better compete; STS is uncompetitive, needs complete interior overhaul and exterior overhaul as well as increased width and some more interior room to better differentiate from CTS, none of this will happen with expected refresh which we should see a new fascia and that's about it; SRX refresh is coming, we'll see...

[Flybrian]

not everything is so rosy with Cadillac: DTS competes poorly against the highline luxury makes, doesn't really compete against anything;

Disagree. Lincoln Town Car. That's it, but its competition and it does a respectable job at kicking its ass. Unfortunately, the center of the market has passed them both by.

[turbo200]

you said it yourself with your center of the market comment. DTS represents old school GM think. Let's sell a car that is big on the outside with a big engine and market it for a real high price and make a good margin on it. This works in practice, until the second year of the model comes around and all of a sudden value of the model has plummetted since everyone really wants a true luxury full-size sedan and they go over to MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Lexus who will offer something with real technological achievements. Luxury buyers are either well researched or trying to buy into the idea of luxury, and so they go for something with lesser image, but they're uninformed so they don't know that. Cadillac needs to concentrate on profit, image, pricing, value, technology, style, leadership. DTS does none of these well. In fact I believe a lot of what we're seeing from DTS sales improvements is fleets. I'm sure it drives real well and is comfortable, that's why it belongs as a Buick.

[Intrepidation]

Yeah, if buyers want a big, comfy, luxury cruiser, that's what the Buick brand isss for, Caddy should be about performance luxury, especially since they're targeting BMW and the like.

[Croc]

Cadillac needs to concentrate on profit, image, pricing, value, technology, style, leadership. DTS does none of these well. In fact I believe a lot of what we're seeing from DTS sales improvements is fleets. I'm sure it drives real well and is comfortable, that's why it belongs as a Buick.

Yea, so you need to drive one before you bitch about it. The new ones aren't that bad, believe it or not.

[CaddyXLR-V]

you said it yourself with your center of the market comment. DTS represents old school GM think. Let's sell a car that is big on the outside with a big engine and market it for a real high price and make a good margin on it. This works in practice, until the second year of the model comes around and all of a sudden value of the model has plummetted since everyone really wants a true luxury full-size sedan and they go over to MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Lexus who will offer something with real technological achievements. Luxury buyers are either well researched or trying to buy into the idea of luxury, and so they go for something with lesser image, but they're uninformed so they don't know that. Cadillac needs to concentrate on profit, image, pricing, value, technology, style, leadership. DTS does none of these well. In fact I believe a lot of what we're seeing from DTS sales improvements is fleets. I'm sure it drives real well and is comfortable, that's why it belongs as a Buick.

It already is a Buick, the Lucerne. The Buick looks better too.

[turbo200]

Yea, so you need to drive one before you bitch about it.  The new ones aren't that bad, believe it or not.

not bitching, you misunderstood, and my words are there never changed. it's not a bad car, but not the right car Cadillac needs in its upwards march. Doesn't compete against the LS, S-class, A8, 7, then what exactly should we think of Caddy?

[turbo200]

I said Cadillac needs to concentrate on value and pricing. To explain this a little further, when you're in the luxury field that means the opposite of the regular market. Cadillac needs to concentrate on offering more in its car so it can price them higher, more percieved value, quality, and higher levels of technology and style.

[Flybrian]

You make valid point, Turbo, but you're missing the big one - DeVille/DTS is a transition vehicle. Believe or not, there are people who want this type of car and the pricing is absolutely reasonable for what it is.

[turbo200]

pricing seems good on DTS, and you're right that it's a transitional vehicle. I just feel it does more harm than good, and STS should have been more of a viable replacement for the old Deville. As it is, CTS and STS have stolen a lot of that car's sales, so it makes sense that a lot of Deville shoppers are just loyal Caddy shoppers.

[Croc]

pricing seems good on DTS, and you're right that it's a transitional vehicle. I just feel it does more harm than good, and STS should have been more of a viable replacement for the old Deville. As it is, CTS and STS have stolen a lot of that car's sales, so it makes sense that a lot of Deville shoppers are just loyal Caddy shoppers.

No they haven't. The DTS has a nicer interior than the STS. The DTS is also much more comfortable than the STS. Again, you do not know what you are talking about.

[Northstar]

I think a lot of the DTS "buyers" are to fleet companies. The CTS and probably the STS too outsell it in the retail market.

I think this will be the last DTS/Deville. There is no replacement for the G-Body, and by the time it needs a replacement we will be looking at the ULS (hopefully).

[Croc]

higher levels of technology

Yea, you're right. Adaptive cruise control, night vision, head up display, heated and cooled seats, Northstar engines...yea, the Devilles/DTSs are just sooooooo low-tech.

[Croc]

I think a lot of the DTS "buyers" are to fleet companies. The CTS and probably the STS too outsell it in the retail market.

I think this will be the last DTS/Deville. There is no replacement for the G-Body, and by the time it needs a replacement we will be looking at the ULS (hopefully).

I'm not sure of that. I see quite a few of them on the roads without rental car stickers on them. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Zeta DTS in 2012.

[Croc]

then what exactly should we think of Caddy?

That they aren't making the mistake of Olds and abandoning their core buyer base in their transition?