Cadillac Eyes Super Vs and Tuner Vs à la Saleen,

[Variance]

IL Exclusive: Cadillac Eyes Super Vs and Tuner Vs à la Saleen, Brabus

Date posted: 03-23-2006

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Cadillac is stepping up its performance game, with plans for ultratuner versions of the CTS-V, STS-V and XLR-V, as well as the possibility of a new "Super V" lineup.

Cadillac product director John Howell told Inside Line the company is already feeling out the market for such products. No timetable has been set for when the beefed-up models would go into production, but Howell confirmed what has been widely rumored for some time — that Cadillac does not want to be left in the dust by such competitors as Mercedes-Benz or even its domestic rival Ford.

"We are considering tuner versions of the Vs and working with an outside company, like Mercedes does with Brabus or Ford does with Saleen," Howell told IL at the launch of the 2007 Cadillac Escalade and the XLR-V and STS-V here on Tuesday. "We need to look at it. We don't want to be left out."

Cadillac has not chosen a tuning house yet, but Howell said he would be inclined to select a "more European-oriented" company. "We don't want too much of a muscle-car image," he said. "Brabus is a possibility. McLaren is a possibility, as well as Alpina, Lorinser and Dinan. We want more refinement oriented, as opposed to racing oriented.

"Hot interiors would need to be a big part of it," Howell said. "And we could probably go to 20s [20-inch wheels and tires]."

Howell said, "Super Vs are under consideration, too. These would be models with some increase in power. They would take the bar higher in terms of handling and wheel and tire size."

He would not specify what kind of engine would go into the Super V lineup, but noted that the GM brand has "played with 12 cylinders in its show cars."

What this means to you: Cadillac wants to play with the really big boys, in terms of power and sophistication.

Link: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109736

[Northstar]

I could see one or the other, buy why would they need both?

[Imaj]

Brabus is a possibility. McLaren is a possibility, as well as Alpina, Lorinser and Dinan. We want more refinement oriented, as opposed to racing oriented

They could get Lingenfelter or Mallet to do the same and even better!

[Bimmer325]

Wouldn't 'Super V' conflict with Buick's upcoming 'Super' line?

[Northstar]

I don't think they would call it 'Super V,' I hope they don't at least.

[Variance]

Wasn't "V-Plus" (or "V+") being considered or rumored at one time?

[pow]

I'm waiting for SSS.

[ltm_awake]

lingenfelter or mallet, all the way.

[Cadillacfan]

Wow. This will be great. Just imagine the possibilities.

Looks the Z06 may not be GM's fastest production vehicle anymore when these babies come out.

Either that.. or the Blue Devil project is moving a long nicely.

[Newbiewar]

well GM must look at it from a profitablity stand point...

will a front page compo on every magazine bring enough attention to cadillac dealerships to fund such "super" technology, because any sort of Super car wouldnt afford itself under most production levels of exhotic cars...

the CTS-V is not all that super in my eyes, its a great daily driver for someone who likes rwd, manual transmission, power, and versitility(sedan)

but if they made a sedan that was 500+ hp... would the market really be more then 1k units per year? if that?

and for the XLR? the 469 hp v-series is already gonna have trouble hitting 1k units with a sticker price of 100k would a sticker price of 120-150k really sell all that many more units? V-12? 600hp?

what about a DTS-V? that could sell at least 3k a year or more... why focus on V super when not all models are even V-series? isnt the DTS supposed to be the flag ship?

[balthazar]

DTS is not the flagship in my eye, and I do not believe --at least in the current iteration-- that Cadillac intends it as such either. Besides- one of the hallmarks of the Vs is sub-5-sec acceleration- more of a challenge with the FWD DTS.

These 'Super V / V+' models are nothing about sales numbers. Those should never be a focus- it's not why the models would exist.

No way should brabus of dinan be chosen- they are already associated with m-b & bmw. "Muscle-car" my ass; go with what works. Lingenfelter bears a long hard look, IMO. Keep it an American tuner by all means.

Edited March 24, 2006 by balthazar

[CaddyXLR-V]

well GM must look at it from a profitablity stand point...

will a front page compo on every magazine bring enough attention to cadillac dealerships to fund such "super" technology, because any sort of Super car wouldnt afford itself under most production levels of exhotic cars...

the CTS-V is not all that super in my eyes, its a great daily driver for someone who likes rwd, manual transmission, power, and versitility(sedan)

but if they made a sedan that was 500+ hp... would the market really be more then 1k units per year? if that?

and for the XLR? the 469 hp v-series is already gonna have trouble hitting 1k units with a sticker price of 100k would a sticker price of 120-150k really sell all that many more units? V-12? 600hp?

what about a DTS-V? that could sell at least 3k a year or more... why focus on V super when not all models are even V-series? isnt the DTS supposed to be the flag ship?

Why would they not be profitable? They are already based off an existing car. They would be tuned by an outside tuner, and marked-up accordingly. They are not meant to sell alot, they are more for image.

GM could never make a DTS-v. 400+ hp to a FWD car? It's not going to happen. STS is the flagship, and has been more expensive than the DTS even though it is smaller.

[Nick]

Cadillac has not chosen a tuning house yet, but Howell said he would be inclined to select a "more European-oriented" company. "We don't want too much of a muscle-car image," he said. "Brabus is a possibility. McLaren is a possibility, as well as Alpina, Lorinser and Dinan. We want more refinement oriented, as opposed to racing oriented.

Brabus and Lorinser are for MB. Alpina and Dinan are for BMW. In my opinion, Cadillac should not be looking into the direction of these tuners for support. McLaren could be a possibility I guess, but just like all the other groups, Cadillac should have their own dedicated tuning group. It's just a matter of getting a collaborative effort going among enthusiasts, investors, and engineers to develope products and packages that suit Cadillacs specifically.

[RBB]

They could get Lingenfelter or Mallet to do the same and even better!

"We don't want too much of a muscle-car image," he said.

-RBB

[mphmag]

and youguys missed our tidbits the past few weeks in rumors regarding this.

http://www.mph-online.com/mag/rumors/007

[ToniCipriani]

I'm waiting for SSS.

SSS used to be a trim level for the Nissan Bluebird.

[Newbiewar]

Why would they not be profitable? They are already based off an existing car. They would be tuned by an outside tuner, and marked-up accordingly. They are not meant to sell alot, they are more for image.

GM could never make a DTS-v. 400+ hp to a FWD car? It's not going to happen. STS is the flagship, and has been more expensive than the DTS even though it is smaller.

why would it not be profitable?

say it costs Cadillac lets just say 50 million to design all 3 models which is a very slim budget... that means that some how, over the lifetime of the product, they must re-earn that 50 million in development costs in their Super V series... sure because these cars will be on the cover of every magazine, it will help sell other cadillacs... but how many extra vehicles will need to be sold to cover the costs of that original investment? because making 1k CTS's isnt going to cut it... selling maybe 750 STS's inst going to fund it... and another 750 XLR's just isnt going to bring in that extra 50 million

is this Super Cadillac going to share any development costs of the blue devil? if so then i think its wise to have multipule vehicles to share the same developments on...

Edited March 24, 2006 by Newbiewar

[CaddyXLR-V]

why would it not be profitable?

say it costs Cadillac lets just say 50 million to design all 3 models which is a very slim budget... that means that some how, over the lifetime of the product, they must re-earn that 50 million in development costs in their Super V series... sure because these cars will be on the cover of every magazine, it will help sell other cadillacs... but how many extra vehicles will need to be sold to cover the costs of that original investment? because making 1k CTS's isnt going to cut it... selling maybe 750 STS's inst going to fund it... and another 750 XLR's just isnt going to bring in that extra 50 million

is this Super Cadillac going to share any development costs of the blue devil? if so then i think its wise to have multipule vehicles to share the same developments on...

Cadillac wouldn't be doing the work........the tuner would.

[Paolino]

I think this is great... some extremely powerful cars that handle very well--hot interiors? Keep up the quality, and then maybe, just possibly, GM will get some respect from the press.

[Newbiewar]

Cadillac wouldn't be doing the work........the tuner would.

ahh... thats good... what about those guys that are working on the kappas?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

First of all, I think working with an outside tuner sounds EXCELLENT

But, ditch the Super V Just make the IMPROVEMENTS to the current V-series line up, and (here's a revalation) CALL THEM V-SERIES.

Then the original V-Series traits could filter into the base models.

[ellives]

I agree FOG. Cadillac needs to push the limit and not add too many variations. Cadillac should already be the "reach" car.

First of all, I think working with an outside tuner sounds EXCELLENT

But, ditch the Super V Just make the IMPROVEMENTS to the current V-series line up, and (here's a revalation) CALL THEM V-SERIES.

Then the original V-Series traits could filter into the base models.