New Camry LE (run-of-the-mill version) revealed

[corvette_dude729]

After seeing the high-res pics of the Camry and Lucerne interiors that toyoguy posted, I'm even less impressed with the Camry's interior.  It's so damn boring.  The Lucerne has a nice mixture of color, warm wood, etc...the Camry has huge slabs of gray dash with nothing on them.  I do like the look of the center stack of the Camry, but otherwise it's nothing special.

That was a LaCrosse, not a Lucerne.

[toyoguy]

Design presence is subjective.  The Impala's is fine, the Camry's is fine.  Matter of opinion. 

If the Impala is fine, then the Camry is exceptional. The Impala interior isn't even competitve w/today's econo-boxs.

And illuminated gauges always, ALWAYS look better than day-time pictures.  During the day, without illumination, there's nothing special about the Camry's gauge cluster.  Just a flat piece of plastic with some numbers and needles.  Woohoo!

No, the gauges are always lit. You can hardly read them otherwise.

Give me a break.  Hell, the G6, Altima, and Mazda6 all have WAY better gauge clusters than both cars.  At least there's some design to them.

That's subjective. The Camry's target is 50yr olds, the colors/shapes are meant to appeal to them.

[Flybrian]

I like how your last response contridicts itself. What is subjective is what you personally deem subjective.

[Snate]

Whew this thread hit a nerve with the resident Toyota fans.

[Northstar]

That's subjective.  The Camry's target is 50yr olds, the colors/shapes are meant to appeal to them.

So when you say the Camry has better gauges, it's objective, and when someone says other vehicles have better guages than the Camry, it's subjective? What a load of contradictory

[Flybrian]

Actually, in retrospect, I find it hillarious that this thread went along for about three and a half pages of all types of people commenting on the Camry for better or worse without anyone ever actually saying "...and the Impala/Malibu looks better inside" until Toyoguy decided to make such a comparison and then chastise people for responding to it.

Ironic, eh?

[ToniCipriani]

That's subjective.  The Camry's target is 50yr olds, the colors/shapes are meant to appeal to them.

Well in this case it appears that you are the design expert. Can you list all the different design schemes you have on mind?

[ShadowDog]

Well in this case it appears that you are the design expert. Can you list all the different design schemes you have on mind?

I know I shouldn't answer this question because it wasn't directed to me; however, I'd like to point out that it may not be worth asking a person a question about design schemes that would appeal to all consumers. In his mind, all people should drive a Camry and like it. Anyone else need not remark on their preferrence because they are entirely wrong.

So does that mean Camry drivers don't want to be wrong, and therefore purchase their car out of fear?

[bowtie_dude]

If the Impala is fine, then the Camry is exceptional.  The Impala interior isn't even competitve w/today's econo-boxs.

No, the gauges are always lit.  You can hardly read them otherwise.

That's subjective.  The Camry's target is 50yr olds, the colors/shapes are meant to appeal to them.

By what standards? The Camry's interior is worse, from a design appeal standpoint, than a Mazda3 or VW Jetta.

You're so contradictive. The fact that the Camry gauges are always lit don't mean its any better.

[mustang84]

If the Impala is fine, then the Camry is exceptional.  The Impala interior isn't even competitve w/today's econo-boxs.

Way to be objective and fair.

That's subjective.  The Camry's target is 50yr olds, the colors/shapes are meant to appeal to them.

That's pretty bad if Toyota is targeting the Camry toward 50 year olds...no wonder the Toyota brand is starting to get an "old person's car" stigma. Hence, why Scion was created.

[Variance]

Actually, in retrospect, I find it hillarious that this thread went along for about three and a half pages of all types of people commenting on the Camry for better or worse without anyone ever actually saying "...and the Impala/Malibu looks better inside" until Toyoguy decided to make such a comparison and then chastise people for responding to it.

Ironic, eh?

Ironic? Try puzzling.

[toyoguy]

I like how your last response contridicts itself. What is subjective is what you personally deem subjective.

Nothing contradictive at all, quality is easily visible. The interior in the Camry costs more, most consumers will prefer the more expensive look as well.

[toyoguy]

Actually, in retrospect, I find it hillarious that this thread went along for about three and a half pages of all types of people commenting on the Camry for better or worse without anyone ever actually saying "...and the Impala/Malibu looks better inside" until Toyoguy decided to make such a comparison and then chastise people for responding to it.

Ironic, eh?

It's ironic nobody here comments on GM's interior quality issues, but will on nearly any Toyota, nitpicking even imagined things.

By what standards?  The Camry's interior is worse, from a design appeal standpoint, than a Mazda3 or VW Jetta.

You're so contradictive.  The fact that the Camry gauges are always lit don't mean its any better.

The materials used in the Camry are no worse than those found in either of the above cars.

That's pretty bad if Toyota is targeting the Camry toward 50 year olds...no wonder the Toyota brand is starting to get an "old person's car" stigma.

They're making a profit, that's how business operate. Toyota brand has had the old person's stigma attatched to it for yrs now, they can lose it quite easily if they ever feel the need.

[Flybrian]

It's ironic nobody here comments on GM's interior quality issues, but will on nearly any Toyota, nitpicking even imagined things.

Maybe if you get your head out of the Other Guys section now and then, you'll see people constantly do. Favorites as of late have been the Monte Carlo, Lucerne, and Escalade center stack without navigation. GM's Biggest Fans and Toughest Critics, not People Who Just Don't Like GM.

Toyota brand has had the old person's stigma attatched to it for yrs now, they can lose it quite easily if they ever feel the need.

Scion's existance proves otherwise, as do the failed Genesis vehicles (MR2, Celica, Echo). Toyota couldn't shake their ultrabland, aged vibe, so they had to spin-off a youth-oriented division. Even Toyota's 'young' models like the Corolla and Matrix sell to a decidedly mixed demographic. Look yourself who drives Toyota. The Tacoma is just about the only Toyota-branded offering that sells to younger folks.

[toyoguy]

Well in this case it appears that you are the design expert. Can you list all the different design schemes you have on mind?

I'm no design expert, quality in materials easily seen.

For instance, you do appreciate the low-res green LCD's on Impala's. A hi-res display would be prefered by typical people. Guess which one costs more?

[turbo200]

So when you say the Camry has better gauges, it's objective, and when someone says other vehicles have better guages than the Camry, it's subjective? What a load of contradictory 

since i'm in on this argument already, here's some pictures of gauges from the different cars that were mentioned.

I tried very hard to find the 06 model, but I'm pretty sure the gauges are the same anyways.

I won't answer for toyoguy, but, from my perspective, the Camry has well designed gauges, that are conservative and straightforward, and could be subjectively considered bland by some, but they are at least elegant, professional, executive business looking. the impala's gauges look like they belong on a '90's Explorer. Yes, their design is subjective and you could be attracted to that toy Matchbox look, but why would you be? This is when it becomes objective, the Camry's are clearly in a different class.

When the others are compared to Camry, well you are starting to bring in vehicles that are clearly geared toward different markets. The Impala with its inoffensive exterior and comfortable passanger seating is a natural competitor to Camry and is clearly molded in the same vein as it. Mazda 6 may have more exciting gauges to look at, but it is clearly intended to be that way. That doesn't take away from the quality look of the Camry's gauges.

The GM gauges are the least detailed. They are the flatest in terms of presentation, font that falls flat, colors that have been used for years, complete lack of detailing, just pins needles and a few dull characters.

Edited March 26, 2006 by turbo200

[Variance]

Nothing contradictive at all, quality is easily visible.  The interior in the Camry costs more, most consumers will prefer the more expensive look as well.

It may very well cost more but costing more does not ensure a quality product. See just about any VW as proof of this.

And don't twist this into me saying the Camry doesn't have quality to it.

It's ironic nobody here comments on GM's interior quality issues, but will on nearly any Toyota, nitpicking even imagined things.

Nobody comments on GM interior issues? You must not be looking very hard.

The materials used in the Camry are no worse than those found in either of the above cars.

He specifically said "from a design standpoint" not a quality, tactile standpoint. He's saying their interiors look better than the Camry's.

They're making a profit, that's how business operate.  Toyota brand has had the old person's stigma attatched to it for yrs now, they can lose it quite easily if they ever feel the need.

You can market yourself to a younger audience and still make a profit (Nissan). Losing an "old person car" image is not the least bit easy no matter what brand you are. Cadillac took on a younger image but I don't believe it's completely lost the image of being a brand for the older set.

[toyoguy]

Scion's existance proves otherwise, as do the failed Genesis vehicles (MR2, Celica, Echo).

All poorly undertook endeavors at building performance vehicles. The results were mixed at best, no suprises.

Toyota can build a WRC-homologated turbocharged awd Celica, and MR2 (Fuji).

A Supra could be built based on existing pieces.

2IS platform

350hp 3.5L

400hp 4.6L

or

450hp 5.0L

they won't spend the time or money since there is no pressing need, if there were these vehicles would arrive swiftly.

Toyota couldn't shake their ultrabland, aged vibe, so they had to spin-off a youth-oriented division. Even Toyota's 'young' models like the Corolla and Matrix sell to a decidedly mixed demographic. Look yourself who drives Toyota.

Cars are only intended for those easily fooled, not a major underating injecting any youth in the brand. A minor solution for a currently minor problem, purpose is served

[Flybrian]

Turbo, in all honesty, take away the Optitron lighting and the Camry's gauges are no better than the Impala's. The presentation is bland, flat, two-dimensional with two-colors. Very boring. The only thing saving it are, in fact, that lighting. How come certain other Toyota/Lexus products can combine both Optitron and better layout presentations?

I'm also not defending the Impala's gauges. However, there is no question that it is also laid out simply, with large, easy-to-read digits, but the presentation is lacking.

The cluster on the Impala SS has alot more jazz...

Also, check out the Hybrid Camry's cluster. The above looks crap in comparison.

To both manufacturers, why cheap out?

[Variance]

For instance, you do appreciate the low-res green LCD's on Impala's.  A hi-res display would be prefered by typical people.  Guess which one costs more?

I don't know and I betting you don't, either. Stop with the assumptions.

Here's a close-up of the LE's radio display:

Impala's:

Are black pixels on a tan background somehow more pricey than blue pixels?

In fact, the Impala's display looks more advanced to me.

[toyoguy]

It may very well cost more but costing more does not ensure a quality product. See just about any VW as proof of this.

VW interiors do have a quality look and feel. Reliablility is another matter.

You can market yourself to a younger audience and still make a profit (Nissan).

Nissan's niche, everyone at Nissan knows damn well to stay away from mainstream vehicles (Toyota territory).

Nissan's strategy isn't anywhere near as solid or long-terms as Toyota's. The company is already showing signs of difficutly ahead.

Losing an "old person car" image is not the least bit easy no matter what brand you are. Cadillac took on a younger image but I don't believe it's completely lost the image of being a brand for the older set.

Toyota recently developed the older image. Nobody bothered Toyota when the awd Celica, 2nd-gen MR2, and Supra were around.

Cadillac's image must be reveresed by PROFITABLE vehicles in an intensively competetive market.. That is far more a difficult than building halo-vehicles.

[Ravenfreak13]

I don't know and I betting you don't, either. Stop with the assumptions.

Here's a close-up of the LE's radio display:

Impala's:

Are black pixels on a tan background somehow more pricey than blue pixels?

In fact, the Impala's display looks more advanced to me.

That post was right on the money! Great comparison Variance! I side with you.

[toyoguy]

since i'm in on this argument already, here's some pictures of gauges from the different cars that were mentioned.

I tried very hard to find the 06 model, but I'm pretty sure the gauges are the same anyways.

I won't answer for toyoguy, but, from my perspective, the Camry has well designed gauges, that are conservative and straightforward, and could be subjectively considered bland by some, but they are at least elegant, professional, executive business looking. the impala's gauges look like they belong on a '90's Explorer. Yes, their design is subjective and you could be attracted to that toy Matchbox look, but why would you be? This is when it becomes objective, the Camry's are clearly in a different class.

When the others are compared to Camry, well you are starting to bring in vehicles that are clearly geared toward different markets. The Impala with its inoffensive exterior and comfortable passanger seating is a natural competitor to Camry and is clearly molded in the same vein as it. Mazda 6 may have more exciting gauges to look at, but it is clearly intended to be that way. That doesn't take away from the quality look of the Camry's gauges.

The GM gauges are the least detailed. They are the flatest in terms of presentation, font that falls flat, colors that have been used for years, complete lack of detailing, just pins needles and a few dull characters.

sums it up perfectly.

I don't know and I betting you don't, either. Stop with the assumptions.

What that a hi-res LCD is nicer than a low-res?

Here's a close-up of the LE's radio display:

Impala's:

Are black pixels on a tan background somehow more pricey than blue pixels?

I'll agree with you, doesn't seem that the Camry uses an objectively better LCD.

Edited March 26, 2006 by toyoguy

[El Scorcho]

I'll agree with you, doesn't seem that the Camry uses an objectively better LCD.

The Impala-style (blue on black) has been, in my experience, easier to read at night.

[Ravenfreak13]

The Impala-style (blue on black) has been, in my experience, easier to read at night.

definetly...The camry screen is equivilent to my saturn sl1 screen...but my breeze has white on black...

[Flybrian]

The problem I have with the style of digital clock used in the Camry is not that its seperate or even that its an LCD, but that it looks like it came from a VCR, cable box, travel clock, or a 50 cent vending machine watch. Plus, its not an easily-legible size either, especially when its positioned that far up on the dash.

[Ravenfreak13]

The problem I have with the style of digital clock used in the Camry is not that its seperate or even that its an LCD, but that it looks like it came from a VCR, cable box, travel clock, or a 50 cent vending machine watch. Plus, its not an easily-legible size either, especially when its positioned that far up on the dash.

How are you supposed to see it if it is sunken back into that hole?

[ToniCipriani]

I'm no design expert, quality in materials easily seen. 

For instance, you do appreciate the low-res green LCD's on Impala's.  A hi-res display would be prefered by typical people.  Guess which one costs more?

No doubt the high-res one will be higher. By no means the Camry's display on the instrument cluster high resolution. As I mentioned, that thing is an alphanumeric display, same ones found on 90's pagers. And how is that high tech?

And how exactly a typical person would be able to tell that they need one in the first place? Are they going to show a GPS map on that puny display? All that display needs to do is to communicate the text DIC message to the driver clearly. And why do you need a high resolution one?

All you are trying to convey is that how cheap the materials are, for bashing purposes. From an engineering point of view, this is actually a good engineering decision. Cost saving while it does the job.

Go do some real homework before you come in, post some random pictures and write .

[sciguy_0504]

How are you supposed to see it if it is sunken back into that hole?

Perhaps because it is lighted?

The photos Variance posted summed up everything. While we can argue all day about the differences between blue-on-black and black-on-grey displays, the interior design, integration and materials (yes, I have been in both) in the Camry are superior to that of the Impala.

[Snate]

the interior design, integration and materials (yes, I have been in both) in the Camry are superior to that of the Impala.

Considering design is subjective and materials...well breaking off a piece of the interior easily with your hand wouldn't exactly back up that claim.

The LCD argument is stupid too. At least Toyota has moved on from the pea green backlit display which looked utterly horrible but the shower clock radio display they use now isn't much better. The ones GM uses (and most other manufacturers for that matter including Lexus) are easier to read night and day and look vastly more upscale.

[Ravenfreak13]

Considering design is subjective and materials...well breaking off a piece of the interior easily with your hand wouldn't exactly back up that claim.

The LCD argument is stupid too.  At least Toyota has moved on from the pea green backlit display which looked utterly horrible but the shower clock radio display they use now isn't much better. The ones GM uses (and most other manufacturers for that matter including Lexus) are easier to read night and day and look vastly more upscale.

Agree

[The O.C.]

Here's what the majority of 2007 Camrys will look like. The pictures of LE trim aren't shown on Toyota's website.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-Camr...sspagenameZWDVW

I like this car! Just saw one (with wheel COVERS no less) yesterday in the parking lot at Ralph's and it looks like a quality piece.....base model or not.

NO....I would never buy an "appliance" like this, but to me, especially with the interior, Toyota has really mastered "bland".....and I mean that in a good way.

Compare this to a rental-grade Impala.....and the Toyota just has way more of an upscale air to it.

[The O.C.]

Too bad the Impala and Malibu are not any better looking.

LOL

Yeah, it's cracking me UP to see everyone (almost everyone) on here rag on the new Camry's styling......all the while ignoring the bastard-of-a-car-design that the Malibu is....

Impala, I will give you, is an attractively-conservative design and is no where near as offensive as the Malibu....

If writing the check, I'd probably take an Impala SS over any Camry. However, if you limit me to a non-SS Impala, I'd take the Camry.

[The O.C.]

'Tis true, but really how hard was it to improve over the '02's? The entire center console was misaligned with the dash.

Don't confuse a design decision with fit-and-finish......

Check out a Malibu or G6 to see a console that is misaligned with the dash.

If you inspect the (old) Camry dash and console closely, the fit is excellent even if it wasn't designed to "flow" into the dash (a la Mazda6 for example.)

[The O.C.]

If Toyota sold vehicles like this they'd be out of business

no upholstery on doors

nice choice in fabrics.

who supplies these mismatched plastics Rubbermaid?

I’ve owed 1980’s toys w/better display readouts

gauges fitting of a 1990’s car

my vision's fine, maybe some here will find it beneficial to pay a visit to the local optometrist

This is an EXACT example of how GM's interior styling has just barely caught up with the better imports, only to now be eclipsed by cars such as the new Camry.

AND.....as the pics show.....GM's actual execution (aside from overall styling of the interior) is still inferior.....

[The O.C.]

That is what I see problem with the GM lineup.  It looks like they were designing a great car, but then they released it half-baked.  As though the design team pulled the plug 77.8% into it.

I agree WHOLE-heartedly....!

A well-said explanation of why GM continues to struggle to gain acceptance of its products.

[The O.C.]

Nice uneven placement of wheel controls, Toyota.

What's even remotely uneven about the steering-wheel controls?

Oh yeah....your GM kool-aid must be blurring your vision.....

[The O.C.]

Well, why don't you tell us what you DID do to the Lucrne dash, not what you think you COULD HAVE done.  Northie actually did it and has evidence...no childish comeback from him

I've pulled the I/P trim piece on the edge of the gauge-cluster-hood off on EVERY Equinox, Torrent, or VUE I've sat in at the auto show....JUST to see if it's designed that way....and it is....

I don't consider myself a vandal because that same trim piece snaps back into placde just as easily as it came off....

[The O.C.]

The cluster on the Impala SS has alot more jazz...

See.....to me, the SS gauges don't look "jazzy".....

....they look cartoonish.....

[The O.C.]

I don't know and I betting you don't, either. Stop with the assumptions.

Here's a close-up of the LE's radio display:

Impala's:

Are black pixels on a tan background somehow more pricey than blue pixels?

In fact, the Impala's display looks more advanced to me.

Maybe different strokes for different folks....

But to me, the whole presentation and execution of the Camry radio controls, display, and background look way more stylish and upscale.

I will admit that the Impala's (and Lucerne's) is GM's finest effort to date and pretty nice....

....but it once again points to my comments of how GM catches up for a second only to be eclipsed once again.....

[Flybrian]

What's even remotely uneven about the steering-wheel controls?

Oh yeah....your GM kool-aid must be blurring your vision.....

They exist on only one side of the steering wheel. It looks asymmetrical and odd to my eyes. Yes, the Impala does it, too; doesn't make it acceptable.

As far as the '02 Camry, the entire console is misaligned with the center stack. I'm not talking about 'flow' or 'quality', just basic alignment. For the very final time...

Compare the wood console above the gearshift to the lower wood on the dashboard's climate controls. The entire center console is justified to the left. This isn't a trick of photography either; I've been in several of this generation of Camry and it is actually misaligned. It just looks like $h! pure and simply, low-gloss silky textures or not.

[toyoguy]

All you are trying to convey is that how cheap the materials are, for bashing purposes.

No, all I did was convey that the materials in the Camry are excellent in its class.

From an engineering point of view, this is actually a good engineering decision. Cost saving while it does the job.

Problem is cost saving elsewhere inside really doesn't do the job, that might explain why most GM volume cars aren't selling.

Go do some real homework before you come in, post some random pictures and write .

I have plenty of HW to do, you know stuff that actually gets graded.

Go race a Camry.

[Flybrian]

Go race a Camry.

I would, but its a bit chilly to ride my bike.

[Petra]

I will admit that the Impala's (and Lucerne's) is GM's finest effort to date and pretty nice....

....but it once again points to my comments of how GM catches up for a second only to be eclipsed once again.....

Ditto. It seems to me like GM designs their interiors based on the current-generation interiors of their competitors. Then the competitors come out with their next-gen. model, and GM is 5 years behind the times, again.

What GM needs to do, instead of benchmarking the interiors of current competitors, is round up their interior designers, force them to study the interiors of the competing models at length, then ask them, "If you were working for <insert competitor here>, how would you improve this?"

Another thing: All this talk about who has the prettiest gauges and LED readouts is not getting anybody anywhere. Everybody has their own idea of what looks good, and you're not going to change anybody's mind by continuing to argue over it with them. Just agree to dissagree, or something.

[Variance]

Problem is cost saving elsewhere inside really doesn't do the job, that might explain why most GM volume cars aren't selling.

Aren't selling? The Cobalt, Malibu, Monte Carlo, G6 and Grand Prix as of the end of February of this year all saw sales increases over the same time last year. The Impala only saw a 2.2% decline.

Toyoguy, you really need to do you fact-checking on GM better.

[Snate]

I have plenty of HW to do, you know stuff that actually gets graded.

Go race a Camry.

Obviously not since you have what...20+ posts in this thread defending the Camry...or more specifically saying the Camry interior is better than <insert any GM car here>

[gmwsag]

Oooohh...harsh to Toyota.

Well, considering this is a GM enthusiast website, I won't complain....much.

Compare this to the 2006 Impala base model.

Not in performance.

Not in size.

Not in price.

But in good looks.

Sure the Impala looks nice, but base interiors (as I've seen and sat in) have horribly hard cloth and cheap plastic features and is nowhere near worth as much money as GM is charging. Having many experiences in base Toyota's, I can say that I'm much impressed with Toyota.

Go figure.

Talk all you want.

This thing is going to eat up sales.

[Ravenfreak13]

Oi vey...

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Passed by a black XLE I-4 and red CE yesterday, at $26,000 and $20,000 respectively-and the XLE had cloth seating still! What was up with that? The Camry's were attractive, they looked like they lost the big-car exterior style the 2002-06 models had, another in the popular camp of the "Pleasantly Bland" school of exterior styling and design. Legroom in back looked plentiful, didn't get to go into the Camry's (I did that with an impressive cool grey Yaris sedan later, though not being fully loaded to the gills and wearing wheel covers, its $15,000 pricetag was at least $2,000 overpriced-THIS is the car Aveo has to beat, and the 2007 model from pictures at least loses big time in looks).

[Snate]

Compare this to the 2006 Impala base model.

Not in performance.

Not in size.

Not in price.

Really? I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

The base Impala has 50 more hp, more interior room, and both are within 1K of eachother pricewise.

Sure the Impala looks nice, but base interiors (as I've seen and sat in) have horribly hard cloth and cheap plastic features and is nowhere near worth as much money as GM is charging. Having many experiences in base Toyota's, I can say that I'm much impressed with Toyota.

Uh...well I sat in the interiors of the new Yaris and FJ at the auto show...and it wasn't pretty. The base interior of the last Camry wasn't anything to write home about either.