TCC: Faceoff: Lexus IS350 Vs. BMW 330i

[Variance]

Faceoff: Lexus IS350 Vs. BMW 330i

Horsepower isn’t always the only thing.

by Conor Twomey (2006-03-20)

Last year was a bumper year for Lexus, having sold 303,000 vehicles in theU.S. and beating BMW's 266,200 units into second place in the luxury vehicle charts. But before you go feeling sorry for the BMW, consider this: BMW sold almost as many 3-Series models in Europe last year (229,932 units, despite a March '05 introduction) as its entire U.S. sales volume and found a total of 644,000 happy European customers in total, excluding MINI. And do you know how many vehicles Lexus sold in Europe in 2005? A grand total of 28,777, or about 4.5 percent of BMW's sales.

In an attempt to rectify this situation, Lexus has designed the new IS as much with Europe in mind as North America, which is why there's a manual 2.5-liter V-6, a 2.2-liter turbodiesel (the first ever diesel Lexus, in fact) and paddle shifters on the range-topping version, as well as the promise of sportier handling and better performance than ever before.

To see how successful they've been, we got our hands on a brand new Lexus IS350 to put it up against its closest Munich rival: a BMW 330i. And to complete the test, I've volunteered my services as the resident "picky European." I even skipped my morning shower especially for the occasion (like I needed an excuse).

Looking important

The styling of many recent BMWs have caused quite a ruckus in the automotive world and while BMW stands firmly and officially behind its chief designer, Chris Bangle, it has simultaneously diluted his 7-Series design and wheeled out a new 3-Series that's only got the bare minimum of Bangle influence. I, personally, rather like the sculpted surfacing and the athletic stance of the new 3-Series, and I also find the detailing around the front lights and grille both striking and appealing. The rear end, however, is a disorganized affair, ruined by those big, clunky taillamps and unresolved lines running amok across its busy butt. The 3 is also very sensitive to wheel size and color, looking much better in dark colors with 18-inch rims, which accentuate its bulging metalwork and make it look more sinister. The current 3-Series probably won't go down as a design milestone (as almost every previous 3-Series has) but that doesn't stop it being an imposing and impressive machine from most angles, nonetheless.

Lexus' designers have eschewed trendy "flame surfacing" in favor of clean, crisp metalwork, thereby dodging the kind of backlash BMW has endured, but that didn't stop them peeking at the 3-Series for inspiration. The shape of the hood; relationship between grille, lights, and fenders; even the kink in the rear quarter-light all have BMW undertones, though melded inoffensively into the IS' rather ambiguous overall shape. The IS does have a strong stance and broad shoulders, however, and the standard 17-inch wheels also fill out the wheel wells better than the BMW's, but compared to the first IS, which still looks good to this day, the new car's styling isn't going to have many heads turning for a second glance. Lexus should have modeled the IS after the more imposing GS and worried less about what BMW was up to, I think. Case in point, look at the back of the IS: Free from BMW influence, the rear end is taught, aggressive, and so perky you want to wrap it in spandex and make it do lunges. More originality from Lexus's stylists, please, because when left to their own devices they clearly possess the skills.

Internal conflict

Inside, things improve for both cars. The BMW's cabin might be a bombardment of black plastic, but it's the well-made, high-quality stuff that's a nice to touch and keeps unwanted reflections, smudges, and scratches to a minimum. The cabin is also the epitome of ergonomic simplicity with buttons that are simple to find and satisfying to use, which only serves to remind us of the tragedy of iDrive (it only rears its ugly head if your 330i is ordered with satellite navigation).

The Lexus is much less oppressive thanks to the lighter hues, a greater variety of materials, and a more inviting overall design, though there's a disappointing number of Toyota bits dotted about the place and the silver-painted plastic on the center console looks cheap in such a car. Our Lexus was equipped with optional touch-screen navigation, so many of the ventilation and audio controls were split between solid dashboard buttons and virtual on-screen buttons, making basic operations unnecessarily complex and awkward. What is the general objection to dashboard buttons in luxury cars these days, I wonder?

I had expected the Lexus to trounce the snug BMW in terms of interior space but, surprisingly, the IS' interior dimensions are smaller than the BMW's in most respects despite it being a longer car overall. It does have a bigger trunk, but that's little consolation to the cramped rear passengers, now is it?

Specification-wise, the two cars pretty much match one another in terms of equipment and basic features, although there are four important areas where the Lexus really punished the BMW: Firstly, it has leather seats, which would cost $1450 extra in the euphemistically trimmed "leatherette" 330i, and secondly it comes with a six-speed paddle-shift automatic as standard, which is another sizeable $1275 option on the BMW.

Also bear in mind that the Lexus costs $1200 less than the BMW to begin with and you begin to see just how much showroom appeal Lexus has built into the IS350. The Lexus IS350 isn't even available with a manual gearbox, which is a bummer for any European worth his speedo-wearing salt but not really an issue for most Americans, and the BMW does fight back by offering expensive swiveling xenon headlamps, even if they do vibrate annoyingly and really don't work very well. Finally, there's the issue of performance, which is where the Lexus, quite literally, streaks ahead of the Bimmer.

Power player

With an extra half liter of capacity and a whopping 50 more horsepower and 57 extra pound-feet of torque, the IS is a whole second faster than the BMW to 60 mph from a rest (5.3 seconds versus 6.3) and maintains that second advantage all the way to the quarter mile (very low 14s versus very high 14s). In reality the Lexus feels even faster than the numbers suggest, surging ahead of the BMW in any gear at any speed, while those paddle shifters are programmed to operate responsively and smoothly, further enhancing the sensation of speed and looking rather cool into the bargain.

The 330i can't compete with the IS 350's eye-widening pace or its flashy paddle shifters, although its automatic transmission is actually more responsive and sporty than the Lexus', despite making do with a lever-operated manual mode. Both cars have electronically limited top speeds - 142 mph for the IS350 and 130 for the 330i unless it's fitted with the sport pack, in which case it can run to 149 mph. And it's not like the Lexus punishes you at the pumps, either. All kinds of valve timing and lean burning is used to give the Lexus almost identical gas mileage to the less powerful BMW.

However, if you delve deeper than the Lexus' impressive on-paper figures, you'll find there's only one true driver's car in this comparison and that's the BMW 330i. At low speeds or in a straight line, the Lexus feels like it could be amusing but wind things up a notch and it becomes clear that the focus is on grip and safety whereas the 3-Series is all about fun and unflappability. The BMW's steering, though not the info-fest I expected, is still sharp and responsive compared to the Lexus' mute and stodgy helm, while throttle response and brake feel are also more intuitive in the BMW than those of the Lexus. The BMW even rides more comfortably than the Lexus, despite being more firmly sprung, though the Lexus seems to be a quieter cruiser.

Switch off the BMW's stability control and the BMW will hang its rear end out all day long, a consequence of its carefully honed balance and razor-sharp controls, although the 330i isn't fitted with a limited-slip rear differential and would possibly be even more fun thus equipped. The Lexus doesn't even have a stability control switch and if you try to get fresh with the IS' spandex-clad rear end it will slap you hard and intrusively on the wrist. The VSC system can be overridden if you know the right combination of pedal prods (I kid you not) and when you do manage to switch the system off, the Lexus shows signs of possessing a balanced chassis, hinting that there might be some potential in the IS' platform after all. To unleash the beast within, though, Lexus would first have to rework the suspension and improve the steering tuning, while also install a "VSC off" button for those of driver that learned how to drive before computers took over 95 percent of the task.

Danke, und guten nacht

As it stands today, though, the 3-Series trounces the Lexus in terms of driving satisfaction. The two cars are in different dynamic leagues and that, right there, is the reason that Lexus sells so few cars in Europe. The IS is an extremely well presented and polished product but that's not the same thing as being a great car. I have no doubt that Lexus will sell every car they can build because a fine appliance like the IS350 is exactly what many people want to meet their transportation needs. But for those folks who sometime go for a drive when they really have no place to go, the BMW 330i is the easy choice. It's infinitely more fun than the Lexus and while it might seem like poor value compared to the faster, better equipped Lexus, ask yourself this: Who ever went on vacation to save money? Not everything in life can be quantified in dollars and cents. If pleasure is your measure of value, then the BMW 330i is a steal.

2006 BMW 330i

Base price: $36,660

Engine: 3.0-liter in-line six, 255 hp/220 lb-ft

Transmission: Six-speed automatic, RWD (as tested)

Fuel economy (EPA city/hwy): 21/29 mpg

Wheelbase: 108.7 in

Length x width x height: 178.2 x 71.5 x 55.9 in

Weight: 3417 lb

Safety equipment: Front, side, and curtain airbags; anti-lock brakes; stability and traction control

Major standard equipment: Dual-zone climate control; adaptive headlamps; rain-sensing wipers; power front seats; 17-inch alloy wheels

Warranty: Four years/50,000 miles

2006 Lexus IS350

Base price: $35,440

Engine: 3.5-liter V-6, 306 hp/277 lb-ft

Transmission: Six-speed automatic with paddle shifters, rear-wheel drive

Fuel economy (EPA city/hwy): 21/28 mpg

Wheelbase: 107.5 in

Length x width x height: 180.1 x 70.9 x 56.1 in

Weight: 3527 lb

Safety equipment: Front, side, and curtain airbags; knee airbag; anti-lock brakes, stability, and traction control

Major standard equipment: Dual-zone climate control; ten-way power front seats; six-CD changer; leather trim; 17-inch alloy wheels

Warranty: Four years/50,000 miles

Link: http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehicle_Re...184.A10149.html

Edited March 21, 2006 by Variance

[VenSeattle]

The last paragraph is an absolute jewel.

[regfootball]

The last paragraph is an absolute jewel.

I Know! It just makes you smile. Lexus tried so hard too........honestly, Toyo has pulled out almost all stops with all the new Lexus cars and I am just rolling, because BMW just puts out these cars effortlessly and they remain so pure. The Lexus is really an engineering solution. Engineers merely solve a problem but have no interest in adding a human component to the solution. The Lexus might have fantastic numbers or tech specs, but the Lexus almost exists in its own world, without the driver. The BMW exists FOR the driver.

Toyota is so based on engineering and 'logic' and prblem solving, their process and business culture must not allow for emotional things to enter into any of their cars. When it comes down to it, Toyota would rather care about trimming 3 days out of average production time to make a widget....BMW's company vision is to produce cars drivers enjoy. Toyota is simply a manufacturing company. Their goals are more about process. BMW's its about the cars and the drivers.

Edited March 21, 2006 by regfootball

[Flybrian]

Honestly? The IS' design is sullied by those ridiculously oversized RX300 mirrors. Seeing it on the road in person is worse.

[MyerShift]

And that kiddies is why real people don't want Japanese cars.

[Intrepidation]

I believe in every shootout these two cars have been in so far the BMW wins. Jusr goes to show that they're not as overrated as some people think. If driving is your thing, the BMW wins easy. It also shows that TCC does good reviews

I like the IS's overall design inside and out better than the 3-Series, but if I were to buy one of the two I'd probably go for the Bimmer. Toyota needs to learn how to build a driver's car before Europe or any car enthusiast will take them seriously.

[Variance]

And that kiddies is why real people don't want Japanese cars.

A bit of an odd comment...

I saw an IS350 on the highway today and it looked pretty nice (better than the Bimmer). If it were my money between these two, I'd have the Lexus.

[Clownzilla]

A bit of an odd comment...

I saw an IS350 on the highway today and it looked pretty nice (better than the Bimmer). If it were my money between these two, I'd have the Lexus.

I don't like the style of either of them. The best BMW (and the most joyful) I have seen was my ex-girlfriends (back in college) 1989 bright red BMW 318i. I LOVED the way it looked and drove. Yeah, I warned her of the CRAZY repair costs, but she didn't care (as a lot of BMW buyers). I think BMW is starting to forget what fun styling is. I also think that BMW is forgeting the Driving Machine portion of their slogan. I don't want all of this tech crap! The 1989 318i was a CAR, not much to it. It was solid and fun though!

[Newbiewar]

I Know!  It just makes you smile.  Lexus tried so hard too........honestly, Toyo has pulled out almost all stops with all the new Lexus cars and I am just rolling, because BMW just puts out these cars effortlessly and they remain so pure.  The Lexus is really an engineering solution.  Engineers merely solve a problem but have no interest in adding a human component to the solution.  The Lexus might have fantastic numbers or tech specs, but the Lexus almost exists in its own world, without the driver.  The BMW exists FOR the driver.

Toyota is so based on engineering and 'logic' and prblem solving, their process and business culture must not allow for emotional things to enter into any of their cars.  When it comes down to it, Toyota would rather care about trimming 3 days out of average production time to make a widget....BMW's company vision is to produce cars drivers enjoy.  Toyota is simply a manufacturing company.  Their goals are more about process.  BMW's its about the cars and the drivers.

the other day i asked my co worker which vehicle he liked better, his 330 or his GS? not quite sure what the number is on the GS...

but he kinda thought about it, and said, well the lexus is really smooth, but i like driving the BMW better... his lease is up in a month or two, and he says hes probably going to get the 5series bmw... instead of another lexus

[MyerShift]

I was talking about the dynamics of the BMW.

I hate the styling of both.

I'd take a front drive Audi A4 pre 2005.5 over a rear-drive 3-Series because...

It's better looking.

[fuel_sipping]

I've driven an IS350 and have driven it at WOT. It is a rush indeed. My only regret about it was that I couldnt do that in a lot while laying down some rubber. If there was an "VSC off" button, that would be immaculate. I remember saying to my brother who was riding along, "Lets go do some dounuts in that parking lot... (heh, thinkin about Lexus idealology) nevermind, the car wouldnt let me."

Really the car is nice and the interior is refined looking with so many options. Its just a shame because all of that seems to be built for something special... but what.. well... hmmm... Point A to Point B driving it seems. The car, despite its highs, is held too far back by itself. IMHO, that is its only flaw.

[pow]

I've driven an IS350 and have driven it at WOT. It is a rush indeed. My only regret about it was that I couldnt do that in a lot while laying down some rubber. If there was an "VSC off" button, that would be immaculate. I remember saying to my brother who was riding along, "Lets go do some dounuts in that parking lot... (heh, thinkin about Lexus idealology) nevermind, the car wouldnt let me."

Really the car is nice and the interior is refined looking with so many options. Its just a shame because all of that seems to be built for something special... but what.. well... hmmm... Point A to Point B driving it seems. The car, despite its highs, is held too far back by itself. IMHO, that is its only flaw.

You can turn VSC off. It's easy. Just, uhh...

1. Make sure the car is in Park and the parking brake is disengaged before you start the car.

2. Start the engine.

3. Engage the parking brake.

4. Fully depress the brake pedal and then release.

5. Fully depress the brake pedal and then release.

6. Disengage the parking brake.

7. Fully depress and hold down the brake pedal.

8. Engage the parking brake, then disengage it (while holding down the brake pedal).

9. Engage the parking brake, then disengage it (while holding down the brake pedal).

10. Release the brake pedal.

11. Engage the parking brake.

12. Fully depress the brake pedal and then release.

13. Fully depress the brake pedal and then release.

Once the car is started, you have thirty seconds to complete the process. It must be repeated each time the car is switched off.

Personally, I prefer reaching for a switch everytime I prepare for a bend I like. Then when I'm less attentive, I can turn it back on.

[SoCalCTS]

And besides... Lexus has all the presige of say... Buick.

When was the last time a Lexus impressed anyone?

[siegen]

And besides... Lexus has all the presige of say... Buick.

When was the last time a Lexus impressed anyone?

Lexus, what's that? I thought the "L" stood for Lincoln... And it was Toyota's old-people brand.

[Flybrian]

You can turn VSC off. It's easy. Just, uhh...

1. Make sure the car is in Park and the parking brake is disengaged before you start the car.

2. Start the engine.

3. Engage the parking brake.

4. Fully depress the brake pedal and then release.

5. Fully depress the brake pedal and then release.

6. Disengage the parking brake.

7. Fully depress and hold down the brake pedal.

8. Engage the parking brake, then disengage it (while holding down the brake pedal).

9. Engage the parking brake, then disengage it (while holding down the brake pedal).

10. Release the brake pedal.

11. Engage the parking brake.

12. Fully depress the brake pedal and then release.

13. Fully depress the brake pedal and then release.

Once the car is started, you have thirty seconds to complete the process. It must be repeated each time the car is switched off.

Your forgot R1, L3, L2, L2, X, O, UP, TRIGGER UP, R2, DOWN, LEFT, TRIGGER LEFT, RIGHT, DOWN, R3, TRIANGLE, R2, X, O, O TRIGGER DOWN, SQUARE, SQUARE.

[Bimmer325]

Your forgot R1, L3, L2, L2, X, O, UP, TRIGGER UP, R2, DOWN, LEFT, TRIGGER LEFT, RIGHT, DOWN, R3, TRIANGLE, R2, X, O, O TRIGGER DOWN, SQUARE, SQUARE.

All '07 IS' are equipped with a VDIM-defeat button. Simple, no?

[Bimmer325]

And besides... Lexus has all the presige of say... Buick.

When was the last time a Lexus impressed anyone?

This is such a hollow statement.

Honestly, compare lineups and tell me when the last time Buick as a whole impressed anyone.

[pow]

All '07 IS' are equipped with a VDIM-defeat button.  Simple, no?

That said, Toyota responds to criticism a lot sooner than GM.

[Flybrian]

All '07 IS' are equipped with a VDIM-defeat button.  Simple, no?

I believe he was reffering to the '06s and so was I.

Now, they need to give the IS some non-Dumbo rearviews.

[FAPTurbo]

Your forgot R1, L3, L2, L2, X, O, UP, TRIGGER UP, R2, DOWN, LEFT, TRIGGER LEFT, RIGHT, DOWN, R3, TRIANGLE, R2, X, O, O TRIGGER DOWN, SQUARE, SQUARE.

So does that give the IS turbo mode or God Mode?...

... or does it let you play Contra III with unlimited lives on the Navi system?

[El Scorcho]

So does that give the IS turbo mode or God Mode?...

... or does it let you play Contra III with unlimited lives on the Navi system?

Damn, beat me to it!

[The O.C.]

And besides... Lexus has all the presige of say... Buick.

When was the last time a Lexus impressed anyone?

153905[/snapback]

......maybe you need to take a drive down to the newly-opened Newport Lexus in Newport Beach.

$75M (including the land).....a Tommy Bahama store inside the showroom....an Oakley sunglass store inside the showroom....an italian bistro inside the showroom....and if they get the liquor license finally approved by the city, a wine bar in the showroom. Additionally, there are five fireplaces scattered throughout.

Additionally, full-time valet for anyone that comes on the lot.....complimentary....AND even if you are just a "tire-kicker," when the valets take your car, you get a complimentary CAR WASH.

The highly-respected Dave Wilson is the owner.....and rumor has it that he "wrote a check" for the deal.

BUT....my point is.....I've NEVER seen a Buick dealership that looked like this.....this Lexus store is DRIPPING in prestige.

And their business model is to sell 400 cars per month.....right down the street from Fletcher Jones Mercedes-Benz (largest Benz store in the country) and in the city of Newport Beach (one of the most "prestigious" cities in the country.)

Buick......in comparison? Nah.....

[Flybrian]

$75M (including the land).....a Tommy Bahama store inside the showroom....an Oakley sunglass store inside the showroom....an italian bistro inside the showroom....and if they get the liquor license finally approved by the city, a wine bar in the showroom.  Additionally, there are five fireplaces scattered throughout.

164966[/snapback]

Do they realize they're in SoCal?

[pow]

......maybe you need to take a drive down to the newly-opened Newport Lexus in Newport Beach.

$75M (including the land).....a Tommy Bahama store inside the showroom....an Oakley sunglass store inside the showroom....an italian bistro inside the showroom....and if they get the liquor license finally approved by the city, a wine bar in the showroom.  Additionally, there are five fireplaces scattered throughout.

Additionally, full-time valet for anyone that comes on the lot.....complimentary....AND even if you are just a "tire-kicker," when the valets take your car, you get a complimentary CAR WASH.

164966[/snapback]

What if you're not white?

[VenSeattle]

BUT....my point is.....I've NEVER seen a Buick dealership that looked like this.....this Lexus store is DRIPPING in prestige. 

164966[/snapback]

Check around... the rest of the country has never seen a LEXUS dealership like that either.

[VenSeattle]

Super fancy Lexus dealerships abound all over the place. Step in one.

165314[/snapback]

I've been in several... and have test-driven Lexus too. Thank you.

Lexus of Bellevue is currently building a new dealership from the ground up which I will visit when it's completed. I'm not ignorant to GM competitors...

[Flybrian]

Can you guys relay these "Super Fancy" dealership memos to Lexus of Clearwater, which is currently between a wastewater treatment plant, a bowling alley, and 'Madame Lipstixxx'

[The O.C.]

Can you guys relay these "Super Fancy" dealership memos to Lexus of Clearwater, which is currently between a wastewater treatment plant, a bowling alley, and 'Madame Lipstixxx'

165404[/snapback]

It seemed the BMW dealership I went to one time in Clearwater was in a similar building and location.....

What's with that....?

[Flybrian]

It seemed the BMW dealership I went to one time in Clearwater was in a similar building and location.....

What's with that....?

165873[/snapback]

Ferman BMW has a decent location, just near some strip malls (what dealership isn't?) and I think there may be a lingere shop within, but the area looks nice at least. If you're talking about Bert Smith BMW/VW/Porsche/Subaru, that's because it used to be Bert Smith Oldsmobile and its 'Premier Luxury Showcase' jazz was the former Bert Smith Diesel Center.

[Variance]

Ferman BMW has a decent location, just near some strip malls (what dealership isn't?)...

165917[/snapback]

Ferman? Ferman? It's racist. It's a racist name. Ferman? What is he, a fuhrer? Ferman? German? Herman? German? Sound a little familiar to you? I'm sorry, sir but he probably says "n***er" a lot with a name like that.

[Manasseh33]

A bit of an odd comment...

I saw an IS350 on the highway today and it looked pretty nice (better than the Bimmer). If it were my money between these two, I'd have the Lexus.

110654[/snapback]

Instead of looking at them on the highway or on paper go drive those two and if you have an ounce of soul you will reverse that decision. (though for mundane reliable driving the Lexus is hard to beat) I recently did exactly that before parking a BMW in my garage and there is simply no comparison & no hesitation when deciding which is the better driver once you drive the new BMWs.

And if they, (Lexus) really think that IS350 does 0-60 oor the quarter as quick as the 335i coupe I'd love to race for pink slips: ) Or heck, I'd race em just for fun too.

[Nick]

The 335's are putting down amazing numbers...Hell, they are giving M3's a run for their money in straight line performance (6sp vs 6sp they are almost even). Tuners are also experiencing major gains with a properly set up exhaust and software. Some are even saying with not too much invested it will be beating the new M3 (with the v8 based off of the M5's v10) just because of the potential of the 335 compared to the new M3 (of course, we will find that one out soon enough, but if this new v8 is anything like the v10 then I doubt potential is there without a significant amount invested).

[toyoguy]

The 335's are putting down amazing numbers...Hell, they are giving M3's a run for their money in straight line performance (6sp vs 6sp they are almost even). Tuners are also experiencing major gains with a properly set up exhaust and software. Some are even saying with not too much invested it will be beating the new M3 (with the v8 based off of the M5's v10) just because of the potential of the 335 compared to the new M3 (of course, we will find that one out soon enough, but if this new v8 is anything like the v10 then I doubt potential is there without a significant amount invested).

206955[/snapback]

I like how BMW stepped up the game with the 335i, it's a little expensive and heavy but worth the extra money and weight.

As far as the performance gains go, turbocharged cars easily pick up hp, but Vishnu is looking for easy money (not to mention the owner is an idiot). BMW computer's are known to secretly monitor all sorts of data in order to deny warranty replacements.

Replacing turbos, trannies and engines isn't cheap, and if anything breaks BMW certainly won't cover the cost. I'm suprised BMW didn't seal the ECU like I hear they do in turbocharged Audi's.

Rally built EVO's and STI's / GT-R's, Supra's and Porshe Turbos can cope with the extra power but that doesn't indicate the 335i can also.

[regfootball]

the new 335i is an incredible car, judging by its test numbers.

[Nick]

I like how BMW stepped up the game with the 335i, it's a little expensive and heavy but worth the extra money and weight.

As far as the performance gains go, turbocharged cars easily pick up hp, but Vishnu is looking for easy money (not to mention the owner is an idiot).  BMW computer's are known to secretly monitor all sorts of data in order to deny warranty replacements.

Replacing turbos, trannies and engines isn't cheap, and if anything breaks BMW certainly won't cover the cost.  I'm suprised BMW didn't seal the ECU like I hear they do in turbocharged Audi's.

Rally built EVO's and STI's / GT-R's, Supra's and Porshe Turbos can cope with the extra power but that doesn't indicate the 335i can also.

206963[/snapback]

You're right about Vishnu...I haven't heard many good things about that company...There's quite a bit of talk going around about them over on bimmerforums.

We'll see what happens though. There are plenty of other tuners out there who will start taking charge at this car. I'm sure it won't take long to see more products start popping up and more tuners jumping on the bandwagon...it's already begun.

I'd like to see what Dinan comes up with. They put out decent products, though they are way overpriced...But BMW honors their upgrades without concerns of voiding the warranty (well, supposedly anyway).

[scotthendersonfan]

You're right about Vishnu...I haven't heard many good things about that company...There's quite a bit of talk going around about them over on bimmerforums.

206995[/snapback]

Bad things about Vishnu? You don't have the faintest clue what you're talking about do you?

Secondly, I've been following the posts V has been posting on E90 and Bimmerforums about his 335 coupe and I have yet to read a single negative post on those forums either.

[Nick]

Bad things about Vishnu? You don't have the faintest clue what you're talking about do you?

Secondly, I've been following the posts V has been posting on E90 and Bimmerforums about his 335 coupe and I have yet to read a single negative post on those forums either.

207000[/snapback]

Then you must not have been doing much reading, have you?

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthrea...01&page=1&pp=25

I will give you that the majority of the negativity I found was not on BFc (I was mistaken on where I was reading)...I haven't seen much there...yet. From what I have read though from other sources, most of the negativity is directed at Shiv.

[scotthendersonfan]

Then you must not have been doing much reading, have you?

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthrea...01&page=1&pp=25

I will give you that the majority of the negativity I found was not on BFc (I was mistaken on where I was reading)...I haven't seen much there...yet. From what I have read though from other sources, most of the negativity is directed at Shiv.

207039[/snapback]

So a bunch of whiners who're cluelessly spouting BS is proof? For every thread like that, you can find hundreds of positive one's about Vishnu at nasioc, iwsti, evom (the forum those guys are talking about) etc.