Regal Turbo vs. TSX v6 vs. CC 2.0T

[regfootball]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/10q4/2010_acura_tsx_v6_vs._2011_buick_regal_cxl_turbo_2010_volkswagen_cc_2.0t_r-line-comparison_tests

Before you guess the winner, second, and third, the Acura MSRP was 38k+, the Regal was 35k+, the CC was 32k+.

And just to interject some additional info, there was also a writeup in Dec 2010 Car and Driver for the Sonata turbo. 27K sticker, praised the road manners, and it did 0-60 in 6.2.

CHeck the Regal's performance for yourself and the others and then compare all three to the Sonata turbo.......

[Drew Dowdell]

Uhm, 38k is the target price for the Regal GS and that will include AWD as well.... so given that price, I'd definitely go with the Regal.

..... though Acura's complimentary snow plow package is compelling.

[hyperv6]

This car is set for spirited driving and MPG. It is not the sport model by any means. I would still take it over the Acura anyday.

The VW CC is one sweet car and is one of the few non GM cars I would really consider. For the money it is a really nice car.

Even with the discount I still can warm to the Sonata styling Just too busy. But still better than the Acura's.

I would have likes to see this comparo witht the GS.

[A Horse With No Name]

I think in all honesty the CC won the test fair and square, however, I could find the regal very compelling.

Lots of neat technology and engineering in the Acura, too bad the styling is someones third grade art project gone wrong.

[Z-06]

Good Lord! 3772 lbs.

[smk4565]

Of the 3, I think the Passat is the best looking, and it was the cheapest. I don't care for any 3 of these though, the Sonata Turbo could out perform any of them, and offers many of the same features at a much lower price. At $35k I am surprised they didn't put the MKZ into that mix, but also for $35k, you can get a RWD Genesis 3.8, and RWD will beat any of these cars. But Car and Driver already put a Genesis against a LaCrosse, ES350 and Taurus, and the Genesis beat them all, so I guess they figured it would have beat any of these cars too.

[pow]

The CC is an awesome car. 2.0T and DSG for the win...

[pow]

This doesn't bode well for the 9-5, btw. It's even heavier than the Regal, yet the Turbo4 model uses the same powertrain. Saab needs those BMW engines ASAP.

[regfootball]

Uhm, 38k is the target price for the Regal GS and that will include AWD as well.... so given that price, I'd definitely go with the Regal.

..... though Acura's complimentary snow plow package is compelling.

Yes but the Passat at 32k wins the comparo.

a 38K GS will probably not have NAV or leather i am guessing. And it will be two tons, I don't think it will be much faster than this turbo front drive one.

If one studies the numbers a bit, the quarter mile on the Regal turbo is not far off the others.

The way it sucks gas is what is more disturbing to me.

I know some groups in the world think pork is unclean, on the Regal its just heavy, the pork really ruins the dynamics, power, and gas mileage. Those Opel engineers really love their pork, don't they? (Vue, Regal, .....)

The grille on the Acura can slice the pork.

I'd still buy the Regal. I bet its a lot faster with the stick. If we do actually get it.

I think its a bit sleazy that the v6 Acura at 38k is in this test, too......

It seems to me like if the Regal wee 200 pounds less, had some better combustion efficiency, and a bit of chassis attention, I'd would be in much better shape. Some folks don't mind a heavy feeling car actually. It feels more solid and like its worth closer to what they paid.

Edited October 29, 2010 by regfootball

[regfootball]

This doesn't bode well for the 9-5, btw. It's even heavier than the Regal, yet the Turbo4 model uses the same powertrain. Saab needs those BMW engines ASAP.

There is not much that does bode well for the new 9-5, at the prices they are asking for it.

[regfootball]

Of the 3, I think the Passat is the best looking, and it was the cheapest. I don't care for any 3 of these though, the Sonata Turbo could out perform any of them, and offers many of the same features at a much lower price. At $35k I am surprised they didn't put the MKZ into that mix, but also for $35k, you can get a RWD Genesis 3.8, and RWD will beat any of these cars. But Car and Driver already put a Genesis against a LaCrosse, ES350 and Taurus, and the Genesis beat them all, so I guess they figured it would have beat any of these cars too.

MKZ hybrid FTW! lol

actually the MKZ AWD v6 would be pretty speedy in this bunch. but it's just a tarted up Malibu....oops, i mean Fusion.

Edited October 29, 2010 by regfootball

[ocnblu]

The CC is a fantastic car.

[ZL-1]

This doesn't bode well for the 9-5, btw. It's even heavier than the Regal, yet the Turbo4 model uses the same powertrain. Saab needs those BMW engines ASAP.

The agreement that was announced between SAAB and BMW is for the turbo 1.6L gaoline engines used in the MINI, not anything else.

[frogger]

Though I like it quite a bit, I used to think the CC was a bit overpriced. Obviously not in this company.

Edited October 29, 2010 by frogger

[Robert Hall]

Though I like it quite a bit, I used to think the CC was a bit overpriced. Obviously not in this company.

Read the article last night. For some reason, I thought the CC was closer to or over $40k from previous articles...maybe the one in this article was lightly optioned to come out so cheap. It was an interesting comparison.

[z28luvr01]

Can we please try to get through a single thread about four door cars without mentioning the effing Sonata? Yeah, it's the best car ever, can cure cancer, make Arabs and Israelis go out to dinner together, and improve your sex life, but it still doesn't belong in the same conversation with the CC, TSX, and Regal.

[Robert Hall]

Can we please try to get through a single thread about four door cars without mentioning the effing Sonata? Yeah, it's the best car ever, can cure cancer, make Arabs and Israelis go out to dinner together, and improve your sex life, but it still doesn't belong in the same conversation with the CC, TSX, and Regal.

Agreed...I don't get the fixation some have with the Sonata..it's just another midsize FWD appliance, maybe less bland looking than the big 3 (Camry, Altima, Accord).

[Drew Dowdell]

Can we please try to get through a single thread about four door cars without mentioning the effing Sonata? Yeah, it's the best car ever, can cure cancer, make Arabs and Israelis go out to dinner together, and improve your sex life, but it still doesn't belong in the same conversation with the CC, TSX, and Regal.

CC, TSX, and Regal shoppers are not going to be cross shopping a Sonata. They are someone who wants "more" from their brand.

[Drew Dowdell]

Of the 3, I think the Passat is the best looking, and it was the cheapest. I don't care for any 3 of these though, the Sonata Turbo could out perform any of them, and offers many of the same features at a much lower price. At $35k I am surprised they didn't put the MKZ into that mix, but also for $35k, you can get a RWD Genesis 3.8, and RWD will beat any of these cars. But Car and Driver already put a Genesis against a LaCrosse, ES350 and Taurus, and the Genesis beat them all, so I guess they figured it would have beat any of these cars too.

Beat them at what? Looking like a bloated pig with a Klingon forehead? Or beating them at matching a 1998 Park Ave in interior ambiance. There is more to life than 0-60 and if carving canyons is what you're worried about there are about 100 other cars to look at before the Genesis sedan OR Sonata Turbo.

[Z-06]

The Audi A4, which can also be considered the competitor rings in at 3,715 lbs with 2.0T FWD set up. God these Germans really put some meat in their cars.

I think Regal is 300-350 lb too heavy. That it rings in only 150 lbs less than the much bigger, four cylinder Lacrosse does not bode well.

CC weighs 3,150 lbs despite being similarly sized to the the A4 and Regal.

[frogger]

Would have been interesting to see an Infiniti G25 or G37, RWD or AWD in this comparison

[regfootball]

CC, TSX, and Regal shoppers are not going to be cross shopping a Sonata. They are someone who wants "more" from their brand.

power space style fuel economy warranty. yeah go to other web sites and read comments there are DEFINITELY people cross shopping the higher trim sonatas against other cars.

and if the sonata won't do, the genesis sedan certainly can.

take off those GM blinders again. There are as many non fanbois saying 'why is a Buick attempting to compete with cars like this?'

The Audi A4, which can also be considered the competitor rings in at 3,715 lbs with 2.0T FWD set up. God these Germans really put some meat in their cars.

I think Regal is 300-350 lb too heavy. That it rings in only 150 lbs less than the much bigger, four cylinder Lacrosse does not bode well.

CC weighs 3,150 lbs despite being similarly sized to the the A4 and Regal.

what are A4 prices these days? Is Audi getting greedy?

[Z-06]

what are A4 prices these days? Is Audi getting greedy?

What has weight gotta do with prices? In Motor und Sports magazine Insignia was compared with A4, 3er and C-Classe.

Every German car manufacturer is.

[Robert Hall]

The MKZ should have been in the comparo...and if this comparo were held next year, maybe the Chrysler 200 as well.

I didn't realize the A4 was available in the US in FWD form...a big part of considering an Audi is Quattro, IMO.

[Drew Dowdell]

power space style fuel economy warranty. yeah go to other web sites and read comments there are DEFINITELY people cross shopping the higher trim sonatas against other cars.

and if the sonata won't do, the genesis sedan certainly can.

take off those GM blinders again. There are as many non fanbois saying 'why is a Buick attempting to compete with cars like this?'

The Sonata is ghastly ugly. I've made the point, repeatedly, that for as ugly as the Sonata is, the Optima is good looking.... easily the best looking of all the Asian.... yes, more so than the Mazda 6.

My point behind all of this is that as much as Hyundai wants it, it still doesn't have the cache of VW, Acura, Infiniti or even to a degree Buick. People buy the Hyundai because they have to in order to get the features they want at a price they can afford, not because they're thinking "Lord, won't you buy me a Hyundai Sonata?". Put all these midsizers at the same price with the same equipment and most people will choose everything but the Hyundai.

[frogger]

Would be interesting to see the Regal GS compared to established AWD entry lux vehicles like the A4 Quattro, G25/G37x, 328/335xi. The Regal doesn't do much for me in 220hp form at the prices they are asking.

Hyundai really isn't trying to compete with these 10K+ more expensive vehicles It seems to get mentioned a lot because of its hp numbers combined with relatively low weight and turbo 4 banger, since v6 FWD sedans are all about as exciting to drive as watching paint dry regardless of manufacturer, I think people are hoping the turbo 4 is the answer.

Edited October 29, 2010 by frogger

[hyperv6]

I just don't see the 220 2.0 as a performance car. It is a better car but it is still a car for good performance and good MPG. Kind of like the 1.4 Cruze as it is not a performance car either.

In todays market Turbo does not always mean fast. Often it means small engine making better power and good MPG and that is all.

[smk4565]

My point behind all of this is that as much as Hyundai wants it, it still doesn't have the cache of VW, Acura, Infiniti or even to a degree Buick. People buy the Hyundai because they have to in order to get the features they want at a price they can afford, not because they're thinking "Lord, won't you buy me a Hyundai Sonata?". Put all these midsizers at the same price with the same equipment and most people will choose everything but the Hyundai.

That may be true, but none of them can match the build quality and features for the price that Hyundai gives. The Sonata may not have cache, but it is outselling every midsizer except the Camry and Accord, and it is closing in fast on the Accord.

[Drew Dowdell]

And at the end of the day... it's still a Hyundai.

You don't think VW or Acura can match the build quality of Hyundai? Exactly what have you been smoking and when are you dropping some off at my house?

[regfootball]

The Sonata is ghastly ugly. I've made the point, repeatedly, that for as ugly as the Sonata is, the Optima is good looking.... easily the best looking of all the Asian.... yes, more so than the Mazda 6.

My point behind all of this is that as much as Hyundai wants it, it still doesn't have the cache of VW, Acura, Infiniti or even to a degree Buick. People buy the Hyundai because they have to in order to get the features they want at a price they can afford, not because they're thinking "Lord, won't you buy me a Hyundai Sonata?". Put all these midsizers at the same price with the same equipment and most people will choose everything but the Hyundai.

there are tons of them out there. it's connecting with a lot of buyers.

I just don't see the 220 2.0 as a performance car. It is a better car but it is still a car for good performance and good MPG. Kind of like the 1.4 Cruze as it is not a performance car either.

In todays market Turbo does not always mean fast. Often it means small engine making better power and good MPG and that is all.

but the regal doesn't get great mpg

And at the end of the day... it's still a Hyundai.

You don't think VW or Acura can match the build quality of Hyundai? Exactly what have you been smoking and when are you dropping some off at my house?

sure, its called "2011 Jetta"

[smk4565]

And at the end of the day... it's still a Hyundai.

You don't think VW or Acura can match the build quality of Hyundai? Exactly what have you been smoking and when are you dropping some off at my house?

They have the build quality, but not at the same price. Hyundai can beat Dodge, Chevy, Ford, Mazda, Nissan, and those at the same price point in build quality and features (and warranty).

[hyperv6]

Hate to tell you while they are not horrible Hyundai's build qulity is not the best. My buddy in the dealer will tell you that.

[regfootball]

Hate to tell you while they are not horrible Hyundai's build qulity is not the best. My buddy in the dealer will tell you that.

i still don't trust Hyundai's sonata enough to BUY one, but leasing, no prob. Thrown them the keys back if its a lemon. I doubt there are much in the way of issues with the Genesis. I would buy a current gen Elantra in full confidence because its not too pricey.

[A Horse With No Name]

You don't think VW or Acura can match the build quality of Hyundai? Exactly what have you been smoking and when are you dropping some off at my house?

+1 big time....!

Hate to tell you while they are not horrible Hyundai's build qulity is not the best. My buddy in the dealer will tell you that.

Actually I think GM and Ford are much better....

[hyperv6]

i still don't trust Hyundai's sonata enough to BUY one, but leasing, no prob. Thrown them the keys back if its a lemon. I doubt there are much in the way of issues with the Genesis. I would buy a current gen Elantra in full confidence because its not too pricey.

I picture Hyundai as a good lease car, get it use it and get rid of it before you have to put money in it.

Based on the way many Hyundias have held up un the midwest I really question their resale value. Many Hyuindai' have had brake and rust issues here. Put that with the lower purchase price and the fact many are now in fleet sales the resale on these cars may not be very good in many areas.

My guy at the dealer also said they are far from cheap to repair. Not everything is always covered by the warranty and many customers find out the hard way and are not happy about it.

As he has stated with some of the chronic issued he said they neeed the big warranty.

Note he passed on his discount and bought a Chevy.

The key to Hyundai is they have improved a lot from where they once were. They also have improved the styling over many Asian cars. It is like they better understand America and their styling likes vs the likes of the Cube, Juke and Scion. It may have been the American presents in Korea but I have always felt the Koreans understood America better than Japan.

But the real key to Hyundai is price. They have the key like Walmart. Price rules and make people over look other issues much easier.

I expect Hyundia to increase their quality in time but they will lose the pricing advantage. I think they hope they will by then sell on their own merits vs price alone. The key is will people be forgiving once the issue come about after 4 years.

Ford used to sell for less and give you more but resale was horrible. I found this out on my T bird. You got a lot of car upfront but later there was little resale. My GM cars I have had to pay more for but I always got it back later. Though I fear my GTP GP will take a hit once I sell it even in excellent condition.

The three cars in this story I feel will hold up better longer and will see better resale value. That is as long as none are whored out to fleet sales. I do not see Acura or VW doing this and pray Buick does not do this.

Edited October 30, 2010 by hyperv6

[ocnblu]

There are still holes to be found in Hyundai's overall presentation. They're incomplete. They've still got a ways to go.

[regfootball]

Hyundai's price sensitive approach is ripe for the times.

If their ascendency (sp) had been in 2004, it may not have been as relevant.

Regardless of that, what they have achieved is credible, and no doubt their relentless onslaught to gain share cannot be dismissed.

Now is when I remind everyone of when Mitsubishi had a huge push and business increase on our soil........."a car for everyone"

[Drew Dowdell]

Hyundai's price sensitive approach is ripe for the times.

If their ascendency (sp) had been in 2004, it may not have been as relevant.

Regardless of that, what they have achieved is credible, and no doubt their relentless onslaught to gain share cannot be dismissed.

Now is when I remind everyone of when Mitsubishi had a huge push and business increase on our soil........."a car for everyone"

The difference here may be the country of origin. While Korea does care about "honour", they don't get suicidal over it like the Japanese do...... therefore I think it's unlikely we'd see a "deny and deflect" campaign the likes that Toyota and Mitsubishi put on if there were to be a large flaw with one of the Hyundais.

[hyperv6]

The difference here may be the country of origin. While Korea does care about "honour", they don't get suicidal over it like the Japanese do...... therefore I think it's unlikely we'd see a "deny and deflect" campaign the likes that Toyota and Mitsubishi put on if there were to be a large flaw with one of the Hyundais.

Hyundai also has a lot of experience with difficult unions. The UAW here is nothing compared to the near militant labor unions in Korea.

The first thing everyone has to remember with Korea. They may be Asian but there are not Japanese nor Chinese. They have a different outlook and mind set from the other nations there and too often people tend to lump them all together. They are smart and adapt fast.

[Drew Dowdell]

The Sonata for U.S. consumption is built in the U.S.

[hyperv6]

The Sonata for U.S. consumption is built in the U.S.

As well as more of their cars will be. Also they use a lot of imput from design and marketing from Americans.

To turn a Company around as they have it takes some smart choices and few mistakes. They have been good so far so lets see if they can close the deal.

[Carguy]

They should have kept the 260HP & 260FT,LB of Torque from the 2.0L DI Turbo I4 for the Regal! The 220HP version seems to be no more efficient then the more powerful version so why change it?

[ocnblu]

Carguy, I think transverse installations of the 2.0L Turbo with automatic trans were all 220 hp... HHR SS. If the Riggle Turbo were available with a manual transmission, maybe it could have 260 hp.

[Z-06]

Carguy, I think transverse installations of the 2.0L Turbo with automatic trans were all 220 hp... HHR SS. If the Riggle Turbo were available with a manual transmission, maybe it could have 260 hp.

There is going to be. Expect it to be available by December.

[hyperv6]

Carguy, I think transverse installations of the 2.0L Turbo with automatic trans were all 220 hp... HHR SS. If the Riggle Turbo were available with a manual transmission, maybe it could have 260 hp.

The HHR SS 4 speed will runs 235 HP in first and second gear and 250 HP in 3rd and 4th in factory tune. the GM Performance Turbo upgrade kit has 290 HP and 315 FT LB in all 4 gears and it keeps the factory warraty. I have yet to see an SS lose a Auto tranny yet. The 5 speeds have been know to kick a clutch but that could be due to the driver.

If they wanted to the could have put the power up they could have with the available trannys and engine management systems. If they has moved the power up it would move into the GS place.

Note too all the people I know with the 2.0 Turbo easily get better than listed MPG with their cars. No matter if it is a Solstice, Sky, HHR or Cobalt. We all seem to do better than the posted numbers with out even trying. The Turbo upgrade with more power gets a confirmed 1-2 MPG more. Bill Duncan confirmed it was a unintended bonus that they came up with when they made the kit.

Edited November 1, 2010 by hyperv6

[regfootball]

so its curious why the regal gets a pansy turbo motor

[frogger]

Well with the GS specs out now and it still being FWD and having 255hp/295lb ft, I'm feeling like it should be priced like what the 220hp model is.

Seems like a lot of cash for a FWD car... TSX or Regal or otherwise. I'd much rather have a RWD or AWD car with a few less options for the same price.

Edited November 4, 2010 by frogger

[Drew Dowdell]

Hyperstrut takes a few of the objections against FWD off the table.... I'll let you know when I drive one ;-)