Check this out: 1981 Park Avenue Diesel

[mustang84]

Cleanest, newest looking diesel Buick I have ever seen. $14800 with only 9486 miles.

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[VenSeattle]

It's a beautiful car... if only it weren't the diesel:

Automotive News / April 11, 2005

When an automaker develops an engine with huge flaws, the consequences can be severe. Many consumers still think poorly of diesel techology because engines designed by General Motors from 1978 to 1985 clattered and belched smoke.

More stringent durability testing and improved design technology now make such instances rare.

But that didn't stop Staff Reporter Richard Truett from putting together his eight picks for the poorest car engines of the last 50 years.

1. GM's diesels - Responding to the fuel crisis of the late 1970s, GM rolled out a 5.7-liter diesel engine designed by Oldsmobile. The V-8, produced from 1978 to 1985, was based on a gasoline engine. That was a terrible miscalculation.

The block, though beefed up, could not stand the stress and strain of the high-compression diesel pistons. Cylinder-head bolts broke. Gaskets blew. Crankshafts failed. Engines overheated.

The fuel system may have been the source of many of the problems. A poorly designed fuel pump, combined with a poor filtration system, let water into the fuel and left many diesel-powered cars limping and spewing smoke. Or worse, they croaked - a big embarrassment for GM. Disgusted owners yanked out the diesels and replaced them with gasoline engines.

GM had two other diesel engines, a 4.3-liter V-8 and 4.3-liter V-6. Neither fared much better than the 5.7-liter V-8. By 1985, GM's engineers had solved most of the problems. The 5.7-liter diesel was reasonably reliable, and it delivered fuel economy of about 30 mpg in GM's large cars. But by then the damage had been done.

Not only were GM's diesels out of production, but sales of diesel-powered cars from every automaker, especially Mercedes-Benz, which built the best diesels in the world, also were in major decline. It would be 20 years before another automaker, Chrysler, would launch a diesel engine in a small vehicle. The Jeep Liberty diesel went on sale in January.

[caddycruiser]

I've read both good and bad things about the old GM diesels, but regardless, that is one heck of a stunning car!

Not exactly good looking from a design perspective, but the condition is A+++

[Robert Hall]

Sweet...always nice to see an '80s B- or C- in pristine condition...I've always liked that style Buick, esp. the grille and taillight treatment. I remember riding in one similar to that (not a diesel) when they were new (an aunt and uncle had one).

[bobo]

Interesting that someone would store a diesel Buick for 25 years, but why on earth would someone do that? That diesel engine is wretched. Way back when, my parents' '79 Seville went through two of them, and then they put in a rebuilt gasoline Oldsmobile 350 engine in it. This Buick would make a nice project car.

Edited March 19, 2006 by bobo

[Mike The Canadian]

oh man...look at that interior....i'd rather have that interior over some of the interiors in cars today...

[Robert Hall]

Interesting that someone would store a diesel Buick for 25 years, but why on earth would someone do that?  That diesel engine is wretched.  Way back when, my parents' '79 Seville went through two of them, and then they put in a rebuilt Oldsmobile 350 engine in it.  This Buick would make a nice project car.

It was probably an elderly driver that drove it very little and recently passed away...anytime I see a car like this on ebay, I assume that is the most likely scenario..

Edited March 19, 2006 by moltar

[Robert Hall]

oh man...look at that interior....i'd rather have that interior over some of the interiors in cars today...

Agreed..it has COLOR .,texture, lots of faux wood..a much more pleasant place to spend time than the depressing shades-of-gray interiors far too many cars (not only GM) have today...

[Paolino]

God that's a beautiful car. I would LOVE to own something like that!

[regfootball]

reminds me of our 81 Electra diesel. AWESOME car. 30+ mpg, ran all day. UNTIL the inevitable. My dad was a diesel implement mechanic so he had a love for diesels, but for all the GM engines he rebuilt (there were many ), he had someone else fix ours when it went KER-POP. He always wanted a Mercedes diesel or a small VW diesel.

It was likely the best car he's owned aside from the KER-POP and the Seville he's got now. The Electra was not as TACO inside as the PA.....the seats were attractive with grippy cloth and lacked the pillowy look of the barcaloungers in the Park Avenue.

Honestly, one of the niches that could make GM a leader again is to revive the big powerful v8 RWD diesel sedan. Think S-Class at a middle class price. The press would rehash old history but honestly, GM would have a lot of fans who would love a nationwide cruiser that would sip fuel at 80+ mph all day. Give it a 10/100 powertrain warranty to back it up. And this is one area where Buick could recarve a niche in the US. Imagine an S-class sized multi-displacement diesel large challenger that can exceed 35 mpg on a trip?

there was a sense of 'event' riding in the Electra/Park Avenue and Ninety Eight of this body style and era.....likewise with the concurrent Riv/Eldo/Toro triplets of this year. This was GM at the top of its game in terms of luxury cars. NO ONE wanted a Ford or Chrysler. These cars were what folks aspired to.

(Barbara Streisand singing 'Memories' in the background.......)

Man, I SOOOO want that car.......that and my 77 Century/Regal

Edited March 19, 2006 by regfootball

[scharmer05]

my uncle has one just like that. it was his moms until she died. Brown with a light brown vinyl top but its a diesel and i think it has about 35000 on it

[DBeaSSt]

Wow, that car is beautiful. But did I read the price right? $15,000???????

Could be an interesting project to convert to 100% Biodiesel. Upgrading the fuel system would be necessary anyway.

[Paolino]

Does anyone know how long this car is? And what the specs are of the engine? (like hp and torque)

[Paolino]

That is a positively gorgeous Park Ave! Not big on the fact that it's a diesel, but it is nice otherwise. That interior looks so inviting. The seats just seem to say "Come on in". Like having a personal limousine. This is one of the cars that expressed the statement "I've arrived" back in the day. A very classy beauty inside & out. GM needs to start making vehicles like this again.

Paulie, to answer your question regarding specs:

Dimensions

Length-220.9"

Width-74.7"

Height-55.6"

Mechanical specs (1981 Olds 350 diesel)

Horsepower-125hp@3600rpm

Torque-225ft.lbs@1600rpm

Bore X Stroke-4.057" X 3.385"

Compression Ratio-22.5:1

Oil Pressure-40psi@1500rpm

VIN code-N

Thanks GM1! Now, that's the kinda car I'd like to drive--large, and in charge

[mrmonte]

Sweet car,great for a Buick 350 or 455 conversion . I wish we could buy cars styled just like that new. Those were the days when GM still had it .

[Flybrian]

Absolutely beautiful, Diesel or no.

[mustang84]

I was looking around on Ebay a lot yesterday at the big C and B bodies of the late 70s and early 80s and it brought back vague memories of me riding around in GM's when I was little where there was so much luxury inside. You went from almost excess padding and bright colors in the 80s to gray plastic and ill-fitting, monotone interiors in the 90s....what happened, GM?

Edited March 19, 2006 by mustang84

[Robert Hall]

I'm getting 'Big 80s' flashbacks to high school looking at these interior pics..

I rode around in and drove occasionally a lot of cars like that back in the day (high school from '84-88)...one friend had an '84 Parisienne, my g/f drove her dad's '85 Caprice wagon, another friend had an '81 Olds 88 diesel, another had a '81 Fleetwood Brougham diesel, another had a '76 Electra 225 coupe, another an '80 Riviera...good stuff..

[trinacriabob]

Cleanest, newest looking diesel Buick I have ever seen.  $14800 with only 9486 miles.

Hot damn. That is gorgeous. They even got the right number of ventiports! And look, its grille, is a mini-replica of the Parthenon!

We can all dog the mechanical problems of the 80's day in and day out, and with good cause, but there is no arguing that opulent interiors probably were at their peak between 80 and 87. Not only that, it was nice to see the color choices inside - that tasteful shade of green, burgundy and royal blue. Obviously, I appreciate what's new, but if you've ever piloted something with an interior like that, it was extremely comfortable and serene...you'd almost want to sleep in your garage! Having been the owner of an 84 Supreme in Brougham form, all I can say is that I loved the tufted/pleated interior and would drive it from Nor Cal to Portland to see my parents without getting tired.

That being said, I know 1 person who purchased a GM diesel. It was an 81 or 82 Century Limited and this man was constantly cursing that car. Like the posted stats indicate, the not "from scratch" design couldn't handle the jump in compression from 8:1+/- to 22.5:1.

Sidebar:

Mustang, where is this car? I'm (sort of ) digging the house in the background. I think it's a stock design where you can almost read the floor plan from the outside. It screams Atlanta suburb except that the color of brick is NEVER used in the Southeast, so I say upper Midwest. I think the corner quoins and dressed up oval window are a bit much, but I'll take it! More so than the car!

[balthazar]

>>"The block, though beefed up, could not stand the stress and strain of the high-compression diesel pistons. Cylinder-head bolts broke. Gaskets blew. Crankshafts failed. Engines overheated. "<<

The piece says the block 'couldn't handle the stress' then proceeds to call out non-block problem areas. I think that's called slander.

Fact is, the diesel 350 blocks are strong as holy hell and make excellent candidates for a performance gas build. How's 500 HP sound?

[mustang84]

Sidebar:

Mustang, where is this car?  I'm (sort of ) digging the house in the background.  I think it's a stock design where you can almost read the floor plan from the outside.  It screams Atlanta suburb except that the color of brick is NEVER used in the Southeast, so I say upper Midwest.  I think the corner quoins and dressed up oval window are a bit much, but I'll take it!  More so than the car!

According to the Ebay site, it looks like it's in Saddle River, NJ.

[Robert Hall]

Sidebar:

Mustang, where is this car?  I'm (sort of ) digging the house in the background.  I think it's a stock design where you can almost read the floor plan from the outside.  It screams Atlanta suburb except that the color of brick is NEVER used in the Southeast, so I say upper Midwest.  I think the corner quoins and dressed up oval window are a bit much, but I'll take it!  More so than the car!

Saddle River, NJ according to the ebaY auction. With the blue sky and winter yard, it could have been the Denver suburbs as well (very similar houses around here).

[regfootball]

Sweet car,great for a Buick 350 or 455 conversion . I wish we could buy cars styled just like that new. Those were the days when GM still had it .

think a Z06 motor would fit in there?

[regfootball]

mustang, car style, like fashion, goes in trends and cycles....building do also by the way. anyways, perhaps the acceptance of the 300 chrysler and recent rejection of aero maybe signifies this sort of thing is coming around the horn again. with much better build quality I hope! LOL.

I was looking around on Ebay a lot yesterday at the big C and B bodies of the late 70s and early 80s and it brought back vague memories of me riding around in GM's when I was little where there was so much luxury inside.  You went from almost excess padding and bright colors in the 80s to gray plastic and ill-fitting, monotone interiors in the 90s....what happened, GM?

[regfootball]

>>"The block, though beefed up, could not stand the stress and strain of the high-compression diesel pistons. Cylinder-head bolts broke. Gaskets blew. Crankshafts failed. Engines overheated. "<<

The piece says the block 'couldn't handle the stress' then proceeds to call out non-block problem areas. I think that's called slander.

Fact is, the diesel 350 blocks are strong as holy hell and make excellent candidates for a performance gas build. How's 500 HP sound?

from what I recall my dad always saying about the GM diesels was that the head bolts were not capable of handling the strain of the diesel motor and that mostly it was the headbolts that went on them.

[Robert Hall]

Looking at those dimensions, it's hard to imagine at one time these were the downsized, small-big cars from GM. I remember an aunt and uncle had a '73 Centurion that they traded for an '80 Electra, how much smaller it seemed at the time (and I was only 10, but the '73 definitely was a lot bigger). They later traded the '80 on an '86, which was even smaller..

[corvette_dude729]

Holy crap, those seats have more cushion than my sofa!

[trinacriabob]

Saddle River, NJ according to the ebaY auction.    With the blue sky and winter yard, it could have been the Denver suburbs as well (very similar houses around here).

The color of the brick threw me. Those are definitely Midwestern. Some affluent person outside of Cham-bana or Chicago's North Shore would do a house like that! But I could see (Upper) Saddle River, NJ. As far as Denver goes, in Ken Caryl Ranch and such where I've rummaged around looking at houses, they used the redder brick and stayed away from the excesses in wood trim (Denver tends to align itself a little more with the Intermountain West in terms of house styles, IMHO).

Still, if that sled were powered by a garden variety 350 V8 or even that short-lived 4.1 Buick V6, it would be nice to have.

Edited March 20, 2006 by trinacriabob

[mustang84]

mustang, car style, like fashion, goes in trends and cycles....building do also by the way. anyways, perhaps the acceptance of the 300 chrysler and recent rejection of aero maybe signifies this sort of thing is coming around the horn again. with much better build quality I hope! LOL.

True, true. The 90s interiors were probably a reaction to the excess of the 80s.

I can remember sitting in those interiors when I was a kid and sinking back in like the seat was swallowing me up! I remember riding in the back seat of my dad's Cutlass Supreme surrounded by plush everything and little opera windows off to my sides and thinking how neat the blue color of the seats was.

Then, not long after that, we got our '93 Villager with gray sandpaper cloth seats and rattle-tastic gray dash. Even at that age, I knew what cheap was.

[trinacriabob]

Even at that age, I knew what cheap was.

[ponchoman49]

That is a positively gorgeous Park Ave! Not big on the fact that it's a diesel, but it is nice otherwise. That interior looks so inviting. The seats just seem to say "Come on in". Like having a personal limousine. This is one of the cars that expressed the statement "I've arrived" back in the day. A very classy beauty inside & out. GM needs to start making vehicles like this again.

Paulie, to answer your question regarding specs:

Dimensions

Length-220.9"

Width-74.7"

Height-55.6"

Mechanical specs (1981 Olds 350 diesel)

Horsepower-125hp@3600rpm

Torque-225ft.lbs@1600rpm

Bore X Stroke-4.057" X 3.385"

Compression Ratio-22.5:1

Oil Pressure-40psi@1500rpm

VIN code-N

Actually the 1981-1985 Old 350 diesels produced 105 hp@3600 rpms and 205 lbs ft torque@1600 rpms. This 1981 Park Ave also could be ordered with the Buick built 4.1 liter 4bbl V6 with 125 hp and 205 torque or the Olds 307 4bbl V8 with 140 hp and 240 torque. Sadly the Buick built 5.7(350 cid) 4 bbl V8 was scratched after 1980. I have driven a few of these cars with the 4.1 V6 which litterally had NO passing power and the 307 which was just adequate but never a diesel version. That was from an era that make big stately looking cars with real interiors and colors other than dull boring gray or tan.

[trinacriabob]

Sadly the Buick built 5.7(350 cid) 4 bbl V8 was scratched after 1980.

the 307 which was just adequate

That was from an era that make big stately looking cars with real interiors and colors other than dull boring gray or tan.

I think that the 350 was well represented by having Chevy and Olds versions around, with me preferring the latter.

The 307 was an Olds design (305 belonged to Chevrolet and 301 to Pontiac)

The place to be would be to have those great interiors (a little toned down, though) with today's improvements in hp, torque, efficiency and longevity.

[Robert Hall]

The color of the brick threw me.  Those are definitely Midwestern.  Some affluent person outside of Cham-bana or Chicago's North Shore would do a house like that!  But I could see (Upper) Saddle River, NJ.  As far as Denver goes, in Ken Caryl Ranch and such where I've rummaged around looking at houses, they used the redder brick and stayed away from the excesses in wood trim (Denver tends to align itself a little more with the Intermountain West in terms of house styles, IMHO).

Yeah, but in Denver burbs to the south and east (Highlands Ranch, Greenwood Village, Parker,Centennial, Lone Tree, newer parts of Aurora) that grayish tan color is very common... though here the garage is usually always prominently in the front of the house (except in the 'New Urbanism' developments like Lowry and Stapelton where they put the garages behind the house with alleys).

I've looked at a couple houses in Highlands Ranch recently that had 4 car garages..pretty nice, with 2 bays 90 degrees to the others...

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

That is when GM was selling cars. GM was doing things right then. I know what happened. This car was designed in the mid to late 1970's when GM was doing this right and had a large market share. Things started to go wrong around 1983-1984 when these designs were being replaced. They were profiting from the work before in 83 and 84. Roger Smith was head of GM, and you saw the results of his work in 1984-1990. This is why you have to give GM time. We will not see the results of what is going on now until a few years from now. Right now what we are seeing is damage control.

I remember the glory days of GM back then. Every division had great styling, there was not a car you did not like, the interiors were elegant and had cloth and leather. Pontiac also had some luxurious interiors too. I still prefer the Oldsmobiles.

After the distaters of the 1980's, they spent the 1990's trying to correct them. GM right now is trying to break even.

I do miss cars like this. The last examples we had were the 1990's B Bodies and the C Body Deville, Park Avenue and Ninety Eight.

Sad to say as much as I like the 1997-1999 Deville, they do not even come close to this luxury displayed in the photos.

GM was wanting more for less in the 1980's and 1990's. Back in the early 1980's and before that, you paid less and got more.

I think there is a market for cars like this still. The only examples we have are Lincoln Town Car and Mercury Grand Marquis. They have become quite dated too.

The mission became muttled and the image got lost after this car was downsized in 1984 as a 1985. It happened all across the GM lines. No one had anything anymore after that restructuring. This car in the photos was built when each division was semi independent.

You now understand why people are holding on to cars like this and keep them. You now understand why Chrysler 300 is a hit.

People want rear drive, V8's and this kind of luxury done in a contemporary way.

Not every wants an Accord or Camry. Ford and GM spent the 1990's trying to make the Camry and Accord and lost time, money, and market share.

People want cars that will excite them that will energize them.

I like the Buick Lucerne, but I would not give up my car for it because personally, it is lacking on the inside and outside. Imagine if Lucerne offered some of the styling cues and that kind of luxury on the inside with a V8 and rear wheel drive in a smart contemporary package?

Just to take you back..

Here is Regal Grand National Commercial :

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

74.7" wide? I was sure it was more than that, since an Impala/Caprice/Parisienne were 75.4". Isn't it amazing how sparsely equipped even the luxury cars were equipped back then? (Notice the AM-FM stereo radio without a digital clock or cassette player.)

[ehaase]

Regfootball and Ninety Eight Regency expressed my opinions on this car better than I can. I can't get excited about the LaCrosse, Lucerne, or even the Enclave, but, apart from the 1964 to 1970 muscle cars, the 1980 to 1984 C bodies are GM at its best.

[trinacriabob]

All fondness for the era and the luxury aside, these cars DID NOT handle well. Handling was vague. Try taking one of these up to Yosemite with any kind of oomph around those curves into the National Park. Yeah, right.

[Ravenfreak13]

I hate all of those insane bright interior colors!...except the green one..I likey lol

[loki]

could you just change the heads and fuel system and convert it to gas?

tis a beautiful car lol

[Chicagoland]

They made the downsized B and C bodies before 1980, 1977-79.

Sure looking back some get misty eyed, but to most car buyers, they are 'old school'. Also, the current Town Car and Marquis don't have tufted pillow seats.

The best thing about these cars is the basic solidness, I had a 78 Impala beater in the 80s. But, with CAFE gas mileage the law, they had to cut back.

Maybe the Zeta cars will reflect some of the good qualities. No pillowy seats please, but some solid road manners.

[Guest flowmotion]

Those pictures remind me of how crappy the dashboards of those big cars were. It's like they just started grabbing parts from the GM bucket and sticking them in whatever random place they would fit, only to slater it all up with obnoxious, poorly fit plastic and horrid fake wood.

I love the the exterior styling of the big, full-sized American cars (especially pre-1973), but after about 1968 or so, the interiors turned into generic trash.

Edited April 4, 2006 by flowmotion