C&G Exclusive: Emergency Board Meeting Takes Place

[Guest buickman]

OK. So, who?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hell, Gregg Shotwell would do a better job, he's a leader.

Buickman

[CaddyXLR-V]

Multiple times I saw that GM should have replaced X car 3,4,5 years ago. Hello, that car would have had to be in the pipeline since before Wagoner. Wagoner couldn't just come in and cancel everything that was in the pipeline, and let all the models rot for another 5 years until his models are developed. He doesn't have free control to change everything in the company, he has to work with what he has. Which is very high costs, stale product, UAW. Nissan had none of the issues GM does. GM does not have 30 years of bad management to fix, and doesn't have huge fixed costs either. The Delphi deal was signed before Wagoner. GM lost more money last year due to buying out workers that are not needed. That needed to be done. GM needs to fix the product, which looks to be in the pipeline, run the company as a global company instead of alot of smaller companies, which Wagoner has done, and GM needs to become more efficient and get it's costs more competitive with the rest of the industry, which they will need the help of the union for. No company with higher costs can win, unless they can charge higher prices. The market wont allow higher prices. So theres only one option, and that is to take the cost out. You cant spend more money per car, because you cant charge more per car. In order for GM to make the Cobalt class leading as everyone suggests, the starting price would be $18,000. What is so hard to realize about that?

[4gm]

Ok, who's Gregg Shotwell? What's his resume like? Does he have experience running any global, multi-billion dollar corporations? Is he some tech guru that the internet boom spit out?

[Northstar]

He's a Delphi machine operator. He's also the union activist guy behind the "Soldiers of Solidarity" group.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...ESS01/602270373

And he's well qualified to run a multi-billion dollar corporation with endless amounts of problems that he probably has no idea how to fix? :rotflmao:

Caption from pic:

Union activist Gregg Shotwell, right, greets coworker and supporter Juanita Cadman of Coopersville at a Feb. 16 rally outside a Delphi plant in Flint while protesting the parts supplier's plan to cut jobs and costs.

So he wants DPH to continue to bleed red ink and not try to cut costs? Seems like he'd want to do the same at GM (meaning keep all the un-needed plants open, not try to cut health care costs, and keep everything the way it used to be), and that'd put GM into brankruptcy.

Sounds like a GREAT candidate for CEO of General Motors

[Guest Josh]

Like the last political election.......

"Anybody but Wagoner"

[VenSeattle]

Like the last political election.......

"Anybody but Wagoner"

Isn't Jürgen Schrempp available???

[sciguy_0504]

I am going to have to agree with Josh and BM. While I do understand the points and the counterpoints, I have a feeling Wagoner is going to be gone within the next year and, hopefully, it is for the better.

Honestly, GM needs to look outside for its future management. Group-think, go-with-the-flow, be very loyal, etc. are not the best qualities when a company is dying. You need people who know enough about the company and its massive problems and are willing to do something about them. Strong arm the UAW, put a backbone in the PR and marketing departments, reform the organizational structure, remove waste and, most importantly, create amazing product by encouraging designers and engineers and getting a handle on the accountants. Most of the things that need to be done are going to hurt like hell but they need to be done.

[Newbiewar]

This imbecil still would like to know:

If Wagoner is replaced tomorrow, what will change? Who will replace him?

what would change? well for good or worse, no one really knows... people in factories would be confused...

but Wagoner isnt the only problem... look at the board of directors... the only one of them that seems to have been successful at anything is york...

sure GM has stemed plenty of losses last year, but look at GM from 2000 to now... now look at Nissan from 99 to now... at one point they said the CEO of Nissan was one of the most powerful men in the automoive industry, but the quality of Nissans has gone through the floor... now that i look at GM... i think perception is starting to turn... people are starting to look to GM... GM's newest launch of progams is helping... lowered sticker prices... total value... J.D.P.&A. is starting to confirm quality, and even Consumer is starting to give reliable check marks...

here goes to what analysts say...

Analysts would be tough on underperforming CEOs: survey

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Almost half the analysts surveyed said the chief executive of a company with poor financial performance for a year or less should be replaced, according to a study released on Monday.

Forty-six percent of the buy-side and sell-side analysts polled said CEOs should go if the company performs badly for four quarters or less, while 61 percent said a CEO should leave after a year and a half of underperformance, according to the global survey of 282 analysts by consulting firm Hill & Knowlton and British public opinion research firm MORI.

By that measure, Rick Wagoner, the CEO of General Motors Corp. , might find himself looking for work. The Detroit-based automaker, battling high labor and production costs, posted its fifth consecutive quarterly loss in January and GM shares were the worst-performing in the Dow Jones industrial average last year, losing over half their value.

"Other studies have shown that usually about a year's time should be allowed before a CEO is pushed out," Judi Frost Mackey, director of Hill & Knowlton's U.S. corporate and financial practice, said. "In reality, are CEOs pushed out after a year? No. I think it's more a principle than a matter of fact."

And even though analysts spend much of their time crunching company numbers, the survey found that a corporation's reputation is also an important criterion when picking stocks.

When asked to rank the importance of specific factors in making recommendations on companies, 87 percent of the analysts said financial performance was extremely or very important.

Right behind financial performance, 86 percent cited "quality of the leadership team" and 85 percent cited "making good on promises" as very or extremely important.

Even so, those polled assigned "high standards of corporate governance and transparency" the lowest value, with only 65 percent saying it was very important or extremely important.

Copyright 2006 Reuters

[regfootball]

PLPP

product, labor, pushrods, and plastic

It is a legacy problem - 30 + years of bad decisions in the US operations, where it currently hurts them most right now:

1) product

2) labor

For the product there is no excuse except being out of touch.  Labor is another issue all together and that is a question without an answer.

There is  lot that has gone on behind the scenes that you are not aware of or transparent to the public.  The company and how it is organized is not what it was when Roger Smith took over.  Roger Smith would be lost.  A few GM employees who post here could chime in on this.  Many of the current product problems as Croc stated stem from Zarella.  That is not an excuse - but a legacy that needs to take time to work out.  Time that GM can not afford.

Of course years... and many of the structural issues are for the most part addressed.  GM has been cutting billions out of their process for years now, under Wagoner. 

Wagoner has two major issues to address, product and labor/retirees.  Only by working with the UAW can that one get resolved.  That could take time GM does not have working for them.

That is where you need a history lesson.  The period between 1985 - 1992 was a lot worse.  That is not to say, they are not getting close.  This time around though, GM is a lot leaner and has product in the pipeline.  But the problem this time is GM does not have full control of one of the key issues that really ailes them.

The UAW and GM retirees????

[regfootball]

good points but check out the newest Lexus' with space wasting goose neck hinges on the trunk before you cast too many stones......

Cobalt is a dissappointment.  It should have been the cavalier replacement 4 years ago.  The replacement for the Cobalt should have come out next year.  GM fell a generation behind with the too-long life of the Cavalier.  We can only hope they don't try to get more than 5 years out of the Cobalt.

The new civic is already showing it up.  In Feb, Cobalt sales were at ~14K (twice that of feb 2005) and Civic was already at ~25K.  and I can only imagine what will happen when the new Corolla and Sentra are in the mix.

The cobalt is generally average (which isn't good enough), but there are some very strange things that Lutz (or whomever) should have corrected:

1) Why is there a strut instead of a prop to hold up the hood?  No one would have questioned a car in this class having a prop.  Wasted money that could have been used to make the interior less cheap looking (See below).

2) Same thing with the trunk... although I like the fact that I dont' have to worry about the hinges crushing my cargo, the opening of the trunk seemed small and akward.  Two more struts required. 

3) The door lock/unlock buttons are not meant to be teeny-weeny little pieces of plastic with nothing more than a slight line between the lock/unlock toggles.  Use a prop on the hood and then use the extra money to buy good buttons... especially the buttons that are used regularly.  The power window buttons show that they can make real buttons... why cheap out here?

4) I shouldn't have to lift the center storage to use the ebrake.  I shouldn't have to give up center storage if I want an MT (I don't recall... is it even an option to have both?).  That is just stupid.  Don't we know better than that by now?

5) I test drove one, and the cloth on the doors ended before it made it under the plastic piece holding the power window buttons.  I guess poor build quality can happen on any car, but still, this car was supposed to make a statment in this regard. (Both JD Powers and CR rate it average or below in quality/reliability.)

6) HVAC controls.... they shouldn't feel like they are off my crappy boombox from the 80's that I bought when I couldn't afford anything else.  Use a prop, and then spend an extra dollar or two on better plastic.

7) Give me a clock separate from the multi-display.  I shouldn't have to give up my clock when I want to display other information. Even a Kia Rio has a separate clock.  Oh, and while I am on the subject, the display is horrible.... reminds me of a dot-matrix printer in a laser printer world.  It might pass in this class (though others in the class don't have to suffer it), but why is this same poor display forced on the Malibu and the G6?

Rear leg room.  It is very poor.  Especially considering the Cobalt's external size is relatively large... where did all that space get wasted?

9) 4spd auto.  Give it a 5spd.  The fuel economy might then be comparable to other cars in the class.

You may argue that a lot of those things are minor.  But they add up. And there are cars it is competing against that don't have these problems.  As a result, the cobalt doesn't compare well.  But the worst part is that they are all problems that there is no reason for. 

Did Lutz or Wagoner think this was acceptable?  Or was Lutz to busy worrying about some body cladding on a Pontiac?  What do you think Toyota or Honda would do to an exec who allowed this to pass?

[regfootball]

The complaints do confuse me because they are the little details that add to the vehicle rather than detract from it. Your typical Korean car has a hood prop, hinged trunklid, and a seperate clock from a 1980 BetaMax.

Gas struts for the hood and decklid give the car a more upscale feel. There's nothing cheaper-looking than a hood-prop, IMO, and the struts in rear have the advantage you described of not interfering with baggage space. I don't understand the clock-related complaint. When you adjust the volume, frequency, input, etc, the clock display disappears for a few seconds and returns quickly thereafter. Since all digital clocks in cars are hr/min-based, what exactly are you losing here? I really don't understand that.

And again, I'd rather have that over the illegible clocks in Korean products. You want to talk about a poor display being forced on something ill-deserving, an Azera has that same mismatched &#036;h&#33;ty pea-green backlit clock a Rio does. Quite sad.

nah, don't get me going on the Azera.....

[regfootball]

You're not getting it. The CEO shouldn't be concerned with product, that's for the VLEs, engineers, designers, production people and marketers to decide. The CEO should provide guidance and direction while demanding clear lines of responsibility and holding those in said positions fully accountable. Under Wagoner, failure is acceptable, you simply get transferred or put on special assignment. Lovejoy failed more than once and retired, John Smith was a disaster and was promoted, LaNaive is horrible and allowed to continue as long as he follows orders. They've always been so big it didn't seem to matter. Well it's come home to roost that Wag's Ways are unacceptable and doomed in the long run. He's had his long run and now we see the effects of poor leadership.

Buickman

if GM is truly going to change its thinking and become a relevant business today, they will have to have an epic housecleaning of execs and managers and lifers, in all honesty giving THE RICK alone the Heisman isn't going to do much.

[regfootball]

glass half full, many cars have TWO trunk struts, the Cobalt has one on the trunk and uses the other one on the hood and saves money on the prop rod. Especially if either strut is the exact same part as on another GM vehicle and thus saves engineering and duplication costs, not to mention not having to engineer and schedule a unique part for the Cobalt. All while impressing the owner because they don't have to fiddle for the f*cking prop rod, especially in the dark.

EXPAND YOUR MIND AND GOOD THINGS MAY APPEAR..........

Hood struts are more upscale than props.  But how many buyers would have looked at the Cobalt and said, "That's great.... but were is the hood strut?".  Especially in this class?

I took note of it as a good feature.  But then I got into the Cobalt and saw all the cheap touches on the inside.  And my next thought was why did they waste the money on the strut that could have been put into the interior.... even something as inexpensive as good buttons/hvac controls?  (My next thought after that was the episode of the Simpsons where Homer was so fat he couldn't push individual buttons on the phone!)

It is a very poor trade off, and in my opinion it shows some very questionable reasoning.  Like the ebrake, it was almost like they created a problem that didn't need to exist.

As for the trunk, the baggage won't get crushed, but due to the design of the trunk there is no more space.  The hinges (or something) are still there, they are just covered.

Maybe I am confusing the Cobalt with the G6 that I drove... but when I displayed other information, such as MPG, the clock was gone.  I would like to display both. 

And again, it is sad that GM's more upscale cars were saddled with this design.

Kia does seem to be the master of bad interiors.  But that is what I expect from them.  GM can do better, especially if they are going to re-use these parts for their higher-end vehicles.  I'd rather they gave the cobalt a slightly better head unit rather than bringing the G6/malibu down.

Still, nice to see the MPG display and whatnot in a car of the Cobalt's class.

[edit]

Ah, I found a pciture of the trunk...

  The hinges aren't in the way, but due to the location of the tires (or the shortness of the trunk) and the side overhangs of the trunk to hold the struts, there really doesn't seem to be much room gained.  It may just be the picture, but I wonder if they didn't have to do what they did with the hinges as there wasn't room for conventional hinges.

Hmmm...  I see that the carpet covering on the right side is coming off.

[/edit]

Edited March 19, 2006 by regfootball

[regfootball]

Ok, who's Gregg Shotwell?  What's his resume like?  Does he have experience running any global, multi-billion dollar corporations?  Is he some tech guru that the internet boom spit out?

maybe Mark Cuban should run GM.

Edited March 19, 2006 by regfootball

[Shantanu]

The problem is that Rick Wagoner should have obviously been dumped several years ago, or in fact never allowed to have become CEO. The board is reluctant to pull him now, because they've invested so much of their own reputation in propping him up. They are too afraid to admit that they made a mistake.

[evok]

So sayeth the BM. 

In all honesty, it sounds like Mr. Shotwell would make a great Plant Manager or something along those lines. But CEO of a global company? No sir.

CD - LOL

I have a gut feeling CG is getting constipated again. You know what that means.

PS - Do you know if the Ides would make a good laxative!

PS2 - Since I wrote this I got a PM showing the CPCB is also in need of an enema. Do a search on CG for constipation. It will pop up.

Edited March 19, 2006 by evok

[evok]

I am going to have to agree with Josh and BM.  While I do understand the points and the counterpoints, I have a feeling Wagoner is going to be gone within the next year and, hopefully, it is for the better.

If Wagoner goes it is symbolic and both parties(Rick and BOD) know it.

Heir apparent appears to be Henderson. An outsider will not be brought in, there is no time for a learning curve.

Wagoner has his Golden Parachute because he knows he might go for the symbolic reasons and not because the plan will will change.

If he goes there will not be a house cleaning; it would disrupt all the work that has already transpired.

[evok]

What happens when you bring in a new quarterback, pitcher, or coach? There is regime change, alterations in strategy and most importantly, LEADERSHIP! This time we must make sure there is accountability.

The first step I would take would be to clean house at VSSM.

Buickman

I did not ask you opinion on what you think should happen but what will happen so I will ask again;

What will happen if Rick goes?

Be clear, alterations in strategy means what exactly?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Okay, lets face it....

Could 'The Rick' have done a better job at running GM?

MOST CERTAINLY!!! He doesn't move quick enough or drastic enough.

Is GM's current predicament because of 'The Rick'?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Wagoner inherited a sh*t storm and I'm willing to bet that EVERYONE on the inside knows it. I'm also willing to bet that EVERYONE on the inside KNEW that the latest batch of products WOULD NOT be class leading...

But what can they do?!?!! Product cycles in 5 years, perception lags by 10 years... About the only thing they could do was push the hell out of the product (incentives, good PR, Lutz talk) and hope for the best.

If you go to a gun fight with a knife and your backs against the wall, what do you do? You take what you've got and you give it your best shot and pray that you don't get taken down for good!

That's what I think Wagoner and Co. have been doing for the past 2-3 years, while cleaning house on the business side of things (Albeit slowly) But seriously, how fast can they clean house? I mean they're hamstrung by the UAW and Healthcare, they can do NOTHING about this not to mention all of the COMPETITIVE disadvantages that aren't in their control.

[evok]

Okay, lets face it....

Could 'The Rick' have done a better job at running GM?

MOST CERTAINLY!!! He doesn't move quick enough or drastic enough.

Is GM's current predicament because of 'The Rick'?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Wagoner inherited a sh*t storm and I'm willing to bet that EVERYONE on the inside knows it. I'm also willing to bet that EVERYONE on the inside KNEW that the latest batch of products WOULD NOT be class leading...

But what can they do?!?!! Product cycles in 5 years, perception lags by 10 years... About the only thing they could do was push the hell out of the product (incentives, good PR, Lutz talk) and hope for the best.

If you go to a gun fight with a knife and your backs against the wall, what do you do? You take what you've got and you give it your best shot and pray that you don't get taken down for good!

That's what I think Wagoner and Co. have been doing for the past 2-3 years, while cleaning house on the business side of things (Albeit slowly) But seriously, how fast can they clean house? I mean they're hamstrung by the UAW and Healthcare, they can do NOTHING about this not to mention all of the COMPETITIVE disadvantages that aren't in their control.

Do pigs fly?

I agree - great analysis and summation. That hits the nail on the head.

PSII - Yes very good, I re read this a couple of times. That is the truth.

PSIII - I give credit where credit is due. Good job.

Edited March 19, 2006 by evok

[Newbiewar]

even if rick was doing some good, wouldnt it be financially unsafe to give him the boot?

i mean, what would happen to share prices?

what would happen to production lines?

what would happen to future production that lutz is working so hard for?

what would happen to engeneering and innovation that is becoming a foothold for a turnaround?

what would happen to things like GMAC? or Hummer & Saab?

would better management save those things we love the most? pontiac and buick?

would a different CEO do positive things or would they be as bad as the CEO that preceded Wagoner?

is change really a good thing right now, or are things going good right now?

[Guest Josh]

For what it is worth. Many inside the UAW have said it's time for Wagoner to go, but would be willnig to "give up" under a new leader of the company.

The UAW knows what is on the line here, but you won't hear their point of view.

At anyrate, it seems as if the company is headed for bankruptcy....before that hwoever, Wagoner must go.

I've seen him in the flesh and I've stared him eye to eye.

It's time for him to go.

GM and the Unions will work together without Wagoner.

He's had 5 years. How much longer does it take?

As far as the Schremph comment........that just shows how undeducated you are.

[regfootball]

wasn't schremp's wife the one who got the booze for the teens and was hittin on guys?

[regfootball]

every 'team' needs a fall guy before they get rebuilt. its inevtiable.

For what it is worth. Many inside the UAW have said it's time for Wagoner to go, but would be willnig to "give up" under a new leader of the company.

The UAW knows what is on the line here, but you won't hear their point of view.

At anyrate, it seems as if the company is headed for bankruptcy....before that hwoever, Wagoner must go.

I've seen him in the flesh and I've stared him eye to eye.

It's time for him to go.

GM and the Unions will work together without Wagoner.

He's had 5 years. How much longer does it take?

As far as the Schremph comment........that just shows how undeducated you are.

[Guest Josh]

wasn't schremp's wife the one who got the booze for the teens and was hittin on guys?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If she's a desperate housewife....I need to find out where she's staying.

[regfootball]

If she's a desperate housewife....I need to find out where she's staying.

hold on, i'll let her know, she just rolled over........

[Guest buickman]

Seriously speaking, Wagoner goes, Henderson steps in as Chairman and Spielman becomes CEO. That my friend is what should happen. I like Fritz's honesty, and Joe's leaderhip qualities. Wagoner I don't trust, and many feel the same way.

As to how to improve market share and the bottom line see "Return to Greatness".

Buickman

Edited March 19, 2006 by buickman

[CaddyXLR-V]

As to how to improve market share and the bottom line see "Return to Greatness".

Buickman

HAHA, please dont go there again. Lets rename it, "Waste of Time" and call it a day, ok?

[Guest buickman]

You'd rather see another Red Tag Sale??? Toyota regularly visits GeneralWatch,as do Honda, Nissan and the bunch. Why do you suppose I only released the first twenty steps? Anyway, Toyota took some advice and increased the dealer margin on Camry. They listen, GM doesn't. Get It????

GM reminds me of the Chariot that is out of control going down a hill at break neck speed and the driver has already jumped off and the passengers i.e. GM board members are inside in total denial.

Buickman

Edited March 19, 2006 by buickman

[VenSeattle]

Isn't Jürgen Schrempp available??? 

As far as the Schremph comment........that just shows how undeducated you are.

Yeeea. Pretty sure he was joking.

Thank you.

[Guest buickman]

LOL!! :rotflmao: 

So you're just gonna take credit for that one then? You really think you're responsible for that? Is that it? Really kickin' it up a notch on the delusions aren't ya? "BAM!"

You've posted some wacko stuff before, but this one takes the cake.    

Holy hell this website needs an enema!   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's see, Toyota visits GeneralWatch almost daily where increasing dealer margin is recommended. They do so. Gee....

[CaddyXLR-V]

Let's see, Toyota visits GeneralWatch almost daily where increasing dealer margin is recommended. They do so. Gee....

The probably find it hilarious. It is their entertainment.

[Guest buickman]

Yea, they're laughing all the way to the bank.

Buickman

[sciguy_0504]

If Wagoner goes it is symbolic and both parties(Rick and BOD) know it.

Heir apparent appears to be Henderson.  An outsider will not be brought in, there is no time for a learning curve.

Wagoner has his Golden Parachute because he knows he might go for the symbolic reasons and not because the plan will will change.

If he goes there will not be a house cleaning; it would disrupt all the work that has already transpired.

If throwing Wagoner out is symbolic and nothing else there is even more reason to get rid of him.

Is that a GM group-think learning curve an outsider would have to understand? Amazing...

[evok]

If throwing Wagoner out is symbolic and nothing else there is even more reason to get rid of him.

It really depends if the job is currently getting done or not according to the restructuring schedule and the closed door meeting with labor as seen by the BOD.

At this point - public opinions are meaningless and irrelvant.

Is that a GM group-think learning curve an outsider would have to understand?  Amazing...

It will take any new person from the inside a year or so to learn the position and develop solutions - if from the outside - it will take that much longer to learn the process internal to GM.

GM has about 2 years left to right the wrongs in the US operations and turn the ship around.

[evok]

Let's see, Toyota visits GeneralWatch almost daily where increasing dealer margin is recommended. They do so. Gee....

For those that have seen the movie I love the Huckabees:

))<>((

[Shantanu]

The accounting scandal alone is enough to throw this guy out the door.

[Ghost Dog]

I myself think the Government should step in and Take over GM. I think the FASB should set forth stringent Straight arrow accounting guidelines specifically for GM. And I think the PBGC should have Full authority over all GM transactions.

I think GM has been so mismanaged that nothing short of a Government take over will " Set Things Right "

[evok]

I myself think the Government should step in and Take over GM. I think the FASB should set forth stringent Straight arrow accounting guidelines specifically for GM. And I think the PBGC should  have Full authority over all GM transactions.

I think GM has been so mismanaged that nothing short of a Government take over  will " Set Things Right "

Oh the White House has already given their answer to this one.

And really - do you want the Feds running GM?

There are enough examples out there so I will not elaborate.

[Ghost Dog]

Oh the White House has already given their answer to this one.

And really - do you want the Feds running GM?

There are enough examples out there so I will not elaborate.

I'm not talking about a bailout. More a Nationalization.

And yes I'll take the Feds .

[Guest Josh]

Just remember, no name calling or personal attacks on Buickman, and vice versa.

If this web-site needs an enama and if you feel that way, maybe this web-site is not a place for you.

[Flybrian]

For those that have seen the movie I love the Huckabees:

))<>((

[evok]

Just remember, no name calling or personal attacks on Buickman, and vice versa.

If this web-site needs an enama and if you feel that way, maybe this web-site is not a place for you.

))<>((

[Flybrian]

Allrighty, guys, its funny, but let's move back on topic.

[regfootball]

Seriously speaking, Wagoner goes, Henderson steps in as Chairman and Spielman becomes CEO. That my friend is what should happen. I like Fritz's honesty, and Joe's leaderhip qualities. Wagoner I don't trust, and many feel the same way.

As to how to improve market share and the bottom line see "Return to Greatness".

Buickman

why stop at one. let's purge the top 20, and bring in a new crew altogether.

[sciguy_0504]

It really depends if the job is currently getting done or not according to the restructuring schedule and the closed door meeting with labor as seen by the BOD.

At this point - public opinions are meaningless and irrelvant. 

It will take any new person from the inside a year or so to learn the position and develop solutions - if from the outside - it will take that much longer to learn the process internal to GM.

GM has about 2 years left to right the wrongs in the US operations and turn the ship around.

I thought public opinions did mean something? I think getting rid of some top GM management will show the public that GM is actually making a full turn around, which has been promised 1,000 times before but has never been delivered.

You made my point exactly. GM's internal process has not worked well for the past few decades so why continue it? Instead of obnoxiously demanding what will change if Wagoner is gone tomorrow, perhaps you should take the time to think about what has a better chance of happening if another GM executive clone is placed at the helm: stay the same "we're going to turn this company around" lip service-type course or actually do something to get GM back on track.

[z28luvr01]

Well, for all those who want Wagoner out, I hope that when the MY07-10 vehicles fare much better in the market than GM's current vehicles, and GMNA returns to profitability, that you give credit where it's due.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

On the Wagoner issue, I'm neutral on the subject and am wating for at least another model year's worth of product to debut before I make judgement.

But, I do really feel like punching Wagoner in his ugly face for two reasons; a) he has this look that makes me think he just sucked a lemon when he grins and b) I do think it took him a long time to finally move to making GM better, if future evidence proves that he did.

[evok]

I thought public opinions did mean something?

Not in business. Institutional holders, BOD and to an extent the UAW are the opinions that matter. Sorry but your opinion, my opinion and the rest of the public's opinions on a meassage board do not matter. Hell even the public stock holders are out voted by the institutional investors.

I think getting rid of some top GM management will show the public that GM is actually making a full turn around, which has been promised 1,000 times before but has never been delivered.

You do not understand the problems that GM has or what has been happening the past 5 years at GM. There is not a silver bullet nor will a management shake up do anything positive or change the current restructuring plan.

GM's internal process has not worked well for the past few decades so why continue it?  Instead of obnoxiously demanding what will change if Wagoner is gone tomorrow, perhaps you should take the time to think about what has a better chance of happening if another GM executive clone is placed at the helm:  stay the same "we're going to turn this company around" lip service-type course or actually do something to get GM back on track.

You obviously have never worked in a large organization before from the above statements, and in nothing as complex as GM or mass manufacturing, or if so not observant.

What will change if Wagoner is gone would be nothing drastic, that is unless there is something big in the closet that has not been made public.

Edited March 20, 2006 by evok

[turbo200]

I leave for a few days, and we get the most activity in two weeks....back to page one!