C&G Exclusive: Emergency Board Meeting Takes Place

[Cadillacfan]

7) Give me a clock separate from the multi-display.  I shouldn't have to give up my clock when I want to display other information.

Aren't we being a little too picky here? I can agree with the rest of what you are complaining about.. but the clock? Come on! There is nothing wrong with where it is.

[turbo200]

I am with the camp that believes Wagoner has already begun the process, and Lutz was an instrumental move in the process, along with massive global realignments, extreme cost-cutting efforts, etc. Product analysis from an outsider perspective is so limited--we have no idea who was in control of what, how dollars and programs mattered, supplier coordination, etc--there is simply too much involved in this damn process for one of us to stick the finger at one guy.

Evok is in support of wagoner, that's all I need to know to know he is doing the right job and steering the company in the right direction, since from his analysis, opinion, and experience, evok has proved himself to be the one we should all try and emulate. This is not a soapbox thing or an identification game, simply there have been many reasons pointed out why we should believe GM is doing all it can to improve over the next years.

Some of the things buickman and josh have said show them for just how silly they are....Josh, you've looked him in the eye? Who are you, Jesus? You know what's going on inside him? That's more than a little ridiculous man.

[Guest Josh]

Josh, you've looked him in the eye? Who are you, Jesus?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah, just God.

[Croc]

Joshdammit!

[Flybrian]

For the love of Josh, Croc...seriously. This is the last Joshdamn time I tell you. I swear to Josh...

[Guest Josh]

That's the most intelligent thing I've read from you in awhile, Croc. Wait, that's the only thing I've read from you in awhile.

You my friend, deserve a pat on the back.

[evok]

Evok is in support of wagoner,

I am not against Wagoner. I just do not agree with the arguements against him. Not one poster brought up a good case that he should go that I could not refute.

I have made a case earlier that he may go.

But, obnoxiously I will say again, what will change?

[Guest Josh]

Accountability.

If you remove the top guy, the guy that has been at the helm for 5 years that has done nothing to fix GM's course that they were on when he came on board then it tells people within the company to shape up.

Right now there is just no accountability. None.

[evok]

Accountability.

If you remove the top guy, the guy that has been at the helm for 5 years that has done nothing to fix GM's course that they were on when he came on board then it tells people within the company to shape up.

Right now there is just no accountability. None.

))<>((

Spoken like someone that has a lot of life learning to do.

[Guest Josh]

))<>((

Spoken like someone that has a lot of life learning to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's a quick hint and a clue. I come here because I do not need somebody to preach to me. I don't need somebody to tell me I need to learn the values of life or that I need to learn life in general.

I have a father, I don't need another one.

Not to mention, I will not tolerate personal attacks, not on me, not on this site. I answered your question, you came back with an attack that I have a lot of "life learning" to do.

I'll live my life, and you live yours. I don't tell you what I feel you need to do, do I?

[Flybrian]

Hey, take it to PM or AIM if necessary. C'mon.

[Ghost Dog]

When a Corporation has to Resort to "Agressive Accounting" To create the Mirage that the Company is doing well, thats Bad Management. The Aggressive accounting the Big Dividends. Its Been all about Illusion at Gm.

Instead of Business.

If GM had been using conservative accounting. Banking money for thier liabilities.Holding back Dividends. Not throwing money down the drain with offshore investment,Fiat Saab,........

The Company would be much better off.

[Guest buickman]

One thing for sure, there is no lack of passion here. I don't know of anyone more in favor of removing Mr Wagoner than I am. He must be held accountable for the condition of GM. He has been at the top since 1994 and time has run out for him, as have excuses. I'm not going to claim that I have all the answers, only some ideas. Meanwhile, I am committed to participating in these forums with respect for the other members and will do my best to refrain from letting my passion for GM interfer with proper decorum. We CAN express our opinions without personal attack. First we must all realize it's OK to disagree, second that progress and change is never easy.

Buickman

[evok]

Accountability.

If you remove the top guy, the guy that has been at the helm for 5 years that has done nothing to fix GM's course that they were on when he came on board then it tells people within the company to shape up.

Right now there is just no accountability. None.

The above is an opinion from someone that has never spent any time within the inside of GM, collected a paycheck from GM, or for that matter, worked in automotive, seriously studied automotive (formally and informally), or for that matter has a direct working knowledge of automotive.

So I will conclude that your opnion is not rooted in an educated basis on the subject.

[91z4me]

OK, evok. The only way to convince all of us that Josh is wrong is to give us the down low on all the new RWD cars. :AH-HA_wink:

[turbo200]

One thing for sure, there is no lack of passion here. I don't know of anyone more in favor of removing Mr Wagoner than I am. He must be held accountable for the condition of GM. He has been at the top since 1994 and time has run out for him, as have excuses. I'm not going to claim that I have all the answers, only some ideas. Meanwhile, I am committed to participating in these forums with respect for the other members and will do my best to refrain from letting my passion for GM interfer with proper decorum. We CAN express our opinions without personal attack. First we must all realize it's OK to disagree, second that progress and change is never easy.

Buickman

No one here is afraid of change. I can tell you everyone here is interested in what is best for the company, and not one of us would defer from making changes if we felt they were necessary. We are not here to bite our tounges.

However, to remove Wagoner would be a symbolic move more than anything, as has been discussed here, and would not result in any great changes tomorrow. The problem Wagoner has is the last five years were horrible for product. And GM has had thirty years before that of bad product. This has tarnished thier reputation beyond the comprehension of a Midwesterner who doesn't venture out of his territory. GM, aside from trucks, is beyond relevance in California. This is a problem that must be fixed. It isn't going to happen with the current batch of products. That is the major problem they have had for decades now, having product that didn't appeal to the customer, in different ways. They are suffering the consequences of irrelevance now. In the entertainment business when someone is irrelevant it is as if their carrer is dead; for whatever combination of reasons, they stopped managing to entertain and stopped being desirable to the public. A comeback is only a few great songs or a great acting performance away, as many artists have shown. The same is clear for GM.

None of this is due to Wagoner. The best product GM will have in decades, or ever, will be directly because of him. I am grateful for this time of droughts for GM that showed them just how arrogant and complacent they had become.

[sciguy_0504]

Not in business.  Institutional holders, BOD and to an extent the UAW are the opinions that matter.  Sorry but your opinion, my opinion and the rest of the public's opinions on a meassage board do not matter.  Hell even the public stock holders are out voted by the institutional investors.

One look at any of the mainstream media's infamous GM articles, complete with claims from industry analysts, tells me that public perception does matter.

You do not understand the problems that GM has or what has been happening the past 5 years at GM.  There is not a silver bullet nor will a management shake up do anything positive or change the current restructuring plan.

Obviously there is no silver bullet. A mangement shake up will not change the current restructuring plan of the month and will largely be symbolic but, if done correctly, it has the opportunity to change the long-range thinking of GM, which is sorely needed. Any GM advisor, analyst, marketer or manager who recommended putting all of GM's eggs into one huge SUV basket in order to get short-term gains should no longer have a job. Look at what it has done. It is akin to eating a candy bar when you want lasting energy.

You obviously have never worked in a large organization before from the above statements, and in nothing as complex as GM or mass manufacturing, or if so not observant.

Wow, you are so perceptive. I may be too young to have ever worked in a large organization or be knowledgable about GM's past problems but I am observant enough to realize something may be wrong internally if we are on the 10th "restructuring plan" and results are few and far between. I am not just talking about more recent problems rather what has been going on for the past few decades. That's why I have a problem with a new CEO or other high-level mangement being born and bred GM. "Yes men," group-thinkers and loyalists cause huge problems when the going gets rough, as we have seen with GM, other companies, the president, etc.

[turbo200]

One look at any of the mainstream media's infamous GM articles, complete with claims from industry analysts, tells me that public perception does matter.

Obviously there is no silver bullet.  A mangement shake up will not change the current restructuring plan of the month and will largely be symbolic but, if done correctly, it has the opportunity to change the long-range thinking of GM, which is sorely needed.  Any GM advisor, analyst, marketer or manager who recommended putting all of GM's eggs into one huge SUV basket in order to get short-term gains should no longer have a job.  Look at what it has done.  It is akin to eating a candy bar when you want lasting energy.

Wow, you are so perceptive.  I may be too young to have ever worked in a large organization or be knowledgable about GM's past problems but I am observant enough to realize something may be wrong internally if we are on the 10th "restructuring plan" and results are few and far between.  I am not just talking about more recent problems rather what has been going on for the past few decades. That's why I have a problem with a new CEO or other high-level mangement being born and bred GM.  "Yes men," group-thinkers and loyalists cause huge problems when the going gets rough, as we have seen with GM, other companies, the president, etc.

i believe this is the first "real" restructuring plan in a long time. The old-time GM think is gone, replaced with new efficinecy, world-wide leveraging of common products, and a new passion for creativity and breakthrough design. GMT900s needed to be replaced, and just happen to be coming in a time that the car line looks sparse. Saturn will heat things up, then of course the new CTS, aside from this we won't see the rest of the car lineup until W and G-body finally get replaced and Sigma gets a smaller, cheaper brother. The yes men are being filtered out, or have already been mostly filtered out, and GM has figured out it takes desirable product with a pulse on where the market is going and has been going are all it takes for a successful quarter. The real revelation is GM has finally admitted it is out of touch, and needs to be more successful in creating desirable product. It took a lot of time, and a lot inept decisions, but DESIGN is finally flowing again at GM.

[97regalGS]

Here's a quick hint and a clue. I come here because I do not need somebody to preach to me. I don't need somebody to tell me I need to learn the values of life or that I need to learn life in general.

I have a father, I don't need another one.

Not to mention, I will not tolerate personal attacks, not on me, not on this site. I answered your question, you came back with an attack that I have a lot of "life learning" to do.

I'll live my life, and you live yours. I don't tell you what I feel you need to do, do I?

so, could you explain just exactly how 'accountability' would solve GM's problems? cause that's a pretty vague concept.

[ShadowDog]

Forget it. We`re not qualified analysts or controllers. We can point fingers and say a few choice words that dance happily on the side of personal opinion. Nobody can put anything in this thread that can stand anywhere near the grey area of a plausible positive outcome, never mind the side of Utopia where GM will be the best at everything it does.

We`ve had the finger pointing at product and we`ve seen relatively good product churn out; mind you, the 90`s was probably the decade that got us into this mess in the first place, so it takes time to recover.

Dramatic change won`t come from replacing monkeys in the executive offices. It might make a few people here feel better, but it`s still the same sheet metal and bolts assembled by the same people we all get to look at.

My opinion, yes that`s all it ever was, just an opinion, is that the cost of doing business is what`s too great. Just coming up with a vehicle that sells extremely well only provides an ace in the hole. Execs go on their knees and pray for big sales to support the bleeding coffers. The fat needs trimming in order for GM to enable a w-i-d-e-r margin from their returns. That`s literally the bottom line...no pun intended.