C&G Exclusive: Emergency Board Meeting Takes Place

[Guest Josh]

Sources within General Motors have signaled that the GM Board of Directors today, met in an emergency meeting after the additional $2 Billion loss announced yesterday is in addition to the $8.6 Billion loss previously announced.

We've also received word that the Board of Directors will hold another emergency meeting early next week. The Board is clearly not happy with the latest turn of events and this latest news of an additional $2 Billion loss. Most of the costs are seen coming from a Delphi bail-out which is expected to be announced early next week as well.

As always, we'll have more details as we get them.

[Guest Josh]

There was a board meeting that took place today that was extensive.

There was the judgement call to move things along more quickly than had been planned. (RWD?)

Expect to see more Opel here faster than projected.

Also, why did GM delay the Lambda's if they are so critical to the future of the company? Expect them to see the market sooner as well.

There was a meeting today. There will be one early next week.

The last time this happened GMT900 was deemed to come to market a quick as well.

RWD is coming before we know it. Part of the "loss" was just that. Job losses at other plants that will make it.

You'll see.

[regfootball]

say bye bye to THE RICK!

Buickman, enjoy yourself a cold one if that happens.

[knightfan26917]

RWD is coming before we know it. Part of the "loss" was just that. Job losses at other plants that will make it.

You'll see.

Sure hope so. I'm tired of hearing "RWD is coming" ... have been hearing this from GM/Chevrolet since the late 90s ... and haven't seen affordable RWD in cars from them yet (with the exception, of course, of the GTO).

*sighs*

Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker

MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/

Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html

What's it like to buy your favorite car brand new? Wish I knew...

"You've made a fool of everyone" ... Jet ... 'Look What You've Done'

[regfootball]

RWD only is not what will save GM. GM more importantly needs to build serious credible threats to market segment sellers like Camry, Caravan, Altima, Accord, Corollas, etc.

[Guest buickman]

First of all Wagoner was born in Wilmington, so either he's a duPont cousin, or married to one. The man was fast tracked through management with the preordained CEO position awaiting. He was a disaster in purchasing long ago. I know this from personal friends who knew him way back. He was ushered through finance, shipped off to Brazil, then stair stepped to the top. Someone VERY BIG is backing him I assure you. The question remains...WHO?

Since becoming head of North American Operations in 1994, Richard Wagoner is responsible for a 30% drop in market share and a loss of over $50 billion in shareholder value since becoming CEO in 2000.

The other theory, less plausible, is that years ago when the government decided GM was too big, they brought in Wags as a secret agent to destroy the corporation.

Buickman

Edited March 18, 2006 by buickman

[Guest buickman]

say bye bye to THE RICK!

Buickman, enjoy yourself a cold one if that happens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Last April I personally made a deal with Mark "LaNaive" to implement "Return to Greatness" The following week he went backwards on his word and handshake. Since his immediate boss was and is "Red Ink Rick", I knew why it happened. When the CEO is hellbent on eliminating unionized production and downsizing everything from the supplier base to the dealer network, there's not much hope of turning the ship around. That is why I began a personal vendetta to get the bastard out. Now I'm beginning to look like a visionary.

You bet I'll have a "cold one". In fact, I'll throw one hell of a party and you are all invited.

Buickman

Edited March 18, 2006 by buickman

[ehaase]

GM more importantly needs to build serious credible threats to market segment sellers like Camry, Caravan, Altima, Accord, Corollas, etc.

GM has proven it can't do that. It said that the 1987 Corsica would do it - failed. It said that the 1997 Malibu would do it - failed. It said that the Epsilons would do it - failed. It said that Saturn would do it - failed. People will only buy GM cars if they get a good deal, but GM can't survive on low prices, when it pays such high wages and benefits to UAW workers and retirees.

[91z4me]

When the CEO is hellbent on eliminating unionized production and downsizing everything from the supplier base to the dealer network, there's not much hope of turning the ship around. That is why I began a personal vendetta to get the bastard out.

You bet I'll have a "cold one". In fact, I'll throw one hell of a party and you are all invited.

So it finally comes out! You think that Rick is trying to destroy your dealer buddies lively hoods! So you DO have a personal vendetta! The truth shall set you free!!!

Also lets remember 1 thing besides personal things: there are LOTS of factors why GM's marketshare has fallen, many beyond the CEO's control. The rise of Toyota's products. The anti American biased media. The HUGE increase in healthcare costs. Rick is taking the company where it needs to go to survive. Do you disagree with the fact that GM needs to be a global company? Do you disagree with the fact that cars costing as little as the Aveo must be assembled in lower cost plants, overseas? Do you not understand all the problems that Roger Smith started when he diversified the company and built huge robotic plants in the 80s? Come on Jim dig your head out of the sand and see the light. All of GMs problems CAN'T be placed on one person, PERIOD!

The man was fast tracked through management with the preordained CEO position awaiting. Someone VERY BIG is backing him I assure you. The question remains...WHO?

Quick put on your tinfoil hat so the Illuminati can't read your mind!

[Guest buickman]

Let's see...we lost almost $11 billion and guess what? That's our market cap. Still you defend the guy? Tell me who has their head in the sand and their lips on Wagoner's butt?

Buickman

[91z4me]

Let's see...we lost almost $11 billion and guess what? That's our market cap. Still you defend the guy? Tell me who has their head in the sand and their lips on Wagoner's butt?

Buickman

My lips are nowhere but my own face. Lets look at this objectively, OK? There is a board of directors for GM. They approve all major business decisions, selling Suzuki stake or Fuji or EVEN the FIAT deal! Now Rick gets a say in that and sets the direction of the company. He wants higher quality platforms, interiors, and better safety features. There must be money spent to get those programs online and that is what is happening now. Not only that but ALL the cost of the GMT900 push is in there without any profit because of when they went on sale. Also lets not forget that a LOT of Lambda work was in there and so is a huge part of the Delphi bail out.

Tell you what Jim, I am not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change mine. Lets just drop this now, OK?

[Guest buickman]

Agreed. Here's to a healthy GM, one way or the other.

Buickman

[Sixty8panther]

Wasn't Rick the one to decide to euthenize the B-bodys? If so I'll be "Swinkling" right along with Buickman.

[4gm]

Do you disagree with the fact that cars costing as little as the Aveo must be assembled in lower cost plants, overseas?  Do you not understand all the problems that Roger Smith started when he diversified the company and built huge robotic plants in the 80s? 

It's been well established that Buickman consistently fails to respond to legitimate questions. Don't even bother trying.

[Guest buickman]

What's been well established is that Rick Wagoner is a complete failure, and his continued reign is a guarantee of financial ruination. $50 billion in shareholder value gone since 2000, $10 Billion in losses last year. Accounting irregularities, SEC investigation, credit downgrades deep into junk, market share in the tank, competition growing under same economic conditions, record recalls, every excuse in the book, spinmasters at work overtime, lack of responsibility, devoid of accountability, zero credibility, promises unfulfilled, so-called plans mysteriously concealed, refusal to offer earnings guidance, communities across America suffering, thousands stranded uselessly in jobs banks while paying overtime and contractors, marketing campaigns continued and repeated that are proven ineffective and costly without return, alienation of dealers, employees, retirees, salespeople, and customers, billions wasted on Fiat, Saturn, Saab, Subarau, assets like Oldsmobile (a million unit seller) and GMAC are spun, closed, or sold to raise cash since Wagoner and his fellow pencil pushers are unable to stop the operational bleeding.

"Red Ink Rick" once again assumed personal 'responsibility???' for North America a year ago and has failed miserably, yet has the audacity to remain confident of his leadership and veiled palns. The only restructuring needed at GM is in the Boardroom and top of the Ren Cen. No wonder the copmplex on Jefferson Avenue facing the river is termed "The Tubes". That is exactly where Mr Wagoner has taken General Motors.

Buickman

Edited March 18, 2006 by buickman

[Ravenfreak13]

This could mean that my ion replacement is coming sooner then we thought!

[Guest Josh]

Looking at things. Wagoner has been on CEO for 5 years. That is long enough to right the wrong doings of the company. Five years is enough time to develop attractive, RWD cars which is what has been promised to us for about the same timeframe, yet it hasn't happened.

I can tell you if my boss at my store let our traffic and #'s drop even 25% in 5 MONTHS he'd be canned.

[Guest buickman]

How long would Wagoner last working for Steinbrenner, Jerry Jones, or Donald Trump? Is it only in Motown that we live with failure? Tigers, Lions, and Wagoner. Thankfully, at least the Red Wings win a championship occasionally. Still I remember the picture of Steve Y holding the trophy while standing by his Porsche. Even our own local heros aren't impressed by the image of owning GM.

Buickman

[91z4me]

Looking at things. Wagoner has been on CEO for 5 years. That is long enough to right the wrong doings of the company. Five years is enough time to develop attractive, RWD cars which is what has been promised to us for about the same timeframe, yet it hasn't happened.

I can tell you if my boss at my store let our traffic and #'s drop even 25% in 5 MONTHS he'd be canned.

Josh, do you really want to be on that side of the fence, look at the company?

Also you can't compare a small retail store to a manufacturing corporation with a different markets and HUGE product cost differences. If you wanted to compare GE or Boeing's performance to GMs sure but not a small retail front. They aren't even in the same league.

[LTB51]

Josh, do you really want to be on that side of the fence, look at the company?

Also you can't compare a small retail store to a manufacturing corporation with a different markets and HUGE product cost differences.  If you wanted to compare GE or Boeing's performance to GMs sure but not a small retail front.  They aren't even in the same league.

While not as big as GM, Ghosn showed what a good leader can accomplish in a short time.

Wagoner is five+ years into a slide that they are just starting to address.... maybe. Buickman and Josh are right, most other companies would have fired him long ago.

I think his major accomplishment has been to convince people that boogeymen such as legacy costs, health care, dollar valuation, media bias, etc. are what are causing GM's slide. Most people seem to have bought it. In the meantime the real problems have gone mostly unaddressed.

The reality is that it is all about the product, and GM's product under his watch, other than a select few, has lagged the competition. One only has to look at the Tahoe to realize that all it takes is good product to turn thing around. What is $1,000 (?) more per vehicle of legacy costs when you can sell a better vehicle for $7,000 more?

Where would the G6 be right now if they hadn't put the malibu's interior in there? Not replacing Grand Ams at the rental agencies, I imagine. Wagoner certainly had enough opportunity to make sure that was done right, but he saw an opportunity to save some money by sharing the malibus lackluster interior. Good choice!

Edited March 18, 2006 by LTB51

[Croc]

You Wagoner-haters simply fail to understand the way this industry works. We are JUST NOW getting the products that were developed under Wagoner and Lutz. Everything else was started under Zarella. Cobalt is competitive, Lucerne is selling briskly, HHR is a hit, Solstice is a hit, the T900s are resounding hits...and of these, only the Solstice is a 100% Wagoner-Lutz effort. Everything else was started under Zarella.

I am going to keep posing this question until I get good responses:

What product has been sub-par that Lutz and Wagoner had significant influence over?

I'm just dying to know...

[Croc]

Where would the G6 be right now if they hadn't put the malibu's interior in there?  Not replacing Grand Ams at the rental agencies, I imagine.  Wagoner certainly had enough opportunity to make sure that was done right, but he saw an opportunity to save some money by sharing the malibus lackluster interior.  Good choice!

The Malibu and G6 have unique interiors. I think the only real commonalities are the steering wheel and radio unit. The designs are very different. See:

[evok]

You Wagoner-haters simply fail to understand the way this industry works.  We are JUST NOW getting the products that were developed under Wagoner and Lutz.  Everything else was started under Zarella.  Cobalt is competitive, Lucerne is selling briskly, HHR is a hit, Solstice is a hit, the T900s are resounding hits...and of these, only the Solstice is a 100% Wagoner-Lutz effort.  Everything else was started under Zarella.

I am going to keep posing this question until I get good responses:

What product has been sub-par that Lutz and Wagoner had significant influence over?

I'm just dying to know...

And another question that needs to be asked is:

If Wagoner is replaced tomorrow, what will change?

[Croc]

Short answer essay with a cogent thesis, double-spaced, 1" margins, 12pt font, Times New Roman. Approx. 750 words.

[evok]

If Wagoner is replaced tomorrow IMO this is what will change and there are 2 options:

1) Nothing - move symbolic and the BOD approved restructuring plan will go on as planned and the UAW, retirees and Street will know the situation is dire and are more likely to see that.

or

2) Move symbolic and all hell will break loose because the BOD approved restructuring plan will be expedited.

a - Product will not change, nor will timing from current plans.

b - The UAW question will go nuclear.

c - DPH gets hung out to dry.

d - Strike certain.

e - Red ink.........Chapter 11 all but certain.

f - Government steps in to force labor back to work.

g - Market share drops.

[The O.C.]

You Wagoner-haters simply fail to understand the way this industry works.  We are JUST NOW getting the products that were developed under Wagoner and Lutz.  Everything else was started under Zarella.  Cobalt is competitive, Lucerne is selling briskly, HHR is a hit, Solstice is a hit, the T900s are resounding hits...and of these, only the Solstice is a 100% Wagoner-Lutz effort.  Everything else was started under Zarella.

I am going to keep posing this question until I get good responses:

What product has been sub-par that Lutz and Wagoner had significant influence over?

I'm just dying to know...

Solstice.....

I think it's a hell of an attractive little roadster....and is priced extremely well.

However, to me, they totally dropped the ball on interior quality, soft-top fit-and-finish, soft-top ease of use, available luggage space (compared to its peer, the MX-5) and the overall weightiness of the platform.

I'm not calling Solstice a failure....but to me, things like interior quality (material supplier choice??) and the quality of the operation and fit of the soft-top are things they (Wagner and Lutz) should have been able to influence.

The platform weight and available trunk space may have been harder to change given the time they brought the car to market.....but does that rationale make those setbacks in the product acceptable?

The market, over time, will tell.......

[Guest buickman]

evok,

What you have outlined is actually what has happened under "Red Ink Rick".

Buickman

Founder

www.GeneralWatch.com

Edited March 18, 2006 by buickman

[evok]

evok,

What you have outlined is actually what has happened under "Red Ink Rick".

Buickman

Founder

www.GeneralWatch.com

If Wagoner is replaced tomorrow, what will change?

[91z4me]

If Wagoner is replaced tomorrow, what will change?

Buickman will walk around feeling like the king of the world, for about a day and then start bitching about the new CEO.

[hyperv6]

Losing Rick will damage much more than help GM. There are a lot of thing that need to change but Rick is not one of them. It is foolish to think other wise.

A lot of good things are in place at GM just time is very tight and every setback makes it tighter.

I hope Evok is not upset is I agree with him 100% here.

[evok]

Losing Rick will damage much more than help GM. There are a lot of thing that need to change but Rick is not one of them.  It is foolish to think other wise.

A lot of good things are in place at GM just time is very tight and every setback makes it tighter.

I hope Evok is not upset is I agree with him 100% here.

Not if I upset you because I agree with your comments 100%.

ha ha

[Shantanu]

You can't blame all of GM's problems on legacy issues. Rick Wagoner has done a mediocre job overall of running GM; I don't think there is anyone out there who doubts that.

And if he is replaced tomorrow, you're right that nothing will change on March 19, what with it being a Sunday and all. Or even on March 20. But these changes are seen in terms of years. And with Rick Wagoner we have got a mediocre record going back several years.

It's really hard to imagine GM doing much worse than they are doing right now. GM needs change, and much of that change has to be a change in people.

[evok]

You can't blame all of GM's problems on legacy issues.

It is a legacy problem - 30 + years of bad decisions in the US operations, where it currently hurts them most right now:

1) product

2) labor

For the product there is no excuse except being out of touch. Labor is another issue all together and that is a question without an answer.

Rick Wagoner has done a mediocre job overall of running GM; I don't think there is anyone out there who doubts that.

There is lot that has gone on behind the scenes that you are not aware of or transparent to the public. The company and how it is organized is not what it was when Roger Smith took over. Roger Smith would be lost. A few GM employees who post here could chime in on this. Many of the current product problems as Croc stated stem from Zarella. That is not an excuse - but a legacy that needs to take time to work out. Time that GM can not afford.

And if he is replaced tomorrow, you're right that nothing will change on March 19, what with it being a Sunday and all.  Or even on March 20.  But these changes are seen in terms of years.  And with Rick Wagoner we have got a mediocre record going back several years.

Of course years... and many of the structural issues are for the most part addressed. GM has been cutting billions out of their process for years now, under Wagoner.

Wagoner has two major issues to address, product and labor/retirees. Only by working with the UAW can that one get resolved. That could take time GM does not have working for them.

It's really hard to imagine GM doing much worse than they are doing right now.  GM needs change, and much of that change has to be a change in people.

That is where you need a history lesson. The period between 1985 - 1992 was a lot worse. That is not to say, they are not getting close. This time around though, GM is a lot leaner and has product in the pipeline. But the problem this time is GM does not have full control of one of the key issues that really ailes them.

The UAW and GM retirees????

[Ghost Dog]

Unless GM Divests Globally and returns the Capital to the U.S. operations its over.

GM Ceases to Exist.

[Guest buickman]

You Wagoner-haters simply fail to understand the way this industry works.  We are JUST NOW getting the products that were developed under Wagoner and Lutz.  Everything else was started under Zarella.  Cobalt is competitive, Lucerne is selling briskly, HHR is a hit, Solstice is a hit, the T900s are resounding hits...and of these, only the Solstice is a 100% Wagoner-Lutz effort.  Everything else was started under Zarella.

I am going to keep posing this question until I get good responses:

What product has been sub-par that Lutz and Wagoner had significant influence over?

I'm just dying to know...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SSR. Lucerne launch with constrained buckets, heated and cooled seats, and chromes. Lack of Cobalt coupes on launch. G6 drop still not out. Late intro on LaCrosse. Colorado a dud, Impala 5 years too late. Really any company can have their products knocked one way or the other so I replied to your question. The trouble isn't the products we have, it's what we don't have: Skylark, Century, Regal, LeSabre, Park Ave, Riviera, Roadmaster, Coupes, Wagons, attractive interiors etc...

The largest problem about product though is HOW IT'S MARKETED. Take the "Red Tag" "March Madness" and all the hairbrained, assinine, ridiculous, incompetent, irresponsible, foolish, unprofessional, stupid decisions (which I can fully pick apart one by one) and there you will find the main reason GM is going bust. Rick Wagoner is to blame and anyone who even whispers about defending the worst CEO in American Corporate history only makes themselves look like an imbecile.

Of no concern, Wagoner is gone before the Annual Meeting. The powers that be will diffuse the onslaught of negativism and criticism by axing one overdone turkey.

Buickman

Edited March 18, 2006 by buickman

[evok]

SSR. Lucerne launch with constrained buckets, heated and cooled seats, and chromes. Lack of Cobalt coupes on launch. G6 drop still not out. Late intro on LaCrosse. Colorado a dud, Impala 5 years too late. Really any company can have their products knocked one way or the other so I replied to your question. The trouble isn't the products we have, it's what we don't have: Skylark, Century, Regal, LeSabre, Park Ave, Riviera, Roadmaster, Coupes, Wagons, attractive interiors etc...

The largest problem about product though is HOW IT'S MARKETED. Take the "Red Tag" "March Madness" and all the hairbrained, assinine, ridiculous, incompetent, irresponsible, foolish, unprofessional, stupid decisions (which I can fully pick apart one by one) and there you will find the main reason GM is going bust. Rick Wagoner is to blame and anyone who even whispers about defending the worst CEO in American Corporate history only makes themselves look like an imbecile.

Of no concern, Wagoner is gone before the Annual Meeting. The powers that be will diffuse the onslaught of negativism and criticism by axing one overdone turkey.

Buickman

This imbecil still would like to know:

If Wagoner is replaced tomorrow, what will change? Who will replace him?

Edited March 18, 2006 by evok

[Northstar]

SSR. Lucerne launch with constrained buckets, heated and cooled seats, and chromes. Lack of Cobalt coupes on launch. G6 drop still not out. Late intro on LaCrosse. Colorado a dud, Impala 5 years too late. Really any company can have their products knocked one way or the other so I replied to your question. The trouble isn't the products we have, it's what we don't have: Skylark, Century, Regal, LeSabre, Park Ave, Riviera, Roadmaster, Coupes, Wagons, attractive interiors etc...

The largest problem about product though is HOW IT'S MARKETED. Take the "Red Tag" "March Madness" and all the hairbrained, assinine, ridiculous, incompetent, irresponsible, foolish, unprofessional, stupid decisions (which I can fully pick apart one by one) and there you will find the main reason GM is going bust. Rick Wagoner is to blame and anyone who even whispers about defending the worst CEO in American Corporate history only makes themselves look like an imbecile.

Of no concern, Wagoner is gone before the Annual Meeting. The powers that be will diffuse the onslaught of negativism and criticism by axing one overdone turkey.

Buickman

SSR? Lutz was hardly there for a year before the SSR came out - it was basically done when he arrived. Lucerne? Last I checked it was one of GM's and certainly Buick's most successful launch vehicles in a long time. Lack of Cobalt coupes? Sedans are the bulk of Cobalt sales, so why should they produce tons of coupes? You may have a point with the G6 convert, but the coupe and sedan are doing very well for Pontiac. Colorado was not done under Lutz. New Impala is a good product, and you can't replace vehicles every 1-2 years.

You making such claims makes you look like an imbecile. With your plan, we'd have the same &#036;h&#33;ty product but somehow market them so miraculously they sell better than the Accord and Camry combined!

[Flybrian]

The only botch with the Lucerne launch was the several-month lull between the last LeSabres leaving dealer lots and the first Lucernes arriving. But besides that...man...

[VenSeattle]

The 2005 LaCrosse and 2006 Lucerne launch delays were a result from preventing GM making an even greater mistake: coming out with the underwhelming, flawed, and "on time" 2004 Regal & 2005 LeSabre. The delay was minimal compared to what could have happened.

[VenSeattle]

If Wagoner is replaced tomorrow IMO this is what will change and there are 2 options:

1) Nothing - move symbolic and the BOD approved restructuring plan will go on as planned and the UAW, retirees and Street will know the situation is dire and are more likely to see that.

or

2) Move symbolic and all hell will break loose because the BOD approved restructuring plan will be expedited.

a - Product will not change, nor will timing from current plans.

b - The UAW question will go nuclear.

c - DPH gets hung out to dry.

d - Strike certain.

e - Red ink.........Chapter 11 all but certain.

f - Government steps in to force labor back to work.

g - Market share drops.

I'll have to agree 100% also.

[Guest buickman]

And another question that needs to be asked is:

If Wagoner is replaced tomorrow, what will change?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What happens when you bring in a new quarterback, pitcher, or coach? There is regime change, alterations in strategy and most importantly, LEADERSHIP! This time we must make sure there is accountability.

The first step I would take would be to clean house at VSSM.

Buickman

[LTB51]

You Wagoner-haters simply fail to understand the way this industry works.  We are JUST NOW getting the products that were developed under Wagoner and Lutz.  Everything else was started under Zarella.  Cobalt is competitive, Lucerne is selling briskly, HHR is a hit, Solstice is a hit, the T900s are resounding hits...and of these, only the Solstice is a 100% Wagoner-Lutz effort.  Everything else was started under Zarella.

I am going to keep posing this question until I get good responses:

What product has been sub-par that Lutz and Wagoner had significant influence over?

I'm just dying to know...

Cobalt is a dissappointment. It should have been the cavalier replacement 4 years ago. The replacement for the Cobalt should have come out next year. GM fell a generation behind with the too-long life of the Cavalier. We can only hope they don't try to get more than 5 years out of the Cobalt.

The new civic is already showing it up. In Feb, Cobalt sales were at ~14K (twice that of feb 2005) and Civic was already at ~25K. and I can only imagine what will happen when the new Corolla and Sentra are in the mix.

The cobalt is generally average (which isn't good enough), but there are some very strange things that Lutz (or whomever) should have corrected:

1) Why is there a strut instead of a prop to hold up the hood? No one would have questioned a car in this class having a prop. Wasted money that could have been used to make the interior less cheap looking (See below).

2) Same thing with the trunk... although I like the fact that I dont' have to worry about the hinges crushing my cargo, the opening of the trunk seemed small and akward. Two more struts required.

3) The door lock/unlock buttons are not meant to be teeny-weeny little pieces of plastic with nothing more than a slight line between the lock/unlock toggles. Use a prop on the hood and then use the extra money to buy good buttons... especially the buttons that are used regularly. The power window buttons show that they can make real buttons... why cheap out here?

4) I shouldn't have to lift the center storage to use the ebrake. I shouldn't have to give up center storage if I want an MT (I don't recall... is it even an option to have both?). That is just stupid. Don't we know better than that by now?

5) I test drove one, and the cloth on the doors ended before it made it under the plastic piece holding the power window buttons. I guess poor build quality can happen on any car, but still, this car was supposed to make a statment in this regard. (Both JD Powers and CR rate it average or below in quality/reliability.)

6) HVAC controls.... they shouldn't feel like they are off my crappy boombox from the 80's that I bought when I couldn't afford anything else. Use a prop, and then spend an extra dollar or two on better plastic.

7) Give me a clock separate from the multi-display. I shouldn't have to give up my clock when I want to display other information. Even a Kia Rio has a separate clock. Oh, and while I am on the subject, the display is horrible.... reminds me of a dot-matrix printer in a laser printer world. It might pass in this class (though others in the class don't have to suffer it), but why is this same poor display forced on the Malibu and the G6?

Rear leg room. It is very poor. Especially considering the Cobalt's external size is relatively large... where did all that space get wasted?

9) 4spd auto. Give it a 5spd. The fuel economy might then be comparable to other cars in the class.

You may argue that a lot of those things are minor. But they add up. And there are cars it is competing against that don't have these problems. As a result, the cobalt doesn't compare well. But the worst part is that they are all problems that there is no reason for.

Did Lutz or Wagoner think this was acceptable? Or was Lutz to busy worrying about some body cladding on a Pontiac? What do you think Toyota or Honda would do to an exec who allowed this to pass?

[Flybrian]

1) Why is there a strut instead of a prop to hold up the hood?  No one would have questioned a car in this class having a prop.  Wasted money that could have been used to make the interior less cheap looking (See below).

2) Same thing with the trunk... although I like the fact that I dont' have to worry about the hinges crushing my cargo, the opening of the trunk seemed small and akward.  Two more struts required. 

7) Give me a clock separate from the multi-display.  I shouldn't have to give up my clock when I want to display other information.   Even a Kia Rio has a separate clock.  Oh, and while I am on the subject, the display is horrible.... reminds me of a dot-matrix printer in a laser printer world.  It might pass in this class (though others in the class don't have to suffer it), but why is this same poor display forced on the Malibu and the G6?

The complaints do confuse me because they are the little details that add to the vehicle rather than detract from it. Your typical Korean car has a hood prop, hinged trunklid, and a seperate clock from a 1980 BetaMax.

Gas struts for the hood and decklid give the car a more upscale feel. There's nothing cheaper-looking than a hood-prop, IMO, and the struts in rear have the advantage you described of not interfering with baggage space. I don't understand the clock-related complaint. When you adjust the volume, frequency, input, etc, the clock display disappears for a few seconds and returns quickly thereafter. Since all digital clocks in cars are hr/min-based, what exactly are you losing here? I really don't understand that.

And again, I'd rather have that over the illegible clocks in Korean products. You want to talk about a poor display being forced on something ill-deserving, an Azera has that same mismatched &#036;h&#33;ty pea-green backlit clock a Rio does. Quite sad.

[z28luvr01]

I love the strut for the hood! My truck had the prop rod, and I can't tell you how many times I've rung my head while changing the oil. I'd like to think I've bought my last vehicle with a prop rod.

The trunk opening is rather smallish, but believe it or not, fold down the rear seat and you can slide a mountain bike in there no problem (after taking the front tire off). The trunk hinges are an excellent design that makes this smallish trunk opening able to swallow bigger things.

What radio were you looking at? On mine, the clock is on as long as the key isn't in the "off" position. And the bright blue display is nice and easy to read, only slightly less so when the sun is hitting it directly and I have sunglasses on.

I'll give you the rear legroom complaint. It's much less of an issue for me because I'm rather short and keep the seat up. If I were taller, I wouldn't carry anyone I didn't hate in the back seat.

RE: the cloth coming off the door panels. There's a TSB on it, and the fix is larger door pull cups. So far my car hasn't had this problem. I'll concede that this shouldn't have made it to the outside world, but GM has taken notice of it and provided a fix.

[Robert Hall]

The Cobalt seems like it would have been fine in 1995 or 2000. Typical GM, though, they always seem to be a generation or two behind the competition (at least in the mass market cars).

[z28luvr01]

IIRC, it was supposed to be out in the early '00s, but was sent back to the drawing board for one reason or another. I'm not sure why, though. Consequently we got the 2003 hack-job of a refresh for the Cavalier.

[LTB51]

The Malibu and G6 have unique interiors.  I think the only real commonalities are the steering wheel and radio unit.  The designs are very different.  See:

This is different:

This is different:

In general, the G6 and the Malibu interiors look very similar to me. What I see up there is the same general shape for everything, but with just a few things moved around and changed. Look at the coin holder(?) on the left and the buttons directly above. Same pieces, just moved slightly. Differnt vents. Slightly different transition on the dash.

I guess the point I am making is that the G6 concept interior looked so great... and then someone malibued it. If you ask me, it ruined the car.

[Northstar]

What happens when you bring in a new quarterback, pitcher, or coach? There is regime change, alterations in strategy and most importantly, LEADERSHIP! This time we must make sure there is accountability.

The first step I would take would be to clean house at VSSM.

Buickman

That's a terrible comparison. Of course a new star quaterback, pitcher, or coach is going to make a difference instantly, they get a chance to go out the next game and make the difference.

A new CEO would not be able to make any sort of difference before driving GM into brankruptcy. If a new CEO comes in and re-writes GM's future product lineup, it's only going to cause the current vehicles to get stale, lose more money, and put GM in worse shape than it is now. By the time any of this supposed great product would come out, GM would be dead. As is, the great product we're supposed to be getting will be here in time to save GM.

And, how do we know a new CEO isn't going to be Zarella part II?

[Guest buickman]

You're not getting it. The CEO shouldn't be concerned with product, that's for the VLEs, engineers, designers, production people and marketers to decide. The CEO should provide guidance and direction while demanding clear lines of responsibility and holding those in said positions fully accountable. Under Wagoner, failure is acceptable, you simply get transferred or put on special assignment. Lovejoy failed more than once and retired, John Smith was a disaster and was promoted, LaNaive is horrible and allowed to continue as long as he follows orders. They've always been so big it didn't seem to matter. Well it's come home to roost that Wag's Ways are unacceptable and doomed in the long run. He's had his long run and now we see the effects of poor leadership.

Buickman

[LTB51]

The complaints do confuse me because they are the little details that add to the vehicle rather than detract from it. Your typical Korean car has a hood prop, hinged trunklid, and a seperate clock from a 1980 BetaMax.

Gas struts for the hood and decklid give the car a more upscale feel. There's nothing cheaper-looking than a hood-prop, IMO, and the struts in rear have the advantage you described of not interfering with baggage space.

Hood struts are more upscale than props. But how many buyers would have looked at the Cobalt and said, "That's great.... but were is the hood strut?". Especially in this class?

I took note of it as a good feature. But then I got into the Cobalt and saw all the cheap touches on the inside. And my next thought was why did they waste the money on the strut that could have been put into the interior.... even something as inexpensive as good buttons/hvac controls? (My next thought after that was the episode of the Simpsons where Homer was so fat he couldn't push individual buttons on the phone!)

It is a very poor trade off, and in my opinion it shows some very questionable reasoning. Like the ebrake, it was almost like they created a problem that didn't need to exist.

As for the trunk, the baggage won't get crushed, but due to the design of the trunk there is no more space. The hinges (or something) are still there, they are just covered.

I don't understand the clock-related complaint. When you adjust the volume, frequency, input, etc, the clock display disappears for a few seconds and returns quickly thereafter. Since all digital clocks in cars are hr/min-based, what exactly are you losing here? I really don't understand that.

Maybe I am confusing the Cobalt with the G6 that I drove... but when I displayed other information, such as MPG, the clock was gone. I would like to display both.

And again, it is sad that GM's more upscale cars were saddled with this design.

And again, I'd rather have that over the illegible clocks in Korean products. You want to talk about a poor display being forced on something ill-deserving, an Azera has that same mismatched &#036;h&#33;ty pea-green backlit clock a Rio does. Quite sad.

Kia does seem to be the master of bad interiors. But that is what I expect from them. GM can do better, especially if they are going to re-use these parts for their higher-end vehicles. I'd rather they gave the cobalt a slightly better head unit rather than bringing the G6/malibu down.

Still, nice to see the MPG display and whatnot in a car of the Cobalt's class.

[edit]

Ah, I found a pciture of the trunk...

The hinges aren't in the way, but due to the location of the tires (or the shortness of the trunk) and the side overhangs of the trunk to hold the struts, there really doesn't seem to be much room gained. It may just be the picture, but I wonder if they didn't have to do what they did with the hinges as there wasn't room for conventional hinges.

Hmmm... I see that the carpet covering on the right side is coming off.

[/edit]

Edited March 19, 2006 by LTB51