Thoughts From A UAW Family Member

[Robert Hall]

I will disagree with that because I have seen new DTSs, Lexus GSs, and Grand Marquis with all of those things within the last 6 months.

Yes, but it's a small minority of fogeys that want that crap on their cars...not the majority of buyers.

[Robert Hall]

in all honesty a lot of it is too many folks who are all about 'brand' and just trying to be popular.  You can't tell me even half the bimmer drivers are auto enthusiasts.  They buy BMW like they buy Ralph Lauren.

True...I work with a couple of BMW owners that bought them for the brand image---they are in management now and felt they needed the image that their previous rides (Honda Element, Nissan Pathfinder) didn't have.

I on the other hand, drive a BMW because I'm a car enthusiast..same reason I'll probably buy another one eventually..

Edited March 20, 2006 by moltar

[ehaase]

And no, chrome bumpers, wire wheel covers, floaty ride, and padded vinyl tops are not what 'real Amurricuns' want.

This Amurricun wants most of those things. I don't know what I'll do when Ford drops the Panthers.

[91z4me]

Yes, but it's a small minority of fogeys that want that crap on their cars...not the majority of buyers.

But they are Americans who spend the money for the car and then add the money for the options. If people are willing to drop the coin, I say build it.

[soozi2u]

Well, strange things are happening at GMArlington plant. My husband is working 9 hours a day and every other Saturday. They are told that the demand for their vehichle is up so much that they cannot make enough! Also, June, I believe, is the month they are going to up the line time so they can make even more vehichles.

Also, GM relies on their retirees and their families to buy GM products. If they make wages sooooo low that, the employees and retirees cannot buy GM products, the company projections of sales could not depend on these sales.

Another thought: I am proud to be an American!! I will not buy a foreign made vehichle, whether made by an American company or not!! I always check to see where it was made before purchasing. Do you really think the foreign car manufacturing employees flock to buy an American made car? We are destroying our country and every platform it was created on! We should take care of our fellow country employees. Greed, by company management, has taken too many jobs from the working people of the United States. What type of employment will be left to our children and grandchildren? Think about it!!

[ellives]

Sorry but while I have compassion for your situation and the emotional aspects of it, the worldwide economy betrays the argument "buy American." This said, I do buy only GM products for the most part.

Your anger (along with the other stackholders and stockholders of GM) should be directed squarely at the board of directors. In the end, they have accepted mediocrity which has failed everyone associated with GM. This is medicrity of the products they've built and mediocrity of the management team they have in place. After all this I'm sure they're no worse off financially. They should be forced to buy and own large quantities of GM stock so they're properly motivated.

My 2 cents.

Well, strange things are happening at GMArlington plant.  My husband is working 9 hours a day and every other Saturday.  They are told that the demand for their vehichle is up so much that they cannot make enough!  Also, June, I believe, is the month they are going to up the line time so they can make even more vehichles. 

Also, GM relies on their retirees and their families to buy GM products.  If they make wages sooooo low that, the employees and retirees cannot buy GM products, the company projections of sales could not depend on these sales. 

Another thought:  I am proud to be an American!!  I will not buy a foreign made vehichle, whether made by an American company or not!!  I always check to see where it was made before purchasing.  Do you really think the foreign car manufacturing employees flock to buy an American made car?  We are destroying our country and every platform it was created on!  We should take care of our fellow country employees.  Greed, by company management, has taken too many jobs from the working people of the United States.  What type of employment will be left to our children and grandchildren?  Think about it!!

[Angry Dad]

All those that decry the virtues of free trade, shouldn't free trade be a two way street?

I'm all for competition but let's cut the crap, Japan is not a free trader not by any means, not even close and they admit it.

The auto industry is where it is hitting now. it has hit elsewhewere. It is amazing that GM and Ford are able to compete at any level. What's worse is thge pure lunacy and arrogance displayed by politicians giving tax breaks to these same companies that are here to cut the current tax payers incomes.

For oldtimers that remember the show Twilight Zone, remember the episode "To Serve Man", here's a synopsis and it parralels what Japan Inc is doing to this nation: http://members.cox.net/kaiotea/serveman.htm

[ellives]

Sources! Sources please! When you say "they admit it," where is this documented? WHERE are these supposed tax breaks documented?

How does this episode of Twilight Zone relate?

All those that decry the virtues of free trade, shouldn't free trade be a two way street?

I'm all for competition but let's cut the crap, Japan is not a free trader not by any means, not even close and they admit it.

The auto industry is where it is hitting now. it  has hit elsewhewere. It is amazing that GM and Ford are able to compete at any level. What's worse is thge pure lunacy and arrogance displayed by politicians giving tax breaks to these same companies that are here to cut the current tax payers incomes.

For oldtimers that remember the show Twilight Zone, remember the episode "To Serve Man",  here's a synopsis and it parralels what Japan Inc is doing to this nation:  http://members.cox.net/kaiotea/serveman.htm

[Intrepidation]

The government really needs to revamp the healthcare system, but with your idiotic president and his stupid adminitration (sorry Bush fans, but this is how I feel) he's too busy trying to blow crap up in the middle east, while all he does for America is tell the automakers that they need to be more efficient, yet won't do a damn thing to help. He's such a moron...but that's another story for another thread.

You UAW guys don't wanna give up the pay and benefits you have right now, which is understandable...but the bottom line is that GM doesn't have the money to supply you with that these days. Until GM is profitable again, you should consider taking the cuts until they're doing well again. One way to look at it is what's worse: Taking a pay cut for a while until things get better? Or keeping your pay until the company runs out of money and ceases to exist? Then no pay and no benefits.

I really don't mean to offend anyone (except maybe Bush) but that's just how I see it. O could be wrong, but yeah.

[ellives]

I'm curious how old you are. I suspect probably in your mid-20's.

I'm not a Bush fan either but it's not clear exactly what you'd have the government do to help GM. While Bush said the US is "addicted" to oil, I don't believe he said specifically the US automakers needs to be more efficient. He said they need to build cars that are "relevent." I'm sure this word was chosen by Mr. Rove to convey the message without specifying exactly what he means.

2008 can't come quickly enough for me. Luckily we won't have to make the choice again whether to put the Bush team back in office. I hope the citizenry can make a better choice the next time around. I'm quite sure this presidency will be seen in history as one of the worst. They've done nothing but lie and borrow us into bankrupcy.

I think you're being naive when you talk about "taking the cuts until they're doing well again." The issues GM is facing are not temporary issues. They are facing fundamental changes in the nature of the car business that are forcing them to make tough changes. All this said, what Bush should have said was the UAW needs to find a way to be relevent.

The government really needs to revamp the healthcare system, but with your idiotic president and his stupid adminitration (sorry Bush fans, but this is how I feel) he's too busy trying to blow crap up in the middle east, while all he does for America is tell the automakers that they need to be more efficient, yet won't do a damn thing to help. He's such a moron...but that's another story for another thread.

You UAW guys don't wanna give up the pay and benefits you have right now, which is understandable...but the bottom line is that GM doesn't have the money to supply you with that these days. Until GM is profitable again, you should consider taking the cuts until they're doing well again. One way to look at it is what's worse: Taking a pay cut for a while until things get better? Or keeping your pay until the company runs out of money and ceases to exist? Then no pay and no benefits.

I really don't mean to offend anyone (except maybe Bush) but that's just how I see it. O could be wrong, but yeah.

[Clownzilla]

Cadillac, you have to be able to see that the UAW is part of problem.

True........but they won't be when GM moves their production out of the country, then the true supporters of GM will survive and the "supporters" that use GM as a pinata will dissapate. I don't support unions AT ALL!!!! Here is a quick fun fact for you. I just got back from vacation in Las Vegas,

and the hotel I was staying at was hosting a giant union conventions with several different unions attending. You could tell who the union members were with their shirts and name tags. It shocked me (not really) to see these SAME PEOPLE gambling their money in slot machines, table games, and

sports bets (while some were smoking nice cigars). These are the SAME people who can't pay for any of their health care, and need to suck more and more money every year from struggeling parent companies every year. I say (as I said before) I will support ANY GM production outside the USA. It will happen, just wait and see.

[soozi2u]

Clownzilla,

You may HATE unions, but you have today because of them. My father helped form and totally supported unions. He use to tell stories of how the work force was treated before unions and how much it had improved since they were formed. The United States economy has strived because of unions. There is corruptions at all levels of businesses. No one is perfect! Did you ever stop to think that maybe (not saying it is wise) the money they were spending in Las Vegas was money they took out of their savings to spend while they were there. Don't you save money so you will have it for special things to do while on vacation? You cannot judge people by their cover!! All union workers hire in and agree to work for a company because of the wages and benefits they offer. You cannot blame the auto workers being upset over the promises they were told are now being broken. These people for the most part of spent 20-25 years working hard for these benefits, bodies now broken down, only to find out that the people of the United States and management of their company think they are no better than the dirt they walk on! When your job is sent overseas lets see how you feel!

[ellives]

Hi soozi2u --

I'm quite sure most here on this forum have compassion for GM's workers. Unfortunately, while things have improved under the stewardship of unions, today's economy is not your father's economy. In fact I'd dispute your statement that the US economy has thrived because of the unions. I encourage you to explain the basis for your statement.

I agree with you argument regarding judging people based on their outwards appearance, particularly in Las Vegas. The original poster's comments are meaningless as almost anybody can put on the airs of affluence.

I think your characterization of anyone comparing union workers to dirt is a little over the top. I'm sure this statement is based on some level of emotion. I think there's probably plenty of blame for the current situation at GM. Current and past management, the government stewards of the pension program, stockholders and even employees themselves all own some responsibility.

In the end, as I said, today's economy is not your father's economy. You've seen other posters indicate being happy at non-union companies and this tells us all that the non-union model can work. I personally believe the internet has had a huge amount to do with the current rapid globalization of the economy. Some would argue the improvement in communication brought by the internet in many ways eliminates the need for unions because it makes the labor market more efficient than was ever possible in the past.

Clownzilla,

You may HATE unions, but you have today because of them.  My father helped form and totally supported unions.  He use to tell stories of how the work force was treated before unions and how much it had improved since they were formed.  The United States economy has strived because of unions. There is corruptions at all levels of businesses.  No one is perfect!  Did you ever stop to think that maybe (not saying it is wise) the money they were spending in Las Vegas was money they took out of their savings to spend while they were there.  Don't you save money so you will have it for special things to do while on vacation?  You cannot judge people by their cover!!  All union workers hire in and agree to work for a company because of the wages and benefits they offer.  You cannot blame the auto workers being upset over the promises they were told are now being broken.  These people for the most part of spent 20-25 years working hard for these benefits, bodies now broken down, only to find out that the people of the United States and management of their company think they are no better than the dirt they walk on!  When your job is sent overseas lets see how you feel!

[The O.C.]

Clownzilla,

You may HATE unions, but you have today because of them.  My father helped form and totally supported unions.  He use to tell stories of how the work force was treated before unions and how much it had improved since they were formed.  The United States economy has strived because of unions. There is corruptions at all levels of businesses.  No one is perfect!  Did you ever stop to think that maybe (not saying it is wise) the money they were spending in Las Vegas was money they took out of their savings to spend while they were there.  Don't you save money so you will have it for special things to do while on vacation?  You cannot judge people by their cover!!  All union workers hire in and agree to work for a company because of the wages and benefits they offer.  You cannot blame the auto workers being upset over the promises they were told are now being broken.  These people for the most part of spent 20-25 years working hard for these benefits, bodies now broken down, only to find out that the people of the United States and management of their company think they are no better than the dirt they walk on!  When your job is sent overseas lets see how you feel!

Your comments are a somewhat narrow view of the union and it's overall impact on business.

My company is a multi-billion dollar company (automotive-related) and has been around since the mid-1940's.

It is not, and has never been, unionized.

It's by far one of the best-managed and highest-quality employers that I have ever worked for.

My quality-of-work life NOW is 100% better than what I ever enjoyed during my 11 years at General Motors......(for all of what the union may have ever done for GM employees over the decades....)