Thomas Friedman wants 7 dollar gas

[regfootball]

New York Times

some truth and some of his usual blather

[Blake Noble]

I couldn't see his point through all of the stupid. Totally Fried my brain, Man.

[CSpec]

This guy is starting to annoy me. He should really just move to China and join the Communist Party.

[Robert Hall]

Typical New Yorker..sees cars only in the context of cabs.

[regfootball]

i do agree the US needs to jump in with ten feet into electric. but this is just a veiled disguise for what he really wants, 7 dollar gas to keep you down.

an economist doesn't understand how crippling a huge gas tax increase would be on raising the good of all our transported goods?

[Robert Hall]

i do agree the US needs to jump in with ten feet into electric. but this is just a veiled disguise for what he really wants, 7 dollar gas to keep you down.

an economist doesn't understand how crippling a huge gas tax increase would be on raising the good of all our transported goods?

I suspect he is part of the 'trains good, planes bad' cabal that want to bring down the airline industry and the trucking industry in favor of expanded freight rail service...

[Drew Dowdell]

I suspect he is part of the 'trains good, planes bad' cabal that want to bring down the airline industry and the trucking industry in favor of expanded freight rail service...

There's no room for expanded freight rail service. Even if there were more intercity rail capacity to be found, the load/off load facilities were close to capacity in 2007.

[Robert Hall]

There's no room for expanded freight rail service. Even if there were more intercity rail capacity to be found, the load/off load facilities were close to capacity in 2007.

I would assume there would be expanded facilities built as part of all the high speed rail projects that are being talked about for the near future...

High speed passenger rail is the cover story for these projects, but the real motivation is high speed freight rail, according to the various conspiracy theories out there..

Edited September 30, 2010 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Z-06]

I would assume there would be expanded facilities built as part of all the high speed rail projects that are being talked about for the near future...

High speed passenger rail is the cover story for these projects, but the real motivation is high speed freight rail, according to the various conspiracy theories out there..

That is going to be one heck of an expensive project that will throw the demand for steel around the world in chaos, considering USA has the world's most expansive railroad system.

[loki]

That is going to be one heck of an expensive project that will throw the demand for steel around the world in chaos, considering USA has the world's most expansive railroad system.

maybe Rearden metal will be made for this purpose. lol!!

[balthazar]

Friedman makes $300K/yr, plus $40K for speaking gigs- think $7/gal gas is going to pinch him any ??

[CSpec]

I would assume there would be expanded facilities built as part of all the high speed rail projects that are being talked about for the near future...

High speed passenger rail is the cover story for these projects, but the real motivation is high speed freight rail, according to the various conspiracy theories out there..

I don't think so--the freight companies are vociferously fighting higher speed passenger service on their rails. However freight rail has been a profitable and very efficient industry since deregulation in 1980. Too bad the same can't be said for Amtrak.

[daves87rs]

This guy is starting to annoy me. He should really just move to China and join the Communist Party.

+1

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't think so--the freight companies are vociferously fighting additional Amtrak service on their rails. However freight rail has been a profitable and very efficient industry since deregulation in 1980. Too bad the same can't be said for Amtrak.

Fixed.... and you can make both of those statements with a straight face?

[CSpec]

Fixed.... and you can make both of those statements with a straight face?

Because the faster passenger trains would screw up the slower freight trains. And just because the government throws more money at Amtrak to increase service doesn't mean it's efficient or profitable. The real rail companies are successful because there is demand for their services and they respond to market forces.

[Drew Dowdell]

And one of the many reasons Amtrak is unsuccessful is that they get lowest priority on foreign company's tracks. Wherever Amtrak owns or controls the rails, it does astonishingly well, in some cases controlling 50% market share.

More people would be willing to use Amtrak, and pay higher fares than current, if the service were faster and more reliable. If those fees partially go towards giving the freight lines an incentive to prioritize passenger traffic over freight, then I'm all for it.

Right now, if there is some sort of a delay and the Capitol Limited gets stuck behind a 20mph coal drag, Norfolk Southern's attitude is "Too bad, so sad"

[daves87rs]

That's true around here....

[Satty]

I'm thrilled I finally get to use high speed rail. The wife and I are going to spend a weekend in NYC and since I dont want to fly or drive through New Jersey, Acela it is.

[SAmadei]

I'm thrilled I finally get to use high speed rail. The wife and I are going to spend a weekend in NYC and since I dont want to fly or drive through New Jersey, Acela it is.

The people of NJ appreciate your efforts to have one less tourist on the roads that we will have to swerve around.

Have you priced Acela yet? Its fairly expensive. The old Metroliner and Northeast Regional are cheaper and almost as fast if you are coming into NYC from the south. Its a shame the Metroliner was discontinued... it was only ~15-25 minutes slower than the Acela from DC to NYC, but a lot cheaper, IIRC. I think the Acela sells out, too, so you have to get your tickets ahead of time.

[Satty]

Yeah, we already reserved our tickets. Flying would have been a little cheaper and faster, but then we would've had to deal with the airport and all the associated headaches. Plus, I really wanted to take the Acela.

[smk4565]

He is a bit extreme, but has some valid points in there. We should raise the gas tax, that is far better than messing with CAFE. CAFE in a way regulate out freedom of choice, and it drives up the cost of cars. I'd rather see $5 a gallon and let consumers choose if they want to continue with their V8 (like I would) or switch to a hybrid to save money.

$7 a gallon is too high, it would shock an already fragile economy. But $4 a gallon people can afford, and it would discourage those that don't need an SUV and buy it only for image (or fake feeling of safety), to buy a car instead. The additional $1 a gallon in taxes can go to improving our pathetic rail system. Japan, Europe and China have had Mag-lev trains doing 180 mph for years, and we are still messing around with diesel trains at 45 mph. Of course it is a large undertaking to build Maglev across the USA, but there was a time when we had no interstate highways too and we built those.

And at the risk of getting political, I do agree with him about Afghanistan. Why spend money anywhere in the middle east, when that money could be used at home in the USA, and help the people that live here.

Above all though, higher gas prices are the only way to discourage gas consumption. CAFE ONLY LOOKS AT MILES PER GALLON NOT GALLONS CONSUMED. Higher gas price means people would drive less, try to live closer to where they work, combine errands into one trip, car-pool, etc. By reducing miles driven, you reduce wear and tear on the roads as well.

[CSpec]

Acela is fine, but as SAmadei mentioned it's very expensive. I only take it when someone else is paying. When I'm footing the bill I take Bolt Bus for $10.

[CSpec]

He is a bit extreme, but has some valid points in there. We should raise the gas tax, that is far better than messing with CAFE. CAFE in a way regulate out freedom of choice, and it drives up the cost of cars. I'd rather see $5 a gallon and let consumers choose if they want to continue with their V8 (like I would) or switch to a hybrid to save money.

If there is reason to think that gas consumption is inherently bad, then CAFE is an incredibly stupid solution. Is there any evidence that it reduces gas consumed?

[loki]

If there is reason to think that gas consumption is inherently bad, then CAFE is an incredibly stupid solution. Is there any evidence that it reduces gas consumed?

then the DOE has to be put in that category too.

[smk4565]

If there is reason to think that gas consumption is inherently bad, then CAFE is an incredibly stupid solution. Is there any evidence that it reduces gas consumed?

I don't think there is, that is why I don't think CAFE makes that much sense. Obviously more fuel efficient cars is a good thing, but people drive more miles than they used to. CAFE makes cars more efficient, gas stays cheap, people drive more, thus consuming more fuel. If gas was $5 a gallon, people would drive less, and thus burn less gas. Demand for electric cars or public transport would rise.

Personally, I hope gas prices do stay where they are because I like being able to drive a V8 car without going broke. But if it did go to $7 a gallon or more, I'd have to use public transport, change cars, and reduce the amount I drive.

[SAmadei]

If there is reason to think that gas consumption is inherently bad, then CAFE is an incredibly stupid solution. Is there any evidence that it reduces gas consumed?

I don't see where CAFE has done anything except create red tape and make it hard for new companies to enter the US marketplace.

ALL of the technology that drove fuel efficiency came about by competition, not CAFE. How effective is CAFE? Well, there are some cars 40 years old that can meet 2009 CAFE of 27.5mpg.

If anything, I think CAFE made things worse... by scaring the automakers into downsizing the larger cars and underpowering them, people fled to trucks and the SUV market was invented. The law of unintentional consequences chased people out of cars which could have been made more efficient and into trucks that eat more gas. Granted, competition still kept trucks in the same ballpark... but if you wanted ultimate power, it was easy to do an end around of CAFE by raising the GVWR.

Lutz sums it up right... "it was like trying to fight obesity by requiring tailors to make only small-sized clothes."

You know in the end, it'll likely be a kick in the head if someone figures out a easy way to create synthetic gasoline by sequestering CO/CO2.

[Drew Dowdell]

You know in the end, it'll likely be a kick in the head if someone figures out a easy way to create synthetic gasoline by sequestering CO/CO2.

You know, conceptually, it's not that difficult. The CO2 can be used to accelerate the growth of algae and kelp to be used in biofuel production. Additionally, since the CO2 tends to be warm when it's coming from whatever source it comes from, it helps the growth even further.

[loki]

You know in the end, it'll likely be a kick in the head if someone figures out a easy way to create synthetic gasoline by sequestering CO/CO2.

i saw that someone has made cleaner baking soda from stacks... can't be too much harder than that.

Edited October 3, 2010 by loki

[A Horse With No Name]

I suspect he is part of the 'trains good, planes bad' cabal that want to bring down the airline industry and the trucking industry in favor of expanded freight rail service...

Not sure why this needs to be an either or proposition....

You know, conceptually, it's not that difficult. The CO2 can be used to accelerate the growth of algae and kelp to be used in biofuel production. Additionally, since the CO2 tends to be warm when it's coming from whatever source it comes from, it helps the growth even further.

Conceptually, this is excellent. Gasoline can't be that hard to make from algae...we had a good jump on that back in the 1970's, before we gave up on the idea of energy independence.

then the DOE has to be put in that category too.

I disagree, but we can take that up on another Sunday in Politics when the wife isn't feeling like cuddling up on the couch....

[A Horse With No Name]

If there is reason to think that gas consumption is inherently bad, then CAFE is an incredibly stupid solution. Is there any evidence that it reduces gas consumed?

IMHO nothing wrong with using gas..I've burned my fair share and then some racing. Spending trillions and billions of dollars and dumping them into the sands in the middle east...that's another story. I would rather directly attack the idea of energy independence and let people drive whatever they want to.

Though I prefer small cars, I'll gladly let my neighbor drive an F150 or whatever he wants. And the same CAFE laws can make fuel efficient fun cars I like (Cobalt SS, Miata, GTI, et al) illegal to produce...or possibly even own. So deal with energy independence, please.

Friedman makes $300K/yr, plus $40K for speaking gigs- think $7/gal gas is going to pinch him any ??

Bingo...we have a winner!

[regfootball]

that does seem to happen........and you are left to wonder why

[regfootball]

IMHO nothing wrong with using gas..I've burned my fair share and then some racing. Spending trillions and billions of dollars and dumping them into the sands in the middle east...that's another story. I would rather directly attack the idea of energy independence and let people drive whatever they want to.

Though I prefer small cars, I'll gladly let my neighbor drive an F150 or whatever he wants. And the same CAFE laws can make fuel efficient fun cars I like (Cobalt SS, Miata, GTI, et al) illegal to produce...or possibly even own. So deal with energy independence, please.

Bingo...we have a winner!

the energy independence is the single biggest issue. But now we are under the hold of the oil cartel, and our subjugation and being held hostage in this way really is fine with our politicos, it really helps with the next step that is weakening American political independence and our money so in one fell swoop sooner than we all think we are forced to relinquish ourselves into the new world order, without even taking us to war. I am surprised that they have not started pushing for us to lose our food independence at this point.

clearly any government like ours that wants us to be held hostage by other nations on energy and money has to have already signed off on selling America off for whatever gain is going to whoever gets it.

cap and trade, value added tax, overfunded ponzi style national healthcare, mandatory government retirement contributions, in the UK they even want to garnish your paychecks first....

The UK's tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer.

UK Proposes All Paychecks Go to the State First

Edited October 3, 2010 by regfootball

[A Horse With No Name]

Ya know reg...I am fairly progressive, or even downright liberal. but what the UK wants to do seems downright diabolical.

[regfootball]

He is a bit extreme, but has some valid points in there. We should raise the gas tax, that is far better than messing with CAFE. CAFE in a way regulate out freedom of choice, and it drives up the cost of cars. I'd rather see $5 a gallon and let consumers choose if they want to continue with their V8 (like I would) or switch to a hybrid to save money.

$7 a gallon is too high, it would shock an already fragile economy. But $4 a gallon people can afford, and it would discourage those that don't need an SUV and buy it only for image (or fake feeling of safety), to buy a car instead. The additional $1 a gallon in taxes can go to improving our pathetic rail system. Japan, Europe and China have had Mag-lev trains doing 180 mph for years, and we are still messing around with diesel trains at 45 mph. Of course it is a large undertaking to build Maglev across the USA, but there was a time when we had no interstate highways too and we built those.

And at the risk of getting political, I do agree with him about Afghanistan. Why spend money anywhere in the middle east, when that money could be used at home in the USA, and help the people that live here.

Above all though, higher gas prices are the only way to discourage gas consumption. CAFE ONLY LOOKS AT MILES PER GALLON NOT GALLONS CONSUMED. Higher gas price means people would drive less, try to live closer to where they work, combine errands into one trip, car-pool, etc. By reducing miles driven, you reduce wear and tear on the roads as well.

we've seen what happens to the economy when the automotive sector goes in the tank, 4 dollar gas ushered in the crash. the auto sector paid for it and look at the bedlam an even worse auto sector would have cause.

and perhaps it kept the green bleeders in check to see the fail.......'saving the world' also means less money in the tax coffers when people do not buy gas, and do not buy CARS.

remember, that 30,000 dollar car purchase pumps a LOT of money into the government. People bitch about sales tax on clothing and stuff but they don't even consider that they probably spend almost as much on vehicle taxes as they do on general sales taxes. and that tit is one the government wants you to keep sucking. so they have to create an environment where you still buy cars of any kind. so they promote the 30,000 dollar four cylinder cars now instead of the 30,000 SUV's.

I am literally shocked that there is no national sales tax on automobiles. the feds would desperately love to tax you on that.

[regfootball]

Ya know reg...I am fairly progressive, or even downright liberal. but what the UK wants to do seems downright diabolical.

it's what i like to call 'crossing the line'.

and hey "Europe is gonna do it so it's gotta be what we should do, right"?

I thought we formed our own country to get away from Europe but so oddly so many people today seem to want us to go back in that direction.

well whoever controls our energy and our money will ultimately be in charge anyways. they just want to up our tax rate now so we are up and running to the borg's rate of taxation when we are assumed......

Edited October 3, 2010 by regfootball

[loki]

UK Proposes All Paychecks Go to the State First

we do that now, it's just that they haven't chosen to take it all from you yet. all they have to do is eliminate tax forms and then let the tax rates float according to their whims.

[Camino LS6]

I am so sick of manipulative and punitive notions being endorsed for public polcy status.

It's just wrong.

And anti-freedom.

[SAmadei]

the energy independence is the single biggest issue. But now we are under the hold of the oil cartel,

We're at the hold of supply and demand, not an oil cartel. We get most of our imported oil from Canada and Mexico, not OPEC. And even most of our OPEC oil comes from South America, not the middle east. We can buy all our oil from Canada or Mexico... but then we pay more. But the problem with supply and demand means that if OPEC ups the price... demand goes up for non-OPEC sources and those prices go up.... including the oil that comes from home. So even if we don't us ONE DROP of OPEC oil or imported oil... they still have an effect on price. And always will... until they have no oil left to sell.

So, I consider Oil Dependence to be pretty close to a myth.

Personally, I feel oil is a dirty industry overall... and I'd rather see us leave as much of the byproduct pollution in other countries as possible. I would also like it to be a case where we use our oil last... thats why we have a reserve... for national security. If oil dependence is such a security issue... what is Europe going to do? Most of the big European countries import nearly all of their oil. If that is cut off... well, we know they aren't just going to crumble. They have some other sources of energy... but they will just cope. Just like we would if all of our oil supplies were yanked.

The trouble here is that we have three problems fighting it out here. People want to end this supposed oil dependence... while not drilling in ANWR (or the Gulf of Mexico now)... by using technology that will not be feasible for years, if not decades. Well, I guess all this smokescreens the real problems of this country... a bunch of greedy dolts robbing the bank while our economy burns.

[ocnblu]

I love a good gasoline or diesel-burning engine. EV's are a bait and switch. We're still paying to fuel an EV with higher power bills, more power plants and their attendant pollution. It's all BS, this electric vehicle push. Plus, the infrastructure is decades away from matching our petroleum-based personal transportation system.

Edited October 3, 2010 by ocnblu

[regfootball]

If you buy any theory that says 'don't put all your eggs in one basket', you'll probably want a future vehicle that can run on gas and electric, plug in or be hybrid, even ethanol too. If the $h! comes down and your car is gas only, you're a slave to gas. If your car is EV only, the utilities co is coming after you. At least if your vehicle has energy DIVERSITY, then you at least have some options. Hybrids and EV's are bunk to a point, but you have to admit, it gives oil some competition (until all the oil companies own utilities at least).

[SAmadei]

If you buy any theory that says 'don't put all your eggs in one basket', you'll probably want a future vehicle that can run on gas and electric, plug in or be hybrid, even ethanol too. If the $h! comes down and your car is gas only, you're a slave to gas.

Well, we had that... in the days of carbs, at least. A gasoline powered engine can easily be set up to run on propane, natural gas, ethanol or even woodgas in a time of emergency.

Unfortunately, if your car is fuel injected, I'm sure you have a much harder time outfitting it, as you need to fight the computer the whole way.