Changes ...

[Blake Noble]

Yes, that's a Sabbath reference.

Here's one change I made just 15 minutes ago. HD Radio is the shit.

The Hurst T-handle shift knob also improved the throw of the shifter over that pathetic leather-covered billard ball.

Sorry for the low-res pic. My iPhone is only a 3GS (still better than the 4 IMHO).

Edited September 26, 2010 by whiteknight

[A Horse With No Name]

Awesome!

[Intrepidation]

Now change the intake gasket.

[A Horse With No Name]

He'll get there...working on your own car is fun....

[Blake Noble]

Now change the intake gasket.

One step at a time. I'm gradually building up my confidence on working on this car. I may also get a hand in doing that job as well. The next few weeks will hold more on the progress of this.

My next project is going to be ditching the dingy old cloth seats for some nice leather ones and swapping the taillights out for a set of '93 - '96 style ones.

Also not to be forgotten:

More on this as progress develops.

Edited September 26, 2010 by whiteknight

[A Horse With No Name]

Small changes like DF did with his car really add up....DF has inspired me to keep the Miata and do some things with it....

[Blake Noble]

Small changes like DF did with his car really add up....DF has inspired me to keep the Miata and do some things with it....

Agreed.

I had some plans for this car when I bought it, so why not act on them?

Things are slowly making a turnaround for me personally. I'm making excellent grades in class, I've managed to dig up some extra cash to spend automotive-wise, and in other news I found a solution for my home recording problems (maybe now I can make some serious tunes that people will actually, you know, listen to lol).

[Intrepidation]

The mod bug: it's contagious.

It makes it more than just a car, it makes it your car.

[SAmadei]

One step at a time. I'm gradually building up my confidence on working on this car. I may also get a hand in doing that job as well. The next few weeks will hold more on the progress of this.

Well, you're moving in the right direction... but I hope the intake gasket waits for you... because a few weeks is a long time when you are driving around with milkshake in the crankcase.

Have you changed the oil lately? At least doing that will remove some of the possible contamination. I imagine changing the oil daily would delay your need to change the intake gasket indefinitely.

[Blake Noble]

The mod bug: it's contagious.

It makes it more than just a car, it makes it your car.

Oh yes.

And everything I want to do is right within my reach, provided the yard I get my new seats from lets me make a swap (because what else am I going to do with the current interior after I swap everything out?) and maybe pay a slight difference between cloth and leather with some change.

I'll be stuck with this car for a few years to come, might as well make it special.

I'm also going to just work my way from the inside out and (maybe) back inside with this car. Knock the interior out, dress the exterior up, and tend to what the engine may need.

I don't think I'll go for a set of YearOne's 18" Z/28 reissues. Instead, I think a set of chrome Z06 wheels and tires would look excellent and I could snag a set for under $400 bucks including rubber.

Well, you're moving in the right direction... but I hope the intake gasket waits for you... because a few weeks is a long time when you are driving around with milkshake in the crankcase.

Have you changed the oil lately? At least doing that will remove some of the possible contamination. I imagine changing the oil daily would delay your need to change the intake gasket indefinitely.

I changed the oil a few days ago and the old oil was starting to finally look like dirty engine oil. I didn't really see any of the previous milkiness anymore. Honestly, I really don't know what's going on here. When I brought it home from Jack Burford, oil pressure was sporadically all over the gauge and the engine temprature would reach 210 to 220. Now the oil pressure hangs around 60 and I don't see the temp gauge moving beyond 180.

I mentioned that I might be getting a hand in all of this, well, someone in the family knows a guy who is a hell of a body man and mechanic. He'll be assessing the level of damage done to the Cutty's bad paint job and let me know if wet-sanding, buffing, and actually clear coating the car will correct anything. I'll also have him give me a final opinion on the Camaro as well.

Edited September 27, 2010 by whiteknight

[Drew Dowdell]

Which car is this? I haven't been reading the WhiteknightFleetWiki lately....

[Blake Noble]

The 1998 Big Old Black (Less Of A) POS That I Overpaid For.

It's a Camaro.

It could really stand a good hand-washing before the weather gets too cold. I'll give it a complete clean up when I switch the seats and door panels out.

Edited September 27, 2010 by whiteknight

[Blake Noble]

To illustrate the difference that the earlier style taillights make:

Now, I've already sorted out how I'll get my new rims for basically nothing. I have a spare TH350R laying around that came out of my Regal. I'm going to load it up and take it here on the last weekend of The Cruise: http://www.somernitescruise.com/october.html

I can always find something awesome at the swap meets there. I also need front lap buckles for the Olds, so I'm going to try to knock-out two birds with one stone here. I did go one weekend previously (no photos, sorry ... and Ben Jones was there too, for those of you who might would have wanted to know; maybe I'll snap a few pics do this time) and found a set of basic C5 'Vette rims for $275, so ...

[SAmadei]

To illustrate the difference that the earlier style taillights make:

I really never cared for either set of Camaro lights. I guess I prefer the newer ones... but I would need to 'red out' the ambers. I hate amber signals... I'd like to red out the Bonneville's ambers.

_IF_ I had a 4th gen Camaro, I would look at an aftermarket LED set, darkish tint or some creative painting. Keep in mind, I usually prefer taillights as GM intended (I guess that's why I prefer Firebirds) .

The early Camaro lights just have a reverse bulb in the white part, right? Or is there a amber turn signal bulb hiding in there?

[Blake Noble]

I really never cared for either set of Camaro lights. I guess I prefer the newer ones... but I would need to 'red out' the ambers. I hate amber signals... I'd like to red out the Bonneville's ambers.

I don't care for amber lenses on a car either.

The '97 and up taillights were a real step backward from the '93 - '96 ones. The earlier 4th gen tails looked cleaner and had better flow with the rear cutlines. Adding the amber section for '97 and on just screwed things up.

_IF_ I had a 4th gen Camaro, I would look at an aftermarket LED set, darkish tint or some creative painting. Keep in mind, I usually prefer taillights as GM intended (I guess that's why I prefer Firebirds).

I do agree the Firebird had a better ass than the Camaro, but anyway the key here is to make effective modifications without spending a whole lot of cash. Plus, this mod I want to do is subtle, simple, and it should be cheap which is why I really like the idea. If I can't find a decent set of early 4th gen tails tomorrow, or if prices are just way too high, I might see what other options are out there and hold off for a bit.

The early Camaro lights just have a reverse bulb in the white part, right? Or is there a amber turn signal bulb hiding in there?

There's a turn signal bulb hiding in there somewhere in the clear section, I'm sure. I do know the sockets on the earlier taillight lenses do require very light modification to fit the later style bulbs.

Edited September 27, 2010 by whiteknight

[SAmadei]

There's a turn signal bulb hiding in there somewhere in the clear section, I'm sure. I do know the sockets on the earlier taillight lenses do require very light modification to fit the later style bulbs.

Thats always nice... then you can just swap out the 2057A for 2057Rs...

[Cory Wolfe]

NOS-ify that bitch.

[Blake Noble]

NOS-ify that bitch.

Well, I know I'm not buying those headlights or that grille now.

Seriously though, opening up the bottom-breather grille is something I need to do as long as I keep the 3.8 in this car. The stock fascia/grille insert really chokes off some of the cool airflow to the engine (and 3.8 cars need all of the cool air they can get, especially near the back of the engine where the coil packs are).

I really like the Tom Henry SS grille insert. It's a variation on the billet grille theme, yes, but it's black:

If you'll notice, the front bumper still reads "Camaro" behind whatever fascia insert you have. I really think GM started to release the car without that dorky stock plastic insert but changed their mind at the last minute.

I'm also a fan of what SLP makes:

I think you'll get slightly less airflow here, but even still it'll be more versus the stock one.

Regarding headlights, I seriously do not like those headlights NOS had on his car. Not because he had them, no.

My main beef here is that they are a three-element design that looks, well, awkward. I personally think this set will be the way I'll go:

It's a clean, two-element design with outboard LEDs that really works with the shape of the headlamps. For this set, I'll have to modify some wiring, so I'm not too sure about buying these particular examples. But whatever replaces the yellow, dull stock lamps will be a black, two-element design.

Edited September 27, 2010 by whiteknight

[Drew Dowdell]

oh dear... not another angel eyes conversion....

I wonder if I can get angel eyes for my '81 Toronado

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I really never cared for either set of Camaro lights. I guess I prefer the newer ones... but I would need to 'red out' the ambers. I hate amber signals... I'd like to red out the Bonneville's ambers.

_IF_ I had a 4th gen Camaro, I would look at an aftermarket LED set, darkish tint or some creative painting. Keep in mind, I usually prefer taillights as GM intended (I guess that's why I prefer Firebirds) .

The early Camaro lights just have a reverse bulb in the white part, right? Or is there a amber turn signal bulb hiding in there?

Yes, the early Camaros only have a reverse bulb behind the white lens. However, a few companies make LED conversions for them that double as n amber turn signal. I've actually thought about putting a conversion on my '68. I like amber turn signals in the rear and I've invested a lot of time and money into my car, so making it safer and less accident prone sounds good to me. Plus the conversions are the best of both worlds; they look completely stock until somone flips the turn signal on an they light up amber.

Edited September 27, 2010 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I don't care for amber lenses on a car either.

The '97 and up taillights were a real step backward from the '93 - '96 ones. The earlier 4th gen tails looked cleaner and had better flow with the rear cutlines. Adding the amber section for '97 and on just screwed things up.

I do agree the Firebird had a better ass than the Camaro, but anyway the key here is to make effective modifications without spending a whole lot of cash. Plus, this mod I want to do is subtle, simple, and it should be cheap which is why I really like the idea. If I can't find a decent set of early 4th gen tails tomorrow, or if prices are just way too high, I might see what other options are out there and hold off for a bit.

There's a turn signal bulb hiding in there somewhere in the clear section, I'm sure. I do know the sockets on the earlier taillight lenses do require very light modification to fit the later style bulbs.

I too am a fan of subtle mods that make a big difference. IMO, a good mod should look stock in finish and execution as if the part came from the factory all along.

[Blake Noble]

oh dear... not another angel eyes conversion....

I know, I know. That's all that's really out there for the F4 Camaro, though. Even the ones on NOS's car have a halo/angel eye ring around the middle element.

I wonder if I can get angel eyes for my '81 Toronado

You shouldn't have asked. No, really. You shouldn't have.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1976-1985-Oldsmobile-Toronado-Halo-Diamond-Headlight-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem414ff229d9QQitemZ280514144729QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

They're $20 for a set of 2.

Edited September 27, 2010 by whiteknight

[Drew Dowdell]

*clicks buy-it-now

[Blake Noble]

I told you you shouldn't have asked.

I also found something out about my car earlier. It is equipped with ASR (Camarospeak for "traction control"), but no ASR off switch oddly enough. As it turns out, my car already has the module that plugs into the off switch in it (noticed it yesterday when I pulled off the IP bezel) behind a plastic switch delete blank next to the fog light switch. I'd like to be able to turn it off should I want to and it's a simple modification that will take 10 minutes to do.

Yes, the early Camaros only have a reverse bulb behind the white lens.

Are we talking F1 or F4 here? The early F4 taillights do have a turn signal bulb in them (not amber), however it isn't in the clear section like I thought.

I started looking at aftermarket options for the F4 and they all pretty much, well, suck. You have a choice between cliche ricerboy Alteeza-style asslamps or poorly executed, hack up your wiring harness LED ones. I think the '93 to '96 ones are really my best option here.

However, a few companies make LED conversions for them that double as n amber turn signal. I've actually thought about putting a conversion on my '68. I like amber turn signals in the rear and I've invested a lot of time and money into my car, so making it safer and less accident prone sounds good to me. Plus the conversions are the best of both worlds; they look completely stock until somone flips the turn signal on an they light up amber.

Like you said, a good mod should look it might have came factory on the car. I like the sound of that mod for your F1.

I'd like to go with a Hurst-style theme for my car ... hmmmm ...

[Blake Noble]

Look at the following picture. See if you can spot the subtle mod that made me run out and quickly to the same to my car.

Edited September 28, 2010 by whiteknight

[Intrepidation]

It's not really angel eyes if they're square.

Angel eyes can look good. It's one of the few aftermarket things that look aftermarket that I like.

Intrepids don't have much for aftermarket either. They have the smoked versions of the stick headlights, the ones pictured, which are called Spyders in black or chrome, and a new brand which recently came out, but they are also halo headlights.

We have nothing for tail lights though. Only thing you can do is tint them. I'd be happy if there was a jeweled version of the sock design...but nope.

[Blake Noble]

It's not really angel eyes if they're square.

Well now we have to make up a name for them.

Angel eyes can look good. It's one of the few aftermarket things that look aftermarket that I like.

Honestly, I agree. I really don't have any real problem with them provided the execution is carried out cleanly and correctly.

Intrepids don't have much for aftermarket either. They have the smoked versions of the stick headlights, the ones pictured, which are called Spyders in black or chrome, and a new brand which recently came out, but they are also halo headlights.

I actually think those look better than what's out there for the Camaro. I think a set would (obviously) look nice in your car.

We have nothing for tail lights though. Only thing you can do is tint them. I'd be happy if there was a jeweled version of the sock design...but nope.

I wouldn't mind a jeweled set of Camaro taillights personally. Or a simple, heavily Chevrolet-inspired two element design.

I did a little research and simply installing the ASR switch won't magically give me traction control. My wiring harness is all set up for it, but lacks the correct sensors and computer controls.

Edited September 28, 2010 by whiteknight

[Intrepidation]

I may go for the chrome Spyders since I think that the black Spyders would get lost in fairly dark color of my car. I have plenty of time to decide though.

[Blake Noble]

I checked out the Tom Henry SS again and noticed something different about the gauge cluster:

Here's something I long suspected but didn't have any confirmation of: the F4 Pontiac Firebird and '97 and up Chevrolet Camaro gauge clusters are exactly the same except for the overlays and the Bird cluster has a bezel. However, I don't think the bezel can simply be removed from the cluster, so that requires an entire cluster swap. Hmmmm ... I really like that bezel. It really makes the gauge cluster look more complete versus the Camaro's. I'm hoping Wednesday will be interior/junkyard day, so I'll see if the bezel can be popped off.

Edited September 28, 2010 by whiteknight

[Blake Noble]

I may go for the chrome Spyders since I think that the black Spyders would get lost in fairly dark color of my car. I have plenty of time to decide though.

Chrome would work too.

I don't know why I'm leaning to black housings. I guess I want more of a seamless appearance to the exterior of the car while keeping the look close to factory. That might be a little hard to pull off in some respects, but I guess I'm getting ready to find out.

[Intrepidation]

Been there done that.

[Blake Noble]

Any tips on making the odometer read the correct amount of mileage if I swap clusters?

[Intrepidation]

Well, its a newer car with an electronic odometer, so if its like an LH car, the mileage is stored inside the BCM, not the cluster. Just plug and play.

All I had to do was change the lenses, since the Concorde's plastic lens is a different shape, the cluster itself is the same.

One thing I will say is that, in LH cars at least, clusters that came from cars with features like ABS will have the warning light on when installed in cars without. If that's the case you have to have a dealer reprogram the cluster....which for a Chrysler product is a 15 minute process with a DRB III tool. Of course the tech may not know what you're talking about. I know guys who have had to bring in the instructions how to do it so the tech can.

[Cory Wolfe]

I can't speak for GM's, but with VW's, we get use the VAG-com.

[Blake Noble]

Well, its a newer car with an electronic odometer, so if its like an LH car, the mileage is stored inside the BCM, not the cluster. Just plug and play.

Well that's good news.

I do remember reading about cars with cluster swaps, though, to find out that the mileage didn't read correctly after the mod was performed. I'll get one and try it out for good measure. Of course, I need new overlays to go with the new cluster. The stock Pontiac ones won't mesh too well with the rest of the interior, neither will the backlighting.

All I had to do was change the lenses, since the Concorde's plastic lens is a different shape, the cluster itself is the same.

I think the lenses are the same shape here, so this may actually a simple drop in mod. Awesome.

On a semi-related note, I don't know if you can see it or, but apparently the '90 Fiero prototype also shares its gauge cluster with the '93 - '96 Firebird:

Seriously. From what I can see, it's exactly the same without any changes.

One thing I will say is that, in LH cars at least, clusters that came from cars with features like ABS will have the warning light on when installed in cars without. If that's the case you have to have a dealer reprogram the cluster....which for a Chrysler product is a 15 minute process with a DRB III tool. Of course the tech may not know what you're talking about. I know guys who have had to bring in the instructions how to do it so the tech can.

Interesting ...

I can't speak for GM's, but with VW's, we get use the VAG-com.

Wonder if it's from the makers of the Shake Weight and something that rhymes with meshfright?

Edited September 28, 2010 by whiteknight

[Intrepidation]

Speaking of Fieros, I once saw an `88 Fiero GT on ebay with a gen 4 Firebird dash swapped into it. Big improvement.

[daves87rs]

I'm liking the changes...

[Blake Noble]

Well, DF, it seems the BCM doesn't store odometer data on F-Body cars. It is in the cluster, according to a guy on CZ28 that screws around with them:

Oh and yes i forgot to mention mileage is stored in the cluster not the computer.

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=487498

However, that same guy said he bought a '98 Firebird cluster just for the bezel, so I guess it does come out of the assembly. I'll just go this route and get the lens for good measure, just in case the Camaro gauges do not clear the bezel (I don't see why it wouldn't but you never know).

I also discovered more info. Whatever overlays I buy need to be for a '98 year model cluster specifically due to differences in gauge readouts ('98's temp gauge started reading out at 160, '99 and beyond started at 100 for some retarded reason).

Edited September 28, 2010 by whiteknight

[Intrepidation]

Well that sucks. Good old GM I guess. Mileage stored in the BCM FTW!

[Blake Noble]

Well that sucks. Good old GM I guess. Mileage stored in the BCM FTW!

Exactly. Good old, GM.

The odometer can be removed and swapped out between clusters, but that's too much hassle for what it's worth IMHO. I'd rather just buy what I need and move on. Plus, it'll save a few bucks that I can use for some real floormats and not these cheap, flimsy $10 dollar department store specials I currently have.

Edited September 28, 2010 by whiteknight

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I told you you shouldn't have asked.

Are we talking F1 or F4 here? The early F4 taillights do have a turn signal bulb in them (not amber), however it isn't in the clear section like I thought.

Oh, for some reason I thought we were talking F1. My bad...

I agree that the stock 93-96 lamps are the best option. Camaros look SO trashy with altezzas.

[Blake Noble]

Well, found out I can somehow change the odometer LED to a blue one and have the display blue instead of red to match the backlighting of the Kenwood receiver. Oh so tempting. I wonder how hard it is ... ?

EDIT: Found out the Firebird bezel and lens are actually one piece:

That's how it'll look on my cluster. Very nice. The way GM should have made it.

Edited September 28, 2010 by whiteknight

[Intrepidation]

Ugh, hopefully easier than LH clusters. I know people have changed the color of the lighting, but its pretty involved. One of those mods I'll probably skip over, even though I'd love ice blue lighting.

[Blake Noble]

Oh, for some reason I thought we were talking F1. My bad...

It's all good.

I agree that the stock 93-96 lamps are the best option. Camaros look SO trashy with altezzas.

Agreed. Honestly, any car looks trashy with Altezzas. I can't think of one car that can pull that look off, including the car that originally started the whole trend (the Toyota Altezza/Lexus IS).

[Blake Noble]

Ugh, hopefully easier than LH clusters. I know people have changed the color of the lighting, but its pretty involved. One of those mods I'll probably skip over, even though I'd love ice blue lighting.

From what I'm reading, the lighting on the '97 and up clusters is reasonable to access. I'm continuing to read up on it. Blue back lighting is what the gauge cluster needs. Red is definitely a Pontiac color and doesn't belong in a Camaro.

[Intrepidation]

Well getting at the lights is easy. But wiring up LEDs in place of bulbs requires resistors and other electrical witchcraft I'm not that familiar with.

[Blake Noble]

Well getting at the lights is easy. But wiring up LEDs in place of bulbs requires resistors and other electrical witchcraft I'm not that familiar with.

Hmmm ... wonder if there are colored equivalents of the stock bulbs out there. I'm mainly interested in just changing the back lighting, not changing the bulbs to LEDs (except for the odometer where I would have to swap it out).

Maybe I'll skip on this for a while and just worry about getting the bezel on there.

[SAmadei]

Well now we have to make up a name for them.

Urkel Eyes?

So reading through the rest of the thread today, I think its a shame that GM didn't put lights on the intake gasket... then you could fix that while changing the color of the lights. ;-)

[Blake Noble]

Urkel Eyes?

Hmmm ... square, kind of nerdy, living under the illusion they're hip ... this might be a winner.

So reading through the rest of the thread today, I think its a shame that GM didn't put lights on the intake gasket... then you could fix that while changing the color of the lights. ;-)

I know, I know. Don't think I forgot so soon. Like I said, I'll get another opinion on this hopefully this weekend. I'm starting to doubt it's as bad as the dealer made it out to be. If it turns out to be a very, very small leak in the gasket, I'll send a stop-leak tablet to do the job via radiator as a temporary measure.

Edited September 28, 2010 by whiteknight

[Blake Noble]

Well, today's search for new seats and a lens/bezel turned out to be futile.

Guess I'll keep checking around.