Searching for a Car...

[NOS2006]

As some of you may have read, I'm looking to purchase a newer (not necessarily brand new) car within the near future (say... by the new year). I was looking at '08+ Saab 9-3s, but I took one for a test drive today. Beautiful car inside and out, sufficient power, and it seemed to handle pretty good. However, it just felt like a car. It didn't give me any type of special feeling, it was just a ride. I want more than that.. something that I get into and it just feels special. The Camaro SS I drove a few weeks ago felt more "special," but it still had a terrible feeling interior and wasn't as amazing as I had expected. My friend's S2000, however, had a very appropriate feel to it.

So, my criteria is relatively good gas mileage (was looking at E46 M3s, but 23 MPG highway doesn't cut it), manual transmission, $25k or less, and it must have a sunroof. Better looking cars with better quality interiors will take priority, but I'm very open to suggestions. It doesn't have to be a sports car, and it doesn't have to be a luxury car. What I'm looking for is something like an M3 (as I'm assuming), a really nice all-around performer but with better MPGs.

[intrigued]

If you want new you could probably swing a minimally optioned 2011 mustang premium for that price. 305 hp 31 mpg highway and 0-60 in 5.1 (motor trend test drive with 3.31 gears.) It has a really slick 6 speed getrag manual standard has a much nicer interior then the camaro. The premo trim comes with the upgraded leather interior, Ford Sync and an awsome Shaker 500 stereo for the price. Also its quite the drivers car. Really handles well.

As for space its a very livable daily driver. I know that from owning an 05 GT for several years. The interior and storage volume has not changed.

That's my Ford plug for the day.

[NOS2006]

That's actually a pretty intriguing option... the '11 Mustang V6 w/ Premium Package. Didn't put too much thought into it because I've always felt that if you're getting a Mustang or Camaro, it's V8 or bust. But these V6 cars are pretty badass now. I might have to take one out for a test drive. Best part about it: it's American.

However, to get the 5.1 0-60 time, you need the performance package. I'd want the performance and premium packages.. my price would likely be well over $25k.

[Intrepidation]

I second the Mustang.

[Z-06]

CPO 335i with sports package, or sparingly used E46 330i with ZHP package, since you want M3 like characteristics. CPO will get rid of dumping money into BMW's gremlins and stealerships.

A 2005, 2006 CTS-V - but at a fuel economy sacrifice.

We can talk if you want, you know.

[daves87rs]

I like the stang too...

[NOS2006]

Z-06, the ZHP looks like a pretty good car and basically what I'm looking for, but what worries me is the reliability factor. Most of these (in my price range) have 70k+ miles on them, and I can only imagine that 5-8 year old BMW parts would be pretty expensive.

However, E46 335i ZHP and 2011 Mustang V6 Premium Package are the top runners. Any others?

[Z-06]

Z-06, the ZHP looks like a pretty good car and basically what I'm looking for, but what worries me is the reliability factor. Most of these (in my price range) have 70k+ miles on them, and I can only imagine that 5-8 year old BMW parts would be pretty expensive.

However, E46 335i ZHP and 2011 Mustang V6 Premium Package are the top runners. Any others?

I was just kidding. I am going to keep the car for a while. BMW reliability is a hit or miss. Mine has behaved good so far but I hate the dealerships. Look at the bimmerfest or E46 forums to see the reliability issues. There is no 335i ZHP till MY 2011, which is coupe and convertible only. Sports package is a better alternative.

How about the Z350 or a previous gen G35 coupe?

[NOS2006]

Oh, I didn't realize that was your car. lol

By Z350, do you mean 350Z? If so, I thought about it... but I plan on getting a Corvette in about 3ish years, so the 350 would be pointless since this car I'm looking for will end up being my all-weather car and the Corvette will come out in the nicer weather only.

And with the G35, I'm impartial. They're not bad looking, not bad specs, but the interior's pretty ugly IMO. I do have that car in the back of my mind though..

Honestly, I think the perfect car for me would be a brand new ATS, but I'm a couple years premature to be thinking about that.

[Z-06]

There is always venerable C5 that blows everything mentioned above in terms of performance, reliability and fuel economy as well.

You can find a nice 2002 Z06 for price of a M3. I have gotten 32 mpg cruising at 70-75 mph on flat I-95 in SC and GA.

[NOS2006]

Yeah, I really love the Corvettes. My two favorites (as far as what I'd like to actually own) are an '04 Z06 or '08 Coupe. But Michigan winters tell me no for right now.. lol

[pow]

Volkswagen GTI? Quick, efficient, comfortable, practical, safe, and relatively sporty.

[Nick]

I was just kidding. I am going to keep the car for a while. BMW reliability is a hit or miss. Mine has behaved good so far but I hate the dealerships. Look at the bimmerfest or E46 forums to see the reliability issues. There is no 335i ZHP till MY 2011, which is coupe and convertible only. Sports package is a better alternative.

How about the Z350 or a previous gen G35 coupe?

I have a buddy with an 01 330 that just rolled over 175k with no significant issues outside of general maintenance.

The 3ers are pretty good cars. They have those I6s dialed in rather well.

[Camino LS6]

G-T-O

[NOS2006]

I don't think I want a GTO in the winter up here. I really don't think they were designed to handle it at all.

[z28luvr01]

G8 V6? Or maybe a 1st gen CTS or STS.

[NOS2006]

I'd love a G8, but unfortunately I can't get a manual unless I get a GXP, and that's out of my range lol.

Not a big fan of the 1st Gen CTS (it's much like the 9-3 IMO... nice looking car, not a bad interior, but it just doesn't feel all that special). I'd love a new CTS, but MPGs are hardly any better than the E46 M3 and given the choice of the two, I'd likely take the better performer, especially since the M3 can be had for about the same price.

STS only came with an automatic.

[AAS]

4th gen. Legacy GT

[NOS2006]

Hmm, I might be able to give that a shot.

Why can't you just configure your own car? lol I'll take the interior and feel of a 370Z, looks/size of an E46 or E90 M3, and efficiency/power of a V6 Mustang w/ Performance Pack and 6-speed manual.

[z28luvr01]

I hear these are awesome drivers and very fuel efficient.

[intrigued]

Regarding the 2011 Mustang v6 you can get the 3.31 gears for the v6 as a stand along option for just a few hundred. No need to pony up for the sport package. The normal suspension setup is very good.

[NOS2006]

haha, I'm not sure why, but I was expecting that link to be for a Fiat 500.

The Cooper is an interesting car, but I think if I were to get one it'd have to be a John Cooper Works edition. I'm not an enormous fan of their styling... it's not the retro part, it's the boxy-like-an-xB thing. But I wouldn't mind checking it out if I found a good deal on a JCW edition.

Regarding the 2011 Mustang v6 you can get the 3.31 gears for the v6 as a stand along option for just a few hundred. No need to pony up for the sport package. The normal suspension setup is very good.

Oh really? Sweet! I'm going to head up to the Ford dealer tonight after work; this was on my mind all night. I went to bed, and I was sitting there thinking "damn it, would I get the performance or the premium?" I think I settled for the premium, but it'd be very difficult to step down to the 2.73 gears.

[Camino LS6]

I very much doubt that an M3 or a Mustang will be any more winter-capable than a GTO, all would require winter tires to be really useable.

[NOS2006]

The M3 and Mustang have way less torque, Camino, and that's what worries me about the GTO. I read up on it in forums earlier and it the summary I got from all the GTO owners said "any more than 4 inches, don't plan on moving." I know our winters and we definitely get more than that a couple times a season and the roads will be trash all day.

[Intrepidation]

Winter tires and common sense are all you need to drive any sort of car in the winter. Don't driven like an asshat in the snow, and take it slow.

With that said, I'd pick a V6 Mustang over a GTO any day. I was never big on the supersized RWD Cavalier look.

[NOS2006]

I was never big on the supersized RWD Cavalier look.

I liked it a lot more at first. Now, it just really looks old and huge. I prefer hard lines (a la Camaro and Mustang).

[Camino LS6]

I get the sharp lines thing, but the Cavalier bit is just way off.

My experience with the GTO and limited traction siruations makes me confident in the car as a capable winter driver (with appropriate tires). The T/C was excellent, and the torque was easy to manage even with it off. Of course, anything with a V6 will be even easier. But I have to say, you would love the GTO at the first drive. The car is just so competent and forgiving - certainly the best daily driver I've ever had. I loved every minute of driving that car.

[NOS2006]

I have driven a GTO before, and it did have a nice feeling powertrain and a great interior. And there was definitely a time when I did want a GTO, but when it came down to it, I felt like the car was too big and opted for something else (my SS/SC). I still feel the same thing.. I want a car that feels smaller.

I checked out an '11 Mustang V6 Premium today and it was slightly more impressive than I was expecting (which is definitely a good thing for Ford). The interior materials in the Premium were superior to the Camaro. The Shaker system was surprisingly good and all it's talked up to be. Nice steering wheel, nice dash design, nice layout overall. I wasn't able to drive it because they didn't have a six-speed at this dealer (although they had a ton of 5.0s and GT500s). I really anticipate driving this car though because I was truly impressed by it, even compared to the '11 Camaro SS I got to drive. If this thing drives as well as I think it will, Ford may have some money in their hands by the end of the year.

[Intrepidation]

The Mustang is truly an impressive and surprising car. I went for a test drive in the 2010, before all of the powertrain upgrades. I wasn't really interest in one compared to the Camaro or Challenger, but after driving one I can safely say I'd take it over the Camaro, and maybe even the Challenger. It's that good. I'd love to give the 2011 a spin .

[NOS2006]

I'm not a big fan of the Challenger and haven't been from day one. It just doesn't compete with the others, but most like its looks a lot. Here's something I found really, really interesting:

Model / 0-60 / qtr mile / 60-0 braking / lateral accel / rated hwy MPG

V6 Premium / 5.1 / 13.7 @ 102 / 104 ft / 0.96 Gs / 29 (Motor Trend)

'10 Mustang GT / 4.9 / 13.5 @ 104 / 108 ft / 0.95 Gs / 24 (Motor Trend)

'11 Mustang GT / 4.4 / 12.7 @ 111 / 104 ft / 0.97 Gs / 24 (Motor Trend)

'01 Camaro SS / 5.2 / 13.5 @ 107 / 120 ft / 0.87 Gs / 27 (Road & Track)

'10 Camaro SS / 4.7 / 13.1 @ 111 / 108 ft / 0.92 Gs / 25 (Motor Trend)

Challenger RT / 5.1 / 13.6 @ 105 / 135 ft / 0.82 Gs / 25 (Mustang Blog)

Not too bad... Only thing that's significantly better than the others on this list is the '11 GT.

[Camino LS6]

I like all three, and have from the start - although I'm not a fan of Mustang's new styling at all.

[NOS2006]

If I were to rate the three, I'd say I like the Camaro's exterior styling most, then Mustang, then Challenger. I feel like the Ford designers made a real good mix of '7 Mustang and '10 Camaro cues in their design and made it look much better than the '09 Mustangs, but I was a little offended when the newest body style debuted because, in a way, it resembled the Camaro too much to me.

Interior design, I'd rank it: Camaro / Mustang (tie) then Challenger.

Interior materials: Mustang, Challenger, Camaro

[NOS2006]

Drove a V6 Premium with 3.31s yesterday and they're as good a driver as expected. The V6 has a surprisingly nice feel to the shifter (which has a much lower throw than expected too). Very nice ride! Pricing the V6 Premium against a GT and GT Premium for a 12,000 mile 36 month lease showed that the base GT is the cheapest option, and the GT Premium is only $46 more per month than the V6 Premium. Tempting. Although they were all a bit higher than I expected, I'm sure some talking could be done.

I also found a really nice looking '04 A4 1.8T on Craig's List. Anybody know how good Audi's reliability is?

Also, I'm going to make it a point to drive all the cars I want to check out both now and once the weather starts getting cold and some snow gets on the road. I was told by a friend that someone he knows has a 3-series and it's terrible in the snow.. but that doesn't necessarily mean he has any snow tires or weight in the trunk. But I do want to see how each type of car handles itelf in the crappier weather around here since it will be my all-season daily driver.

[Camino LS6]

I've heard nightmares about older Audis, but have no concrete information to confirm that.

I like your evaluation plan. I will say that just about all of your potential choices are not terribly winter-friendly.

But then, winter driving is all about the right tires and driver skill.

[NOS2006]

Yeah, I've been able to trek it in the winter in a V6 Camaro on all-seasons and sand in the back (except one problem with black ice, but those accidents understandable), my '06 SS/SC on bald Pirelli summer tires, and my '04 Neon on the cheapest all-seasons I could possibly get (the tires didn't do well at all and never had grip, but somehow I made it). I can typically get around in the snow pretty good, but it does also come down to the ability of the car itself.

I know the Audi (especially with Quattro; A4 1.8T Quattro gets surprisingly good MPGs) would definitely be the best winter choice of the ones I've chosen, but if they're unreliable (which it seems they are), then I can't have that.

[intrigued]

I'm sure the mustang prices will come down some once the 2011's have a larger stock built up. So many people custom ordered them that there is not a lot of dealer stock sitting around right now. Glad to hear you liked it.

[NOS2006]

Yeah, I'm positive that they will. I'm hoping to be buying sometime during the holiday season or mid-winter, so hopefully the dealers will have a huge lack in sales at this time and I'll be able to get something for less than I would during the fall or summer.

[intrigued]

What color combo would you get? Black is always good and it looks really good with the saddle leather interior. I also really like the stealth grey and even though I'm not usually one for extroverted colors I like yellow blaze.

[NOS2006]

lol It's funny you said that... I'd be most interested in black with Saddle leather interior.

[Cory Wolfe]

Audi's require tender loving care, like most German cars. I wouldn't say they're unreliable, though, especially if you stick to newer ones.

[NOS2006]

Wow. If there was a Cruze SS hatchback available today that looked exactly like this (especially the interior), I would be going down to the dealership ASAP and signing on the line. Not even kidding...

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/09/chevy-cruze-hatchback-interior-snapped.html

Anyway, right now I'm stuck on two cars. The V6 Premium w/ 3.31s and 6-speed and the '04-05 330i/330xi (likely with ZHP package). I've driven the Mustang and loved it, but I haven't even looked at a 330 yet. The decision will come down to three things: payment vs. outcome (do I want to lease it for a couple years or do I want to pay approximately the same size payments and end up owning the car in the same amount of time?), if I even like the fit and feel of the 330, and how they do in the snow.

I feel like the best of these for the snow would be the 330xi, which is surprisingly not too bad on fuel (rated at 19/28 vs. 20/30 in 330i and 19/29 in Mustang). The 330s both have 70 HP less than the Mustang (with ZHP package) and probably don't handle as well, but who knows. The 330 is something I would have paid off within a few years and wouldn't have to worry about looking for a new car once the Mustang's lease is up. Also, the 330 has more room for passengers and luggage and likely has better comfort and options.

I really need to check out a 330 and figure out if I like it and go from there.

[pow]

Isn't the V6 Premium way more than $25K? More like $30K?

[NOS2006]

Nope, V6 Premium starts at just under $26k.

[Satty]

Take a spin in a Cooper S. It wont feel the same as a Mustang GT, but you'll be smiling the whole time.