I have to write a paper on hybrid cars

[milleramerican]

Hey guys, whats goin on? I've got to write a paper on hybrid cars and whether they are worth it or not. I'm not really sure where to look. What do you guys think? Any suggestions.

Thanks a lot!

[regfootball]

there are tons of articles on the inet about whether hybrids make personal financial sense.

The side of that is, are their any social or ecology benefits, like less gas and dependence on foreign oil, or getting a warm fuzzy about 'saving the environment'.

Look on Car and Drivers web sites for an old Brock yates article I think where he does his own sort of self wondering on the issue. He laid out (or someone did) in an editorial about how hybrids really don't and never will make sense. It was a great read.

however, Toyotas puppeteering of the media and public opinion will make you think Hybrids are the same thing as Jesus coming back to earth.

Edited March 9, 2006 by regfootball

[Newbiewar]

they arent the best fuel savers in the world... it depends on your intentions... if your goals are to use as little fuel as you can, they may help, but realistically driving styles play a bigger role in acheiving better fuel ecconomy, that is one thing the prius banks on...

there is no financial reason to purchase a hybrid... they just will never recoupe the cost, at least the japansese ones that have a 4-5k$ premium...

it would take somewhere around 7 years of driving 12-15k miles per year to recoupe the lost cost of the hybrid in fuel saving, while durring those 7 years you are likely to have other hybrid related problems making the investment worse...

[Flybrian]

The initital cost of entry is only offset by fuel savings if you 1)drive the car well beyond the time most people keep a car or 2)gas prices skyrocket very high very soon. Most hybrids out there are more about added performance than fuel economy, as exemplified by the Lexus and Highlander hybrids. As a car, the Prius itself isn't that great of one. It doesn't ride that well and handling is less than optimum by all accounts.

[Sixty8panther]

They still run primarily on gas but complicate the vehicle with tons f electronics and weigh the car down with massive batteries.

Hybrid cars are in all reality a really dumb idea. Great concept for some made for TV movie but they're not cost effective and for every 1MPG you save another additional block of lead and battery acid will end up in the enviroment.

Hydrogen. Fuel cells are definately the way to go.

And if you want to accomplish excellent fuel economy. (in the 40s like a Prius) all you need to do is buy a used little 1980s Rabitt or Civic.

Also, even the few great ideas that have come out of Hybrids like regenerative brakes and idle cutoff at red lights are fantascit in theory untill these systems develop super-costly problems and send these cars to the junkyard at an early age just like a SHO with a blown Yamaha motor. Car's worth less than the cost of the repair.

[Flybrian]

They still run primarily on gas but complicate the vehicle with tons f electronics and weigh the car down with massive batteries.

Actually, the weight isn't that much, though the space required by a hybrid drivetrain entails some compromises in design (a bit less rear seat space in the Silverado/Sierra hybrids, no folding rear seat in the Civic/Camry hybrids).

Hybrid cars are in all reality a really dumb idea. Great concept for some made for TV movie but they're not cost effective and for every 1MPG you save another additional block of lead and battery acid will end up in the enviroment.

Most hybrids use Nickel-Metal Hydride (NiMH) batteries, not lead-acid types.

And if you want to accomplish excellent fuel economy. (in the 40s like a Prius) all you need to do is buy a used little 1980s Rabitt or Civic.

Or better yet, a modern economy car like a manual Civic, Cobalt, Corolla, etc that have good natural fuel economy and contemporary features and emissions control devices.

Also, even the few great ideas that have come out of Hybrids like regenerative brakes and idle cutoff at red lights are fantascit in theory untill these systems develop super-costly problems and send these cars to the junkyard at an early age just like a SHO with a blown Yamaha motor. Car's worth less than the cost of the repair.

You don't know this yet. You're guessing.

Dude, this guy's trying to write a report. C'mon.

[Hudson]

Hey guys, whats goin on? I've got to write a paper on hybrid cars and whether they are worth it or not. I'm not really sure where to look. What do you guys think? Any suggestions.

Thanks a lot!

There are benefits other than simply fuel savings that you need to cover if you want a well-rounded paper. Lower emissions, less stress on the gas engine (potentially longer life), and the ability to make the vehicle more powerful while raising the efficiency of the vehicle.

Read articles on the Lexus RX400h, Honda Accord Hybrid, GM Two-Mode Hybrid system, and the Honda HSC concept car.

As was stated above, there have been many articles written on the cost and cost-effectiveness of owning a hybrid. Most if not all will tell you that the additional price of a hybrid will not be returned in savings at the gas pump. But how about the impact on the environment? Or the power increase without sacrificing gas mileage (or, in some cases, the increase in gas mileage).

There's a comparison (I have yet to read it) in the current issue of Motor Trend where they test four current hybrids. Take note of the Honda Accord Hybrid which got 27 mpg (excellent for a 240hp V6) during their test and turned a 6.9 second 0-60 time.

[Enzora]

Hi. Welcome to Cheers and Gears. Around here, we don't like hybrids because Toyota has a successful hybrid campaign and GM doesn't. And we all know that everything Toyota does is inherently bad.

Hybrids are a relatively new technology, and like many new technologies, the cost is more than the average consumer is willing to pay, making them currently a luxury item. To say that they'll never be economically feasible sounds pretty shortsighted to me. I think a better argument would be "hybrids, as they are now, will not be cost efficient." Who knows what changing technology will bring? Wasn't there an article on here recently about a new hybrid system that was going to be used in Ford trucks that was more cost-effective?

Of course, it's only one route out of many that need to be explored. Who knows if it will be replaced by better technology such as hydrogen or other alternative fuels? Or (gasp!) even combined with them. They all have their plusses on paper, but the costs have to be weighed, economically and environmentally.

Edit: Reg, is this that Brock Yates article you mentioned? Car and Driver

Edited March 9, 2006 by Enzora

[Petra]

I did a paper much like this a few months ago. Granted, it was an arguementative essay, and my position was against Hybrids. However, here are a few things I did that you can use:

- Mention the fact that disposal of the very environmentally un-friendly batteries that Hybrids use is a problem that has not yet been solved, and, furthermore, nobody knows how long the batteries will last before they need to be replaced, likely at great expense.

- State that Hybrids do create much fewer emissions than regular cars.

- Find some anecdotal evidence that Hybrids do not live up to the EPA fuel mileage claims; Google is your friend. However, to be fair, note that most cars do not meet their EPA standards (though they don't fall short by as huge a margin as Hybrids do), and that the EPA is redesigning their outdated testing methods because of this.

- Point out that Hybrid technology adds a lot of weight to a car. Higher weight is bad for fuel economy, handling, durability of components (puts more stress on them), and a variety of other things.

- If possible, make a graph or chart that illustrates how long it would take to "earn" back the extra money you'd spend on a Hybrid, as opposed to buying a non-Hybrid car. Use a flat rate for fuel economy and the EPA fuel economy ratings, and calculate how much money you would spend on gas every year. Then figure out how years it would take to earn back the difference between the Hybrid's sticker price and the non-Hybrids from saving gas. FYI, I used the Accord Hybrid vs. the Accord EX V6.

[Enzora]

Sweet man, a position paper is actually the exact type of paper that I have to write! And from what everyone is saying in here, hybrids are not worth it. Did you simply Google your sources, or did you use some sort of academic search engine?

Uh, I was really pulling most of that out of my ass, but there probably are some valid sources on the matter. But I wouldn't recommend citing anything that starts with "While the greenies and their flunkies in the so-called major media palpitate over the future of the hybrid" or any other article with such an obviously biased slant, be it right or left.

[milleramerican]

Uh, I was really pulling most of that out of my ass, but there probably are some valid sources on the matter.  But I wouldn't recommend citing anything that starts with "While the greenies and their flunkies in the so-called major media palpitate over the future of the hybrid"  or any other article with such an obviously biased slant, be it right or left.

Oops, I quoted the wrong guy. My bad

[milleramerican]

I did a paper much like this a few months ago. Granted, it was an arguementative essay, and my position was against Hybrids. However, here are a few things I did that you can use:

- Mention the fact that disposal of the very environmentally un-friendly batteries that Hybrids use is a problem that has not yet been solved, and, furthermore, nobody knows how long the batteries will last before they need to be replaced, likely at great expense.

- State that Hybrids do create much fewer emissions than regular cars.

- Find some anecdotal evidence that Hybrids do not live up to the EPA fuel mileage claims; Google is your friend. However, to be fair, note that most cars do not meet their EPA standards (though they don't fall short by as huge a margin as Hybrids do), and that the EPA is redesigning their outdated testing methods because of this. 

- Point out that Hybrid technology adds a lot of weight to a car. Higher weight is bad for fuel economy, handling, durability of components (puts more stress on them), and a variety of other things.

- If possible, make a graph or chart that illustrates how long it would take to "earn" back the extra money you'd spend on a Hybrid, as opposed to buying a non-Hybrid car. Use a flat rate for fuel economy and the EPA fuel economy ratings, and calculate how much money you would spend on gas every year. Then figure out how years it would take to earn back the difference between the Hybrid's sticker price and the non-Hybrids from saving gas. FYI, I used the Accord Hybrid vs. the Accord EX V6.

I actually have to write a position paper. Where did you find your sources? Google or something else, like an academic search engine?

Edited March 10, 2006 by milleramerican

[Petra]

Yup, I mostly used Google. It's amazing what you can find if you type in something like "disappointing Hybrid mileage"...

Of course, there is always plenty of information to be found from sites like edmunds.com, thecarconnection.com, autoweek.com, etc., etc. Sites like those would be more helpful with finding spec sheet information, like curb weight, EPA fuel economy ratings, base price, and so on.

[PurdueGuy]

TWO TOPICS TO MAKE YOUR PAPER MORE BROAD/INFORMED:

1. The first hybrids. They weren't from honda or toyota. Porsche is the first I'm aware of.

2. Hydraulic hybrids. Could be a cheaper & more reliable type of hybrid, in development by the EPA.

[Hudson]

When pricing out the cost of a hybrid, make sure to calculate in any tax incentives which, in some cases, bring the vehicle into competition with a non-hybrid on intial price.

[balthazar]

TWO TOPICS TO MAKE YOUR PAPER MORE BROAD/INFORMED:

1. The first hybrids.  They weren't from honda or toyota.  Porsche is the first I'm aware of.

Hybrids were plentiful and varied during the dawn of the industry. Porsche is far from the first.

[loki]

Hybrids were plentiful and varied during the dawn of the industry. Porsche is far from the first.

might be right, remember the first horseless carriges were battery or steam powered. in effect we're trying to come full circle with the power source.

might want to mention where hybrids are most useful--- buses and other short distance transport

if you get into the "hydrogen economy" that's much more debateable. ---safety, environmental disaster possiblities (start a thread or messege me for anything about this)

as far as cleaner-- same could be done if some authority in my part of the country (missouri) started pulling over old caravans and lincolns and such that are clearly burning oil , some how do something about that. kinda emissions, but kinda safety related ..on second thought, "safety" is why emissions were mandated right? lol isn't there supposed to be a california law that would prohibit moding or transplating any engine after factory? not sure if that got passed or not.... mean old engines couldn't be replaced w/ newer cleaner ones

anyway,