ATTENTION DODGEFAN and/or OTHERS

[Cory Wolfe]

YEAH!!! Oops, got carried away with the all-caps.

Click this link and tell me what you think.

This is probably the best deal I've found in looking for a car for my mom. I'm not entirely familiar with these cars, though. All I know is that it doesn't have the dreaded 2.7 in it. Let me know.

[Drew Dowdell]

don't wait for others... just go get the Carfax and if it's clean, go pick it up. With 28k miles there's at least 8,000 miles left on the original transmission*

*(joking at DF)

[daves87rs]

Just the usual annoying 90s stuff....Hurry!

[Drew Dowdell]

one for you BV?

[regfootball]

don't wait for others... just go get the Carfax and if it's clean, go pick it up. With 28k miles there's at least 8,000 miles left on the original transmission*

*(joking at DF)

no, you'd actually be serious. aside from that its a nice car.

[Cory Wolfe]

My parents checked it out and liked it. Drove well and looked like it was barely used. Only issue was a check engine light. Apparently, it was owned by some 90 year old lady. I'm not sure what the back story is for why she gave it up (sent to a home, perhaps), but she gave it to her niece who is selling it and a 1993 Lincoln Mark 8 for a smaller, newer car. They decided to get it, so tomorrow we're going to pick it up and bring it home. No more ratty-ass Sunfire.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Those Mark VIIIs were cool cars but I hear that it's actually impossible to find a replacement for those taillights which were actually NEON lights. Lots of people who have kept these cars seem to have gone to LED.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't think the '93s had the neon.

[Robert Hall]

Those Mark VIIIs were cool cars but I hear that it's actually impossible to find a replacement for those taillights which were actually NEON lights. Lots of people who have kept these cars seem to have gone to LED.

The air suspension must have been a weak point on those cars also...I see many of them riding low. There's someone on the westside of Phoenix that has a 1/2 dozen of 'em in his front yard, right off a major street...

As for the Concorde, that car sounds like a great buy if everything checks out and the mileage is legit.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[daves87rs]

Cool!

[Intrepidation]

If you want to know what the CEL is on for, do the keydance. Turn the key to accessory, turn it off, repeat 2 more times and on the third time leave it on acc. The odometer screen will display trouble codes. The last code is probably going to be P1684 followed by "done".

Also, for that price the timing belt and water pump better have been replaced, if not I would haggle theme down on it, because the car is due. If it hasn't been done it should be soon because these are interference engines, and the waterpump should be replaced with it.

Other than that, it seems like a nice one. Shoot me a message if you want more info, I'm all too glad to help.

Edit:

KBB suggests the retail value is $4,785, so I guess if you factor in the timing belt/waterpump replacement you'd end up about there. Still, I'd make sure to find out if it has been done before, and maybe you can shave a couple hundred off of the price if it hasn't. The Factory Service Manual states that the timing belt should be replaced every 105,000 miles or 84 months, whichever comes first.

Also, if the a/c is hissing r doesn't work, you're looking at an evaporator core replacement, which ain't cheap. Something else to haggle with if it's an issue. If it's in good working order, than I am jealous.

[Intrepidation]

no, you'd actually be serious. aside from that its a nice car.

What delicious irony it is that my transmission, at 202,000 miles, works perfectly, yet as I recall, your Aztek's was slipping at 105k.

[Cory Wolfe]

If you want to know what the CEL is on for, do the keydance. Turn the key to accessory, turn it off, repeat 2 more times and on the third time leave it on acc. The odometer screen will display trouble codes. The last code is probably going to be P1684 followed by "done".

Also, for that price the timing belt and water pump better have been replaced, if not I would haggle theme down on it, because the car is due. If it hasn't been done it should be soon because these are interference engines, and the waterpump should be replaced with it.

Other than that, it seems like a nice one. Shoot me a message if you want more info, I'm all too glad to help.

Edit:

KBB suggests the retail value is $4,785, so I guess if you factor in the timing belt/waterpump replacement you'd end up about there. Still, I'd make sure to find out if it has been done before, and maybe you can shave a couple hundred off of the price if it hasn't. The Factory Service Manual states that the timing belt should be replaced every 105,000 miles or 84 months, whichever comes first.

Also, if the a/c is hissing r doesn't work, you're looking at an evaporator core replacement, which ain't cheap. Something else to haggle with if it's an issue. If it's in good working order, than I am jealous.

Must be a location thing... KBB put the retail value at $6,845 for me.

I'm going to try the key dance and see what code(s) pop up and have Dallas search google on his Droid. Also get to check it out myself since my parent's don't always notice certain things. But we are about to head out to get it.

[67impss]

Best of luck

[Cory Wolfe]

Well, this one is out of the question.

Reg and Olds called it: Transmission. It was slipping, shifting with a good jerk, and on the second test drive I decided to take, refused to upshift. I was cruising along at 40 mph and the tach was at 3k and wouldn't budge. Looking under and listening while the car was idling, there was on odd sound coming from the tranny. Perhaps it was just that Chrysler 'whine' but I never heard it like that. My parents mentioned something about it shifting a little hard, but they made it sound like it was nothing big. Those issues seemed pretty big to me. Aside from that, it was a nice car. A little underbody rust, but nothing too significant. Interior was clean, besides an absolutely filthy steering wheel. Engine ran pretty good, as well. It's just that damn transmission...

To add to that, the sellers were completely stupid. They didn't know anything about that car. I asked if they had noticed anything with the transmission, they're responce: "Well, uh, no... I didn't really drive it, just down the block. It probably just needs new oil." After that, I asked about the price and going any lower because of the obvious transmission problems "Well no, we just put a couple hundred in it for a new battery, so I don't we're going to budge on the price any. We have other people interested in it."

I guess we'll keep looking.

[Intrepidation]

Did you check for a code? It was almost certainly P0700, although you'd need an OBD II scan tool to get the underlying codes.

On 1998-2001 cars it's usually the input and output sensors on the transmission that go bad, causing it to go into limp mode. I believe they are $20 each.

On 2002-2004 it's usually the valve body.

Either way though, a clueless seller does not inspire confidence.

[Cory Wolfe]

Did you check for a code? It was almost certainly P0700, although you'd need an OBD II scan tool to get the underlying codes.

On 1998-2001 cars it's usually the input and output sensors on the transmission that go bad, causing it to go into limp mode.

On 2002-2004 it's usually the valve body.

Either way though, a clueless seller does not inspire confidence.

I attempted that keydance and nothing came up for me.

[Intrepidation]

This is what should happen:

[Cory Wolfe]

Didn't do that at all.

Anyways, I almost hate to ask because I've heard some very, very, very bad things about it, but... 2004 Suzuki Verona? It's in my parents price range and they wanted me to check it out for them.

[Blake Noble]

Well, it's a Daewoo ... so use your best judgment I guess?

Other possibilities? I kept everything under five-grand and tried to keep the mileage under 100k.

2000 Chevrolet Impala, 105k, $3k: http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/1947716994.html

2004 Dodge Stratus, 88k, $4650: http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ctd/1947626571.html

2006 Chevrolet Cobalt (I know, I know), 70k, $4995: http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ctd/1947480141.html

2001 Buick Century, 84k, $4995: http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ctd/1946838296.html

1998 Olds Eighty-Eight, 85k (according to dealer's site), $4595: http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ctd/1946260447.html

2001 Ford Taurus, 69k, $4500: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/1947476669.html

1998 Cadillac SLS, 97k, $3500: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/1947119563.html

1995 Chevrolet Caprice, 45k, $4000: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/1946885296.html

1997 Audi A6, 98k, $4595: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/1946599726.html

Edited September 11, 2010 by whiteknight

[Drew Dowdell]

You know how Suzuki is just about to pull out of the U.S. market? Yeah, they can thank the Verona for that.

[Intrepidation]

Here's a few:

1999 Chrysler 300M: $990 with "reasonable" trade, $2,500 without http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/1946911620.html

1999 Chrysler 300M: $3,2000 with 78,000 miles: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/1946816073.html

2003 Chrysler 300M Special: $5,500 http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/1946725684.html

2004 Chrysler Concorde Limited: $3,629 with 137,389 miles http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/1943398084.html

2001 Intrepid R/T: $2,750 http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/1942260977.html

2000 Chevrolet Impala LS: $3,695 http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/1944507530.html

2004 Chevrolet Impala: $4673 with 149,711 miles http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/1934302712.html

Don't forget about the Panther cars. They're a dime a dozen and those 4.6s are bulletproof. Easy to work on too.

2000 Mercury Grand Marquis LS: $3200 with 141,000 miles http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/1944631798.html

1997 Mercury Grand Marquis GS: $3,499 with 78,305 miles http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/1946514351.html

Also don't let mileage scare you. A car with higher miles can very well be a better vehicle than a car with lower miles. It's all about how the car was cared for.

[Blake Noble]

2003 Chrysler 300M Special: $5,500 http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/1946725684.html

I actually like that 300M myself. I don't know why.

However, it would look even better if the body extensions were color-keyed.

The Vent-Shades would have to go. I've never cared to see them on a car for some reason.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Forget the STS, you don't want a post 100k Northstar headache.

The Caprice, 88 and Century on the list you posted are all worth a look. Panthers ditto.

[Intrepidation]

I actually like that 300M myself. I don't know why.

However, it would look even better if the body extensions were color-keyed.

The Vent-Shades would have to go. I've never cared to see them on a car for some reason.

I've seen a few people paint the lower cladding to match the body. Looks good, although I like the stock look myself. I'm not big on Vent-Shades either...functional but not stylish. I'd put them on the Prizm if I could find them though. It's got my favorite interior color scheme though, and besides the minor paint blemish on the passenger side fascia is a fine example of the breed. Most powerful version of the 3.5, performance brakes, suspension, only LH with dual exhaust, only LH with HID headlights, only LH with turn signal mirrors IIRC, Only 4,500 were made between 2002 and 2004 I believe.

I'd love to own a Special.

[ocnblu]

No effing way on the junkass Verona.

A 3800-powered Impala is a good bet. They are known for a clunk in the steering, but otherwise are a much better bet within your mother's price range than a Chrysler product.

[Cory Wolfe]

My mom is anti-RWD and anti-V8. She doesn't want another Blazer in sedan disguise. Oh, and just to throw it out there, she wants the Sunfire to be her last manual transmission car. She's getting old.

Also she is the one that isn't buying anything with high mileage. One look at my Golf and you'd know I'm completely fine with it. Personally, that Concord we looked at was just proof that low mileage doesn't amount to much. She did like that car, though. A 300M would work great if we found one in our area (Philadelphia is 6 hours too far).

Edited September 11, 2010 by blackviper8891

[Blake Noble]

A 300M would work great if we found one in our area (Philadelphia is 6 hours too far).

So Pittsburgh is closer? Just asking so that we can help you out a bit with your search. I don't think anyone here wants to see you guys wind up with a Verona.

[Blake Noble]

Assuming Pittsburgh is closer ...

'02 Dodge Intrepid SE, 83k, $4995: http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ctd/1946829848.html

'02 "Chrystler" Sebring, 70k, $5145: http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ctd/1946500638.html

'02 Olds Alero, 61k, $4500: http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/1942647424.html

'02 Pontiac Grand Am, 79k, $5900: http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ctd/1941367956.html

'01 Buick Century, 21k, $5900: http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/1937111728.html (no pics, but ...)

'99 Buick LeSabre, 45k, $4050: http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ctd/1935105104.html

[Cory Wolfe]

Pittsburgh is much closer. Driving to Pitt is an hourly thing. Driving to Philly is a daily thing.

[Intrepidation]

Chrysler 300M...judging by the tail lights I'd say at least an `01. Not much info but they claim to have all the paperwork http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/1944133500.html

1999 Chrysler 300M: 115,000 miles $2,800 http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/1929884004.html

2000 Chrysler 300M: 139,000 miles $2,500 says minor damage to front fender http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/1947526732.html

[Cory Wolfe]

Mr. DF... When you have a chance, take a look at the now revised listing for that Concord. Clicky.

[Intrepidation]

"code reads tranny, it has low miles so it may need a filter, not sure."

LOL a filter...

I guess they pulled the generic P0700 code (called it), but didn't get it read by an OBD II or DRB III tool to find out the underlying codes.

Could be as simple as the input/output sensors, but can't know without the underlying codes.

[Cory Wolfe]

Out of curiousity... what all could it be? My parents asked me how much a transmission for one of these would cost and pretty much told me they are still considering it. It's not something I would really condone for them, but with what you say and the absurdity of a 28k car losing its transmission... I'm curious, myself, if this could be a cheap fix for a great deal.

Still looking, otherwise. I found a 2001 Sebring LX coupe with 47k in their price range that might be worth a look. I really just need to see what exactly she likes and doesn't like. Help me pinpoint something, rather than scour endlessly and picking out random possibilities.

[Blake Noble]

Call it a hunch, but I think the underlying code may be from a (the) shift solenoid(s). I know this was actually the big issue with Chrysler transmissions, not that they weren't built as sturdy as transmission Y from brand X, it's just the shift solenoids were junk. You said it would shift rough and relent to change gear, right? That's what has me thinking down this particular path. It's strange that they would shit the bed after only 28,000 miles, but then again this is an 11 year-old car we're talking about that has been infrequently driven over the years.

But ... I can barely work on my Camaro, so you may not want to listen to me.

EDIT: Well, I'm a little stumped as to what may be causing the transmission to "whine" other than a flywheel issue ... maybe an issue with the chain drive between the tranny and differential? Hmmm ...

If you really want it, take it to a transmission shop and see what the problem is before you buy it. Either way, it isn't like you're replacing the whole transmission, regardless if DF's right or if I'm right. As always, with either outcome, change out the transmission fluid when you have it repaired.

I'm scouring Craigslist for something to trade my money pit to constantly when I'm not doing assignments, so I'll continue to keep an eye out for you when I'm looking around. Could you tell me some more specifics, though, so I'll know exactly what to keep an eye out for?

So far, I know that you guys:

• Would prefer a low-mileage car
  
• Would prefer the car to be reliable
  
• Would not prefer anything rear-wheel drive
  
• Would not prefer anything with a V-8
  
• Would not prefer a car with a manual (wow, how drab is this list? lol j/k)
  
• Would prefer a late model car
  

That's little vague, so fill in some blanks for me, and the rest of us, BV.

Edited September 15, 2010 by whiteknight

[Intrepidation]

I'm going to get an opinion from some experts

I'll post what I find when I get back from work later today.

Worst case scenario is you'd need to replace the transmission. They run as little as $100. In fact I've seen one still in the Mopar shipping crate for sale on one of the forums for $300.

[Cory Wolfe]

Hell, if they're that cheap...

[cobaltSSwrecked]

http://altoona.craigslist.org/cto/1944342349.html

http://altoona.craigslist.org/ctd/1895844285.html

[Intrepidation]

Man I can't remember the last time I saw a Cougar or Galant. Look nice in the photos at least

If you worth noting that all LH cars use the same 42LE transmission. So finding one isn't an issue.

[Cory Wolfe]

How are PT Cruisers for reliability?

[Cory Wolfe]

^ Any input? My mom found one and she seems to like it.

[Intrepidation]

No horror stories that I've heard of. Some 2.4s apparently suffer from oil leaks, and the seats are iffy (my mom liked them, I found them to be uncomfortable), and the fuel economy isn't great, but that's about it.

[Cory Wolfe]

Neither have I, so I was unsure. I haven't really heard anything about their reliability for that matter.

[ocnblu]

I read somewhere that the PT is one of the most reliable Chrysler products. They certainly are useful.

[regfootball]

Well, this one is out of the question.

Reg and Olds called it: Transmission. It was slipping, shifting with a good jerk, and on the second test drive I decided to take, refused to upshift. I was cruising along at 40 mph and the tach was at 3k and wouldn't budge. Looking under and listening while the car was idling, there was on odd sound coming from the tranny. Perhaps it was just that Chrysler 'whine' but I never heard it like that. My parents mentioned something about it shifting a little hard, but they made it sound like it was nothing big. Those issues seemed pretty big to me. Aside from that, it was a nice car. A little underbody rust, but nothing too significant. Interior was clean, besides an absolutely filthy steering wheel. Engine ran pretty good, as well. It's just that damn transmission...

To add to that, the sellers were completely stupid. They didn't know anything about that car. I asked if they had noticed anything with the transmission, they're responce: "Well, uh, no... I didn't really drive it, just down the block. It probably just needs new oil." After that, I asked about the price and going any lower because of the obvious transmission problems "Well no, we just put a couple hundred in it for a new battery, so I don't we're going to budge on the price any. We have other people interested in it."

I guess we'll keep looking.

transmissions are nothing to mess with. from the point mine starting feeling like something was amiss til the time i decided to cut bait because i figured it would go out on me soon was a period of about 9-10 months. well, closer to a year. I wasn't going to be the one stuck with the 3,000 dollar bill. i drove my tek 115,000 without paying for a repair of any kind. its one thing to consider if the vehicle is paid for. but if you are shopping used cars, and it looks like too good of a deal, there is usually an asterisk after the price. a great deal plus money you didn't intend to spend to fix it all of a sudden can equal 'crap we spent too much for what we got'.

If you buy the car with cash, now you've sunk a ton of money into a car that is now not near worth what you gave up in money. If you took out a loan, now you are pretty much permanently upside down and are stuck with the car.

All I know is I have heard if from multiple parties (friends who owned chryslers, a relative to buys and sells used cars for a living and has done so for like 20 years) just have all said on a lot of the chryslers you have to do your due diligence on the transmission. lots of em went out at 60k miles and under is what i heard.

By the way tell the sellers its not tranny 'oil', its tranny 'fluid'.

Edited September 18, 2010 by regfootball

[Sixty8panther]

I read somewhere that the PT is one of the most reliable Chrysler products. They certainly are useful.

Since this is BlackViper's family we're talking about a PT is a bad idea.

Seems like they'd probably manage to roll any vehicle with a center of

gravity slightly higher than a Lamborghini Countach. Or maybe it will

get driven off a cliff / boat ramp.

J/K (sort of)

The good thing is P/T has lots of HEAD room... for er... you know.

[A Horse With No Name]

The good thing is P/T has lots of HEAD room... for er... you know.

I think Dallas and BV are finding Head Room in a small Honda....

Better that they should get a Miata...unlimited HEAD room in those, from what I hear....

[Cory Wolfe]

Sorry to disappoint... I'm currently single.

[daves87rs]

PTs are good.

[Cory Wolfe]

This will probably turn into a no-brainer... 2003 Impala LS, loaded, 60k-ish, $6k-ish? My Mom's cousin's in-laws are selling it, so that leaves out hassling with a dealer or some stranger, as well.

Edited November 11, 2010 by blackviper8891