Lutz Warns of Hazards in Global Industry

[carguy22]

http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_lutz_warns_hazards/index.htm

[Newbiewar]

he's right... and there isnt anything anyone can do about it...

what we need is a globalization leader... because its a serious problem for our way of life...

[Ghost Dog]

rap like that is why we will have protectionism. And Huge Tariffs on Chinese, Korean, South American..... Auto Imports. Importing will be made Hugely Disadvantageous.

Its coming like a mudslide. The Ground is soaking up more and more. Offshoring is going to be crushed. And U.S. companies who make the move offshore will be punished the most.

[ellives]

I think you're being naive. Globalization is a natural effect which quite honestly I believe has been accelerated by the internet. Tariffs only delay the inevitable. Why is it the US should have a monopoly on good paying jobs and lifestyles?

rap like that is why we will have protectionism. And Huge Tariffs on Chinese, Korean, South American.....  Auto Imports. Importing will be made Hugely Disadvantageous.

  Its coming like a mudslide. The Ground is soaking up more and more. Offshoring is going to be crushed. And U.S. companies who make the move offshore will be punished the most.

[Simon C]

Let the rest of the world do all the work. They'll do it cheaper and better. So lets start by getting more Chinese doctors, lawyers, and dentists. Hey, how about judges, from India? Why not let them also take over congress? They'll do it cheaper, and better.

I know there's more we can give up. Police and firemen? Delivering the mail ... I know damn well that people from Mexico will do that a lot cheaper than we're paying our fellow AMERICANS!!!

Global economy. That's definately the way to go.

[tosil]

This is what happens when the big boys fall asleep at the wheel, and then wake up to find the world as a different place. The global market did not happen over night, sounds like they have been asleep for a few years now. I don't know enough to start pointing fingers at the UAW or GM or even the US government for that matter, but come on...... what ever happened to being proactive?

[evok]

Let the rest of the world do all the work. They'll do it cheaper and better. So lets start by getting more Chinese doctors, lawyers, and dentists. Hey, how about judges, from India? Why not let them also take over congress? They'll do it cheaper, and better. 

I know there's more we can give up. Police and firemen? Delivering the mail ... I know damn well that people from Mexico will do that a lot cheaper than we're paying our fellow AMERICANS!!!

Global economy. That's definately the way to go.

Who's fault is it that there are less and less children going into math and the sciences? Who's fault is it that the US is turning out less engineers each year? Who's fault is it that that there are more higher degreed foreign born science professional coming out of MIT, Standford, etc?

Who is to blame for the scientific focus of Chinese, Japanese, Germans, Indians, etc.

Washington?

Society?

Hollywood?

American as individual should look in the mirror first.

It is easy to throw stones and place blame.

Look in the mirror! Wake up America, you only have yourself to blame.

Edited March 9, 2006 by evok

[Flybrian]

This is true. This country is full of people who prefer to blame all others before blaming themselves.

[91z4me]

This is true. This country is full of people who prefer to blame all others before blaming themselves.

Quoted for Truth.

[evok]

Though I am not a fan but I think the book is a good outline for what has happend to the world. Read Friedman's The World is Flat. Should be a wake up call for the flag wavers out there.

Edited March 9, 2006 by evok

[Simon C]

Evok, I agree the USA needs to do more in school, but, it's all coming down to money. Money is why we are going to India and China. Not education.

And guys, we can't all work at McDonalds and get paid $6.50 an hour and support a family, own a home, and help send your kids to college.

We need to keep jobs in AMERICA!!

Does anyone out there agree with this???

[CARBIZ]

As long as it was only blue collar jobs that were being offshored, it was reasoned that service sector jobs would pick up the slack - and they did. Nobody can doubt that North America has enjoyed the greatest run of prosperity that the world has ever seen in the past decade or so.

However, now it is those service sector jobs that are being offshored as well. The real trouble is that countries like India and China literally have hundreds of millions of underemployed people. This isn't like the industrialization of Japan a century ago! How long would it take the labor market to raise the Chinese and Indians populace to even half the level of North America? Probably decades, I'd say. Japan did it in a generation, but then we were only talking about a hundred million or so people, not billions! The thinking goes that eventually labor prices will rise as jobs are filled and the newly affluent middle class demands increases; therefore, the West allows their standard of living to rise to our levels and then they price themselves out of the market.

THAT IS THE THEORY. We've never tried that with 1.2 billion people before, especially not when India's population alone is increasing with the population of California every year!

Major companies are tripping over themselves to supply these new economies, but I have grave reservations about their abilities EVER to saturate their own labor markets. Frankly, Americans could never buy enough Chinese televisions or hire enough Indian telemarketers to give all of them jobs.

And let's not forget that America's current prosperity is being fueled by the consumer market, which is buying mostly foreign made products and are being paid for by foreign bought treasury bills. What will happen when the middle class in America collapses and stops buying things?

[carlover23]

Evok, I agree the USA needs to do more in school, but, it's all coming down to money. Money is why we are going to India and China. Not education.

And guys, we can't all work at McDonalds and get paid $6.50 an hour and support a family, own a home, and help send your kids to college.

We need to keep jobs in AMERICA!!

Does anyone out there agree with this???

I agree wholehartedly with the above statement, I think people are putting too much stock in Indian and Chinese people being so much better/smarter than americans. My wife is in a Masters program with people from India who claim that their education is so much better than everyone else's but when asked if everyone in their country is given the same opprotunities to succeed, the answer is no, and that means the doctors, lawyers, etc. you see are the best of the best from those countries where the parents push them very hard, the average person from India is not that. You have money and influence, you get better education better opprotunies. That would be the same in any country/culture.

The bottom line is not that multinational/global companies are setting up shop because the workforce is better educated that their American couterparts, they are setting up shop because they are taking advantage of the economic difference between the second and third world country and the US.

I also have a co-worker who has had a knee replacement and had someone tell her that stopped using a particular companies plastic knee because once the company outsourced to India the quality of the product also got worse.

And in cases of Dell and tech firms who also outsorce their tech support, their customer service suffers, it is not in most instances better employees, but cheaper employees.

[evok]

We need to keep jobs in AMERICA!!

Does anyone out there agree with this???

Than American, Canadians, Europeans, etc. need to do what it takes to keep a job or create a job.

That takes, initiative, education and a drive to do what people need to do. That means not expecting a company to take care of you for 30 years, or a union to hide behind or whatever excuse anybody can cook up to displace responsibility. Small buisness is still leading job creator in the US.

[Simon C]

"That takes, initiative, education and a drive to do what people need to do. That means not expecting a company to take care of you for 30 years, or a union to hide behind or whatever excuse anybody can cook up to displace responsibility. Small buisness is still leading job creator in the US."

I don't agree with you on this.

1. "not expecting a company to take care of you for 30 years". When I started working for GM that's the way it was. Who was I to argue. 30 years is a long time. I don't expect you to agree with me on this, but you work all those years looking to retire, and then the possiblity of it being taken away ... doesn't feel to good.

2. "union to hide behind" ... where did that come from?

3. "Small buisness is still leading job creator in the US". But at what pay? Not $15, $17.50, $25 an hour! Those are wages you take care of a family with. Buy clothes, food, a car.

Try doing that on $7 dollars an hour.

[Simon C]

Maybe I'm "old fashioned" or maybe just "old", but I don't care about other countries. I care about America and I want America to come back. But it won't if we keep giving up jobs.

Did any of you see Bush telling India last week that Americans losing jobs to their country was a good thing??

One comedian asked "does he know we get the news over here?"

[CARBIZ]

Nobody can live on $7 an hour, for sure. Isn't it ironic that it is those same unions that helped to foster the middle class in America 75 years ago are now presiding over the demise of the middle class?

The culture and history of the "emerging markets" are vastly different than our own. I wonder at what success rate unions are going to be able to grow in these markets? In a Communist state? I am not a union fan, but do you think Industrial America would have awarded wage and benefit concessions voluntarily? Even the government had to be dragged, kicking and screaming to pass workplace safety legislation.

IN many ways, Brazil, China and India are where North America was 75 years ago, but with one HUGE difference: hundreds of millons of idle laborers.

[evok]

I don't agree with you on this.

1. "not expecting a company to take care of you for 30 years". When I started working for GM that's the way it was. Who was I to argue. 30 years is a long time. I don't expect you to agree with me on this, but you work all those years looking to retire, and then the possiblity of it being taken away ... doesn't feel to good.

Sorry to say times have changed as they always do. Which all goes back to my statements on education. If you have the skills and are flexible, someone growing up today or just starting out should do fine in this economy. Unskilled labor has been moving out of this country for 100 years. That is not a recent trend. Farming, textiles and now manufacturing, (caveat ) when looking at the big picture. Now low skill jobs include clerks in law firms or accounting office and even technical jobs such as CAD designers, etc. There is no difference between purchasing a robot in a plant or a state of the art tractor on farm to improve performance or efficiency than farming out low skill labor.

That is not my opinion but the state of where things have been for a long time in this country.

2. "union to hide behind" ... where did that come from?

Read my post, I did not say you.

[

3. "Small buisness is still leading job creator in the US". But at what pay? Not $15, $17.50, $25 an hour! Those are wages you take care of a family with. Buy clothes, food, a car.

Try doing that on $7 dollars an hour.

As with anything it depends where you work. I am in the process of looking up statistics on labors homepage. If you want to make this an interesting discussion I suggest you do the same. If not, this is a round robin, circular discussion that will not go anywhere. I will post data when I dig through the nosie on the government site.

[-Camaro-]

This is true. This country is full of people who prefer to blame all others before blaming themselves.

That's the way it is all around the world....

[Ghost Dog]

Sorry to say times have changed as they always do.  Which all goes back to my statements on education.  If you have the skills and are flexible, someone growing up today or just starting out should do fine in this economy.  Unskilled labor has been moving out of this country for 100 years.  That is not a recent trend.  Farming, textiles and now manufacturing, (caveat ) when looking at the big picture.  Now low skill jobs include clerks in law firms or accounting office and even technical jobs such as CAD designers, etc.  There is no difference between purchasing a robot in a plant or a state of the art tractor on farm to improve performance or efficiency than farming out low skill labor.

That is not my opinion but the state of where things have been for a long time in this country.

Read my post, I did not say you.

[

As with anything it depends where you work.  I am in the process of looking up statistics on labors homepage.  If you want to make this an interesting discussion I suggest you do the same.  If not, this is a round robin, circular discussion that will not go anywhere.  I will post data when I dig through the nosie on the government site.

The Callousness is offensive. The Old School economy(Slaves and masters) which what is being driven toward. Does not offer the outs you suggest. When people are demeaned into sub poverty wages, the children usually end up working at very early ages to help the Family out.

Extreme class seperation leads to one thing.

As for people Being taken Care of for thirty years after retirement. They took care of themselves that pension is EARNED WAGE. Its Thiers!!!!!!!!! They Worked for it!!!!!!!

Its not company welfare, thats entirely B.S. Its thier money!!!!

[Carguy]

Welcome to the END of western civilization! FREE TRADE ='s The FREEDOM TO BE A ((TRAITOR))!!

[haypops]

Small buisness is still leading job creator in the US.

I guess it depends on your definition. Most of us would argue with the government's definition. That data is based on the definition of a small business being one of 499 employees or less. Not very small in my way of thinking.

[evok]

I guess it depends on your definition.  Most of us would argue with the government's definition.  That data is based on the definition of a small business being one of 499 employees or less.  Not very small in my way of thinking.

Let us work with the facts.

http://stats.bls.gov/cew/ew04table4.pdf

When you look at the data it becomes apparent where people are employed in direct relation to the size of the organization.

Many people are misinformed as to the size and impact of small business on the economy. From the data I have provided courtesy of BLS, your argument is moot because based upon how the small Small Business Administration defines a small business (<499), it only amplifies the significance of those entities. As BLS bins the data in the above link with greater resolution than your aggragate argument, the significance or the typical Fortune 500 company is reduced as number of business that employ under 49 people is alot greater.

Edited March 10, 2006 by evok

[Guest buickman]

The biggest hazard is keeping Wagoner around.

Imagine the image:

An extra $2000 on Trailblazers and other models starts Wed. That will be just wonderful for public perception. So much for "Value Pricing". Think how you would feel if you bought a vehicle last week and see this announcement. GM is run by the most incompetent individuals in the business. Wagoner, LaNeve, Dewar and the rest of the bunch should be thrown out as soon as possible. In fact, Wagoner should go to prison, a case for which I will make at the Annual Meeting in June.

Buickman

[z28luvr01]

buickman,

Please stay on topic.

Thanks.

[CARBIZ]

Ghost, nobody argues that unions don't contribute to their pensions, but everybody lost money in the stock market meltdown 6 years ago. Many companies have had to prop up their company pensions since. Those of us who only have their own private pensions just had to suck it up. One friend of mine watched nearly a quarter million of his and his wife's retirement fund evaporate!

The new world economy is placing pressures on investments like never before. Wall Street has no patience either! Boards are under pressure to produce results TODAY. Long term thinking is rarely rewarded.

GM's mess of the last couple years is partially of its own making - nobody denies that. However, there are a lot of external pressures, too.

[haypops]

Let us work with the facts.

http://stats.bls.gov/cew/ew04table4.pdf

When you look at the data it becomes apparent where people are employed in direct relation to the size of the organization.

Many people are misinformed as to the size and impact of small business on the economy.  From the data I have provided courtesy of BLS, your argument is moot because based upon how the small Small Business Administration defines a small business (<499), it only amplifies the significance of those entities.  As BLS bins the data in the above link with greater resolution than your aggragate argument, the significance or the typical Fortune 500 company is reduced as number of business that employ under 49 people is alot greater.

Using the data you so kindly provided, and defining a small business as less than 100 employees rather than 500, then 55 billion are employed in large organiations and only 51 billion in small organization. I made no claim as to fortune 500 companies and indeed have no opinion on them per se.

[evok]

Using the data you so kindly provided, and defining a small business as less than 100 employees rather than 500, then 55 billion are employed in large organiations and only 51 billion in small organization.  I made no claim as to fortune 500 companies and indeed have no opinion on them per se.

Go back and calculate the average employee for all the bins. You might find some interesting things. Especially the 1000+ employee bin.

Edited March 11, 2006 by evok

[sciguy_0504]

3. "Small buisness is still leading job creator in the US". But at what pay? Not $15, $17.50, $25 an hour! Those are wages you take care of a family with. Buy clothes, food, a car.

Try doing that on $7 dollars an hour.

My dad's small computer/printer/technology business has exploded and has been year after year since 1998 when he started it. The economic slowdown had zero effect on business. My family is much better off today economically than we were before 1998.

My dad has a handful of employees are all are paid well. On top of salary, both have company cars and one has full health benefits while another pays 25% of his because he elected to be paid more rather than receive a slightly smaller paycheck with full benefits. We would love to hire another technician and are currently looking to but there is a problem. Everyone in the field is mainly interested in computers and networking while the company's specialty is printers. No one knows printer repair.

You do not have to work at some huge company in order to be paid a nice salary and receive good benefits. In fact, I would bet working at a smaller company would be better in the long run once you combine salary, benefits and the less stress environment. Plus, smaller companies are more nimble in changing economies (ie. 5,000 people do not have to be laid off when the economy goes slightly south).

[Newbiewar]

My dad's small computer/printer/technology business has exploded and has been year after year since 1998 when he started it.  The economic slowdown had zero effect on business.  My family is much better off today economically than we were before 1998.

My dad has a handful of employees are all are paid well.  On top of salary, both have company cars and one has full health benefits while another pays 25% of his because he elected to be paid more rather than receive a slightly smaller paycheck with full benefits.  We would love to hire another technician and are currently looking to but there is a problem.  Everyone in the field is mainly interested in computers and networking while the company's specialty is printers.  No one knows printer repair.

You do not have to work at some huge company in order to be paid a nice salary and receive good benefits.  In fact, I would bet working at a smaller company would be better in the long run once you combine salary, benefits and the less stress environment.  Plus, smaller companies are more nimble in changing economies (ie. 5,000 people do not have to be laid off when the economy goes slightly south).

my old employer always told me "I'd rather have a small store and a big business, then a big store and a small business." it was a nice little shop and straight outa highschool i was making 30k a year... but that was about capped working 54 hours a week...

but it was fun while it lasted

[Dsuupr]

As sad is it is to say I think GMs purchase of Daewoo will put them in a better long term position than even toyota.

[evok]

As sad is it is to say I think GMs purchase of Daewoo will put them in a better long term position than even toyota.

Why is that sad? Daewoo was a steal for GM at app. 500 million USD. If it were not for GM-DAT there would be not Chevy Europe and GM would be short app 800k sales makeing Toyota the global #1.

Edited March 11, 2006 by evok

[Newbiewar]

Why is that sad?  Daewoo was a steal for GM at app. 500 million USD.  If it were not for GM-DAT there would be not Chevy Europe and GM would be short app 800k sales makeing Toyota the global #1.

just because korea makes wierd looking cars, they are cheap to produce... with american leadership daewoo has a lot of potential...

[The O.C.]

just because korea makes wierd looking cars, they are cheap to produce... with american leadership daewoo has a lot of potential...

Wierd looking? HA! Not any more....

There's many of us on here that would rather have the new Epica than the current Malibu....or the new Captiva than the current Equinox....

I just got out of a new Sonata rental.....what a NICE looking car (Accord look-alike or not...)

[Flybrian]

Why is that sad?  Daewoo was a steal for GM at app. 500 million USD.  If it were not for GM-DAT there would be not Chevy Europe and GM would be short app 800k sales makeing Toyota the global #1.

Its sad because of this...

But that era is long since over. People need to realize GMDAT is one of the most beneficial foreign aquisitions in recent times, especially for GM. Dare I say, a better investment than SAAB.

[caddyfan2004]

I think you're being naive. Globalization is a natural effect which quite honestly I believe has been accelerated by the internet. Tariffs only delay the inevitable. Why is it the US should have a monopoly on good paying jobs and lifestyles?

With a comment like that, I suspect you donate most of your income to charity already, right? After all, why should you have it better than other hardworking people?

[caddyfan2004]

Let us work with the facts.

http://stats.bls.gov/cew/ew04table4.pdf

When you look at the data it becomes apparent where people are employed in direct relation to the size of the organization.

Many people are misinformed as to the size and impact of small business on the economy.  From the data I have provided courtesy of BLS, your argument is moot because based upon how the small Small Business Administration defines a small business (<499), it only amplifies the significance of those entities.  As BLS bins the data in the above link with greater resolution than your aggragate argument, the significance or the typical Fortune 500 company is reduced as number of business that employ under 49 people is alot greater.

I'd like to see the income and benefits of those small business employees versus bigger companies.

[evok]

I'd like to see the income and benefits of those small business employees versus bigger companies.

It's a public website - have at it.

It took me long enough to find that data.