Newsweek on the return of Detriot

[avant1963]

Read the whole article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11677325/site/newsweek/page/2/

GM chief designer Ed Welburn sweeps into his Chevrolet design studio and it's as if he were stepping back in time. On one side of the cavernous white room, designers huddle over a silver retro remake of the Chevy Camaro. A few steps away, stylists scurry around a future Chevy family car that ripples with sinewy muscles from a bygone era. Papering the walls of the studio are photos of classic iron from Detroit's halcyon postwar years—the chiseled '65 Chevy Impala, the jet-age '65 Ford Galaxie, the long-nosed '65 Plymouth Fury. Welburn slowly walks around the work-in-progress family car, inspecting the latest nips and tucks. Suddenly, he notices an 18-inch clay model on a table nearby that offers an alternative take on the car with a gull-winged rear end. "Oh, my God," the normally soft-spoken designer shouts. "That rear is unbelievable! It links all the way back to the late '50s."

More sequels will soon be spinning out of Detroit. GM is said to be working on a faithful re-creation of the '67 Chevy Impala and an edgy Stingray convertible based on the Pontiac Solstice. Ford, dinged in recent years for its blandmobiles, is getting its mojo back with an audacious rear-wheel-drive family car based on the Mustang that's coming at the end of the decade, knowledgeable industry sources say. Ford also is believed to have greenlighted the Fairlane van, a modern interpretation of the '50s-era wood-paneled wagon. And Chrysler is sprinkling the bling from the 300C all over its next-generation minivan, insiders say. Motown execs promise the bad old days of Camry clones and Audi imitators are gone. "For a while, we were doing pretty bad cars," admits Lutz. "I suppose we had to give the public a chance to forget those so that we can go back to the '60s, when everybody loved us." If Detroit can rekindle that love affair, it just might have found its salvation.

[Cadillacfan]

The question: Is all this retro going to help or hurt GM in the long run? I think if they do have slight heritage cues but maintain a modern design (i.e. the new Cadillacs) they would be much more successful.

[99camaroSS]

and an edgy Stingray convertible based on the Pontiac Solstice.

whah?! i thought that was a load of crapola

Suddenly, he notices an 18-inch clay model on a table nearby that offers an alternative take on the car with a gull-winged rear end.

i wonder what that would look like? sounds interesting

Edited March 6, 2006 by 99camaroSS

[Carguy]

Why not go to the BEST time for American car design for inspiration? The 1960's were a GREAT time for the domestic's when some of the MOST BEAUTIFUL CARS EVER were designed!--- ---GO GM GO!!

[Dragon]

Seeing as the reporter is from MSNBC, I wouldn’t be surprised if GM was just putting on a show for the guy.

If he saw actual models of upcoming cares, I sure hope they aren’t retro. I don’t want cars of a “bygone era”, and want cars that are good looking and original to this era. I want designs that will evoke the emotion 30 years from now that cars from 30 years ago evoke now. I don’t want the future saying, wow, what unoriginal designs (*cough* Challenger); they look just like cars from 60 years

Edited March 6, 2006 by Dragon

[ZL-1]

I thought that Stingray thing was fake! On the other hand, it could be a show car.

Edited March 6, 2006 by ZL-1

[CARBIZ]

Modern interpretations of Detroit's glory days makes a lot of sense because it is the one area that Japan cannot copy; it is the one area that Japan cannot go!

Not only could this produce the cool, "gotta have" vehicles that the North American public will actually want to buy, it may also introduce a whole generation of buyers to the undeniable fact that the Big Three have been the backbone of the industrial heartland of this continent for 100 years, not the Johnnie-come-latelies that is Japan Inc., showing up to the party late and doing just enough to get around the Auto Pact and Free Trade.

Just don't water down the concept vehicles or cheapen the interiors! Keep the bean counters away!

[Simon C]

Whether it's retro or just new, so long as it looks sharp!!

[!!!TED!!!]

...GM is said to be working on a faithful re-creation of the '67 Chevy Impala...

Yes, yes, yesss! Finaly they are tapping the best generation for styling!

[sciguy_0504]

Retro is not sustainable, just like the bubbly pop music of the mid-to-late 1990s or the economic growth of China. It is good for a quick buck, an overnight sensation, but that is about it. I'd rather see GM invest in modern looking cars that can sustain the company for more than one model cycle.

[Flybrian]

Retro is not sustainable, just like the bubbly pop music of the mid-to-late 1990s or the economic growth of China.  It is good for a quick buck, an overnight sensation, but that is about it.  I'd rather see GM invest in modern looking cars that can sustain the company for more than one model cycle.

I don't think we're talking about Challenger levels of retro here. I believe a nice injection of some traditonal American design cues with a distinctly modern twist both inside and out would be a welcome change from the competant albeit unexciting Impala we have with us today.

[ponchoman49]

60's- 70's and 80's styling was always my favorite. The late 80's and all of the 90's produced so many dull generic looking cars and that look has sadly carried over to the present in all but a few notable examples. The Asian cars are the worst but then they hardly have a heritage with stunning styling. I just hope Chevy doesn't go overboard on the retro themes because most of todays generation just won't appreciate it. These very same people have made yawners like the Camry/Accord top selling cars so many folks just aren't after nicely styled cars anymore. I am just hoping, no begging Chevy to not go with the naked side door look that almost ever new car seems to be going with. If I want a dull, bland looking car with no character whatsoever then i'll buy a Camry. If I want some styling, chrome trim, character lines, door moldings etc, I hope Chevy will deliver and not copy everybody else.

[toesuf94]

I spoke with an engineer at the Heritage center who has seen the Impala that is spoken of here...he says it will litterally knock your socks off and blow your mind! It looks like an INTERPRETATION of the 65 Impala - with some of the others Impala's from other generations thrown in...much like the Camaro was an Interpretation with some old styling cues...same for the Impala. Sounds really cool. When he spoke of it, his eyes lit up like he was getting a Red Ryder B.B. gun for Christmas. His actuall expression of his first impression is not fit for publication here...but it sounded like F#*@-ME! THAT THING IS AWESOME!!!

As long as the cars all no longer look like a melted bar of soap, I am happy.

[tmp]

That's great. But I hope we see it soon on the show curcuit, and soon after in the showrooms. They can't be having this stuff coming out in 2012..

[!!!TED!!!]

Sounds really good. This is just what they should be doing all along. This is what I wanted the 2000 Impala to be, and hoped the 06 would become.

The GM waiting game continues.

If they have indeed found their styling mojo (the Camaro says YES), than things are shaping up very well.

[jbartley]

I don't think we're talking about Challenger levels of retro here. I believe a nice injection of some traditonal American design cues with a distinctly modern twist both inside and out would be a welcome change from the competant albeit unexciting Impala we have with us today.

Yeah, I think the Camaro gave us a GOOD indication how GM will incorporate reatro, future, and current chevy heritage and design cues.

Maybe GM has finally realized, the car actually has to have design cues from it's previous generations(the good ones) to actually fit it's name (impala, monte carlo, etc)

[buyacargetacheck]

and an edgy Stingray convertible based on the Pontiac Solstice.

Excellent. Sounds like a Chevy version of Kappa with old-school Corvette styling cues. Those of us who demand exclusive cars for each of the divisions (while ignoring the fact that Chevy has by far GM's largest dealer body) will hate this. I love it. Chevy and Cadillac should split everything GM offers.

[Robert Hall]

Excellent.  Sounds like a Chevy version of Kappa with old-school Corvette styling cues.  Those of us who demand exclusive cars for each of the divisions (while ignoring the fact that Chevy has by far GM's largest dealer body) will hate this.  I love it.  Chevy and Cadillac should split everything GM offers.

I see no problem with a Chevy kappa..as long as it's not a badge job and is sufficiently differentiated like the Solstice and Sky, why not? Small, inexpensive 2 seater roadsters are a good image thing for the brands...

[Croc]

I think this Impala will be to the 60s model as the CTS was/is to the 1959 Eldorado. Lots of evocative cues, lots of heritage, you know it's a Cadillac, but thoroughly modern.

Chevy Kappa? Go for it. Economies of scale are our friends.

Edited March 6, 2006 by Croc

[drew770]

As long as the Impala is not a Camry clone like the current body style is then Chevy might have a chance to recapture some lost sales.

But, Chevy still has to deliver a top notch quality car that meets and exceeds the industry standard which is the Camry right now. No one wants a good looking car that is still miles behind Toyota or Honda.

If Chevy does it then they need to do the complete job!

[regfootball]

folks want cars that are 'relevant', not 'retro'.

a previous poster used the word 'interpretation'. That's more promising an idea than some botched debacle like the Ford Thunderbird. I for one fall on the side of the fence that says the current Mustang is too retro. i even think the concept Camaro has too much retro.

Yet, with Saturn assuming control (theoretically) as the GM brand folks with money will buy, this could free Chevy up to climb into its own proverbial hole and rely on the tired styling cliches of the past as a crutch to keep them from duking it out with the big sellers. I suppose it either could work or not, depending on where the trends are at the time the new models come out. At a very minimum, they could serve up the market some of the tradtional American flavor that has been deprived in recent years.

I just hope Chevy doesn't kid themselves into thinking that retro cues and flavor are a lasting solution or that it will save any divisions. And like a previous poster said, the younger generations may entirely hate it and never want anything to do with GM at all.

Maybe Chevy is moving towards becoming like harley is to cycles.......its own style that never changes over time but develops a following, and is timeless or dated depending on what you choose to call it.

What I do like that is going on is that GM is using the press to promote the notion of Ed Welburn rekindling a new romance of car design, evocative of the past and filled with emotion. I like what Ed is doing and he's a great person to present in the press. He's talented and a great ambassador to GM and I think as a person he has the ability to connect with a large cross section of Americans. GM is in a great position here to claim the styling king title that no one else save for the germans seems to be taking. This is when all of GM's brands matter so much. Unlike Chrylser or Ford, GM can assault the market on so many fronts.....once they get their operations squared away.

Edited March 6, 2006 by regfootball

[Croc]

As long as the Impala is not a Camry clone like the current body style is then Chevy might have a chance to recapture some lost sales.

Chevy wishes it were a Camry clone! As is, still isn't there...

[Ghost Dog]

GM is said to be working on a faithful re-creation of the '67 Chevy Impala

I figure take the Camaro, stretch the wheelbase 6 inches. Give it 4 doors and 2 headlights. Thats how I magine the Zeta Impala.

[Angry Dad]

When a car company tries to make everybody happy, they seem to make nobody happy.

Considering that the 60s were a zenith of GM styling, why not use that time for inspiration.

Give me a chance to buy a car with styling that I like, if it looks good with tailfins and chrome, so be it. One thing for sure, it seems that everything doesn't have anything going for it these days. It's like looking at a sea of flat-chested women. Not all of them have to be that way.

[62impala]

Well, so far I've heard that this new Impala was patterned after the 63, then the 66, and now the 67...

I think that the 67 was maybe the ugliest of all the 60's Impalas; but that's just my opinion. My favorite will always be the 62, both the interior and the exterior.

[greg_nate]

Retro is not sustainable, just like the bubbly pop music of the mid-to-late 1990s or the economic growth of China.  It is good for a quick buck, an overnight sensation, but that is about it.  I'd rather see GM invest in modern looking cars that can sustain the company for more than one model cycle.

It would be nice to see GM take the lead in styling and innovation, rather than following the pack. But money is money, and GM isnt making much of it lately.

Their main goal, before anything else, is to climb out of the pit. They've got to be able to turn a consistent profit.

So if retro is worth a few quick bucks, then albeit!~ If retro sells, then let them hop on the bandwagon until the trend stops. At least they'll make some money in the meantime.

[hyperv6]

Please don't get overly retro upset here.

The Impala from my best clues will be much like the Camaro, a new design but cue's from the past. This is not a Challanger where it already looks old.

I have seen both the Camaro and Challanger in person. Before ypu praise one and condem one you need to see them in person.

Todays car design is so lame it is out of hand. If Chevy can deliver a reliable RWD car that is in the price range of a Camary. and Make it cool to own. they will have a hit. People are getting tired of the plain cars to the point of buying Sion toasters. Chevys home run would be a Impala that is Camary reliable and afordable but look good enough you would hang a poster of it up in the Garage.

The key is to update the new cars more often and keep them trendy. That was the key from the 60's as each year had a lot to offer over the past year.

I hate full on retro, but after seeing thre new Camaro it was done right. It is a new car and not a clone but when you see it you know it is a Camaro.

Can you say the same on the new Impala for 06? It is a nice car buy has no soul!

A great design is one that makes you feel it inside when you look at it. Also in a crowd it will draw attention and envy.

From what I have heard If ypu like the Camaro you will love the new Impala.

On the other note boot the Sting Ray Chevy has better things to build like a Nomad like Mini.

[ocnblu]

More fantastic GM styling news... and I noticed that mention of the RWD Ford sedan based on the Mustang platform... excellent! Bring 'em on! Being true to yourself is the only way to succeed!

[turbo200]

Todays car design is so lame it is out of hand. If Chevy can deliver a reliable RWD car that is in the price range of a Camary. and Make it cool to own. they will have a hit. People are getting tired of the plain cars to the point of buying Sion toasters. Chevys home run would be a Impala that is Camary reliable and afordable but look good enough you would hang a poster of it up in the Garage.

damn straight. design will sell this company like nothing else will. design will cause emotions to run high like nothing else will.

The camaro in person is current. It is a futuristic 67 with cues from the other generations. It's clearly a Camaro because it has design cues, but the overall design is very modern. I expect the same of Impala and any other retro influenced cars GM designs.

[Northstar]

Sounds like a lot of good news...

The Impala needs to go above and beyond the Camry, it needs to leave the Camry in it's dust. Let the Malibu take on the Camry and offer something bigger and better for about the same price (priced like the current model but with better looks, interior, handling, etc).

I really feel that using heritage design is a way to lure buyers away from the imports and back into American showrooms. Sure, some imports are flashy and relatively good looking, but nothing is going to compare to a bold, in-your-face American sedan. It needs to be nearly as bold and brash as the 300, but without the "I'm a shapely brick" look at the same time. It needs to be nearly as mean looking as the Charger but without looking so polarizing.

Without better design, there is no reason for many buyers to buy American. Design that brings out passion in a person is the only way to go. Reduced health care costs, job cuts, et al, may sustain a company and keep it from bankruptcy, but without great product, GM won't stay afloat forever.

GM must bring everything with their new wave of vehicles. Everything has to at least match the Japanese, and the styling of the cars must blow them away. The only way to get conquest buyers into the showroom is by evoking in them a desire for a product, and the way to do that is through design. The current Impala isn't going to get many import buyers into showrooms based on design, because it's not much better than your average Camry and Accord; thus, no import buyers are even going to come into Chevy showrooms to sit in one. With better design, buyers will be lured into showrooms, and if GM delivers on the interior and ride, power, and handling, then and only then will buyers return to GM.

[toesuf94]

just give us the kappa Nomad...not a rebadged Solstice...please! Let's go after the mini and the Beetle...but with something new and exciting and RWD!

[capriceman]

Ok Retro is cool and stuff but, Is it the way to go?

Dont Go the Challenger way to retro.

The Camaro hints retro but keeps a very modern design. theres a Fine line to get it right.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Old-school style, it seems, has crossover appeal. "When American cars started to look back at the old style, that caught my attention," says Allen Arnold, 24, who just traded a Honda Accord for a Dodge Charger with a Hemi engine. "You get in this car after work and you feel the power. It's manly."

THANK GOD!!!!! Detroit is FINALLY realising this..... ALL they have to do is pick up where they left off in the 60s and 70s as being INNOVATIVE, STYLISH, AMERICAN cars!

Nobody wants a bastardized Camry for a Malibu and nobody wants a melted ODDesse as a Chevy minivan... They WANT pure americana, just LOOK at the collector car boom!

Now, does this mean pure retro? Absolutely not! Just a nod to who YOU ARE and WHERE you've been.

I'm not a fan of the Sting Ray.... First of all, I don't like the name (It's not a Corvette) and secondly, GM does NOT need another roadster to dilute the impact of the Solstice. Kappa for Chevrolet=GOOD. Kappa Roadster for Chevrolet=BAD

Motown's hottest sellers—the hip-hop Chrysler 300C, the in-your-face Ford Fusion, the vintage Chevy HHR—all share an open-throttle American esthetic.

PERFECT!!!! Get the clue Detroit!!!!!!!

"There's enormous good will for the glory days of American cars, when they really were American and didn't try to be Japanese or German," says GM car czar Bob Lutz. "We all recently discovered that was a gold mine we had left fallow for a couple decades."

OH MY GOD!!! Lutz is reading my mind!!!!! I'm so happy!

"But if you have it and can bring it forward, it can be a game changer

THIS is why PONTIAC is SOOOO essential!!!! They are the ULTIMATE 60's mark.

In light of the world's hostility toward the United States, we're banding together and embracing things that remind us of a time when American power was celebrated. "In our primal brain, we're scared right now," says marketing consultant John Grace of Brand-Taxi. "And when we're threatened, we tend to reach back to the design ideas that defined us in the past."

This is a VERY interesting concept if any of you hve ever studied it!

And it is the very mindset that inspires POSTMODERNISM For those of you that don't know what postmodern means; it is the incorporation of aspects from ALL time periods into current design and culture. THEORY suggests that we gravitate toward POSTMODERNISM because we are unhappy with current events and in a bid of nostalgia, have a yearning to be back when times were BETTER, SIMPLER and EASIER, thus we incorporate things FROM that time period into our current lives.

"Look at the American cars from the '50s and '60s and you see that swagger, an unabashed, almost naive confidence," says auto consultant John Wolkonowicz of Global Insight. "That's the way the country was back then."

EXACTLY what they need now... CONFIDENCE and SWAGGER

***All this is great, BUT, styling alone wont get the job done... The new domestics need to have superior quality, superior technology and superior refinement as well.

[thegriffon]

I thought that Stingray thing was fake! On the other hand, it could be a show car.

Note the inherent disclaimer "It is said". Nothing to say he saw one , or that one has been mentioned by GM, merely that he may have heard the samne rumor you all heard previously.

[Guest Josh]

Griff, no need to cover for anybody.

It is real. It is on the books. It is well under development.

Those that have said it was a "lie" have deleted their posts like AH-H........errrr wait, like they "normally" do.

The car is coming, and more on the next gen Kappa. Wilmington is just waiting for the news.

[61Elkamino]

If you look at the motorcycle market in this country - you have the crowd who likes the Japanese bikes, and you have the Harley-Davidson lovers. I'm not into bikes myself, so I can't really say which is better. I'd be willing to guess that the Jap bikes have an edge on quality and performance. But, that doesn't hold Harley-Davidson back. It's all about the heritage of the bikes and the loyalty of the riders. Maybe the same thing should apply with GM, with Chevy & Pontiac in particular. If they built cars for people who love Chevys and Pontiacs, and stop trying to copy all the imports to win over the yuppies and soccar-moms (some of whom love old musclecars and Harleys, anyway), then maybe they might invoke some passion for people to buy their product. They might not dominate the market, but then neither does Harley Davidson.

[97regalGS]

Griff, no need to cover for anybody.

It is real. It is on the books. It is well under development.

Those that have said it was a "lie" have deleted their posts like AH-H........errrr wait, like they "normally" do.

The car is coming, and more on the next gen Kappa. Wilmington is just waiting for the news.

great. so given that this is now public, can you confirm product code, and when it should be on the street?

[ZL-1]

Note the inherent disclaimer "It is said". Nothing to say he saw one , or that one has been mentioned by GM, merely that he may have heard the samne rumor you all heard previously.

OK

Still on the Kappa Chevy issue, I'd like to add that I'd love to see the Nomad built and exported to Europe, so I could replace my MINI. A Solstice/Sky/GT coupe would do just as well

[Camino LS6]

American public to Detroit: Well, Captain Obvious, you finally seem to get it.

Detroit: We promise to really do it right this time.

Ap: Uh huh, heard that before.

D: Here's a Mustang!

Ap: Mmm, not bad.

D: Here's a Camaro!

Ap: Now that's nice!

Japan Inc.: CAMRY!

Ap: meh, you're boring me

D: *giggles*

D: How about an Impala?

Ap: can I get a GTO?

D: Coupe or Convertible?

Ap:

Japan Inc.: Consumer Reports!

Ap.: So what?

D:

[ToniCipriani]

Read the whole article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11677325/site/newsweek/page/2/

an edgy Stingray convertible based on the Pontiac Solstice

Please, no more Kappas. If one more is needed, extend it a bit, put a retractable hardtop and give it to Cadillac.

Edited March 7, 2006 by ToniCipriani

[turbo200]

Please, no more Kappas. If one more is needed, extend it a bit, put a retractable hardtop and give it to Cadillac.

yes, no need for a Chevy roadster to eat up volume of the promising ones out currently. Give Cadillac an SLK fighter, but I can do without the retractable hardtop, too many compromises.

[ToniCipriani]

yes, no need for a Chevy roadster to eat up volume of the promising ones out currently. Give Cadillac an SLK fighter, but I can do without the retractable hardtop, too many compromises.

If not a retractable hardtop, at least a motorized top. I have a friend was considering a Solstice, but then the dealbreaker was that the top was manual.

[-Camaro-]

I see no problem with a Chevy kappa..as long as it's not a badge job and is sufficiently differentiated like the Solstice and Sky, why not?  Small, inexpensive 2 seater roadsters are a good image thing for the brands...

The nomad = better choise in production...

[-Camaro-]

If not a retractable hardtop, at least a motorized top. I have a friend was considering a Solstice, but then the dealbreaker was that the top was manual.

Wow, you see a car you really like and think it has great styling/performance and then you go and buy something else, because it had a manual top.... :| That's like WEIRDDDDDD........!?! I doubt he was seriously considering it, if that was the dealbreaker. More like a casual glancer on the side of the street and going to look at it. Edited March 7, 2006 by -Camaro-

[sciguy_0504]

The nomad = better choise in production...

Definately.

[Sixty8panther]

I am so excited about this I'm like a little school girl wiht candy in her pocket!

Retro is not sustainable, just like the bubbly pop music of the mid-to-late 1990s or the economic growth of China.  It is good for a quick buck, an overnight sensation, but that is about it.  I'd rather see GM invest in modern looking cars that can sustain the company for more than one model cycle.

If after seeing the Camaro concept this past Jan. you still think GM will screw things up with retro styling then I have no words for you.

Edited March 7, 2006 by Sixty8panther

[Sixty8panther]

If not a retractable hardtop, at least a motorized top. I have a friend was considering a Solstice, but then the dealbreaker was that the top was manual.

I beleive your friend is what we call... how do I put this lightly... a, umm, well you know.... Pu$$y. Tell him to suck it up and eat a gummy bear to replace the 3.5 calories he will burn off while raising or lowering the top. :wink:

[sciguy_0504]

I am so excited about this I'm like a little school girl wiht candy in her pocket!

If after seeing the Camaro concept this past Jan. you still think GM will screw things up with retro styling then I have no words for you.

I'm with Reg when it comes to the Camaro. It is on that line for me, bordering on too retro. Anything past the neo-retro of the Camaro and it is a complete deal breaker.

It is cool to borrow styling cues here and there, inject some heritage into modern styling, that is fine. Blatantly copying past designs is not. You really only appeal to a small group of diehard enthusiasts who would love to feel like they are 20 years old again. With muscle cars, you kind of have to do that in order to sell cars (GTO is a prime example). With the entire lineup of retroized cars, it will be extremely hard to redesign them. How is GM going to redesign the HHR? Chrysler the PT? BMW the Mini? VW the New Beetle? Besides minor facelifts and model line additions, it cannot be done.

[ToniCipriani]

Well he was telling me that it was his dad that wants this car. They were actually looking into a Boxster-type vehicle, without the pricetag.

He does say the top is actually easy to operate.

Edited March 7, 2006 by ToniCipriani

[mustang84]

IMHO, just like cars from the past evolved into what they are today, retro cars will also evolve, but probably in a different direction. Retro doesn't mean road block. I can think of plenty of things that would make the Mustang look better and keep it fresh...and I've heard the '09 will have rear flanks this time.

I think auto design has evolved so much that we're left with either cars shaped like bars of soap or quirky boxes. The interesting styling cues and attention to detail autos had up until the 70s has sort of been lost in the age of mass production and mass marketing. The innovative or striking designs are few and far between. I personally like the idea of going back to a time before bread and butter, and evolving in a different direction from that starting point. And as new technology comes along that we can use in our automobiles, we'll incorporate it in like was done in the past.

Let the Japanese and Germans do their thing, but American auto companies need to get back to their roots of bold and brash styling. It's pretty much the only way people will take a second look at them these days.