Buick Statesman?

[Tailfin61]

Has anyone heard is this?

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...1024/LATESTNEWS

[ToniCipriani]

Has anyone heard is this?

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...1024/LATESTNEWS

They've been doing it for a while, but not in NA. It's the Buick Royaum in China.

[wildcat]

What, no "Invicta" name? Could someone please chop a Buick Enclave grille, etc. onto a Holden Statesman? Or will the exterior be the NG?

[buickguy]

The name statesman sounds big, probably fill the gap left over from the Roadmaster. Hope it includes a convertible. Sounds like it will be built here in North America.

[VenSeattle]

I can handle the NA Buick Flagship being called Statesman. No problem with the name what-so-ever. Sounds powerful, formal, and expensive.

[Northstar]

Good news for Buick, and if it is simply a Holden Statesman with Buick badging and fascias, then it would be inexpensive to do (meaning it would make a lot of money for Buick if successful) and would probably be here quickly.

[ToniCipriani]

Good news for Buick, and if it is simply a Holden Statesman with Buick badging and fascias, then it would be inexpensive to do (meaning it would make a lot of money for Buick if successful) and would probably be here quickly.

But won't we run into problems like the current outgoing GTO? The new safety standard and the currency exchange?

[Northstar]

I think they could just build it here but since it's already being made they'd only have to do the tooling to the plant and fascias to produce it.

They could produce it in China I suppose if that works out okay, but I don't know if Americans would want that.

[ToniCipriani]

I was specifically talking about the new safety standard that takes the current GTO out of production. If the two cars are on the same platform, I would suppose they will share the problem.

[91z4me]

I was specifically talking about the new safety standard that takes the current GTO out of production. If the two cars are on the same platform, I would suppose they will share the problem.

I think Lutz is thinking VE not the current V-car.

[VenSeattle]

The Statesman mentioned in the article is not referring to the current Statesman rebadge built for Chinese market. It's the one that will be built on the same platform for the next gen GTO:

Besides Camaro and GTO, other models set to be based on the Zeta platform are upcoming replacements for the Chevrolet Impala and Monte Carlo, and a new car called the Buick Statesman, according to Lutz.

The next gen Statesman could be built here for the NA market (as the article hints) and built in Australia for the Chinese market. Same vehicle, but built in two countries.

[Drew Dowdell]

People complain about the looks of the Lucerne and you guys are going Ga Ga over the Statesman?

[Northstar]

I think the Statesman would probably just be the nextLucerne. With Chi apparantly dead, what else would the Lucerne ride on?

[thegriffon]

FYI the current Statesman (as sold by Daewoo) is the same size as the Lucerne, but narrower. The new model to be released this year is very Audi-esque.

[wildcat]

You mean like the Audi A8? Do you expect the Statesman to replace the Lucerne? Can you give us a sense of how you think the Statesman will work as a Buick - a good move? Thank you.

[Sixty8panther]

We've been talking about this since the late 90s. Enough talking GM... let's see results.

[Flybrian]

It had better look like a decent Buick because the current Royaum badge-job looks sad.

[Cadillacfan]

You mean like the Audi A8?  Do you expect the Statesman to replace the Lucerne?  Can you give us a sense of how you think the Statesman will work as a Buick - a good move?  Thank you.

The Statesman probably won't replace the Lucerne but will be ranked above it.

A reason for that... it's RWD and the normal Buick customer (68+) may not like having a RWD vehicle as their only option.

Would I like the Lucerne to be replaced? Hell yeah... but I don't think anyone should be alienated from the brand.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

This is very interesting. Quite good actually.

I mentioned these possibilties before and look what is happening.

I did say Chrysler would bring the Imperial back on the 300 platform. Well, it looks like that is going to happen.

I said Pontiac would get the Cobalt and that it would be sold in the US from the Candian version. That is going to happen too.

I also did say that GM would bring the Holden Statesmen to the US as a Buick or Oldsmobile.

Well... It looks like that is a possibility too.

The El Camino thing with Holden UTE is a strong possibility because it is already badged as a Chevrolet for the Middle East and South Africa anyway.

It is easier and cheaper to build the cars here.

GM is getting smart. You have to see the big picture.

GM is starting to leverage itself globally instead of locally.

Fact:

GM North America has tried to build a competent small car.

It is not been too successful.

Why not use Opel/Vauxhall and Daewoo because they are in the heart of those markets where competent small cars are.

Fact: GM walked away from rear drive, and it would be too costly to build and create drive only for North America.

Why not use Holden who never stopped building rear drive to build some competent vehicles for North America.

Fact: GM has assests it can make good use of. They days of this platform in this region and this one in that region are over.

There is no mistake that Saturn has become Opel North America. They could not kill Saturn after the whole Oldsmobile debacle. To kill Saturn is to admit it was a mistake. Why not use Opel which is known globally and in the United States.

Why not use Opel as they were here in the US before.

GM is trying to cut costs in North America and globally unify all its brands.

I see what GM is doing..

Look at GM China. Look At GM Australia.

Buick and Pontiac are poised to become Holden North America. It will take time for this change to take place. Right now Pontiac is getting rebadged Chevys to keep them in business until the big changes happen. Holden has a formula that works. Buick and Pontiac at the present do not.

This is part of the reason they merged Pontiac and Buick and GMC dealers.

The kind of sporty cars Holden sells that Buick cannot or does not can be sold by a smaller Pontiac with some models unique to North America.

GM is cutting costs, platform sharing and building unique models for each region.

Look at GM Globally:

These are the global brands:

Chevrolet

Opel

SAAB

Cadillac

Hummer

Holden

Chevrolet and Opel interchange depending on the country

SAAB is European luxury. That was no mistake they merged SAAB with Opel and Vauxhall in Europe. It is smart business. Europeans did not accept a high priced Opel or Vauxhall. It was outclassed. With SAAB in that position, people accept it as a luxury car where they did not accept Opel/Vauxhall.

Cadillac has to re-istablish itself globally after so many years. It takes time. It is happening. It is the flagship or the "big luxury brand".

Hummer is just that. Hummer.

Buick is sold outside the United States and is more successful than in the United States. I agree from another thread. The Buicks in China are more luxurious than ours. Some aspects of the designs would not go over well here. I look for Buick to become more like Buick China with the Holden influence.

Holden is the middle brand sold globally in many countries as Chevys, Daewoos, Buicks.

*** They are launching Cadillac in Australia and thinking about relauching Chevrolet there. That is why Holden is using more Daewoos as lower end cars.

It that is succcessful, Holden would be the Buick and Pontiac of Australia.

There is no mistaking Holden had redesigned those Buicks in China.

Facts are fact again:

What could you do with Saturn here before they turned it to Opel North America?

What could you do with Pontiac and Buick before these recent changes?

GM has realized they do not have 50 % of the market any more, and outside Chevy, Cadillac and Saturn, Buick and Pontiac need to be smaller more focused brands. You combine them in one dealership with GMC, it is one division.

Toyota and Honda and others do it. They use fewer platforms and change the cars for different markets global.

The Acura TSX is the Honda Accord in Europe. Our Honda Accord is the biggest one in the world. It is on the same platform as that European one. They look like two different cars.

Honda and Toyota have global design centers.

GM has them now too.

Europe

Australia

Korea

United States

GM knows it cannot sell Daewoos in the United States or Europe or Australia

but it can sell them as Chevrolets and Suzukis and Holdens.

If you have someone in your family who can do something better than you, wouldn't you rather have them do it for you than you trying to do it on your own and making a mess of it?

I see a limited future for DTS and Lucerne. If Cadillac gets a flagship that is RWD, that eliminates the need for DTS. If Buick gets that Holden/ Buick car why do you need Lucerne?

It all comes down to dollars and sense.

People have been crying for the Opels/Vauxhall and Holdens to come the states, well you will get them under the guise of Buicks, Chevrolets, Saturns, and Pontiacs.

GM Daewoo knew it could not produce a "competent luxury car". Why not use the Holden as it is in that region, and it already there.

Pontiac, Saturn and SAAB will get "place holder" vehicles until the real stuff comes. It is better to have something in each segment than not to have anything at all.

The goal is more vehicles on fewer platforms that can be built in any plant in the world with fewer parts globally and not just locally.

What it comes down to is this:

To quote the show Absolutely Fabulous:

Names, darling names.....

Edited March 3, 2006 by NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

[Chicagoland]

'Statesman' is good name, and no legal squabbles.

Roadmaster and Park Avenue have same cannotation as Geritol and Depends.

Invicta too 1950's, and sounds like name of washed up Glamour queen.

[ToniCipriani]

Interesting:

Holden renamed the Statesman as "Statesman International"

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action...ew?modelid=7001

[Croc]

Invicta too 1950's, and sounds like name of washed up Glamour queen.

HAHA! I conjured an image of Anna Nicole getting caught under her coffee table with that line!

[MRDETROITMETAL]

The Buick Statesmen already exsists;...if you click on the one picture you will get the entire gallery of pixs of the current BUICK STATESMEN

http://www.globalautoindex.com/bodies.plt?...aprice/Satesman

GO Check this link to pictures of the current HOLDEN Roynum / caprice / & STATESMEN models. The statesmen is already a Buick and it is built in China, as has been said here, BUT THIS LINK HAS A NICE PHOTO GALLERY TO IT.

With different lights & some design tweaks, this could sell well for Buick as a top RWD model. The last 2 pix in the gallery really give a Buick feel to them and as the new Zeta platform comes online, I doubt it will be more than a evolution of this car. GM needs quick turnaround products, this car could be built anywhere.

Right now.

Edited March 21, 2006 by MRDETROITMETAL

[zetaman]

The next gen (WM) Statesman will be a completely new car and is an evolution only in the sense that both current and new models fulfill the same philosopy- large, luxurious autos. Engines and some transmissions are carry over but architecture and suspension components will be all new.

[Guest Josh]

For all intents and purposes I see things this way.

If Saturn is now Opel and Daewoo develops the new small cars then I have this to say.......

Pontiac becomes Holden.

It makes perfect sense and if it does not happen then I have to ask GMNA one question......

What the f@#k is wrong with you guys?!?

[Croc]

Um, aside from VE, Holden gets Opel leftovers. Pontiac would not be viable copying Holden as it would essentially be the same market position as Saturn, just with Zetas, which other divisions are getting. No. The best option for Pontiac would be as a boutique brand of little sport RWD cars. Small cars, Solstice roadster, small RWD compact, RWD midsize, nothing bigger than midsized. This would keep Pontiac focused while maintaining the youth appeal they still have without overlapping.

[Cadillacfan]

I agree with Croc.

Holdens rebadge under the Pontiac brand would be a huge disaster for GM since it would overlap in pricing and features with Buick, Saturn, and upper level chevys.

Remember: Buick will be offering an upscale RWD sedan(the one on this thread) and will eventually be shown in the same dealerships as Pontiac.

Remember.. Holden isn't a cheap brand.

GM (Lutz specifically) wants Pontiac to offer cheap, sporty vehicles with RWD that are unique to the brand.

Since it looks like GM is developing small RWD vehicle, it looks like changes are already in progress.

Also, Pontiac will probably only have 3 or 4 models when all is said and done when GM merges it with GMC and Buick dealer networks.

We don't need a full line of large sedans to take up that room.

[Sixty8panther]

Interesting:

Holden renamed the Statesman as "Statesman International"

Is that kind of like an international edition 1989 Cutlass Siera?

[GMTruckGuy74]

I agree with both Croc and Cadillacfan in that if Pontiac is to survive, they need to change their position in GM's hieracrhy. I think Pontiac should become GM's Scion. Offer youth-oriented, performance based vehicles that live up to the "Performance Division" slogan. I'm not saying all models should be performance models, have both the regualr and GT models available. But don't be "we offer something for everyone" division. Yes, I see a SUV in the lineup (something small and AWD - sorta the Pontiac competitor for the BMW X3). No minivan, no trucks. Even though I'd like to see GMC get a version of teh El Camino if it ever made a return, I'm thinking Pontiac would be better to receive it instead (it could be the AWD performance version, a'la Syclone). But a small RWD coupe & sedan, small RWD roadster (Solstice), and a midsize offering in coupe, sedan and convertible (maybe two, the G6 stays FWD and the GP/Bonne replacement is RWD & AWD). And have Pontiac get rid of those damn sport seats with side bolsters as the only seat available!

[ToniCipriani]

I agree with both Croc and Cadillacfan in that if Pontiac is to survive, they need to change their position in GM's hieracrhy.  I think Pontiac should become GM's Scion.  Offer youth-oriented, performance based vehicles that live up to the "Performance Division" slogan.  I'm not saying all models should be performance models, have both the regualr and GT models available.  But don't be "we offer something for everyone" division.  Yes, I see a SUV in the lineup (something small and AWD - sorta the Pontiac competitor for the BMW X3).  No minivan, no trucks.  Even though I'd like to see GMC get a version of teh El Camino if it ever made a return, I'm thinking Pontiac would be better to receive it instead (it could be the AWD performance version, a'la Syclone).  But a small RWD coupe & sedan, small RWD roadster (Solstice), and a midsize offering in coupe, sedan and convertible (maybe two, the G6 stays FWD and the GP/Bonne replacement is RWD & AWD).  And have Pontiac get rid of those damn sport seats with side bolsters as the only seat available!

Exactly what I was thinking about brand position. But no pickups in the line please, give it being car-based nor truck-based.

[Cananopie]

I agree with both Croc and Cadillacfan in that if Pontiac is to survive, they need to change their position in GM's hieracrhy.  I think Pontiac should become GM's Scion.  Offer youth-oriented, performance based vehicles that live up to the "Performance Division" slogan.  I'm not saying all models should be performance models, have both the regualr and GT models available.  But don't be "we offer something for everyone" division.  Yes, I see a SUV in the lineup (something small and AWD - sorta the Pontiac competitor for the BMW X3).  No minivan, no trucks.  Even though I'd like to see GMC get a version of teh El Camino if it ever made a return, I'm thinking Pontiac would be better to receive it instead (it could be the AWD performance version, a'la Syclone).  But a small RWD coupe & sedan, small RWD roadster (Solstice), and a midsize offering in coupe, sedan and convertible (maybe two, the G6 stays FWD and the GP/Bonne replacement is RWD & AWD).  And have Pontiac get rid of those damn sport seats with side bolsters as the only seat available!

It's not that I don't agree with you, because I do believe Pontiac is slowly being swept under the rug but... listen to what you're saying. It sounds like you want Pontiac to be the "import fighter" in the sense that you want GM to make a youth oriented brand that is competable with modern day popular youth oriented brands, something like Scion or even Mistubishi or Honda since all the vehicles are to be so small. But what was Saturn's job for the last decade? What was Oldsmobile's job before they went under?

If GM wants to be fully prepared to make a TRUE youth-oriented division that is fully competable with the current popular youth-oriented brands (and with a brand like Scion with the xB I know there can be improvement on style and sport since their engines would probably have a hard time powering a Shop-Vac) but GM needs to be prepared to put a LOT of money in to changing Pontiac's image to something way more sportier and youth-y than it already is. The Solstice is a great start but GM does not have the funds to keep up things like that considering their massive debt they're trying to recover from.

I agree Pontiac needs to do something to survive because Saturn is totally overshadowing it. It's now become clear Buick NA and Buick China are going to streamline to save costs... and the idea that was said earlier about how it is almost essential to cut one of GM's big brands because they've lost too much of the market I am finding it harder and harder to find a place for Pontiac.