Detroit News: 2006 Pontiac G6 GTP Coupe Review

[Variance]

Souped-up Pontiac G6 fails the luxury test

By Paul & Anita Lienert

We've been eagerly anticipating a test drive in the 2006 Pontiac G6 GTP, the performance-oriented edition of the slinky mid-size coupe.

In some respects, we weren't disappointed. But the apparent lack of attention to detail, especially in the cabin, was a major letdown.

We tested a well-equipped GTP with nearly $4,000 worth of options and a bottom line of $27,250.

SHE: What a stylish exterior! And that electric blue metallic paint is really eye-catching. But what a comedown to step inside the G6 and look around that flat and uninspired cabin, with the cheap materials, trim pieces that didn't fit together and other jarring features. It's like there was a total disconnection between the interior and the exterior for the Pontiac designers and engineers . And let me tell you that coupe buyers today are fussy. They expect an awful lot, especially if they're paying more than $25,000. Unfortunately, the GTP isn't going to live up to their desires or expectations.

HE: I agree with you about that gorgeous shape and color, but I have a slightly different take on the GTP, purely from a mechanical perspective. The G6 shares its basic underpinnings with the Saab 9-3 and several other General Motors mid-size cars. It's a pretty sturdy, well-damped chassis that delivers a smooth and comfortable ride. The GTP gets the high-output 3.9-liter V-6, which is a sweet engine that makes 240 horsepower. Pontiac coupled it with the new six-speed manual gearbox. The shift action is a little stiff, but the throws are precise, and the engine responds beautifully to the slightest throttle input. The four-wheel disc brakes are also above par, but I'm not as fond of the steering, which feels too heavy for a car with such sporting pretensions. It isn't nearly as agile as such competitors as the Scion tC or the Hyundai Tiburon which, incidentally, are priced thousands of dollars below the GTP.

SHE: My eyes started to glaze over as soon as I heard the word "mechanical." So let's go back to the cabin, which is where potential owners will spend most of their time. It seems like everywhere you look, Pontiac cut corners. There are major design flaws, too. The steering wheel feels so ungainly -- too thick to grip comfortably and too large in diameter. The center armrest is positioned too far back for shorter drivers to reach. The seat belts are poorly designed and difficult to reach and use. And with that tiny backlight and thick pillars everywhere you look, visibility is terrible.

HE: I should add a few gripes of my own. The doors are way too long and heavy for comfort. The audio system is overly complicated, even for a techhead and audiophile like myself. And I know what you mean about corner-cutting. Pontiac neglected to put a power recline adjustment on the driver's seat, and the manual control makes it difficult to precisely position the seat back for comfort. And there are no power controls of any sort on the front passenger seat. The rear compartment is just plain primitive-looking, with too little head and leg room for most adults of even average size. And, finally, most of the dials, switches, buttons, gauges and displays all look like they belong on an economy car, not a $27,000 performance model. Yikes! What the heck was Pontiac thinking?

SHE: I can't believe we actually agree on something. But I don't want to just complain. Considering the performance, and it was pretty amazing, the GTP gets decent fuel economy -- 18 mpg in the city and 26 mpg on the highway. That's a sweet exhaust note, too. I noticed that antilock brakes, traction control and stability control are all standard on the GTP. What I can't understand is why you have to pay extra for really basic safety equipment, like side air bags and side curtains.

HE: Pontiac did do something right inside. They moved the ignition key from the steering column to the dashboard. You can order such amenities as adjustable pedals and remote start. But I was surprised that an uplevel car like our test vehicle did not include climate controls with dual settings for driver and passenger. GM, of course, installed OnStar and XM satellite radio as options, but I would rather have spent that money on a navigation system.

SHE: You can't have everything, dear. But for $27,000, I'd like to see a lot more thought and effort go into the G6 cabin -- that is, if Pontiac wants to keep up with the competition.

2006 Pontiac G6 GTP Coupe

Type: Front-engine, front-wheel drive, four-passenger coupe.

Price: Base, $23,490 (inc. $625 destination charge); as tested, $27,250.

Engine: 3.9-liter V-6; 240-hp; 240 lb-ft torque.

EPA fuel economy: 18 mpg city/26 mpg highway.

Where built: Orion Township

12-month insurance cost, according to AAA Michigan*: $1,394 .(Estimate. Rates may be higher or lower, depending on coverage and driving record.)

Anita

Rating: 3

Likes: Stylish exterior. ABS, traction control and stability control standard on GTP. Nice exhaust note. Decent fuel economy.

Dislikes: Doesn't live up to desires of coupe buyers. Too much corner-cutting inside. Atrocious interior, flat and uninspired, with cheap materials. Lousy visibility, with small backlight and thick pillars. Steering wheel feels ungainly -- too big, too thick. Armrest too far back for shorter drivers to reach. Side air bags and side curtains cost extra. Interior trim pieces don't fit well. Poorly designed seat belts.

Paul

Rating: 2

Likes: Slinky shape is quite sexy. Lively 3.9L V-6, with good acceleration. Nice six-speed manual gearbox, with precise shifter. Sturdy, compliant suspension provides good control, comfortable ride. Ignition key moved from steering column to dash.

Dislikes: At $27,000-plus, our test car was overpriced by $8,000-$10,000. Doors too long and heavy. Rotary dials, buttons, gauges and displays look like they came from an economy car. Primitive-looking rear compartment, with insufficient head and leg room for most adults. Audio system is overly complicated. Lacks agility of competitors.

Link: http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/auto...ex.cfm?id=22267

[Flybrian]

The interior gripes can be legitimized, though I don't get the headline "fails the luxury test"...what? However, alot of the bitches like unspacious rear seating and long, awkward doors are traits of pretty much every modern sportcoupe and could also be said about the Tiburon, tC, Eclipse, etc.

[RJB]

Ouch! Funny, I just got done reading this article here at work, on lunch. They dropped a bomb on this car, basically it has potential but they(GM) dropped the ball again is how the Lienerts' feel. I do agree that most of the options should be standard on this car with its price tag. GM needs to start putting all these extras as standard or else this topic will go on until the end of time. You know what I'm talking about...the Japanese have this or that as standard equipment why don't the domestics? I believe the pictures of the car in the paper are of the G6 'vert too. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure.

Edited March 3, 2006 by RJB

[Croc]

Honestly? The worst part is this is a Lienert review I agree with! That's not supposed to happen!

[avant1963]

I drive a G6 EVERY f@#king day - enough with the interior $h!. The interior is easy on the eyes, easy to use and NO BETTER than much of the others that I have been in that are in the same price range. So these assholes think that a LOADED G6 GTP shoud cost the same as a Civic.

I'm about tired of ANYTHING in the press anymore. From these assholes, to CR to the general idiot public.

My blood pressure goes up every f@#king time I read this $h!. I'm tired. Take me out of the oven, I'm done!

And Croc, it's obvious that you are not a GM fan, have nothing to say about Buicks or Pontiacs other than "$h!y interior, $h!ty interior" Yeah, it doesn't match your M-Class, but spend some time in one, and learn something. I'm tired of this $h!. Bye Bye.

[ToniCipriani]

I drive a G6 EVERY f@#king day - enough with the interior $h!.  The interior is easy on the eyes, easy to use and NO BETTER than much of the others that I have been in that are in the same price range.  So these assholes think that a LOADED G6 GTP shoud cost the same as a Civic.

I'm about tired of ANYTHING in the press anymore.  From these assholes, to CR to the general idiot public. 

My blood pressure goes up every f@#king time I read this $h!.  I'm tired.  Take me out of the oven, I'm done!

And Croc, it's obvious that you are not a GM fan, have nothing to say about Buicks or Pontiacs other than "$h!y interior, $h!ty interior" Yeah, it doesn't match your M-Class, but spend some time in one, and learn something.  I'm tired of this $h!.  Bye Bye.

I agree with you, but cool off, man! No need to crack a vein or two because of these morons .

The title is flawed, too. When on earth G6 GTP is a "luxury"? As I always say, people are confused between "Premium" and "Luxury". If they want "luxury", they should be looking at a Caddy.

Just wait until my review comes out. I still need some time to work on it.

Edited March 2, 2006 by ToniCipriani

[bowtie_dude]

I hate these two. Why? Because I read their "review," which this article barely qualifies as, and I feel like I'm eavesdropping on a conversation two yuppies are having in the local Starbucks. Ugh!

[ToniCipriani]

My comments...

Souped-up Pontiac G6 fails the luxury test

By Paul & Anita Lienert

We've been eagerly anticipating a test drive in the 2006 Pontiac G6 GTP, the performance-oriented edition of the slinky mid-size coupe.

In some respects, we weren't disappointed. But the apparent lack of attention to detail, especially in the cabin, was a major letdown.

We tested a well-equipped GTP with nearly $4,000 worth of options and a bottom line of $27,250.

SHE: What a stylish exterior! And that electric blue metallic paint is really eye-catching. But what a comedown to step inside the G6 and look around that flat and uninspired cabin, with the cheap materials, trim pieces that didn't fit together and other jarring features. It's like there was a total disconnection between the interior and the exterior for the Pontiac designers and engineers . And let me tell you that coupe buyers today are fussy. They expect an awful lot, especially if they're paying more than $25,000. Unfortunately, the GTP isn't going to live up to their desires or expectations.

Do you work for GM? How do you know how much the materials cost? And why are you using the word isn't right at the beginning of the review?

HE: I agree with you about that gorgeous shape and color, but I have a slightly different take on the GTP, purely from a mechanical perspective. The G6 shares its basic underpinnings with the Saab 9-3 and several other General Motors mid-size cars. It's a pretty sturdy, well-damped chassis that delivers a smooth and comfortable ride. The GTP gets the high-output 3.9-liter V-6, which is a sweet engine that makes 240 horsepower. Pontiac coupled it with the new six-speed manual gearbox. The shift action is a little stiff, but the throws are precise, and the engine responds beautifully to the slightest throttle input. The four-wheel disc brakes are also above par, but I'm not as fond of the steering, which feels too heavy for a car with such sporting pretensions. It isn't nearly as agile as such competitors as the Scion tC or the Hyundai Tiburon which, incidentally, are priced thousands of dollars below the GTP.

Moron, the tC and Tiburon aren't even in the same class! G6 is midsize, those are compacts. And the steering is supposed to be stiffer than the base. If you want a nice, light steering for everyday use, get a base or GT.

SHE: My eyes started to glaze over as soon as I heard the word "mechanical." So let's go back to the cabin, which is where potential owners will spend most of their time. It seems like everywhere you look, Pontiac cut corners. There are major design flaws, too. The steering wheel feels so ungainly -- too thick to grip comfortably and too large in diameter. The center armrest is positioned too far back for shorter drivers to reach. The seat belts are poorly designed and difficult to reach and use. And with that tiny backlight and thick pillars everywhere you look, visibility is terrible.

Did you put the seatbelts where they are supposed to in the first place, i.e. on the hook of the seat? This seatbelt basic design is the same as pretty much any other car in the class.

HE: I should add a few gripes of my own. The doors are way too long and heavy for comfort. The audio system is overly complicated, even for a techhead and audiophile like myself. And I know what you mean about corner-cutting. Pontiac neglected to put a power recline adjustment on the driver's seat, and the manual control makes it difficult to precisely position the seat back for comfort. And there are no power controls of any sort on the front passenger seat. The rear compartment is just plain primitive-looking, with too little head and leg room for most adults of even average size. And, finally, most of the dials, switches, buttons, gauges and displays all look like they belong on an economy car, not a $27,000 performance model. Yikes! What the heck was Pontiac thinking?

If THOSE doors are considered heavy, I really think you have some kind of problem. And the audio system is hard to use? As I see it, it works the same way as any other car in the market, not to mention I played around with my friend's Accord, and it works the same way. Power button, insert a CD and it plays. Rotate the volume. That's about it. Same situation on my G6. Perhaps you're just too stupid, even to write a car review.

SHE: I can't believe we actually agree on something. But I don't want to just complain. Considering the performance, and it was pretty amazing, the GTP gets decent fuel economy -- 18 mpg in the city and 26 mpg on the highway. That's a sweet exhaust note, too. I noticed that antilock brakes, traction control and stability control are all standard on the GTP. What I can't understand is why you have to pay extra for really basic safety equipment, like side air bags and side curtains.

Basic safety equipment? When did front airbags got mandated?? Heck, if you haven't noticed, I have seen tons of people who don't even put their seatbelts on. And now your calling that to be basic? What's wrong with giving people the choice to save a few bucks?

HE: Pontiac did do something right inside. They moved the ignition key from the steering column to the dashboard. You can order such amenities as adjustable pedals and remote start. But I was surprised that an uplevel car like our test vehicle did not include climate controls with dual settings for driver and passenger. GM, of course, installed OnStar and XM satellite radio as options, but I would rather have spent that money on a navigation system.

The ignition position is very subjective. My friend's Mazda 3 is still in the same position as my Cavalier, and he says it's more natural. See, that's what you call subjective.

SHE: You can't have everything, dear. But for $27,000, I'd like to see a lot more thought and effort go into the G6 cabin -- that is, if Pontiac wants to keep up with the competition.

2006 Pontiac G6 GTP Coupe

Type: Front-engine, front-wheel drive, four-passenger coupe.

Price: Base, $23,490 (inc. $625 destination charge); as tested, $27,250.

Engine: 3.9-liter V-6; 240-hp; 240 lb-ft torque.

EPA fuel economy: 18 mpg city/26 mpg highway.

Where built: Orion Township

12-month insurance cost, according to AAA Michigan*: $1,394 .(Estimate. Rates may be higher or lower, depending on coverage and driving record.)

Anita

Rating: 3

Likes: Stylish exterior. ABS, traction control and stability control standard on GTP. Nice exhaust note. Decent fuel economy.

Dislikes: Doesn't live up to desires of coupe buyers. Too much corner-cutting inside. Atrocious interior, flat and uninspired, with cheap materials. Lousy visibility, with small backlight and thick pillars. Steering wheel feels ungainly -- too big, too thick. Armrest too far back for shorter drivers to reach. Side air bags and side curtains cost extra. Interior trim pieces don't fit well. Poorly designed seat belts.

Paul

Rating: 2

Likes: Slinky shape is quite sexy. Lively 3.9L V-6, with good acceleration. Nice six-speed manual gearbox, with precise shifter. Sturdy, compliant suspension provides good control, comfortable ride. Ignition key moved from steering column to dash.

Dislikes: At $27,000-plus, our test car was overpriced by $8,000-$10,000. Doors too long and heavy. Rotary dials, buttons, gauges and displays look like they came from an economy car. Primitive-looking rear compartment, with insufficient head and leg room for most adults. Audio system is overly complicated. Lacks agility of competitors.

Link: http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/auto...ex.cfm?id=22267

Not to mention I hate the way on how they packaged the review itself. I find it very unprofessional to write an article like dialogs.

[avant1963]

If these idiots ever drove a 1999-2005 Grand Am, or many other of GM's mid size offerings, the key HAD BEEN ON THE DASH FOR YEARS. They act like it was just put there in the G6.

AAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHOLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEESSSSS!

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

8-10K less?!?!?!

What tha F***?!?!?!

This is just another typical Lienert review... Typically bland, typically $h!ty and typically anti-GM.

P.S. Good to have you back Walt!

[Chazman]

Personally, I think the GTP should be the GT. And the GTP should get a level of serious development comparable to Pontiac's effort with the GP GXP.

[bowtie_dude]

When REAL car people were asked to review the G6 GT, here's what they said of the interior.

We were impressed with the G6's ergonomics, fit and finish, and high-quality plastics—most of which are nicely grained and soft to the touch—and aesthetically pleased by the two-tone beige-and-black ambience.

Car and Driver, January 2005

Asking the Lienert's to review cars is like asking me to review a John Deere tractor. How the hell do I know what makes a good tractor? And they obviously don't know what makes a good car.

And keep in mind that C&D editors aren't the most GM fanatical people on the planet, so their compliments on the interior hold A LOT of weight.

[bowtie_dude]

From Road and Track's review of the GTP Coupe just last month:

The wheel itself is a leather-wrapped 3-spoker with a fat rim section and auxiliary radio controls. The red-numeral gauges are ringed with chrome, easily read and unobscured by the wheel. But the center stack lets us down with its rather monotone look, cheesy radio knobs that belong on a $12,000 subcompact, and an ill-fitting liner for the storage cubby that looks like a stowaway from Rubbermaid's reject pile. On an up note, the graining and appearance of most plastics are now much better, and audio-system controls make up for their lack of presentational sparkle through their straightforward ease of use.

They had a few of the same issues with the "feel" of the nobs and buttons, but apparently are genious's since they found the "complicated stereo system" easy to use.

Its fast, too! From the same review:

Stand on it, and the 3530-lb. coupe puts down some very respectable test track numbers: 6.5 seconds to 60 mph, and the quarter mile in 15 flat at 95.7 mph, bracketed in performance by the slightly quicker Honda Accord V-6 Coupe and the fractionally slower Honda Civic Si we tested last month. Impressively, it puts the power down with only the tiniest trace of torque steer, and clutch engagement is positive and easily modulated, something that can't be said for the more finicky Accord.

And about the G6 GTP's direct competition, the Accord EX V6-coupe:

Pricier, yes, but the Honda Accord EX V-6 Coupe (tested March 2004) is lighter, slightly quicker and its interior shows more polish than the Pontiac. It also seats five to the G6's four, but the rear passengers won't enjoy as much leg room. The Honda gets the nod for engine/transmission smoothness, but the G6 wins points with a broader powerband.

I think R&T hits the nail right on the head. Like they, many of us, and FOG say, only slight tweeking interior-wise and some powertrain tweeks, and the G6 GTP is a solid competitor.

Almost forgot, here's the link to the whole article, G6 GTP Coupe, by R&T

And here's a nice profile shot of the coupe. Looks really good, IMO.

Edited March 2, 2006 by bowtie_dude

[enzl]

Boo-hoo...I'm sorry, but their critique is legit...the G6 is, overall, just underwhelming...

So your car isn't their favorite....who cares?

If the G6 is GM putting its best foot forward, GM's screwed anyway.

[z28luvr01]

My comments...

Not to mention I hate the way on how they packaged the review itself. I find it very unprofessional to write an article like dialogs.

This is a regular column they do. Husband and wife auto journalists...I can only imagine how much fun they are at parties. :

[bowtie_dude]

Boo-hoo...I'm sorry, but their critique is legit...the G6 is, overall, just underwhelming...

So your car isn't their favorite....who cares?

If the G6 is GM putting its best foot forward, GM's screwed anyway.

Not it isn't. Mostly because their presentation is ridiculous. Like I said, two yuppies at a Starbucks.

Edited March 2, 2006 by bowtie_dude

[Flybrian]

Let it never be said that Pontiac owners lack passion for their cars.

Honestly, IMO, alot of it can be justified. We've all talked about how the interior can be improved and a car carrying the GTP designation should have more oomph to it. As for the review itself, again, it picks at some things that are traits shared by all coupes (big, heavy doors, cramped rear) and I don't see any credibility in the 'complicated stereo' comment as they do a poor job at explaining why this is. Seems like an 'uncomfortable seat'-style copout that is more of a jab than a legitimized complaint. Why are they uncomfortable? Why is it complicated?

As for the Lienerts, this isn't their worst review. Remember the DTS one? I swear Paul was molested by a DeVille when he was five the way it was written...

[enzl]

Not it isn't.  Not only because they don't know jack about cars, but because their presentation is ridiculous.  Like I said, two yuppies at a Starbucks.

They've been writing this column for years...they come from a family full of auto journalists....attacking the reviewers (regardless of the quality of their writing style - I don't like 'em either) doesn't change the fact that the basis of their opinions are well-grounded in fact...and, BTW, its the 'Yuppies' that you deride that are the exact well educated, moneyed, and trend setting people GM needs to succeed...its moronic and shortsighted and an example of the poster's ignorance that he would chose that statement as a put-down...

You want to see an interesting, well thought out article on the state of GM? Check out this months' CAR (UK) magazine - they interview Rabid Rick W. in a well written and insightful manner.

[bowtie_dude]

They've been writing this column for years...they come from a family full of auto journalists....attacking the reviewers (regardless of the quality of their writing style - I don't like 'em either) doesn't change the fact that the basis of their opinions are well-grounded in fact...and, BTW, its the 'Yuppies' that you deride that are the exact well educated, moneyed, and trend setting people GM needs to succeed...its moronic and shortsighted and an example of the poster's ignorance that he would chose that statement as a put-down...

You want to see an interesting, well thought out article on the state of GM? Check out this months' CAR (UK) magazine - they interview Rabid Rick W. in a well written and insightful manner.

Being educated, moneyed, and trend setting doesn't make you a yuppy. Hell, I'm edcuated and moneyed (sorta).

And I LOVE well thought-out reviews with detailed criticism, which is why I prefer to read C&D and R&Ts reviews to anyone elses. While I won't often agree, the writing is WAY better and tactful most of the time. The Lienerts, on the other hand, have neither good presentation or tactful criticism. They say "This is bad," without giving reason and criticize idiotic things like a door being heavy and big, when its no different than every other coupe door.

I stand by my opinion of yuppies. The Lienert's are the kind of people that drive a BMW because its got the blue and white badge on the front and rear without regard to why BMWs are damn good cars.

[enzl]

Being educated, moneyed, and trend setting doesn't make you a yuppy.  Hell, I'm edcuated and moneyed (sorta). 

And I LOVE well thought-out reviews with detailed criticism, which is why I prefer to read C&D and R&Ts reviews to anyone elses.  While I won't often agree, the writing is WAY better and tactful most of the time.  The Lienerts, on the other hand, have neither good presentation or tactful criticism.  They say "This is bad," without giving reason and criticize idiotic things like a door being heavy and big, when its no different than every other coupe door.

I stand by my opinion of yuppies.  The Lienert's are the kind of people that drive a BMW because its got the blue and white badge on the front and rear without regard to why BMWs are damn good cars.

The Lienerts are not good writers, nor well presented...their work is more 'Good Housekeeping' than a legit outlet like DetNews...however, in a brief article (much shorter than the average Road Test in C&D or R&T), its difficult to get into any detail....

I think every GM fan on this site would be doing cartwheels if every 'Yuppie''s default choice was a Caddy or Buick or Saab, and, quite frankly, BMW still makes an excellent product (with a few exceptions). Unfortunately, Pontiac doesn't even get mentioned in the same breath as BMW when the average shopper is queried....that's the tragedy that is the 'elephant in the room' most ignore on this site...

[Snate]

The G6 has some legitimate complaints (like every other car), but most of the stuff they discuss is purely subjective.

Either way...if someone lets a vague and poorly written article like this sway their opinion much then they probably aren't very intelligent.

[bowtie_dude]

The Lienerts are not good writers, nor well presented...their work is more 'Good Housekeeping' than a legit outlet like DetNews...however, in a brief article (much shorter than the average Road Test in C&D or R&T), its difficult to get into any detail....

I think every GM fan on this site would be doing cartwheels if every 'Yuppie''s default choice was a Caddy or Buick or Saab, and, quite frankly, BMW still makes an excellent product (with a few exceptions). Unfortunately, Pontiac doesn't even get mentioned in the same breath as BMW when the average shopper is queried....that's the tragedy that is the 'elephant in the room' most ignore on this site...

Saab has its own fans, people that likely would never buy a BMW or Acura.

Regardless, I don't think yuppies are the buying majority, nor are they trend setters, but trend followers (thats why they're yuppies).

And you're right, Pontiac doesn't often get mentioned in the same breath as BMW. But should it? When a friend of mine speaks of Pontiac, he compares the brand to Mazda or Honda, as he should because thats its competitors. Ponchos don't compete with Bimmers. How could they? A brand whose MSRPs range from $15k-30k should really be compared to a brand whose prices range from $33k-120k.

And I never denied BMWs were fantastic cars, they are. I love BMWs (Bangled models excluded, sans the 6-series). But what I said was that BMW being a fantastic car has nothing to do with the purchase decision of a yuppy. The yuppy buys it because there's a BMW badge on TOP of the hood, not because of what is UNDER the hood. Therefore, the opinion of TWO yuppies is not only subject to little consideration (despite their criticisms being well-grounded, if poorly presented).

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

From Road and Track's review of the GTP Coupe just last month:

QUOTE

The wheel itself is a leather-wrapped 3-spoker with a fat rim section and auxiliary radio controls. The red-numeral gauges are ringed with chrome, easily read and unobscured by the wheel. But the center stack lets us down with its rather monotone look, cheesy radio knobs that belong on a $12,000 subcompact, and an ill-fitting liner for the storage cubby that looks like a stowaway from Rubbermaid's reject pile. On an up note, the graining and appearance of most plastics are now much better, and audio-system controls make up for their lack of presentational sparkle through their straightforward ease of use.

They had a few of the same issues with the "feel" of the nobs and buttons, but apparently are genious's since they found the "complicated stereo system" easy to use.

This is a PRIME example of automotive reviewing being MOSTLY SUBJECTIVE GARBAGE these days... There is NO WAY IN HELL that these reviews should differ that much.

And I never denied BMWs were fantastic cars, they are. I love BMWs (Bangled models excluded, sans the 6-series). But what I said was that BMW being a fantastic car has nothing to do with the purchase decision of a yuppy. The yuppy buys it because there's a BMW badge on TOP of the hood, not because of what is UNDER the hood. Therefore, the opinion of TWO yuppies is not only subject to little consideration (despite their criticisms being well-grounded, if poorly presented).

[classic FOG cheapshot] So wouldn't that make EVERY Toyota buyer a YUPPIE :AH-HA_wink: [/classic FOG cheapshot]

[bowtie_dude]

This is a PRIME example of automotive reviewing being MOSTLY SUBJECTIVE GARBAGE these days... There is NO WAY IN HELL that these reviews should differ that much.

[classic FOG cheapshot] So wouldn't that make EVERY Toyota buyer a YUPPIE  :AH-HA_wink: [/classic FOG cheapshot]

Uh, yeah, actually it would.

[ToniCipriani]

I stand by my opinion of yuppies.  The Lienert's are the kind of people that drive a BMW because its got the blue and white badge on the front and rear without regard to why BMWs are damn good cars.

Reminds me of....

[enzl]

Saab has its own fans, people that likely would never buy a BMW or Acura.

Regardless, I don't think yuppies are the buying majority, nor are they trend setters, but trend followers (thats why they're yuppies).

And you're right, Pontiac doesn't often get mentioned in the same breath as BMW.  But should it?  When a friend of mine speaks of Pontiac, he compares the brand to Mazda or Honda, as he should because thats its competitors.  Ponchos don't compete with Bimmers.  How could they?  A brand whose MSRPs range from $15k-30k should really be compared to a brand whose prices range from $33k-120k.

And I never denied BMWs were fantastic cars, they are.  I love BMWs (Bangled models excluded, sans the 6-series).  But what I said was that BMW being a fantastic car has nothing to do with the purchase decision of a yuppy.  The yuppy buys it because there's a BMW badge on TOP of the hood, not because of what is UNDER the hood.  Therefore, the opinion of TWO yuppies is not only subject to little consideration (despite their criticisms being well-grounded, if poorly presented).

I wasn't taking issue with what you wrote...Mr. Lutz himself has said (in more than one quote) that Pontiac should be an American BMW....He's the product boss, not me.

As for comparisons, the price range you quote does not include the GTO (MSRP 32-35k) or the GP GXP (maxes at $32k+)....both of which should be getting a look from 3-series consumers, IF Pontiac's products were all that....

...that being said, MY point was that Pontiac isn't being thought of...at all. Many Import intenders do not even step in the Pontiac showroom...a tragedy for GM and a legacy that they have not taken the proper steps to reverse at Pontiac...

Other than the Solstice & GTO (both limited production) name me a Pontiac from the last 5 years that has been regarded as anything more than mediocre, by the auto press or the buying public....Saturn is getting their product development money, Cadillac got the previous boost and the crossovers that are coming do not have Pontiac badges (thetas or lambdas)...

It's not Pontiac's fault per se, they seemed to have drawn the short straw. Makes each product they do make more important, which is why the g6's flaws are less forgiveable...

(Oh, BTW, I'd like to see the study that indicated Saab fans don't buy Acuras (FWD sedans) or BMW (Euro-sport sedans)...FWIW, my parents owned an Acura and a Saab up until recently.

Edited March 2, 2006 by enzl

[bowtie_dude]

I wasn't taking issue with what you wrote...Mr. Lutz himself has said (in more than one quote) that Pontiac should be an American BMW....He's the product boss, not me.

As for comparisons, the price range you quote does not include the GTO (MSRP 32-35k) or the GP GXP (maxes at $32k+)....both of which should be getting a look from 3-series consumers, IF Pontiac's products were all that....

...that being said, MY point was that Pontiac isn't being thought of...at all. Many Import intenders do not even step in the Pontiac showroom...a tragedy for GM and a legacy that they have not taken the proper steps to reverse at Pontiac...

Other than the Solstice & GTO (both limited production) name me a Pontiac from the last 5 years that has been regarded as anything more than mediocre, by the auto press or the buying public....Saturn is getting their product development money, Cadillac got the previous boost and the crossovers that are coming do not have Pontiac badges (thetas or lambdas)...

It's not Pontiac's fault per se, they seemed to have drawn the short straw. Makes each product they do make more important, which is why the g6's flaws are less forgiveable...

(Oh, BTW, I'd like to see the study that indicated Saab fans don't buy Acuras (FWD sedans) or BMW (Euro-sport sedans)...FWIW, my parents owned an Acura and a Saab up until recently.

I'm not denying that the G6 doesn't have flaws, it does most certainly. I just have a problem with the way the Lienert's present their criticism, those both grounded in fact and in their opinion.

And I was just speaking from experience about the Saab owners. Most of the owners of Saabs that I know are, well, old, and don't seem like the BMW types. One happens to be the CEO of the company I work for.

[Croc]

And Croc, it's obvious that you are not a GM fan, have nothing to say about Buicks or Pontiacs other than "$h!y interior, $h!ty interior" Yeah, it doesn't match your M-Class, but spend some time in one, and learn something.  I'm tired of this $h!.  Bye Bye.

Well, the interiors ARE $h!ty. If the G6 interior is so amazing, don't you find it funny that even more than a few people on C&G don't like the G6 interior? There was a poll on it not too long ago I believe. Now, use the brain I hope you have and find a single post where I have praised the interior of my M-Class. Because last time I checked, complaining about pieces falling off while driving and having sunroof parts fall on my head isn't exactly faint praise.

You know what I'm tired of? The whole "if you criticize GM you aren't a GM fan anymore" bull$h! that you and others on this site propogate. Grow up. You're making this sweeping generalization about my like/dislike for GM based on how I feel about the interiors of two divisions? Out of......EIGHT divisions? Good God, lay off the crackpipe!

[Croc]

I think R&T hits the nail right on the head.  Like they, many of us, and FOG say, only slight tweeking interior-wise and some powertrain tweeks, and the G6 GTP is a solid competitor.

Bingo! The interior is really the most horrendous part about this car by far, and that aluminum trim kit on eBay really helps it out quite a bit. The exterior design of the sedan is not my favorite, but I love the coupe and convertible. There need to be more fastback shapes on the roads...

[04monteintimidator]

i havent driven a g6 coupe... nor have i seen the interior... i can say from experience (i drive a monte ss supercharged) that a 240 horse v6 provides a nice kick in the rear when you step on the gas... however i really think the G6 coupe... looks way way too much like a totyota solara... when i heard they were makin a g6 coupe i was excited... because the g6 is a nice looking car and a coupe would look even better... but then i saw it and i wuz very dissappointed with it... the taillights are almost mirror images of the toyota solara... and the overall shape is very similar... pontiac is my favorite brand... i dont like the fact that they're selling a car that looks japanese... its very disheartening

[ToniCipriani]

i havent driven a g6 coupe... nor have i seen the interior... i can say from experience (i drive a monte ss supercharged) that a 240 horse v6 provides a nice kick in the rear when you step on the gas... however i really think the G6 coupe... looks way way too much like a totyota solara... when i heard they were makin a g6 coupe i was excited... because the g6 is a nice looking car and a coupe would look even better... but then i saw it and i wuz very dissappointed with it... the taillights are almost mirror images of the toyota solara... and the overall shape is very similar... pontiac is my favorite brand... i dont like the fact that they're selling a car that looks japanese... its very disheartening

The G6 coupe looks nothing like the Solara, if you see it in person.

[turbo200]

When REAL car people were asked to review the G6 GT, here's what they said of the interior.

Car and Driver, January 2005

Asking the Lienert's to review cars is like asking me to review a John Deere tractor.  How the hell do I know what makes a good tractor?  And they obviously don't know what makes a good car.

And keep in mind that C&D editors aren't the most GM fanatical people on the planet, so their compliments on the interior hold A LOT of weight.

unfortunately when you put those people in a Civic and then a G6, back to back, which is car reviewers do every week, they will see the differences immediately. I will get tomatoed and slammed for this, but the G6, as good as it is, still has an unfinished and cheaper feel than cars like the Civic. The civic looks professional, with oragami styling elements which are subjective, but it looks smart and designed by a professional, and the quality is there to back it up. There is a finished look and feel to the panels that escapes the G6. Then there is the lousy and cheap center stack and center console of the G6, which really spoil that interior.

Here's the reason why an interior is so important. A lot of cars these days are incredibly high quality, and can run circles around cars from ten years ago. It becomes a game of image. The image conscious buyer [read: everybody] will buy what car gives the best image that matches thier personality the best and tells people what they want it to say. Whether its success, classy, athletic, fun, wealth, taste......people buy there cars for these emotional reasons. Only for used car buyers, and the buyers of really cheap cars, do these reasons get pushed aside for more practical reasons. But when you can get an incredibly high quality car, like the Civic, that says all the right things, feels the right ways, is practical but can be stylish too [subjective], but most importantly translates that the driver is smart....they chose a car that is smartly designed, in every way, and it satisfies every need they have. The Civic has crafted that image, through great product, through great marketing, through high demand for it. Ultimately it comes down to the basic goodness of the car, and Honda has had a lot of years at the top in this respect......Honda and others to differening levels.....so thier image is well crafted. G6 will need time and much more focus....

[turbo200]

The interior gripes can be legitimized, though I don't get the headline "fails the luxury test"...what? However, alot of the bitches like unspacious rear seating and long, awkward doors are traits of pretty much every modern sportcoupe and could also be said about the Tiburon, tC, Eclipse, etc.

accord and camry have a luxurious feel that escapes the G6, as quiet and nice as it is on the inside, it doesn't meet them....thus the headline.

[turbo200]

BTW, its the 'Yuppies' that you deride that are the exact well educated, moneyed, and trend setting people GM needs to succeed...its moronic and shortsighted and an example of the poster's ignorance that he would chose that statement as a put-down...

quoted for emphasis. Edited March 2, 2006 by turbo200

[turbo200]

I think R&T hits the nail right on the head.  Like they, many of us, and FOG say, only slight tweeking interior-wise and some powertrain tweeks, and the G6 GTP is a solid competitor.

Interior needs a complete overhaul. We're not talking about competing with the current Accord, which is almost to it's fifth year of its lifecycle, but the next Accord which will have an even nicer interior. Read my comment above about the importance of interior design, and overall style and substance of cars in the context of today's world.

None of that negates the fact that the GTP, being the performance upscale model, needs more work on the performance itself, like Chazman alluded to. Make GTP corner flatter, more progressive handler, more nimble, etc.

[turbo200]

Souped-up Pontiac G6 fails the luxury test

By Paul & Anita Lienert

We've been eagerly anticipating a test drive in the 2006 Pontiac G6 GTP, the performance-oriented edition of the slinky mid-size coupe.

In some respects, we weren't disappointed. But the apparent lack of attention to detail, especially in the cabin, was a major letdown.

We tested a well-equipped GTP with nearly $4,000 worth of options and a bottom line of $27,250.

SHE: What a stylish exterior! And that electric blue metallic paint is really eye-catching. But what a comedown to step inside the G6 and look around that flat and uninspired cabin, with the cheap materials, trim pieces that didn't fit together and other jarring features. It's like there was a total disconnection between the interior and the exterior for the Pontiac designers and engineers . And let me tell you that coupe buyers today are fussy. They expect an awful lot, especially if they're paying more than $25,000. Unfortunately, the GTP isn't going to live up to their desires or expectations.

I see nothing wrong with any of this. It's perfect in my opinion. She is the woman, and she is inherently more tied into issues of practicality as opposed to issue of performance, cause she's a woman. Women buy tons of SUVs, men buy ridiculous Corvettes with 500hp engines [read: not my interpretation of the Corvtte, it's not ridiculous at all from my perspective.]

Tony, materials would cost GM around $200 per vehicle. Not putting those dollars into the vehicles is costing them billions of dollars in profit, market share, and image.

HE: I agree with you about that gorgeous shape and color, but I have a slightly different take on the GTP, purely from a mechanical perspective. The G6 shares its basic underpinnings with the Saab 9-3 and several other General Motors mid-size cars. It's a pretty sturdy, well-damped chassis that delivers a smooth and comfortable ride. The GTP gets the high-output 3.9-liter V-6, which is a sweet engine that makes 240 horsepower. Pontiac coupled it with the new six-speed manual gearbox. The shift action is a little stiff, but the throws are precise, and the engine responds beautifully to the slightest throttle input. The four-wheel disc brakes are also above par, but I'm not as fond of the steering, which feels too heavy for a car with such sporting pretensions. It isn't nearly as agile as such competitors as the Scion tC or the Hyundai Tiburon which, incidentally, are priced thousands of dollars below the GTP.

Having sat in and driven the coupe, I can tell you the space is not something you want to be advertising....it's small inside and definitely comparable to the cars mentioned. Now, it is worthwile to note that the GTP offers much higher levels of power, but his point is still somewhat valid. I see nothing wrong with anything else he says. Haven't tested the shifter yet, so I'll take his word for it

SHE: My eyes started to glaze over as soon as I heard the word "mechanical." So let's go back to the cabin, which is where potential owners will spend most of their time. It seems like everywhere you look, Pontiac cut corners. There are major design flaws, too. The steering wheel feels so ungainly -- too thick to grip comfortably and too large in diameter. The center armrest is positioned too far back for shorter drivers to reach. The seat belts are poorly designed and difficult to reach and use. And with that tiny backlight and thick pillars everywhere you look, visibility is terrible.

Again, she is the woman. She has to be practical, she's also frickin fifty, give her a break. And yes, she drives and compares vehicles for a LIVING.....She has driven everything, a thousand times over. She knows what she's talking about. Also, if you hadn't noticed, she is a car critic, it is her job to be nitpicky

HE: I should add a few gripes of my own. The doors are way too long and heavy for comfort. The audio system is overly complicated, even for a techhead and audiophile like myself. And I know what you mean about corner-cutting. Pontiac neglected to put a power recline adjustment on the driver's seat, and the manual control makes it difficult to precisely position the seat back for comfort. And there are no power controls of any sort on the front passenger seat. The rear compartment is just plain primitive-looking, with too little head and leg room for most adults of even average size. And, finally, most of the dials, switches, buttons, gauges and displays all look like they belong on an economy car, not a $27,000 performance model. Yikes! What the heck was Pontiac thinking?

Not even! Civic has much better controls....but I digress. Wth was Pontiac thinking to mar this otherwise fine car in such meaningful ways is exactly right. I can't comment on the heavy doors since I don't have G6 and a couple competitors to back my opinion up at my disposal. Since he does, I'll take his word for it.

SHE: I can't believe we actually agree on something. But I don't want to just complain. Considering the performance, and it was pretty amazing, the GTP gets decent fuel economy -- 18 mpg in the city and 26 mpg on the highway. That's a sweet exhaust note, too. I noticed that antilock brakes, traction control and stability control are all standard on the GTP. What I can't understand is why you have to pay extra for really basic safety equipment, like side air bags and side curtains.

This all sounds really positive. Why? Maybe she actually does like the car, but has a few meaningful gripes.

HE: Pontiac did do something right inside. They moved the ignition key from the steering column to the dashboard. You can order such amenities as adjustable pedals and remote start. But I was surprised that an uplevel car like our test vehicle did not include climate controls with dual settings for driver and passenger. GM, of course, installed OnStar and XM satellite radio as options, but I would rather have spent that money on a navigation system.

SHE: You can't have everything, dear. But for $27,000, I'd like to see a lot more thought and effort go into the G6 cabin -- that is, if Pontiac wants to keep up with the competition

[turbo200]

I think every GM fan on this site would be doing cartwheels if every 'Yuppie''s default choice was a Caddy or Buick or Saab, and, quite frankly, BMW still makes an excellent product (with a few exceptions). Unfortunately, Pontiac doesn't even get mentioned in the same breath as BMW when the average shopper is queried....that's the tragedy that is the 'elephant in the room' most ignore on this site...

heh, Pontiac doesn't get mentioned in the same breath as most Honda buyers, let alone BMW buyers...

[ponchoman49]

Why does the G6 need side airbags and a power passenger seat as std equipment? Christ these cars already weight over 3500 lbs. Adding more of this $h! just increases weight further. Also why does this car need to be 9-10K less? I would say maybe 2-3K. I have always found the interior to be a mixed bag myself. The all black interior is just like looking at black lung. It so needs some more trim to break it up. And putting wood accents in a sporty Pontiac is ludicrous. Also why can't we have a nice two-tone tan or charcoal/gray combo. The comments about the radio are just plain silly. My friends 9 y/o old son could have easily figured out how to use this radio in seconds. And the rear seat is supposed to be tight as it is in every other small, sporty coupe. One thing that had always bugged me about this car and the Malibu also is the horrid cloth seat material used. It gives these cars a certain harsh cheapness that is lacking in the Accord and Camry and feels like something out of a bus.

[jlgolden]

The size, pricing, and performance of the G6 coupe puts it up against rivals like the Mitsubishi Eclipse, Ford Mustang, Tiburon V6, and Accord V6 coupe. Of course, a "basic" Mustang GT is probably a better buy, and the G6 is overpriced by $3k to $4k. But the reviewer's comments that the G6 is overpriced by $8K to $10K??? WTF???

[Snate]

unfortunately when you put those people in a Civic and then a G6, back to back, which is car reviewers do every week, they will see the differences immediately. I will get tomatoed and slammed for this, but the G6, as good as it is, still has an unfinished and cheaper feel than cars like the Civic. The civic looks professional, with oragami styling elements which are subjective, but it looks smart and designed by a professional, and the quality is there to back it up. There is a finished look and feel to the panels that escapes the G6. Then there is the lousy and cheap center stack and center console of the G6, which really spoil that interior.

Here's the reason why an interior is so important. A lot of cars these days are incredibly high quality, and can run circles around cars from ten years ago. It becomes a game of image. The image conscious buyer [read: everybody] will buy what car gives the best image that matches thier personality the best and tells people what they want it to say. Whether its success, classy, athletic, fun, wealth, taste......people buy there cars for these emotional reasons. Only for used car buyers, and the buyers of really cheap cars, do these reasons get pushed aside for more practical reasons. But when you can get an incredibly high quality car, like the Civic, that says all the right things, feels the right ways, is practical but can be stylish too [subjective], but most importantly translates that the driver is smart....they chose a car that is smartly designed, in every way, and it satisfies every need they have. The Civic has crafted that image, through great product, through great marketing, through high demand for it. Ultimately it comes down to the basic goodness of the car, and Honda has had a lot of years at the top in this respect......Honda and others to differening levels.....so thier image is well crafted. G6 will need time and much more focus....

Oh please. The G6 has its share of flaws but apparently you and I have sat in completely different 2006 Civics. The one I sat in at the Chicago Auto show had cheap hard plastic everywhere. The design only made it worse...the "origami" styling you describe not only highlighted the existing gaps but added to them as well. It was much like the Fusion where it looks good in pictures but in person not only looks cheap but feels cheap. Ironically the Accord suffered the same fate too.

The G6 has plenty of interior problems...but please don't use a overrated car riding on its name ala Civic as an example of how we should design and build cars.

Edited March 3, 2006 by Snate

[Croc]

The Fusion? Cheap?? Ummmm, no. They use a very good number of soft-touch materials throughout. Ford interiors lately have been pretty good.

Oh, and the Civic has better materials than the G6, though I cannot stand the Civic's interior design.

Edited March 3, 2006 by Croc

[Matt276]

GM is awful with their interior. I think Lutz said that they would have world class interiors. :rotflmao:

Now I hope the Aura is better.

[Camino LS6]

I just plain don't like the G6, after seeing how far the production car fell from the inspired design of the concept, it has disappeared from my radar. I can't comment on any of the particulars of the G6 because I don't even notice the car at all. I don't think a car like that belongs in the Pontiac lineup regardless of its strong or weak points. It just doesn't fit the division.

Don't forget that my last 2 new cars have been Pontiacs.

[Croc]

I just plain don't like the G6, after seeing how far the production car fell from the inspired design of the concept, it has disappeared from my radar. I can't comment on any of the particulars of the G6 because I don't even notice the car at all. I don't think a car like that belongs in the Pontiac lineup regardless of its strong or weak points. It just doesn't fit the division.

Don't forget that my last 2 new cars have been Pontiacs.

I agree. Had the G6 been the Acura-fighter the concept portrayed we would be all shouting a different story altogether.

[Matt276]

It is sad, the concept was so good looking

[I hope GMRULES again]

Oh please.  The G6 has its share of flaws but apparently you and I have sat in completely different 2006 Civics.  The one I sat in at the Chicago Auto show had cheap hard plastic everywhere.  The design only made it worse...the "origami" styling you describe not only highlighted the existing gaps but added to them as well.  It was much like the Fusion where it looks good in pictures but in person not only looks cheap but feels cheap.  Ironically the Accord suffered the same fate too. 

The G6 has plenty of interior problems...but please don't use a overrated car riding on its name ala Civic as an example of how we should design and build cars.

I agree 100%

[turbo200]

this beautiful, incredibly polished and well finished, professional interior is the top of the line civic

a more humble civic

regular g6 [before new steering wheel design and "improvements"]

the nicely photographed, perfectly lighted rendition of the top of the line G6 at pontiac.com

the real g6 interior

folks, i would like to recommend this car, but if someone tells me after driving it and an accord it just screams cheap, and they would worry people would think they are poor or something, i, sadly, would have to agree with them. this car does scream cheap!

you decide which you like best.

[Flybrian]

People would be worried because people would think they were poor...

Wow...

[turbo200]

either that or people would think they have poor taste....come on you know where i am coming from...though I'm sure this will offend many here. GM interior are less than refined and high class....that's the whole point.

[balthazar]

LOL!

I'd take the concept G6 interior first (in different colors, tho!) and the production (updated) G6 interior second. honda interior is too wacky & weird to be appealing. Hard to tell from the pic, but the 'top-line' honda looks like it has simply dreadful ergonomics. And could the console possibly be any more annoyingly un-centered? Awful, cubed.

Edited March 3, 2006 by balthazar