CR Biased-No Not At All

[The O.C.]

I don't necessarily disagree with SOME of thier picks, however, Consumer Reports is just a big pile of crap in my opinion.

When I was at Buick..........

I'm not sure the year or month of the magazine, but during the '97 generation Regal's life, CR did a comparison test of midsize sedans. As you all know, CR goes out and actually buys test vehicle right off the dealers' lots.

In the test, the Regal came in DEAD last.

The Regal they "bought" and "tested" was a base LS, with cloth seats, and the base suspension and tires. It even had plastic wheel covers.....not even alloys.

No duh that pig-of-a-Regal came in last place.

CR advised us of the test prior to the printing of the magazine. Supposedly that is normal practice to give the manufacturers notice of an article prior to publishing.

At that time, we complained to CR that the test vehicle was not representative of Regals that we were selling.

The majority of Regals that were selling at the time were either more loaded LS models with Gran Touring Suspension, leather, and 16-inch wheels or they were GS models (SC 3800, good susension, tires, etc.) Certainly NOT base models, with plastic wheelcovers, cloth seats, etc.

We (Buick) offered to BUY BACK the base Regal they bought......and offered to locate at a dealer and sell them a Buick that was more representative of what we were selling (a GS or a loaded Y56-packaged LS.) We asked them to retest THAT vehicle for their comparo.

They refused.

They went ahead and printed the comparo.

Then there's the Suzuki Samurai thing.....and the Isuzu Trooper thing.....and so-on.

[The O.C.]

BTW, Just drove in the new RAV4 yesterday.  The whole freaky interior is hard plastic (like the #1 Oddessy) yet GM gets blasted for just having hard lower door panels.

It's the QUALITY of the hard plastic....not whether it's hard or not in the first place.

9 times out of 10, the Japanese do it MUCH better and nicer than GM.

The hard plastics in the RAV4 and Oddessy are matte-finished, nicely-grained, and solid (not brittle or flimsy-feeling) and look good to the eye compared to what you find in the comparable Equinox and Uplander.

(I'll give Uplander credit to the fact that the overall design looks good and the upgraded switchgear seems as nice as the rest of the imports......just that the hard plastic slathered all over that nicely-designed dash is brittle, hollow, and looks and feels cheap....)

[The O.C.]

my friend the other day was whining about how his car expenses went up so much last year. HE got a new Passat and then she had to have a new vehicle too so she got a Pilot.  He was bound and determined to not drive American anymore after a string of about 5 Chryslers (in which case I guess I can see why).  Anyways, he started talking about premium gas and high insurance and not as agood of mpg as he expected.

But at least he's not driving American crap anymore.........

I'm guessing his insurance might be 20% higher and the premium gas is another 5-10% penalty.  The Pilot gets 15mpg and the Passat 4 cylinder barely cracks 20.

But that umbrella holder is SOOOOO worth it.

Here's the kicker.  He's even commented more than once now about the Pilot is not that great and how a lot of stuff seems cheap (to him).  Of course, he wants a Touareg.

And he's already had to have stuff fixed on the Passat.  i bet the Intrepid never had to have the windshield replaced within 6 months of new, do to a stress breakage.

....but the thing is, is most people don't complain about some additional cost in owning those vehicles.....because in most cases, they are more pleasurable vehicles to own compared to most GM products....at least in those consumers' eyes...

I don't complain about having to put premium gas in our cars....because we love driving them. As far as maintenance costs, we don't pay one dime for the X5. (Free maintenance for 4yrs/50K miles.) Sure it (V8) gets $h!ty gas mileage....but it's no worse than any V8 GM SUV....and it performs alot stronger. Our insurance isn't any more either than any other cars we've had.

Because we don't have to pay for any brakes, L.O.F. changes, or other stuff, it makes up for alot of the additional cost of premium gas and stuff.

[regfootball]

oh, I'd have no prob leasing a BMW for that very reason

a few months before I got my aztek 18 months ago, i was choosing between getting a sedan or a family type vehicle for myself.

I had the sedans narrowed down to the CTS and BMW3 on a lease of course. I had my GM card balance for the LDP on the CTS. I had the potential cash windfall on selling my SHO for the CD on the 3 series.

In the end I decided to get the Aztek for my wife and then ended up with my Ford this year because it was lots cheaper to get into cashwise. The CTS with stick hadn't yet gotten the 3.6 so the 3.2 was my only option, but the only 3 series I could consider affording with a 325 without sport package. I thought the CTS was more fun to drive....point is in the end the 3 series free maintenance was a HUGE draw. It would have made it worth the money.

Then when i got into my ford last fall it was tough to consider the CTS because i had no cash proceeds or no GM card rebate to tap into. Now the BMW is prohibitively expensive in all trims (new model). But I do see Gm is offering to top off my earnings. Too bad i'm in my 500 for about another 2 1/2 years.

Edited March 5, 2006 by regfootball

[pow]

oh, I'd have no prob leasing a BMW for that very reason

a few months before I got my aztek 18 months ago, i was choosing between getting a sedan or a family type vehicle for myself.

I had the sedans narrowed down to the CTS and BMW3 on a lease of course.  I had my GM card balance for the LDP on the CTS.  I had the potential cash windfall on selling my SHO for the CD on the 3 series.

In the end I decided to get the Aztek for my wife and then ended up with my Ford this year because it was lots cheaper to get into cashwise.  The CTS with stick  hadn't yet gotten the 3.6 so the 3.2 was my only option, but the only 3 series I could consider affording with a 325 without sport package.  I thought the CTS was more fun to drive....point is in the end the 3 series free maintenance was a HUGE draw.  It would have made it worth the money.

Then when i got into my ford last fall it was tough to consider the CTS because i had no cash proceeds or no GM card rebate to tap into.  Now the BMW is prohibitively expensive in all trims (new model).  But I do see Gm is offering to top off my earnings.  Too bad i'm in my 500 for about another 2 1/2 years.

European Delivery is BMW's version of factory incentives. A base 325i is $26,150 ED invoice + $500'ish dealer profit (no allocation for ED, so they're more likely to deal)... even if you fly there, drive it across the parking lot, and fly back home, you can still save ~$4K. Btw, some dealers are now selling online BMW Factory maintenance extensions (brake pads, rotors, wipers, oil changes, etc) to 6 years/100K miles for $925.

Edited March 5, 2006 by empowah

[The O.C.]

European Delivery is BMW's version of factory incentives. A base 325i is $26,150 ED invoice + $500'ish dealer profit (no allocation for ED, so they're more likely to deal)... even if you fly there, drive it across the parking lot, and fly back home, you can still save ~$4K. Btw, some dealers are now selling online BMW Factory maintenance extensions (brake pads, rotors, wipers, oil changes, etc) to 6 years/100K miles for $925.

.....and you can even pay to get the maintenance program on a Certified Pre-Owned BMW.....(as long as it's within a certain mileage and time period.)

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Anybody read this drivel on the stands yet???

The VERY FIRST page has an editorial on how CR is NOT anti-domestic and in it points out several examples of Japan Inc. building cars here and Detroit outsourcing.... (Which set decent with me, because it was fact and NOT really a smear campaign)

So why did they put this piece out front???

1) Why so defensive CR?!?!?! Guilty conscience????

2) To teach the hippie idiot CR readers how to defend their own clueless asses when they run into people like me that are ITCHING to set them straight???

3) To hype the "Buy Japan to support America" campaign????

4) To defend their ever crumbling credibility????

YOU decide!!!

[Camino LS6]

Consumer Distorts is a circle jerk of self-congratulatory "experts" promoting the agenda of Japan Inc. out of some twisted worship of that culture's perceived superiority. Their methods are nothing short of self-fulfilling prophecy.

Not worth the paper it's printed on.

[Carguy]

Consumer Reports ='s Japan Inc's ((BITCH!!))

[scharmer05]

Anybody here watch the Colbert Report last night, he ripped into CR's top 10 list......LOVED it

[ToniCipriani]

Here:

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_col...ort/index.jhtml

Click on "Spoiler Alert!"

[scharmer05]

yep....colbert rocks

[Polish_Kris]

This thread is so funny.

I know.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

LOL, yep, as usual our resident insiders are "laughing mightily" at us with their condescending attitudes because they know the agenda and what is happening to Detroit.

Then you get the import people laughing along with them (Simply because they're winning by default---I mean, hell when you've sealed the 'insiders' or press/analysts up then you've pretty much got Detroit by the balls)

And it all becomes one arrogant ball of "Hey, I'm better than you" and "Wow, you guys are dumb, AS IF"

And that; is the essence of these ONE LINER posts that contribute NOTHING to the conversation other than to reinforce their false superiority. AND, I might add, the very essence of owning an import in the first place and subscribing to that culture.

Those people seem to think they're better simply by default, and this is reaffirmed by the slurping circle of people who SHOULD know what they're talking about.

:twocents:

[Polish_Kris]

LOL, yep, as usual our resident insiders are "laughing mightily" at us with their condescending attitudes because they know the agenda and what is happening to Detroit.

Then you get the import people laughing along with them (Simply because they're winning by default---I mean, hell when you've sealed the 'insiders' or press/analysts up then you've pretty much got Detroit by the balls)

And it all becomes one arrogant ball of "Hey, I'm better than you" and "Wow, you guys are dumb, AS IF"

And that; is the essence of these ONE LINER posts that contribute NOTHING to the conversation other than to reinforce their false superiority. AND, I might add, the very essence of owning an import in the first place and subscribing to that culture.

Those people seem to think they're better simply by default, and this is reaffirmed by the slurping circle of people who SHOULD know what they're talking about.

:twocents:

Me and Hudson obviously find it funny, cause people on this board blame everyone else besides the domestics for this. Get over it, there is no bias, or conspiracey, it is reality. Complaining that the media chooses imports over domestics, isnt going to change anything. The domestics have to wake up, and see what is happening to them, and actually do something about it. As of now, the Japanese are winning, from delivering better PRODUCT, not because it is an image of any sorts, or conspiracy. If anything, the domestics should be slipping money under the table, to get themselves published in a better light, this is the only thing that could save them right now. Until they wake up, and begin making better products THAN their competitors.

MY :twocents:

Edited March 8, 2006 by Polish_Kris

[prinzSD]

I know.

My Toyota Nazi mother-in law gave us her Coralla with 192,000 miles and praised how it was well maintained and everything was fine and that because it was a Toyata, we would have many more miles and relability from it. A perfect car for my soon to be 16 year old son. Meanwhile my cars are pieces of junk as far as she is concerned. Well lo and behold I was driving the car last week and suddenly at 199, 6xx there was catatrophic failure in the motor. According to the dealer and rod blew apart and they want $2400 to fix it. We took it to another mechanic and he agreed the motor was shot and will replace the motor. Meanwhile my mother in law is making all sorts of excuses, "Maybe you ran over something! Did you maintain it? Well, it is an old car." She even had one of the sons call the shop to verify what I was saying was true. I know all this may be ancedotal, but the point is that import owners are smug about their cars and when something does fail, they can not comprehend how that is possible because it is a Toyota or Honda.

I have driven in her new Prius and noticed the plastics are not much better then domestics and there was a rattle coming from the rear hatch area. Our Lexus has also had issues...so in my experience Toyota are good cars but do not deserve all the great reputation they have.

[njtex]

The problem with CR is that it is a domestic rag. As such, the reliability of their reviews can only be rated "below average". ; )

[El Scorcho]

The problem with CR is that it is a domestic rag.  As such, the reliability of their reviews can only be rated "below average".  ; )

[Petra]

Want to change how the CR results look? Why not subscribe to the magazine, and, when the reliability survey comes in, fill it in with nothing but the "Bullseye" dots. If, as Balthazar says, there may be as little as two or three people responding for each car, then you might be able to bring about an astonishing change in the ratings for some models (obviously, models that sell a lot like the Impala or Tahoe would need a more co-ordinated sabotage effort).

All I'm saying is: If you don't like the way things are, make an effort to change them... because writing long-winded, whiny messages on here about how much CR sucks isn't going to change a damn thing.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Want to change how the CR results look? Why not subscribe to the magazine, and, when the reliability survey comes in, fill it in with nothing but the "Bullseye" dots. If, as Balthazar says, there may be as little as two or three people responding for each car, then you might be able to bring about an astonishing change in the ratings for some models (obviously, models that sell a lot like the Impala or Tahoe would need a more co-ordinated sabotage effort).

All I'm saying is: If you don't like the way things are, make an effort to change them... because writing long-winded, whiny messages on here about how much CR sucks isn't going to change a damn thing.

First, I thought you actually had to own the car in question for CR to send you a survey. And secondly, I've heard that Toyota has ALL of their dealers subscribe and fill out the surveys. WHY doesn't GM do the same thing??? It's common sense..

[I hope GMRULES again]

The problem with CR is that it is a domestic rag.  As such, the reliability of their reviews can only be rated "below average".  ; )

I'm gonna start using that line.

[balthazar]

If you don't like the way things are, make an effort to change them... because writing long-winded, whiny messages on here about how much CR sucks isn't going to change a damn thing.

What's wrong with posting a counter-opinion to their 'findings'? BTW- opening the eyes of the auto consumer to CR's secret practices & demonstrated biases by repeatedly pointing those out WILL change a damn thing- it will devalue & undermine the publication. At some point it could conceivably be rendered irrelevant. I wouldn't mind in the least.

[daves87rs]

Me and Hudson obviously find it funny, cause people on this board blame everyone else besides the domestics for this.  Get over it, there is no bias, or conspiracey, it is reality.  Complaining that the media chooses imports over domestics, isnt going to change anything.  The domestics have to wake up, and see what is happening to them, and actually do something about it.  As of now, the Japanese are winning, from delivering better PRODUCT, not because it is an image of any sorts, or conspiracy.  If anything, the domestics should be slipping money under the table, to get themselves published in a better light, this is the only thing that could save them right now.  Until they wake up, and begin making better products THAN their competitors.

MY  :twocents:

Something tells me you know very little about marketing.

Marketing sells cars-not much else.

If you know how to sell something-heck, you could sell a steaming pile of poo.

Marketing and image sells everything here..

[daves87rs]

My Toyota Nazi mother-in law gave us her Coralla with 192,000 miles and praised how it was well maintained and everything was fine and that because it was a Toyata, we would have many more miles and relability from it. A perfect car for my soon to be 16 year old son. Meanwhile my cars are pieces of junk as far as she is concerned. Well lo and behold I was driving the car last week and suddenly at 199, 6xx there was catatrophic failure in the motor. According to the dealer and rod blew apart and they want $2400 to fix it. We took it to another mechanic and he agreed the motor was shot and will replace the motor. Meanwhile my mother in law is making all sorts of excuses, "Maybe you ran over something! Did you maintain it? Well, it is an old car." She even had one of the sons call the shop to verify what I was saying was true. I know all this may be ancedotal, but the point is that import owners are smug about their cars and when something does fail, they can not comprehend how that is possible because it is a Toyota or Honda.

I have driven in her new Prius and noticed the plastics are not much better then domestics and there was a rattle coming from the rear hatch area. Our Lexus has also had issues...so in my experience Toyota are good cars but do not deserve all the great reputation they have.

It's no worse than than my neighbor telling how great his Ford Focus was regardless the fact it somehow likes to eat batteries...

You are going to have people on both sides living in their own little world. It happens...

Makes you wonder what happened to the old fashion just taking them for a test drive...YOU test em'..and YOU see what you think it best....Mags just don't do it for me...

I've actually driven many new cars from both sides...and they pretty much drive

the same..though we could go back and forth and the differences....

They are not as different as people lke to think...

[balthazar]

Get over it, there is no bias, or conspiracey, it is reality.

This thread is so funny.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Get over it, there is no bias, or conspiracey, it is reality.

This thread is so funny.

[NeonLX]

Anyone remember the issue where Honda's marketing agency...er, I mean "Consumer Reports" tested beer? AHAHAHAHA! Really, they did. I think it was back around 2000. Of course, the beer brewed by Honda was rated "excellent in all respects". It was also judged to be the most reliable when it came to stimulating one's kidneys.

But I really ain't kidding about them testing & rating beer a few years back.

[Petra]

What's wrong with posting a counter-opinion to their 'findings'? BTW- opening the eyes of the auto consumer to CR's secret practices & demonstrated biases by repeatedly pointing those out WILL change a damn thing- it will devalue & undermine the publication. At some point it could conceivably be rendered irrelevant. I wouldn't mind in the least.

Nothing wrong with writing your opinions. It just isn't very productive, especially on a site like this. You're not going to "open the eyes of the auto consumer" talking about how CR sucks on cheersandgears.com.

[prinzSD]

It's no worse than than my neighbor telling how great his Ford Focus was regardless the fact it somehow likes to eat batteries...

You are going to have people on both sides living in their own little world. It happens...

Makes you wonder what happened to the old fashion just taking them for a test drive...YOU test em'..and YOU see what you think it best....Mags just don't do it for me...

I've actually driven many new cars from both sides...and they pretty much drive

the same..though we could go back and forth and the differences....

They are not as different as people lke to think...

I agree, in a nutshell that was basically what I was saying.

[RichW5]

Anyone remember the issue where Honda's marketing agency...er, I mean "Consumer Reports" tested beer?  AHAHAHAHA!  Really, they did. I think it was back around 2000.  Of course, the beer brewed by Honda was rated "excellent in all respects". It was also judged to be the most reliable when it came to stimulating one's kidneys.

But I really ain't kidding about them testing & rating beer a few years back.

Dear NeonLX,

"Sorry to correct you, but we are the designated marketing agency for Honda."

Signed

Motor Trend

[Intrepidation]

You know, cars break down, it doesn't matter who builds them. God himself could build a car and make it perfect, yet it's very possible it could hit a tree...then it's broke Anyway, CR is full of crap. All cars have issues. My `89 Dodge Shadow has a busted motor mount and a fried wiring harness that connects to the HVAC controls..also it has a gas leak on the return line (which shall be fixed tomorrow I hope). It's an old car, it's gonna have problems. But you know what? It's got 204k miles on it and it still goes without complaint, and the engine and drivetrain are original. Now my friend has a `92 Toyota Corolla. Last week the clutch stopped working he said and it's not driveable, then he told me it's actually something to do with the engine not getting fuel properly...point is it doesn't go, lol. As far as interior quality goes, his car has the $h!tiest window cranks and handles I've ever seen. One of the cranks broke once, since it was made out of such chinzy plastic. I can happily say nothing is wrong with the interior of my car Another friend has a 93 Cavalier, and as far as I know he's had no real problems with it. Someone else I know has a `00 Dodge Neon, and not a single problem with it. It just goes to show that every car breaks down eventually, and that while the media bashes domestics for being unreilable, cars like her Neon prove otherwise.

[CARBIZ]

Don't forget that there are far MORE domestics out there to break down and piss people off. The often-trashed J-cars were #1 in their segment right up until when they were discontinued - far outselling either the Mazda 3 or vaunted Civic. Therefore, it will be easier to find disgruntled J-car customers than a Civic or Mazda 3 customer, obviously.

I believe that when someone makes a conscious decision to pay MORE than they should (the Civic being more than the Cobalt, the Camry being more than either the Impala or the Malibu, for example), they would then be loathe to admit they made a mistake. I have seen this many times when dealing with import car owners: they dismiss $300 trips to the dealer as merely "maintenance," and a $2,000 repair bill on their a/c as "normal."

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Let me say that, just yesterday, I saw someone's brand new Toyota Camry had to get a jumpstart from a guy in an Impala.

CR can bite me.

[evok]

I think people should take the time to read this. Though the author is horrible, the book has many glaring errors, analysis is wrong or misguided, naive, over simplified she brings up one point that is carried through the book that is valid and adds to this thread --------------------- Ford and GM's are becoming irrelevant in the US.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/038550769...5Fencoding=UTF8

[bowtie_dude]

I think people should take the time to read this.  Though the author is horrible, the book has many glaring errors, analysis is wrong or misguided, naive, over simplified she brings up one point that is carried through the book that is valid and adds to this thread --------------------- Ford and GM's are becoming irrelevant in the US.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/038550769...5Fencoding=UTF8

Can anything be done to rectify this? As an insider, are you of the opinion that GMs future product is good enough?

[evok]

Can anything be done to rectify this?  As an insider, are you of the opinion that GMs future product is good enough?

I do not have a good feeling about the Big 2 regaining what they have lost. It will be good, but not good enough to change the perceptions of all the people that will no longer consider them.

ie - IMO I think the Enclave is too little too late. On the other hand IMO Saturn will be a winner across the board. So, I have mixed feelings on GM and Ford.

Chevy, Ford, Cadillac, Saturn, Mazda should look good in the market, the rest of the brands are irrelvant.

Just look at how bad Mercury is doing with all the new product.

Edited March 11, 2006 by evok

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Dear NeonLX,

"Sorry to correct you, but we are the designated marketing agency for Honda."

Signed

Motor Trend

:rotflmao:

Just look at how bad Mercury is doing with all the new product.

The Mariner and Milan are doing just fine... That leaves the Montego, which hasn't been a failure by any means.

Let's face it, GM and Ford will never recover (Chrysler was excused when they were whored out to the germans) SIMPLY because the media will ALWAYS enforce THESE perceptions and WILL NOT allow them to recover.

BUT, that said, there is equity in brands... Just look at Nissan and Infiniti.

[haypops]

:rotflmao:

BUT, that said, there is equity in brands... Just look at Nissan and Infiniti.

You mean Datsun don't you?