Fun Facts to Know and Tell

[CSpec]

Number of birds killed by the BP oil spill: at least 2,188 and counting.

Number of birds killed by wind farms: 10,000-40,000 annually.

Number of birds killed by cars: 80 million annually.

Number of birds killed by cats: Hundreds of millions to 1 billion annually.

Don't worry there is some good news.

Number of birds killed by fisheries: tens to hundreds of thousands annually (fortunately for the birds, some of these fisheries are now shut down).

[Drew Dowdell]

More fun facts.

Large water fowl have a very low reproduction rate, such that 2,188 deaths can completely decimate a regional population. Most only produce one chick every year to every 2 years. It will take multiple decades for those bird populations to recover.

Most (but admittedly not all) windfarm bird casualties are from the smaller song bird and medium scavenger varieties. These birds have as many as 6 chicks per clutch and some even have two clutches a year. Additionally, they have a much wider habitat range than water fowl. They can recover from a drastic population reduction in as little as a year.

Yes you'll find some article out there about an eagle chopped up in wind turbine blades, but the Eagle population is growing despite the wind turbines. The water fowl population on the gulf coast will likely be devastated for 20-30 years.

Stop trying to defend this disaster.

[z28luvr01]

How can anyone even attempt to trivialize a 184 million gallon oil spill? How about taking all that crude, and dropping it all on top of your house, your car, your place of business, everywhere you need and want to go, and all pathways in between? You might want to think about this differently.

I'm speechless.

[Z-06]

If BP was in China and if Chinese were as environmentally conscious as we are, some of the top executives would have got gunned down.

There is no defense for BP for continuously ignoring the rig's environmental compliance during operations and continuing to play poor pitiful me cards post-disaster.

[CSpec]

More fun facts.

Large water fowl have a very low reproduction rate, such that 2,188 deaths can completely decimate a regional population. Most only produce one chick every year to every 2 years. It will take multiple decades for those bird populations to recover.

Most (but admittedly not all) windfarm bird casualties are from the smaller song bird and medium scavenger varieties. These birds have as many as 6 chicks per clutch and some even have two clutches a year. Additionally, they have a much wider habitat range than water fowl. They can recover from a drastic population reduction in as little as a year.

Yes you'll find some article out there about an eagle chopped up in wind turbine blades, but the Eagle population is growing despite the wind turbines. The water fowl population on the gulf coast will likely be devastated for 20-30 years.

Stop trying to defend this disaster.

If true, what are the costs of a decimated water fowl population? What about the fact that man-made fisheries in the gulf are responsible for thousands of seabird deaths every year? And where does it say that every single oil-related bird death was the same species?

[CanadianBacon94]

How can anyone even attempt to trivialize a 184 million gallon oil spill? How about taking all that crude, and dropping it all on top of your house, your car, your place of business, everywhere you need and want to go, and all pathways in between? You might want to think about this differently.

I'm speechless.

Edited July 19, 2010 by CanadianBacon94

[Drew Dowdell]

If true, what are the costs of a decimated water fowl population? What about the fact that man-made fisheries in the gulf are responsible for thousands of seabird deaths every year? And where does it say that every single oil-related bird death was the same species?

This oil spill is like a nuclear bomb going off in the water fowl and other ocean going animal populations. A fishery is like a drive by.

In no place did I assume that all of the water fowl population that was killed was all the same species. Remember, this number is just what has been found. It's unlikely we'll ever know the true number.

[A Horse With No Name]

More fun facts.

Large water fowl have a very low reproduction rate, such that 2,188 deaths can completely decimate a regional population. Most only produce one chick every year to every 2 years. It will take multiple decades for those bird populations to recover.

Most (but admittedly not all) windfarm bird casualties are from the smaller song bird and medium scavenger varieties. These birds have as many as 6 chicks per clutch and some even have two clutches a year. Additionally, they have a much wider habitat range than water fowl. They can recover from a drastic population reduction in as little as a year.

Yes you'll find some article out there about an eagle chopped up in wind turbine blades, but the Eagle population is growing despite the wind turbines. The water fowl population on the gulf coast will likely be devastated for 20-30 years.

Stop trying to defend this disaster.

...and this is where I loose all respect for the conservative side of things....

REALITY PLEASE!

[PurdueGuy]

...and this is where I loose all respect for the conservative side of things....

Am I the only one that thinks it's pretty stupid that a disaster has a "conservative" and "liberal" side to it. I'm for fiscally and sometimes for socially conservative government, but I still think BP should be nailed to the wall for this.

[Drew Dowdell]

Am I the only one that thinks it's pretty stupid that a disaster has a "conservative" and "liberal" side to it. I'm for fiscally and sometimes for socially conservative government, but I still think BP should be nailed to the wall for this.

The conservative side of things is saying we shouldn't build windfarms because they are somehow worse than potential oil spills.

[FAPTurbo]

That's not conservatism, liberalism, or neo-liberalism. That's lunacy.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'm just tired of hearing all the politicians bull$h! about it. Either take BP down hard, or STFU.

The time for air filled douchebagery has passed. I want action and I want it now. BP and[\b] the failed government regulators need to be figuratively dragged behind a truck on a dirt road. "We" will feel the effects of this incompetence for decades.

[PurdueGuy]

The conservative side of things is saying we shouldn't build windfarms because they are somehow worse than potential oil spills.

You miss my point, and make it at the same time. How are people so unable to separate fiscal conservatism from the Republican Party, Fox News, etc? One is a reasonable concept, the other are screwed up organizations.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Makes it seem even more ridiculous that there are a bunch of Cali loonies who are erecting billboards slamming Alberta for killing 500 ducks.

[A Horse With No Name]

Am I the only one that thinks it's pretty stupid that a disaster has a "conservative" and "liberal" side to it. I'm for fiscally and sometimes for socially conservative government, but I still think BP should be nailed to the wall for this.

Bingo!

You miss my point, and make it at the same time. How are people so unable to separate fiscal conservatism from the Republican Party, Fox News, etc? One is a reasonable concept, the other are screwed up organizations.

Ding, ding ding...sir...we have a winner.

I would agree with you. My wife, both sons, and oldest daughter are all somewhat fiscal conservatives. sometimes as you say socially as well...

They all pretty much hate the current republican party, fox news, et al...

[Lamar]

I would agree with you. My wife, both sons, and oldest daughter are all somewhat fiscal conservatives. sometimes as you say socially as well...

They all pretty much hate the current republican party, fox news, et al...

I had a student a couple of years ago that was the same way.

[ShadowDog]

Makes it seem even more ridiculous that there are a bunch of Cali loonies who are erecting billboards slamming Alberta for killing 500 ducks.

That also has to do with what responsibilities corporations have to ensure environmental protection measures are in place. If the footage of those ducks being killed in man-made contaminant lakes had not surfaced, how long would it have been before the company was forced to provide reclamation? How many more ducks would die? And worse, how much more contamination would there be to the environment, as a whole, until someone pointed out the problem?

The point I see in all this is the water fowl population is one of many negatively affected species, both visible and practically invisible. Evidence from prior oil spills shows a recovery rate that won't see any return to normalcy for up to 30 years. The region is now toxic. But I suppose some people would choose to view this as an accident with negligible consequences by cherry-picking the affected elements.

Linear thinking at its finest.

[CSpec]

Again, what are the costs associated with a "decimated" water fowl population? How much should we care? Should we also spend a boatload of money trying to save animals that aren't cute and fuzzy?

[Drew Dowdell]

Sorry... we temporarily forgot that it's all about the money.

[z28luvr01]

Here's my best level headed response, which is taking just about everything I have:

The animals that "aren't cute and fuzzy" either a) can't be saved - as soon as a fish breathes crude into its gills it's as good as dead and b) they reproduce at such a rate that their recovery will take a (relatively) shorter amount of time.

A decimated water fowl population alters the Gulf's ecosystem more than you think. They're natural predators for whatever fish they can fit in their beaks. Remove them, and the fish population explodes to the point where there's not enough food for them to go around and they start do die off.

Now for the all important part - how does it affect us? Well, with a decimated fish population caused by a decimated water fowl population, you're now paying 20 a pound at any seafood shop for any fish found in the Gulf.

Bottom line - if social responsibility isn't enough of a reason to get this cleaned up as quickly as possible, then do it so that it minimizes the effect on your wallet, especially if you like seafood.

[Drew Dowdell]

Everything is fine as long as I'm gettin richer...

[FAPTurbo]

A lot of birds from that region travel along the eastern seaboard, all the way up to places like Newfoundland during the spring. For many people in Newfoundland, the economy has been in shambles due to the collapse of the cod fishery which ironically, died off because people thought it was all about the money, and didn't think conservation, social responsibility and quota's were worthwhile until it was too late.

Because so many fish were caught, and even with a moratorium put in place afterwards, the fish has never recovered. Because so much diversity was wiped out, the population has stayed level, and hasn't increased. This will likely be the case with the BP spill; forget calculating the numerical losses, and just try and count how many genes and evolutionary traits were wiped out in one fell swoop. That's what's so dangerous about these things.

So now many people in Nfld, and the Maritimes rely on 'eco-tourism,' yet with this spill jeopardizing those populations of birds like Gannet's that people pay to see, fisherman who've already adapted to their situation once, will likely have to do it again which may depress the region even further. That's even if they can adapt... even Wal-Mart can't employ them all.

If you start treating critters as mere tallies of some corporate bottom line, what does that say about how you treat (or will end up treating) human beings?

[CSpec]

A lot of birds from that region travel along the eastern seaboard, all the way up to places like Newfoundland during the spring. For many people in Newfoundland, the economy has been in shambles due to the collapse of the cod fishery which ironically, died off because people thought it was all about the money, and didn't think conservation, social responsibility and quota's were worthwhile until it was too late.

Because so many fish were caught, and even with a moratorium put in place afterwards, the fish has never recovered. Because so much diversity was wiped out, the population has stayed level, and hasn't increased. This will likely be the case with the BP spill; forget calculating the numerical losses, and just try and count how many genes and evolutionary traits were wiped out in one fell swoop. That's what's so dangerous about these things.

So now many people in Nfld, and the Maritimes rely on 'eco-tourism,' yet with this spill jeopardizing those populations of birds like Gannet's that people pay to see, fisherman who've already adapted to their situation once, will likely have to do it again which may depress the region even further. That's even if they can adapt... even Wal-Mart can't employ them all.

If you start treating critters as mere tallies of some corporate bottom line, what does that say about how you treat (or will end up treating) human beings?

Your intentions are good, but your logic is backwards. The reason the cod fishing industry died in Newfoundland was precisely because it was all about the money. Fishermen saw an opportunity to earn a living by fishing in the coastal waters, thereby feeding a demand for Newfoundland cod, which was presumably tasty and well priced. Abusing a common resource which you depend on is an age-old economic phenomenon called "tragedy of the commons". You can read more about that on Wikipedia.

Now obviously it's not desirable to fish a species to extinction, first of all because fishers will lose their jobs and also it reduces the welfare of those who enjoyed eating said fish. However, a high-handed decree issued from the government of "Thou shalt not fish" is doomed to failure. It's the same reason the drug war is an abysmal failure and Prohibition before that: there are no victims of this "crime", so all you do is push a voluntary exchange into a black market. And you don't fix the tragedy of the commons. The real way to solve overfishing is through property rights. In areas where local politicians aren't paternalist wannabe divine-right tyrants, there have been many successful implementations of "cap and trade" fishing rights. If you create a system of permits which entitle you to fish, and the permits are traded openly on an exchange, then the fishermen have an incentive to maximize the total value of their stock. That is to say, fishermen themselves will go to great lengths to prevent their catch from dying out.

So you see, as economists will tell you, it's all about the incentives. Problems like this are solved only when you think of them as "all about the money". Also, remember that while politicians may intend to bestow all sorts of free lunches with their policies, outcomes are usually not quite so rosy.

[Drew Dowdell]

VIDEO PROOF!

Whales are clearly the cause of water fowl deaths. Forget the oil spill! We should kill all the whales!

[ocnblu]

I understand oil has been seeping into the Gulf from its floor for thousands of years, and there are microbes eating it as it emerges. I understand these microbes have been multiplying exponentially and after Bonnie when the ships came back to resume the cleanup, they were having trouble finding the oil slick because the little guys ate so much of it. I understand they even eat the dispersant chemical BP has been applying. And I understand oil has a large component of volatility for quick evaporation. So nature is taking care of herself, it seems.

Edited August 2, 2010 by ocnblu

[CSpec]

"About three-quarters of the nearly 5 million barrels of oil that escaped Macondo has evaporated, dissolved or been dispersed by chemicals, skimmed by boats, burned, weathered and, most important, devoured by the Gulf of Mexico's permanent oil-eating microbial workforce, according to a study released Wednesday by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and Interior Department."