Recent experience at a Cadillac dealership

[Justin Bimmer]

So, this is going to be my first ever long post about something that I find very troubling. My mother is in the market for a new car. Me being the pro GM extremeist that I am, along with all the men in my family, we told her that she would be replacing her Cadillac with..... a Cadillac. To our shock and later many many heated discussions, she said she wanted a Mercedes. Well, we finally decided on the STS black on black fully loaded with the V6.

I am telling this tale a bit out of order, but I am now going to clue you in on the worst Cadillac dealership in America...... yes I know what you are thinking, this is not possible, but oh yes it is... read my story and see if you can out do this one.

We arrive at Michael Cadillac/Oldsmobile/Hummer (thats what the sign says, its way outdated and the Hummer logo is a cheap decal added onto the oldsmobile sign) and start to look at the selection of cars that are avaialable on the lot. A nice salesmen comes out and greets us and starts showing us some of the cars. I start to ask him questions and he can't answer anything. If you ask this guy how many MPGs the car gets, he isnt bright enough to look at the window sticker and tell you. We sit in the CTS, too small, the STS, which was nice, and the DTS, which was nice, but too big.

We go out for a test drive in the STS and he has to drive us off the lot, understandable, but he was driving us all around and stuff and my mom goes "when do I get to drive the car"... she finally gets to drive it and likes it except for this weird whining noise that the car was making which we didn't know why or the salesmen for that matter.... at this point he mentioned to us that he had previously been selling Hummers and just transfered to Cadillac.

Next stop, the DTS. Personally, if I had fifty grand to plop down on a car, this would be it. I fell in love with this land yaht of luxo goodness. The seats were wonderful and the car was not too big for a 6'4'' guy like me. So after the inital lovefest wore off, I began to notice these scuff marks and stains in a brand new car. When I moved to the front seat, my mom noticed how GM went "el cheapo" on the sides of the seats next to the console by not putting any leather, or even leather like substance there. So by looking at that, I notice a piece of carpet trim that is just dangling there with the fastners EXPOSED! I point all this out to the salesmen and say "how do you expect to sell a Cadillac to somebody when the car looks like this" his answer "the truck drivers are dirty and we will clean the car up before you get it." Hummm..... then I went on to tell him a similar experience about looking at a vandalized Impala on their lot before and that was the deal breaker for me.

So we get back and want to talk price with him a bit. He is ironclad tightlip and won't say anything. So we leave to come back another day.

I get online and do some inventory search and price checking. I find what I believe to be a reasonable lease price for the car that we want with the options that we want. I have plugged numbers into GMAC countless times to make sure that I was doing everthing right and to get a range of reasonable prices.

So we go back to the dealer and tell them which car we want to see. They say they dont have that car and I say that its in their inventory online. All of a sudden it appears in the new arrivals section that closes at 5PM so we better hurry.... I'm thinking that they have to confirm this order in the computer for this car by 5, but the car is there and he is just trying to pressure us, but not doing a very good job. We go look at the car and say thats the one. I mention to him about the 1200 factory cash on the STS lease and he has no clue about that and goes inside again and says its really 1250.

Now, we want to talk price again and he wants to see our trade in. I tell him that we want to talk price first and that we know all the trade in is going to do is improve the price of the lease cause it will bring money in the cap cost of the car. He says management wont deal unless they have all the figures available to them (so now I know they are going to be working backwards from a pre-set lease price).

So we go home and get our trade-in and they appraise it, and frankly insult us on the value of the car, and the "closer" gives the price sheet to our salesmen (who now is more like a customer babysitter than an actual salemen) he walks back over with this pale look on his face, cause he knows his ass is grass, and shows it to us. It was a total joke, I tried in my most calm and collected voice to tell him what was wrong with the price and his closer came over and started getting all combative with me. I asked him how i could have a 20% price difference on the GM website than what they were giving me. He says fees and taxes and I disagreed with him and asked him to break the figure down for me, he wouldn't do it. So he walks over to the computer and pulls up the GMAC calculator and tells me to do what I do, and i punched in the EXACT numbers he had sitting on his sheet and got the 20% lower price that I told him I would get. He then says to me, buy the car from GMAC cause there is no way we can sell you the car at that price.

So we walked out and I called Cadillac customer service and told them about how bad these guys were and how I sold my mom on the Cadillac, not the salesmen and how they were trying to rip us off and basically they thought they were smarter than the customer.

So now we are starting a statewide search for our car, because we are buyers, we just need to find an honest Cadillac dealer out there. It really makes you not have to wonder why people won't buy a Cadillac when you have stuff like this going on out there.

[Newbiewar]

hrmm i wish you were in my area...

my friend just got a STS, and the salesman gave him 200 over invoice without him even asking... he was accually gonna ask for like 400-500 over...

had a car custom built for him, and he's now a happy owner of a STS...

I'm sorry your experiance was so poor... If you want I could help you through the buying process, make sure you get a good deal, you just have to find a dealer that will deal...

[bobo]

It's probably worth the drive down to L.A. to get the car. Most Fresno dealerships are not known for having great deals.

[Dsuupr]

WOW, I thought GM finally got rid of those type of Cadillac Dealer types. Hopefully your call and others will get them to loose the franchise. Better to drive farther than deal with that.

[Cadillacfan]

You're always going to get the A-hole dealers that try to rip off the customer. No matter what the brand. I'm sorry that you had to deal those idiots. Hopefully, the dealership will close when people stop going there.

I hope you can find someone who wants to help you.

[CARBIZ]

Look, in our area the GM website leaves out all kinds of things. The website talks about $179 lease on a Cobalt with $1750 down or something like that, but the "due on delivery" is something like $3,400 with the freight, fees, etc.

The website is a great tool, but often if we are the first dealer they've been to, they keep going because the don't (or don't want to) believe the messenger.

Sounds like this guy was green over all. I"ve seen newbies run around here like chickens with their heads cut off. Management usually wants to keep a tight leash on them for the first few months. Keep in mind that if the new guy screws up, it is management that can be on the hook for his promises/screw ups - and there is a lot that can go wrong with the confusing myriad of delivery credits, rates and residuals that often change WEEKLY from GM and GMAC.

Seasoned veterans realize that they often have to work management more than the customer.

[Flybrian]

I could tell a similar story regarding Cadillac 'service' or lack thereof from one of the oldest and so-called 'reputable' Cadillac dealerships in Florida. Took them three weekdays to look at my car for warranty service, something they're obligated to provide under GM's agreement over ophaned Oldsmobile cars and another five to work on it. This was after a near-hour argument with the service rep over the fact that they're supposed to service Oldsmobiles. No loaner offered and I felt I had to beg for a simple ride home. Poor communication between service rep and myself and my car wasn't even rinsed when it was pulled up for me to pick up - typical 'shop scum' left all over the body. Sure as hell soured me on ever buying a Cadillac from them...God forbid I have to get it serviced. They also sell Land Rovers and 'exotics' like Bentleys and the like. Maybe they should stick to that.

Its a shame places like this still exist and an even greater shame that their selfish franchise actions reflect poorly on General Motors as a whole. Its a sad state of affairs when I'd gladly choose a Goodyear Gemini Service Center and a B-P-GMC dealer I didn't even buy my car from over the Buick dealer I did.

[giantshark18]

I am not sure where you are located, but why buy from a dealer at all. We have bought all 3 of our card from www.carsdirect.com and the price saving were substantial each time. Just a suggestion.

Edited February 24, 2006 by giantshark18

[Newbiewar]

It's probably worth the drive down to L.A. to get the car.  Most Fresno dealerships are not known for having great deals.

haha yea fresno... is that where you are from? haha the only dealership that beats us in volume (in cali) is 3way up in fresno... but they have no competion

You're always going to get the A-hole dealers that try to rip off the customer.  No matter what the brand.  I'm sorry that you had to deal those idiots.  Hopefully, the dealership will close when people stop going there.

I hope you can find someone who wants to help you.

haha, speaking of this, i just saw a chrysler and jeep dealership next to my dealership had picketters outside with a sign that say "Supierior Jeep and Chrysler Rips-Off-Community"

I am not sure where you are located, but why buy from a  dealer at all. We have bought all 3 of our card from www.carsdirect.com and the price saving were substantial each time. Just a suggestion.

You can get a better deal if you go... but thats if you know how to buy ... or you can be hassel free and just see a internet manager or fleet manager, and they'll hook you up just the same.

[The O.C.]

So, this is going to be my first ever long post about something that I find very troubling. My mother is in the market for a new car. Me being the pro GM extremeist that I am, along with all the men in my family, we told her that she would be replacing her Cadillac with..... a Cadillac. To our shock and later many many heated discussions, she said she wanted a Mercedes. Well, we finally decided on the STS black on black fully loaded with the V6.

I am telling this tale a bit out of order, but I am now going to clue you in on the worst Cadillac dealership in America...... yes I know what you are thinking, this is not possible, but oh yes it is... read my story and see if you can out do this one.

We arrive at Michael Cadillac/Oldsmobile/Hummer (thats what the sign says, its way outdated and the Hummer logo is a cheap decal added onto the oldsmobile sign) and start to look at the selection of cars that are avaialable on the lot. A nice salesmen comes out and greets us and starts showing us some of the cars. I start to ask him questions and he can't answer anything. If you ask this guy how many MPGs the car gets, he isnt bright enough to look at the window sticker and tell you. We sit in the CTS, too small, the STS, which was nice, and the DTS, which was nice, but too big.

We go out for a test drive in the STS and he has to drive us off the lot, understandable, but he was driving us all around and stuff and my mom goes "when do I get to drive the car"... she finally gets to drive it and likes it except for this weird whining noise that the car was making which we didn't know why or the salesmen for that matter.... at this point he mentioned to us that he had previously been selling Hummers and just transfered to Cadillac.

Next stop, the DTS. Personally, if I had fifty grand to plop down on a car, this would be it. I fell in love with this land yaht of luxo goodness. The seats were wonderful and the car was not too big for a 6'4'' guy like me. So after the inital lovefest wore off, I began to notice these scuff marks and stains in a brand new car. When I moved to the front seat, my mom noticed how GM went "el cheapo" on the sides of the seats next to the console by not putting any leather, or even leather like substance there. So by looking at that, I notice a piece of carpet trim that is just dangling there with the fastners EXPOSED! I point all this out to the salesmen and say "how do you expect to sell a Cadillac to somebody when the car looks like this" his answer "the truck drivers are dirty and we will clean the car up before you get it." Hummm..... then I went on to tell him a similar experience about looking at a vandalized Impala on their lot before and that was the deal breaker for me.

So we get back and want to talk price with him a bit. He is ironclad tightlip and won't say anything. So we leave to come back another day.

I get online and do some inventory search and price checking. I find what I believe to be a reasonable lease price for the car that we want with the options that we want. I have plugged numbers into GMAC countless times to make sure that I was doing everthing right and to get a range of reasonable prices.

So we go back to the dealer and tell them which car we want to see. They say they dont have that car and I say that its in their inventory online. All of a sudden it appears in the new arrivals section that closes at 5PM so we better hurry.... I'm thinking that they have to confirm this order in the computer for this car by 5, but the car is there and he is just trying to pressure us, but not doing a very good job. We go look at the car and say thats the one. I mention to him about the 1200 factory cash on the STS lease and he has no clue about that and goes inside again and says its really 1250.

Now, we want to talk price again and he wants to see our trade in. I tell him that we want to talk price first and that we know all the trade in is going to do is improve the price of the lease cause it will bring money in the cap cost of the car. He says management wont deal unless they have all the figures available to them (so now I know they are going to be working backwards from a pre-set lease price).

So we go home and get our trade-in and they appraise it, and frankly insult us on the value of the car, and the "closer" gives the price sheet to our salesmen (who now is more like a customer babysitter than an actual salemen) he walks back over with this pale look on his face, cause he knows his ass is grass, and shows it to us. It was a total joke, I tried in my most calm and collected voice to tell him what was wrong with the price and his closer came over and started getting all combative with me. I asked him how i could have a 20% price difference on the GM website than what they were giving me. He says fees and taxes and I disagreed with him and asked him to break the figure down for me, he wouldn't do it. So he walks over to the computer and pulls up the GMAC calculator and tells me to do what I do, and i punched in the EXACT numbers he had sitting on his sheet and got the 20% lower price that I told him I would get. He then says to me, buy the car from GMAC cause there is no way we can sell you the car at that price.

So we walked out and I called Cadillac customer service and told them about how bad these guys were and how I sold my mom on the Cadillac, not the salesmen and how they were trying to rip us off and basically they thought they were smarter than the customer.

So now we are starting a statewide search for our car, because we are buyers, we just need to find an honest Cadillac dealer out there. It really makes you not have to wonder why people won't buy a Cadillac when you have stuff like this going on out there.

Try Martin Cadillac in Laguna Hills/Laguna Niguel, California. We went there to test drive a CTS and they were very helpful....non pressuring....and although we won't be getting a Cadillac, the sales person has been very thorough with his follow up.

[Newbiewar]

i think my friend went to tustin cadillac... but i have to ask...

[Justin Bimmer]

Well, we are calling around now and have contacted the Costco dealer in our area too.... we are going to get what we want eventually.... we will just have to see.

[caddycruiser]

Well, we are calling around now and have contacted the Costco dealer in our area too.... we are going to get what we want eventually.... we will just have to see.

Good. Actually, with the exception of our Suburban, every new vehicle we've bought was ALWAYS from the 2nd dealer we went too, after a horrible experience at #1.

Happened with our '97 Grand Voyager. REALLY happened with our '00 Chrysler 300M. Happened with the '02 Avalanche, just because the first guy insisted we needed 4wd "for resale"..."for resale"..."for resale"...needless to say, we didn't, and that was his only real reason. Couldn't give me a good example of when we'd ever use it living at the beach and driving on-road only, but still...and then, to top it off, insisted buying their abused demo Av Z71 with 7k on it for $100 under invoice was an incredible price...

But, as I said, everyone of the #2 dealers we then went too afterwards were terrific, especially with the 300M and Avalanche. Knew we needed to do a locate/dealer swap to get the Suburban going into it (the whole 2wd thing again), so we ended up just going to the closest GM dealer we have all the service done at and like, and the purchase went well from day one.

Some dealers are horrid...but just think, one day soon, there's a new Caddy in your future

[rueben44]

I feel you man because Stewart Cadillac here in Houston is trash ( on Main Street)! I got my CTS from them and last December a guy hit me in the rear. Well I took it in to them and the bill was 14K, way over priced, but I did not care I was not paying. Anyway they gave me my car back with some type of dry crème in the cracks and damaged my paint by buffing it to hard. Anyway I when in and they totally disrespected me.

Thing is they did not know I am in the market for a new car if sold on it. Anyway they rebuffed it for me and call me a liar. For that Cadillac better come out with something special next year or I will be jumping ship. Saturn is the only GM hope if not BMW, Audi, or Benz will get my money. Dang I just realized how mad I still am about it.

Anyway like you said the best way to deal is to go online with the search. Also see if you can sell your car to Carmax!

[caddycruiser]

I feel you man because Stewart Cadillac here in Houston is trash ( on Main Street)! I got my CTS from them and last December a guy hit me in the rear. Well I took it in to them and the bill was 14K, way over priced, but I did not care I was not paying. Anyway they gave me my car back with some type of dry crème in the cracks and damaged my paint by buffing it to hard. Anyway I when in and they totally disrespected me.

Thing is they did not know I am in the market for a new car if sold on it. Anyway they rebuffed it for me and call me a liar. For that Cadillac better come out with something special next year or I will be jumping ship. Saturn is the only GM hope if not BMW, Audi, or Benz will get my money. Dang I just realized how mad I still am about it.

Anyway like you said the best way to deal is to go online with the search. Also see if you can sell your car to Carmax!

Don't let one awful dealer spoil you on a whole brand...that's why there's so many other fish in the pond.

That being said, after our 300M had so many issues in 18 months and the dealer was BEYOND incompetent in even ordering simple parts correctly, it did sort of sour my mother on ever buying another Chrysler. She'll go as far as saying one or two look nice, but that she'd still never buy another one. So, I kind of see your point...

[03Yukon]

Michael is one of the worst dealers in the valley and it sucks when they are the only Cadillac dealer in Fresno. My brother was planning on buy CTS from them and ended up buying else where. You should go to Merle Stone out in Porterville. That is where he bought his from and they have really good service. The drawback is that it is a little far. There are also Cadillac dealers in Madera, Hanford and Visalia.

[03Yukon]

haha yea fresno... is that where you are from?  haha the only dealership that beats us in volume (in cali) is 3way up in fresno... but they have no competion

3Way is in Bakersfield.

[Flybrian]

Don't let one awful dealer spoil you on a whole brand...that's why there's so many other fish in the pond.

That being said, after our 300M had so many issues in 18 months and the dealer was BEYOND incompetent in even ordering simple parts correctly, it did sort of sour my mother on ever buying another Chrysler.  She'll go as far as saying one or two look nice, but that she'd still never buy another one.  So, I kind of see your point...

The problem is when you live in a more limited market where the next dealer carrying that brand is thirty, fifty, eighty miles away. A bad experience at one will force you to sour that brand because getting decent service may mean more of a hassle than its worth. Another reason why service before, during, and after the sale is so very vital.

[caddycruiser]

The problem is when you live in a more limited market where the next dealer carrying that brand is thirty, fifty, eighty miles away. A bad experience at one will force you to sour that brand because getting decent service may mean more of a hassle than its worth. Another reason why service before, during, and after the sale is so very vital.

Very true, and that was part of the issue with Chrysler. There's another dealer about the same distance away, but in the opposite direction, and they had a bad reputation to begin with...so there was no going there.

This is certainly true with a lot of higher end makes, as the closest Caddy dealer is about half an hour away in either direction, and it takes about 2 hours to get to even the first Acura/MB/Lexus/Infiniti, etc. place...just not at all convenient.

[Charger4U]

sorry dude..waht jackasses

[Sixty8panther]

Wow... sorry to hear that buddy. LIke I've said a milion times having worked at several GM stores in my area I can say wiht confidence that tehri dealers are GMs weakest link. Just like my frined Kenny said the other day, the people selling GM cars are not GM fans or even car guys all they know is $$$.

(this is the dude who traded his almost new '03 Z06 for a brand new '05 GTO)

[RJB]

GM needs to send reps in that work with the dealership network as civilians to see and experience firsthand how crappy some of these dealerships are and how bad they hindering sales overall in some cases. I can't tell you how many times I knew more about the product than the sales person did, answers like 'really I didn't know that' or 'I'll have to look into that'. Unreal!! GM needs to get a standard of excellence across the board that every dealership can be proud of and we the customer can appreciate too.

Edited February 28, 2006 by RJB

[Newbiewar]

'I'll have to look into that'.

this trick is often used to bypass the question... or the salesman wants to take control... sometimes a salesperson accually knows the answer but is being coy for one reason or another...

but for the most part, the consumer already generally knows more about the vehcile then the salesperson, not about everything, but the things that are important to the consumer. Example... I could not tell you the leg room of any of the cars, nor the head room, although a consumer might ask it, to compare, or perhaps they already know because leg room is an issue....

wheel base... again, there is a lot of different cars out there...

I am asked a lot the fuel cappacity... honnestly... i really dont know from vehicle to vehicle... i usually say about 25gallons in a silverado (i think its accually 26 but i'm not positive) but in the colordo its only 19... in an hhr i think its 14 or 15 gallon tank... equinox Uplander? trailblazer

but for the most part if the consumer is asking questions the salesperson is doing a poor job of doing a walk around.

sorry i got onto a rant lol... there is a lot of information to know about cars... and how is one salesperson going to know every question you throw at him. I had a customer ask me if the corvette was faster then a BMW X8... I wasnt sure... cause I didnt know, I told him if the horse power is equal, the vette is likely to win in a straight line...