Ideal Pontiac Lineup

[ToniCipriani]

I thought it over and this is my idea (from small to big):

Solstice Roadster - RWD 2-seater roadster. As-is in the 2006/7 model, including the GXP version. Probably some performance bumps on each.

Solstice Firebird (I don't know why I like this name, although it'll probably get Firebird fans angry) - Essentially a Solstice fastback coupe, a slight focus on trunk space to make it practical. Same trim levels as the roadster. Read: http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...indpost&p=95813

G6 (or possibly reusing the Grand Am name) - FWD midsize coupe and sedans with AWD available, I4 or V6 engines, on Epsilon II:

- SE model with Ecotec engine, and only a few options like ABS, CD player, automatic/manual trannies, power everything. AWD will not be available for this trim. This will be Pontiac's volume car.

- GT model with more amenities like larger rims, performance tuned suspension standard, and AWD becomes available. 3.5L V6 standard.

- GXP model, pure performance model. Performance goodies such as drilled rotors, performance exhaust, limited-slip differential, etc. 3.9L V6, if possible, supercharge it. Essentially the current GTP model on steroids.

Limited run of hardtop convertibles each MY can be considered. We don't need a lot of these.

Grand Prix - RWD V6/V8 sedan. RWD platform shared with Chevy's RWD sedan. Slightly larger sedan than the current GP.

Haven't really thought about the trims for this one, but should be similar with the G6, replacing Ecotec with HF V6 and 3.5/3.9L V6 with LS2 V8. Slightly detuned for GT, full performance with the GXP.

GTO - Essentially a GP coupe, with different front and rear ends, with the exception that the LS7 will be limited availability on the highest end trim.

Torrent - Major refresh, moving styling away from the Equinox. GXP trim available, with a turbo or supercharged V6 engine. FWD models no longer available, and only available with Chevy. This will be the entry SUV for the PBG dealers.

I'll add more when I have more ideas.

[ZL-1]

My wish-list:

Solstice - 2 seater roadster and coupe

G4 - sedan and wagon (and 2+2 coupe, maybe? Perhaps the Solstice's price-range would make it unfeasible)

G6 - coupe/convertible and sedan

They should all be lightweight, RWD (G4 and G6 with optional AWD), all versions with manuals as standards. And without fake wood inside, please.

This beig just a wish-list, I have to say I doubt we'd see such a refocus until the end of the decade, if ever!

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Here's mine:

Sunburst-2-door, 5-passenger fastback sports coupe based on the subcompact front-wheel-drive platform of the upcoming Opel/Vauxhall Corsa. Similar to a future Chevrolet Aveo, this would be different from every subcompact car, in the sense that it would resurrect the subcompact sports coupe market, combining high fuel economy and high performance in SE, SJ, and GT trim levels. SE has the 1.8-liter DOHC ECOTEC 130hp I-4 engine; SJ adds RAM AIR to the 1.8-liter I-4 for 150hp, and GT adds a supercharger for 170hp, all with 5-speed OD manual or 5-speed OD electronic automatic transmissions (the latter with TAPShift II on GT). $13,000-17,000.

Piranha-Directly inspired by one of my favorite latter-day concept cars, the 2000 Piranha, this sporty, 5-passenger front-wheel-drive compact is similar to Chevrolet Cobalt on the Delta II architecture, hoping to take back the sports-performance mid-upscale compact market from chief rival Mazda 3. In addition to regular 4-door notchback sedan and 2-door notchback coupe body styles, an Aerocoupe 3-door, 4-passenger hatchback sports coupe (think Scion tC/Acura RSX rival), REV 4-door, 4-passenger Quad Coupe, 5-door hatchback sports sedan, and SportSafari 5-door hathcback-sports wagon body styles are offered, as opposed to Cobalt's suggested, separate coupe/sedan/wagon lineup. Piranha SJ and Sportec package starts with a 2.2-liter DOHC ECOTEC 145hp I-4 engine and 5-speed OD manual or 5-speed OD electronic automatic transmissions, while GT adds a 2.4-liter DOHC ECOTEC 175hp I-4 optional on SJ (but not Sportec package). GT adds a RAM AIR 2.4-liter DOHC ECOTEC I-4 with 200hp, while Formula Coupe adds a high-pressure turbocharged 300hp 2.4-liter DOHC ECOTEC I-4, with 6-speed OD manual or TAPShift II 5-speed OD electronic automatic (the latter also optional on GT). $15,000-22,000.

Ventura-Similar to Chevrolet Nova and Buick Skylark, the Ventura returns to re-establish the long-lost and forgotten rear-wheel-drive compact car, but this time, a real compact car, but with more efficient use of passenger and cargo room (as with all models). Seating 5 passengers and shortened to a 107.1" wheelbase from the Zeta VE architecture shared with separate Firebird, the Ventura comes in 2-door notchback coupe and 4-door notchback sedan body styles, sportier than a Nova. Ventura SJ starts with the 2.4-liter DOHC ECOTEC 175hp I-4 engine and 5-speed OD manual or 5-sped OD electronic automatic transmissions, while GT has a 3.2-liter DOHC High Feature 230hp V-6 (and optional TAPShift for the automatic). Ventura SD adds a 3.6-liter DOHC HF 255hp V-6, good for 250hp. $17,000-24,000.

Firebird-Like Abbott and Costello and Christ Tucker and Jackie Chan in the Rush Hour movies, the similar Chevy Camaro just has to have its companion, the Zeta VE-based Firebird. As expected, Firebird is rear-wheel-drive and seats 4 passengers in 2-door hardtop coupe and 2-door soft-top convertible body styles. Base Firebird has the same engine and transmission combination as the aforementioned Ventura SD, while the Sprint model-option adds RAM AIR for 270hp. Optional on Firebird and standard on Espirit is the 4.4-liter DOHC UV8 300hp V-8, while Formula adds a 6-speed OD manual or optional TAPShift to a 5300 5.3-liter OHV LS4 V-8 with 340hp. Trans Am adds GTO's 6000 6.0-liter OHV LS2 V-8 with 400hp. $21,000-33,000.

Can Am, LeMans, GTO, Grand Prix, Bonneville and more coming later!

[NOS2006]

I'd say..

• G5: Kappa 4-5 seater; sporty styling.
• G6: FWD; slightly bigger than G5; styled more like the original concept; 2.4L and 3.9L available.
• Solstice: available as coupe and convertible; I4 and I4 turbo'd.
• Firebird: Midsize RWD Zeta coupe with available AWD; V6, V6 turbo, LS3 (Trans Am); styled futuristic, like a mix between Mitsu X Concept, Motor Trend future GTO rendering, and 2003 Trans Am Concept, with hidden lights.
• G8: Full-size RWD sedan off Zeta; available in AWD; comes with variety of engines, in 6 and 8-cylinder variants; GTO coupe option available, with LS3 only.
• G7: Vibe replacement, but much more sporty a la Caliber SRT-4 essence, but much better styled.

Edited February 24, 2006 by NOS2006

[trinacriabob]

Top to bottom:

Full size

Bonneville replacement (get rid of the G8 name, it's garbage): RWD

Mid size

Pontiac Grand Prix: can be FWD or RWD

Compact

G6: (possible name change to LeMans) FWD

Economy/practical/crossover

Vibe or equivalent - FWD

Sporty - pony car

Firebird: RWD

Sporty - specialty

Solstice: RWD

Get rid of the mini-van and the Torrent

Also, probably not enough room for the GTO (unfortunately)

Six cars is plenty.

Also, from top to bottom, the more staid cars will still feature Pontiac's leaning toward better road manners than, say, would a Buick.

[Cory Wolfe]

Bah... you all suck.

Once I am feeling better and this goddamn headache goes away, I'll show you a real ideal Pontiac lineup without alphanumerics, FWD, or questionable ideas. Yes, when it comes to this sort of thing, I like to act arrogant. I mean... I am an insecure cocky Pontiac fanatic.

[Charger4U]

all nice ideas, but i think a retro bonneville would be awesome

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Bah... you all suck.

real[/i] ideal Pontiac lineup without alphanumerics, FWD, or questionable ideas.

Oh, I'm not done yet.... After Can Am, almost everything else is going to be rear-drive. I'd type more out, but I told myself I wouldn't be on for long...

[CaddyXLR-V]

Tempest- CTS sized, RWD, 3.6L and 5.3L and 6.0L coupe and sedan, except the 6.0L coupe will be called GTO.

unnamed car(g6 replacement)- RWD, 3 series size, 2.4L, turbo 2.0L, and DI 3.6L for GXP, coupe and sedan.

Torrent- suv version of the G6 replacement, same engines, 4 door only.

I'll post the rest later.

[pow]

An Uplander with five-spoke wheels, a Cobalt with an extra grille insert, an Equinox with black upholstery, and a rebadged Toyota Matrix. Oh wait...

[ocnblu]

Good one, empowah!

I've participated in these before, but I'll go again because I don't remember exactly what I advocated the last time:

Beta coupe and sedan, RWD entry-level. A real name, no alpha bullcrap. 2.4L standard, 6 speed manual/6 speed manumatic. 2.0 DI Turbo with GXP. Looks must emulate the flagship coupe and sedan (BMW does it). Value price point to blow competitors away. Hardware and looks to make it THE car to have if you're a kid, or just a kid at heart who loves to drive. This would be the hook to build loyalty to the Pontiac brand and keep buyers who'll want to move up within the brand.

Solstice roadster and closed hatchback. No other changes needed yet. Maybe a nice rich orange or bronze color, with saddle leather as an available interior.

Delta-based sportwagon to replace Vibe and Torrent, with AWD only. 2.4L standard with 6 speed manual/6 speed manumatic transmissions. Turbo version on GXP. Totally unique looks from sister car HHR.

What to do with Ep II? I know I don't want any more FWD Pontiacs, but I need a mid-size replacement for G6, called Grand Am, in coupe, sedan, soft top convertible, and perhaps even a wagon (BMW does it). What the hell, let's put this car on a short wheelbase Zeta with DI V6 engines of varying displacements, with a V8 coupe and convertible as the top dog (GTO). 6 speed manual/6 speed manumatic transmissions across the board.

Zeta long wheelbase sedan as flagship, with DI V6 standard in large displacement, V8 optional. 6 speed manumatic transmission. Optional V8 power up to 6.0L. Sister Impala would have 5.3L as top engine, this will give Pontiac room to breathe. Buick Invicta could have 6.0L, but in a slightly more sedate, upscale package.

All of these cars (Solstice is already nailed in looks) would have a new, distinctively Pontiac set of styling cues, meaning heritage without regression, to blow away the competition.

Great design without gimmick (ground effects are sooo 90's) and GM's most relevant new hardware (drivetrain) are what Pontiac needs to succeed.

[sciguy_0504]

Midsize: RWD sedan and coupe; SE (turbo I4), GT (V6), GXP (turbo V6 or natural V8); Beta (will a V8 fit in Beta?)

Large: RWD sedan; SE (V6), GT (V6 with optional V8), GXP (V8); Zeta

Crossover: AWD only; SE (V6), GT (V6 with optional V8); Vue/Equinox platform (currently forgetting the name)

Sport: Solstice at current price point; GTO (with suicide doors); GT (V8), GXP (turbo V8); Zeta

Edit: Above all, everything has to look good both inside and out, and have quality interiors, not to mention being fun to drive. If anything, be fun to drive.

Edited February 26, 2006 by sciguy_0504

[ehaase]

Since Pontiac will only have three or four models and should complement Buick, I think the lineup should be:

1. Vibe - I don't care if it remains Corolla based or moves to Delta platform. But it needs both a small 4 cylinder (either GM's 2.2 or Toyota's 1.8L) and a 2.4L (either Toyota's or GM's).

2. Solstice

3. Small RWD coupe, convertible, and sedan, about the size of the BMW 3 series, with standard 2.4L and optional 2.0L DI turbo from the Solstice. This will replace both the G5 and G6. If GM can't afford a smaller RWD platform, then use SWB Epsilon II. (LWB Epsilon II will replace Buick LaCrosse).

4. Large RWD sedan and coupe (if GM can afford it), about 200 inches long. Dodge Charger competitor. I prefer to keep Grand Prix name, but Pontiac will probably call it G8. 250 3.6L and 320 5.3L V8. GTO version with 400 hp 6.0L V8.

[Northstar]

My Pontiac lineup would use global connections:

G6/replacement: The next Commodore would be the sedan, next Monaro in V6 form would be the coupe. 2.8, 3.6 available on coupe and sedan, LS2 also available on sedan (GXP).

GTO: Next Monaro with the new 6.2L LS2. Some styling differences vs. the V6 versions above.

Solstice: As-is, but add a coupe/hatch.

Vibe: For now I'm not sure what I'd do, but eventually I would hope to move it to "Kappa II" which would be capable of having a second row. The Solstice powertrains would be available, and it would be available as a sedan or wagon.

My plan would count on the next Commodore and Monaro being exciting-looking vehicles, but even if some sheetmetal changes were needed, I think it would be really cheap for GMNA to do.

[NOS2006]

Vibe: For now I'm not sure what I'd do, but eventually I would hope to move it to "Kappa II" which would be capable of having a second row. The Solstice powertrains would be available, and it would be available as a sedan or wagon.

Are you saying.. more Nomad concept-esque?

[Northstar]

Are you saying.. more Nomad concept-esque?

No, I'd essentially make the Vibe Pontiac's 3-Series, but without the coupe (which is why I would add a coupe/hatch to the Solstice line).

[Chicagoland]

2 points I disagree with is the G6 isn't a 'compact'. And the BMW 3 Series isn't 'small'.

A 'realistic dream':

Full sized, Zeta Grand Prix.

Mid sized, Epsilon II G6 with more interior room

Compact - [whatever platform works] Vibe wagon and G5 2 door

Sporty - GTO, Solstice [keep existing plans]

Edited March 3, 2006 by Chicagoland