How big should the next Corvette be?

[regfootball]

Like I said most of the people still do not get who the real Corvette customers are.

or

WERE

[regfootball]

Most people buying this car are now spending the extra coin to make it over well $50K.

It would not cost that much to fix the detail things that give the critics fodder to pick the Vette apart in their eyes.

Chevy is close and could do what they need for little more. The GS is an example of how many people are willing to pay more to get a better car. I expect it to become more popular. Even Chevy has stated they expect it to become the most popular model.

If cost is that much of an issue to these buyers they should be looking to the Camaro. A look at most good 2 seat sports they are as much or more than the Vette. These are not even the super cars. The Boxster, 370z and others are not cheap anymore.

base corvette at 50k i am fine with. but then that base corvette had better have decent sport seats, and an interior that doesn't look like $h!.

what isn't needed is 100k corvettes. especially when the dealer needs to knock 10-15k off the price so it doesn't rot on the lot.

[regfootball]

What's probably going to happen is this:-

Standard Corvette gets a new DI Pushrod V8 and 440~460 hp.

Z06 moves to 550~600 hp with a supercharged version of the engine.

ZR-1 goes on a hiatus until GM wants to do something really crazy towards the end of the C7's life cycle.

not a bad idea actually. zr1 really isn't needed all the time.

what really i think would make waves is about a 380hp basic vette with low weight, like 2999 pounds, and tall gearing to get freakish mpg numbers for a sports car.

i.e. something that would crack 5.0 in the 0-60 which is plenty for a base vehicle, and then something that also could regularly deliver 25 mpg urban and 30+ interstate to most drivers, even with some occasional leadfooting.

[hyperv6]

base corvette at 50k i am fine with. but then that base corvette had better have decent sport seats, and an interior that doesn't look like $h!.

what isn't needed is 100k corvettes. especially when the dealer needs to knock 10-15k off the price so it doesn't rot on the lot.

I am not asking for a 100K Vette. Never have! Like I have stated I am not asking for AWS or GPS. [i know Duel Disc clutch is coming though]

Right now they do a good job on drivetrain and suspension. No one has ever complained here.

I just want them to fix the little detail things that add up like the dash, steering wheels etc. GM gives them so much money and they spend it all on the mechanicals and it leaves little for the interior. The third gen F body suffered the same thing. I know that one for a fact since the past F body manager told me.

What I am asking for is nothing GM designers already what and intended. It just too often gets left on the design floor when the budget guys get the car.

Lap times are great but how many owners set lap records at the Ring? I just want to see the areas fixed where most owners sit or use everytime they get into the car.

Something like a standard Hud on all Vettes would be an advantage and statment on car.

Like Clarkson on Top Gear or not he is fair with the Vette. He loves the performance but is brutally honest with the details.

Some people are so close to the Vette they can not see it without bias. What they are willing to accept is not what owners of other brands are willing to accept. Too often they buy it just because it is a Vette. This is a car GM needs to sell to all people not just Vette fans that are willing to take just what they get.

The changes the Vette needs would all be under 12K. in this class that should be more than accpetable for the improvments it would bring.

The Vette should be able to appeal to a buyer of any brand in all areas of comfort, quality and performance.

[Camino LS6]

Some people are so close to the Vette they can not see it without bias. What they are willing to accept is not what owners of other brands are willing to accept. Too often they buy it just because it is a Vette.

You say that as if it were a bad thing - it's called brand equity. That sort of loyalty is something the car has earned, and it is well-deserved. It is a rare car that remains as true to mission as the Corvette.

This is a car GM needs to sell to all people not just Vette fans that are willing to take just what they get.

This bit is just plain wrong. GM does not need to sell this car to "all people", that would be the death of the Vette.

As for fans "willing to take what they can get", that sells an exceptional car very,very short.

The Corvette is a balancing act, and always has been. GM has been hitting the mark with the car for a very long time now. In the end, the car must do two things: maintain its carefully crafted balance between performance and value, and make a profit.

It does both quite well these days, and I see no reason to suspect that the C7 will fail to keep the faith.

Interior tweaks, and new options are a given - they will happen because the Vette team simply know what they are doing. But they are piddling little details compared to what really matters with this car, they are just flyspeck details blown out of proportion by journalists. The Vette is a car with no ambiguity in its mission, and claiming that it needs to be like any other car is simply absurd.

The Corvette has what every car wishes for: its own territory within the market, a territory that it has itself defined. That, is what a Corvette is.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Camino LS6

[dwightlooi]

not a bad idea actually. zr1 really isn't needed all the time.

what really i think would make waves is about a 380hp basic vette with low weight, like 2999 pounds, and tall gearing to get freakish mpg numbers for a sports car.

i.e. something that would crack 5.0 in the 0-60 which is plenty for a base vehicle, and then something that also could regularly deliver 25 mpg urban and 30+ interstate to most drivers, even with some occasional leadfooting.

You are not going to get to 25/30mpg @ 3000 lbs, a 5.0~6.2L V8, a Cd of .25~.32 and something approx. the frontal area of the C6 Vette. The numbers just don't add up with the BFSC of Otto cycle gasoline engines. I am not going to bore you with all the estimating math, but at 3,000 lbs, a Cd of ~0.26, the expected BSFC gains from a DI V8 and a 20% taller overall ratio you are looking at around 22/28. Not bad at all, but you won't get to 25/30.

I all likelihood though, GM probably won't go for a 20% taller overall ratio unless they also put in a 7 or 8 speed tranny with a ratio spread wider than the current 6.05:1. So we probably won't even get there. My guess will be 21/27 on the Auto (a bit worse on the manual for the freeway numbers due to the narrower ratio spread of the TR6060). Again, best in the world for a 450-ish hp car, and that is good enough.

Edited July 10, 2010 by dwightlooi

[Z-06]

Some people are so close to the Vette they can not see it without bias. What they are willing to accept is not what owners of other brands are willing to accept. Too often they buy it just because it is a Vette. This is a car GM needs to sell to all people not just Vette fans that are willing to take just what they get.

That is exactly what is wrong with GM's mentality. A customer in hand is worth more than 100 customers in the bush. It is not the car that armchair critics looking for Cobalts will buy. There are people who have bought Corvette every year, there are people who have 16-20 Corvettes and do not own any other car. Like it or not, they are the customers who need to be satisfied rather than a customer who may not exist.

And what other performance brand is actually the Vette competing with? None or everyone - because it is a car of its OWN. It does not mix with any other car in the sandboxed car classes, yet it can play with everyone of them. Which other car can fit the description? None. And that is what the Vette Owners, fans want. That has been the credo of the car, that is the credo that has to be maintained. Let the magazines chose which car they want to bring for a comparison with the Vette. It may not win some but it certainly wins many.

I will again repeat, most of the people still do not get who the Corvette customers are, and yes they ARE.

[hyperv6]

You say that as if it were a bad thing - it's called brand equity. That sort of loyalty is something the car has earned, and it is well-deserved. It is a rare car that remains as true to mission as the Corvette.

This bit is just plain wrong. GM does not need to sell this car to "all people", that would be the death of the Vette.

As for fans "willing to take what they can get", that sells an exceptional car very,very short.

The Corvette is a balancing act, and always has been. GM has been hitting the mark with the car for a very long time now. In the end, the car must do two things: maintain its carefully crafted balance between performance and value, and make a profit.

It does both quite well these days, and I see no reason to suspect that the C7 will fail to keep the faith.

Interior tweaks, and new options are a given - they will happen because the Vette team simply know what they are doing. But they are piddling little details compared to what really matters with this car, they are just flyspeck details blown out of proportion by journalists. The Vette is a car with no ambiguity in its mission, and claiming that it needs to be like any other car is simply absurd.

The Corvette has what every car wishes for: its own territory within the market, a territory that it has itself defined. That, is what a Corvette is.

Is the Vette the top of the line GM staus car that no other GM car can out perform? Does it not represent GM in all area's of what they can do? Should it not have the best of anything GM has or can do? IF this car fall short even in the nit pick areas it represent all of GM and where they can fall short.

HArley Davidson has live selling to its base for years on it's heritage. Today Others like Victory have taken their heritage and imporved on it and stolen sales. Harley is not doing as well as they have been.

The Vette has it's area cut out but it sould take and steal sales from all others it competes with. It has improved on this since 1984 but is still leaving potential sales on the table. I am hoping the New GM will let them build the car like they Vette team wants and not make them water down some area just to save a few dollars. If they can address all areas as they have on the drivetrain and suspension there will be little to complain about by anyone.

In todays market being a Vette is good but being what defines what a sports car is is even better.

A no excuse Corvette will not only reflect well on it but on GM as a whole. It is the car to show how the company has really changed. The small details are the key.

The Vette needs to appeal to the sports car fan in general not just the Vette fan. It should cross over bias lines. I am not a Ford fan but appreciate the GT and would not be ashamed to own one. This is what the Vette should strive for. It should have no areas that can be nit picked.

My statement of all people are sports car fans. Not Joe Honda Civic owner who is only wanting 4 doors and economy these are not who we address this too. The Sports car market is more than just make it is the car itself and many people can cross bias lines in this class. The Vette has improved here since 1984 but still falls a little short in some areas.

Give the guy who is thinking of buying a Cayman no reason not to consider the Vette? Is there something wrong with that?

The failful will buy the C7 no matter what. It will come out half will love it half will hate it and they all will buy it in time. The key it to get the people who would wrtite it off just because it is a Vette to love it. We want to make Vette lovers out of Vette haters. Any smart company wants not only to sell to it's base but to others looking in this clas and convert them.

The Vette should remain in the 50K-100K [base-ZR1] price range but if it cost 5-10K more to fix the little things than do it. It will pay off not only on the Vette but all of GM's cars. 5-10K in this class is not anything. If that would keep you from buying a Vette you should not be living in a trailer and buying a Vette anyway.

[balthazar]

Camino LS6 ~ >>"You say that as if it were a bad thing - it's called brand equity. That sort of loyalty is something the car has earned, and it is well-deserved. It is a rare car that remains as true to mission as the Corvette."<<

>>"This bit is just plain wrong. GM does not need to sell this car to "all people", that would be the death of the Vette."<<

Exactly right and exactly right. The relentless unspoken drive to homogenize all cars into one commonality with different badges is a sad commentary on the automotive times.

[Z-06]

You say that as if it were a bad thing - it's called brand equity. That sort of loyalty is something the car has earned, and it is well-deserved. It is a rare car that remains as true to mission as the Corvette.

This bit is just plain wrong. GM does not need to sell this car to "all people", that would be the death of the Vette.

As for fans "willing to take what they can get", that sells an exceptional car very,very short.

The Corvette is a balancing act, and always has been. GM has been hitting the mark with the car for a very long time now. In the end, the car must do two things: maintain its carefully crafted balance between performance and value, and make a profit.

It does both quite well these days, and I see no reason to suspect that the C7 will fail to keep the faith.

Interior tweaks, and new options are a given - they will happen because the Vette team simply know what they are doing. But they are piddling little details compared to what really matters with this car, they are just flyspeck details blown out of proportion by journalists. The Vette is a car with no ambiguity in its mission, and claiming that it needs to be like any other car is simply absurd.

The Corvette has what every car wishes for: its own territory within the market, a territory that it has itself defined. That, is what a Corvette is.

Well said.

[Z-06]

Camino LS6 ~ >>"You say that as if it were a bad thing - it's called brand equity. That sort of loyalty is something the car has earned, and it is well-deserved. It is a rare car that remains as true to mission as the Corvette."<<

>>"This bit is just plain wrong. GM does not need to sell this car to "all people", that would be the death of the Vette."<<

Exactly right and exactly right. The relentless unspoken drive to homogenize all cars into one commonality with different badges is a sad commentary on the automotive times.

Again well said.

It has to and be like a CORVETTE - a TRUE AMERICAN SPORTS CAR. Accept it for what it is and if you do not like it get on the highway and move on.

[hyperv6]

That is exactly what is wrong with GM's mentality. A customer in hand is worth more than 100 customers in the bush. It is not the car that armchair critics looking for Cobalts will buy. There are people who have bought Corvette every year, there are people who have 16-20 Corvettes and do not own any other car. Like it or not, they are the customers who need to be satisfied rather than a customer who may not exist.

And what other performance brand is actually the Vette competing with? None or everyone - because it is a car of its OWN. It does not mix with any other car in the sandboxed car classes, yet it can play with everyone of them. Which other car can fit the description? None. And that is what the Vette Owners, fans want. That has been the credo of the car, that is the credo that has to be maintained. Let the magazines chose which car they want to bring for a comparison with the Vette. It may not win some but it certainly wins many.

I will again repeat, most of the people still do not get who the Corvette customers are, and yes they ARE.

While not mechanically identical there are other sports cars that GM could take sales from the under $100,000K class.

Many of the diehard Vette owners hated the 84 C4. In time now they all have learned it lead to a much better car.

Is it wrong for GM to make a no excuse car in this price range? They are so damn close and it is time to finish the car as it deserves.

The Vette owners as you discribe are the diehards that bought the 74-77 cars that were just plain crap just because it was a Vete. I know and work with many people like this and that is fine if they are willing to accept what ever they are given.

I know for years the Vette team has designed and engineered better cars than GM ever let go to production. The little things that get picked out are things the Vette team would fix if they had the funds or permission.

It is time for GM to stop leaving anything on the table. 85% Is not close enough any more. If GM wants to be the best than build the best. The Vette has represented GM well in for many years of how much they can get right but things like cheap interiors show how GM just can close the deal. Time for GM to show they will close the deal on this car and all other GM cars.

Sorry if I disagree but I know they can do better and just selling the Vette because it is a Vette to the same people is not enough for me. It is like a rac, I do not go just to settle for a top 5 I go to win and I believe in the Vette and believe it can and should win no matter who looks at the car.

As far as I am concerned you are selling the car short. To be the best it must be in all eyes not the bias base.

[Z-06]

Is it wrong for GM to make a no excuse car in this price range? They are so damn close and it is time to finish the car as it deserves.

You would not be asking this question if you knew who the Corvette customers are.

[hyperv6]

Camino LS6 ~ >>"You say that as if it were a bad thing - it's called brand equity. That sort of loyalty is something the car has earned, and it is well-deserved. It is a rare car that remains as true to mission as the Corvette."<<

>>"This bit is just plain wrong. GM does not need to sell this car to "all people", that would be the death of the Vette."<<

Exactly right and exactly right. The relentless unspoken drive to homogenize all cars into one commonality with different badges is a sad commentary on the automotive times.

Do you not want all people to buy this car because it it the best? Right now it is not the best. Close but still not the best.

You know well enough I am not saying build a Cayman clone. I just wast a car that uses better quality and materials that give no comprimise. I have not ever said to change the charicter of the car just make it better in all areas it has lacked in.

Where here did I say to dump the V8 or transverse springs, where have I stated to do away with any trademark Vette hallmarks. I never said to make this a $100,000+ car. I just want to see the best car GM build be their image car in it's class with no questions from anyone.

[balthazar]

No way would I want "all people" to buy a Corvette. No way would I want it to appeal to "all people". It's not supposed to. Nothing in it's segment appeals to 'all people' either.

And news flash- there is compromise on more than 1 level in any car you could possibly name.

There is no such thing as a mass-produced 'no compromise' car.

[hyperv6]

You would not be asking this question if you knew who the Corvette customers are.

So you are saying the Vette base is willing to take less than the best? You are also saying GM should not make the car better to take sales from other brands? In other words lets just keep selling to those who settle for good enough? Even the Harley guys anymore don't want oil leaks.

With that thinking we would still be selling C3 Vettes with Vega steering wheels.

Thank God the Vette Engineers strive for more. I just want them to get what they really want.

Read the book Inside the Corvette by Dave McClelland and see how the Vette team has in the past always gone for what they want and have always had to settle for what they can get. They want more than what you claim the base wants.

The Vette team has fought for years for the kind of things I would like to see. The C7 may get them under new managment? Time will tell.

Who in the Vette base would not accpet a better car? One that they can say is the best in all areas and not just most?

You might be willing to settle but I want the best in class.

[hyperv6]

No way would I want "all people" to buy a Corvette. No way would I want it to appeal to "all people". It's not supposed to. Nothing in it's segment appeals to 'all people' either.

And news flash- there is compromise on more than 1 level in any car you could possibly name.

There is no such thing as a mass-produced 'no compromise' car.

I would not buy a 911 but I have enough miles in them to know I can not say it is a bad car. Appeal may be the wrong term but respected.

Should the comprimise be a interior of Cobalt quality in a $60K+ Vette? Could GM not have done better on the C6?

[Z-06]

So you are saying the Vette base is willing to take less than the best? You are also saying GM should not make the car better to take sales from other brands? In other words lets just keep selling to those who settle for good enough? Even the Harley guys anymore don't want oil leaks.

With that thinking we would still be selling C3 Vettes with Vega steering wheels.

Thank God the Vette Engineers strive for more. I just want them to get what they really want.

Read the book Inside the Corvette by Dave McClelland and see how the Vette team has in the past always gone for what they want and have always had to settle for what they can get. They want more than what you claim the base wants.

The Vette team has fought for years for the kind of things I would like to see. The C7 may get them under new managment? Time will tell.

Who in the Vette base would not accpet a better car? One that they can say is the best in all areas and not just most?

You might be willing to settle but I want the best in class.

All those questions about improvement of the car that you are asking have been already asked and sought answers by a Corvette customer and answers to some have been given by GM, so there is no point to repeat these. Unlike other fanatics of other cars, a Corvette customer is one of the most informed customer who knows where his/her car stands. And that is why there is no point reinventing or changing the wheel into something else.

[balthazar]

911 is not a 'bad car' in your opinion, but is it the best of the best & without compromise ??

Could Porsche have made handling more linear and used less erratic steering (I disremember the exact driving complaint in a recent C&D article vs the Corvette)?

I love how a car successful in it's segment, is 'proof' it's 'done right'... EXCEPT when it's GM/domestic, where it's 'blind dumb loyalists from 1974' driving sales instead of the car itself.

[hyperv6]

All those questions about improvement of the car that you are asking have been already asked and sought answers by a Corvette customer and answers to some have been given by GM, and if a person is asking the same questions speaks volume about how much the person knows about the customer and the car, that is all I am saying. Unlike other fanatics of other cars, a Corvette customer is one of the most informed customer who knows where his/her car stands. And that is why there is no point reinventing or changing the wheel into something else.

As for informed. That is a 50-50 shot. With the lower cost of the car often it falls into hands of those who buy for name only. The Vette owners I deal with daily are the best and the worst people to deal with. Like the Saudi who called to find out what he could get to keep his Z06 from spinning out. It took everything I had not to tell him to get off the gas. LOL! Some are the best informed and the other half are just buying for image. This is not unlike most sports cars as they all get this.

All I ask is it wrong to make what we have better in the needed areas? I in no way ever said reinvent. Just make what you have better. As far as I am concerned I never wanted to see a Mid Engine car.

[Z-06]

As for informed. That is a 50-50 shot. With the lower cost of the car often it falls into hands of those who buy for name only. The Vette owners I deal with daily are the best and the worst people to deal with. Like the Saudi who called to find out what he could get to keep his Z06 from spinning out. It took everything I had not to tell him to get off the gas. LOL! Some are the best informed and the other half are just buying for image. This is not unlike most sports cars as they all get this.

All I ask is it wrong to make what we have better in the needed areas? I in no way ever said reinvent. Just make what you have better. As far as I am concerned I never wanted to see a Mid Engine car.

Since you want it explicitly - Yes knowledgeable Corvette customers believe that there is no checkered flag in the race for improvement. And honestly people who buy for image may not buy again and that is not the customer who you want to keep. There is no point to change the car for these customers because they will spend money even on a Tarted up Aveo if it is called a 911 Turbo and sold with other Porsches.

[Z-06]

911 is not a 'bad car' in your opinion, but is it the best of the best & without compromise ??

Could Porsche have made handling more linear and used less erratic steering (I disremember the exact driving complaint in a recent C&D article vs the Corvette)?

I love how a car successful in it's segment, is 'proof' it's 'done right'... EXCEPT when it's GM/domestic, where it's 'blind dumb loyalists from 1974' driving sales instead of the car itself.

Glad you brought that out. The 911 one has not changed one fracking thing in design, yet it is a success and how the DNA of that car is fantastic. Considering their design team is not spending any time on clean sheet, Porsche may even consider reducing the cost involved in design and passing it onto the customers.

Porsche CEO: Herr Mikaele (designer) time haz come to redesign the 911.

Porsche Designer: Danke Sire, I will dust off the old files from Sire Ferdinand and see what lamps, bulbs I can change.

Magazine Editor: Wow you have put a lot to maintain the car's DNA.

Porsche CEO and Designer: He he he.

[regfootball]

I am not asking for a 100K Vette. Never have! Like I have stated I am not asking for AWS or GPS. [i know Duel Disc clutch is coming though]

Right now they do a good job on drivetrain and suspension. No one has ever complained here.

I just want them to fix the little detail things that add up like the dash, steering wheels etc. GM gives them so much money and they spend it all on the mechanicals and it leaves little for the interior. The third gen F body suffered the same thing. I know that one for a fact since the past F body manager told me.

What I am asking for is nothing GM designers already what and intended. It just too often gets left on the design floor when the budget guys get the car.

Lap times are great but how many owners set lap records at the Ring? I just want to see the areas fixed where most owners sit or use everytime they get into the car.

Something like a standard Hud on all Vettes would be an advantage and statment on car.

Like Clarkson on Top Gear or not he is fair with the Vette. He loves the performance but is brutally honest with the details.

Some people are so close to the Vette they can not see it without bias. What they are willing to accept is not what owners of other brands are willing to accept. Too often they buy it just because it is a Vette. This is a car GM needs to sell to all people not just Vette fans that are willing to take just what they get.

The changes the Vette needs would all be under 12K. in this class that should be more than accpetable for the improvments it would bring.

The Vette should be able to appeal to a buyer of any brand in all areas of comfort, quality and performance.

this is not a literal comparison per se, but a basic miata is what.....25k? and its a genuine hoot, i hear, and a quality piece.

so IMO a basic corvette....v8, 6 speed, decent cloth seats, removable targa for 50k should not be an effing hardship. at 50k i don't expect the magnetic suspension.

look at how the mustang has evolved to a damn fine car at 25 grand with a new v6 and optional perf package.

the vette needs to inspire timeless appeal like all vette's and the way ford has cultivated the mustang. at the same time they sometimes need to tell the vette nerds to eff off and try to reach outside the group for some new appeal. especially youger folks, and those who are not so 'buy American'. The Vette fan base could stand to have a little diversity and not have half its group on social security.

Look at the Harley Sportster. There is always a version that can be had at entry for a ridiculous price, but it still brings big value and the product is there and it brings new buyers into the fold.

One nit, the Vette has supposedly had lousy seats forever. Why not just pay Recaro to make seats for the damn car and stuff em in there, I find it hard to believe it would cost GM that much to improve the seats NOW, especially when the MSRP's are padded 10-20k for the eventual end of season 15k off discount. Spend another 1000 over what is already in there and fix the effing seats.

Edited July 10, 2010 by regfootball

[regfootball]

You are not going to get to 25/30mpg @ 3000 lbs, a 5.0~6.2L V8, a Cd of .25~.32 and something approx. the frontal area of the C6 Vette. The numbers just don't add up with the BFSC of Otto cycle gasoline engines. I am not going to bore you with all the estimating math, but at 3,000 lbs, a Cd of ~0.26, the expected BSFC gains from a DI V8 and a 20% taller overall ratio you are looking at around 22/28. Not bad at all, but you won't get to 25/30.

I all likelihood though, GM probably won't go for a 20% taller overall ratio unless they also put in a 7 or 8 speed tranny with a ratio spread wider than the current 6.05:1. So we probably won't even get there. My guess will be 21/27 on the Auto (a bit worse on the manual for the freeway numbers due to the narrower ratio spread of the TR6060). Again, best in the world for a 450-ish hp car, and that is good enough.

well perhaps a smaller v8 or even a v6 could get there. lots of vette drivers report easily hitting 30 on the highway with theirs now....its just the epa tests won't reflect it. i am talking real world, where you set the cruise at 75, the motor loafs at 1700 rpm or whatever, maybe its only running on 4 cylinders at that point. With only 3000 pounds to haul around plus a driver, not sure why you can't hit 30. My dad get almost 30 in his pig DTS with Northstar, at least when it maintains combustion.

Most urban cars get 20 mpg in normal driving with about 4000 pounds of weight. vette is 3/4 the weight and hess less aero frontage, no reason to think it can't meet 4/3 of the 20 mpg....i.e 4/3 x 20 = 26.6666 mpg. even with the adjustment for bigger displacement and gearing issues, 23 or 24 on the epa scale with a smaller NA 380hp v8 should get that, and that's all a base vette driver really needs.

That would be a nice option to have. Not every Vette driver would want or need 440hp. Do an 8 speed if you need to, other makers are doing it already. Use the tranny in the future Caddy flagship and the commodore too.

Edited July 10, 2010 by regfootball

[Camino LS6]

To quote the Moody Blues:

I've said my piece, now I leave it all up to you"

[hyperv6]

To quote the Moody Blues:

I've said my piece, now I leave it all up to you"

Now on this I can agree!

[hyperv6]

Glad you brought that out. The 911 one has not changed one fracking thing in design, yet it is a success and how the DNA of that car is fantastic. Considering their design team is not spending any time on clean sheet, Porsche may even consider reducing the cost involved in design and passing it onto the customers.

Porsche CEO: Herr Mikaele (designer) time haz come to redesign the 911.

Porsche Designer: Danke Sire, I will dust off the old files from Sire Ferdinand and see what lamps, bulbs I can change.

Magazine Editor: Wow you have put a lot to maintain the car's DNA.

Porsche CEO and Designer: He he he.

Better look within. The outline of the body, the left side ingnition and engine location is the same not much else. I think you will find little has been left unchanged from up date to update. The Germans often fix things that are not even wrong for better or worse.

Edited July 11, 2010 by hyperv6

[dwightlooi]

Let me do a consolidated reply to the dozen or so preceding posts. These represent my opinion and the reasons behind them. I do not claim them to be the only valid opinions.

(1) The Corvette is not a, should not, be a GM halo car. If it is to be a halo, it is at best a Chevy halo, and Chevy is not a luxury marque (Cadillac is). The Vette is not, and should not, be a no expense barred, no compromise, halo car. It is a viable, money making, accessible product and it should remain so. To this end -- like it or not -- it should be designed to a price. A $40~45K base price in 2010 dollars. Personally, I feel that such a product does more for Chevy than the Lexus LFA does for Toyota or the GT-R does nor Nissan.

(2) The question then becomes how do we get world beating appeal from $40~$45K? And, I think the current formula for the Vette is pretty close to except for the sub-par cabin. Chevy can and should put another $1000~2000 into the cabin. It should not however put $10,000 into the cabin -- sensible improvements, not splurges. Nicer finishes, tactile materials, a premium steering wheel and (for once) a set of supportive seats will do wonders and won't cost that much if you stay away from really expensive hides or extraneous features and amenities. Personally, I think that if they can get it to Buick LaCrosse standards, it should be good enough without engaging in the extraneous polishing of chrome.

(3) As far as performance go, 450hp / 3000 lbs is the approximate goal. That is world class. In the interest of heritage, as well as mass and efficiency, the Pushrod V8 can and should soldier on -- but not without the infusion of the latest technology like VVT, AFM and Direct Injection.

(4) Personally, I do not see a big advantage from an 8-speed Auto. Not when the current 6L80 (despite its so-so 6.05:1 ratio spread) is already turning the engine at 1600 rpms at 60 mph and putting out more wheel spin than needed in 1st. Instead of the development time and cost of an 8-speed transmission, GM can take a page from the Mercedes' (or should I say ZF's) playbook. Take the existing 6L80 transmission, dump the torque converter and put in a wet clutch. This improves economy by getting rid of the torque converter slippages and provides for shifts almost as fast as a DSG. Planetary automatics basically slams into gear with the converter taking up the shock anyway in in normal practice, so there is no need to use dual clutches.