An Icon Departs

[Ghost Dog]

GTO was'nt an Iconic name. Deville, El Dorado, Continental, were Iconic names.

[Camino LS6]

GTO was'nt an Iconic name. Deville, El Dorado, Continental, were Iconic names.

You're joking,right?

GTO was immortalized in song, credited with being the first of the musclecars, is one of the most collectible nameplates ever and was part and parcel of the culture of its day. I think you need to check the definition of iconic.

[Sixty8panther]

GTO was'nt an Iconic name. Deville, El Dorado, Continental, were Iconic names.

Are you kidding? No like, seriously did you forget the smiley or something?

GTO no iconic? Ummmm it's recognized by about 65% of the car enthusiast crowd as the FIRST true Muscle car in terms of a basic sleeper with a big motor in the modern sense, it's been burned into the psyche of the red blooded American male as the most bad ass Pontiac and in some cases car ever made and it has overshadowed the original car it was named after (you know Ferrari) in the collector car market.

If GTO is not iconic than what do you call other names like Mustang or Cuda?

Edited February 26, 2006 by Sixty8panther

[The O.C.]

Bland compared to to what? An angy appliance looking TransAm? A Viper? The GTO is not bland.  Tell me what a new GTO should look like? It fits right in with the old school crowd just fine. Compare a 1970 GP to a 2006 GP.

OK.....now take the car, turn it sideways, and look at it again.

[z28luvr01]

Uh, considering that he owns those three GTOs, I don't think he minds how the new one looks.

[CaddyXLR-V]

GTO was'nt an Iconic name. Deville, El Dorado, Continental, were Iconic names.

That must have been a joke. Just because it is not your style of car, you shouldn't make statements and pass them off like the rest of the public agrees with you. I could care less about a Deville, El Dorado, or Continental, or even about those names ever returning, but I dont put them down just because they are not the style of cars I like.

[nikivee]

GTO was'nt an Iconic name. Deville, El Dorado, Continental, were Iconic names.

LOL!! What? Are you on crack?

[nikivee]

OK.....now take the car, turn it sideways, and look at it again.

Looks great.

[funkypunnk]

Like it or hate it, the car deserved better than this.

In America it is supply and demand that determines sales success. Had Pontiac added even a little bit of uniqueness, which BMWs have always had by the way, this car could have sold bunches. Instead we got the equivalent of styling vanilla!

You compared it to the three series many times, yet never explained why this car was expected to succeed even though it never had the individuality of the 3 series!

The GTO quite simply blended in too much for the audience that it was aimed at. I was a part of that audience, a buyer who could afford 35K for a "spare" car and was fuly prepared to buy one with the wife's approval. Then they released the first pictures and even before the dealers could gouge I had already written it off. Throw the new Mustang into the mix shortly thereafter and it is not hard to understand why it failed.

It failed for the same reason the 73 GTO failed. Too much money for not enough GTO! The 73 lacked substance in the powetrain, the new GTO lacked it in the styling!

It really is a Fat Cavalier with one hellUva engine, but I could buy that engine and put it in my 70 LeMans for about 6 grand. For a total of 15,000.00 I could build a better handling and faster car and have enough left over to buy an 05 GTO in a few years!!!!

[Camino LS6]

In America it is supply and demand that determines sales success. Had Pontiac added even a little bit of uniqueness, which BMWs have always had by the way, this car could have sold bunches. Instead we got the equivalent of styling vanilla!

BMW unique? There are swarms of them everywhere I look.

You compared it to the three series many times, yet never explained why this car was expected to succeed even though it never had the individuality of the 3 series!

This is a Pontiac that easily equals a 3series at a huge price advantage

The GTO quite simply blended in too much for the audience that it was aimed at. I was a part of that audience, a buyer who could afford 35K for a "spare" car and was fuly prepared to buy one with the wife's approval. Then they released the first pictures and even before the dealers could gouge I had already written it off. Throw the new Mustang into the mix shortly thereafter and it is not hard to understand why it failed.

So, you never even drove one, did you?  The car DID NOT fail - it was bonus production of an existing platform

It failed for the same reason the 73 GTO failed. Too much money for not enough GTO! The 73 lacked substance in the powetrain, the new GTO lacked it in the styling

Styling is entirely subjective, opinion does not equal truth.

It really is a Fat Cavalier with one hellUva engine, but I could buy that engine and put it in my 70 LeMans for about 6 grand. For a total of 15,000.00 I could build a better handling and faster car and have enough left over to buy an 05 GTO in a few years!!!!

  C'mon now, as cool as a '70 Lemans is it won't outperform a current GTO simply by using the GTO's engine.

Go drive one.

[funkypunnk]

Go drive one.

I drove an 04, nice car but honestly not noticeably more impressive than an 02 Formula.

I drove an 05 and was truly impressed by its' abilities.

The interior is absolutely gorgeous and most likely best in class. If I was buying this car to enjoy from the inside, I would have bought the 05 GTO. Unfortunately I was also buying it to make a statement to the outside world, which the GTO does not except by showing its' taillights.

I could drop in the exact powertrain from the 05 GTO for about 7200.00 total. I could upgrade my suspension, reinforce my frame, and upgrade the interior to be more liveable for another 8,000.00. The interior would not be as nice as the GTOs, but would be nicer than stock and have all of the modern amenities. I am confident it would handle better than the GTO, and by incorporating a dual suspension setup would also ride better as well. Finally, it would be a little quicker as it weighs less than the new GTO. The best part is that my 70 LeMans looks a helluva lot more distinctive and gets alot more stares than an 05 GTO ever has.

Take the 15K off of the 32K asking price and I have 17K left which will buy me a 3 year old 05 GTO in few years. Then I get the best of both worlds!

As far as the 3 series being everywhere in swarms, people don't tend to look at the 3 series and think Chevrolet, yet people who see the new GTO do tend to think that is as vanilla as a Chevy.

[Camino LS6]

I drove an 04, nice car but honestly not noticeably more impressive than an 02 Formula.

I drove an 05 and was truly impressed by its' abilities.

The interior is absolutely gorgeous and most likely best in class. If I was buying this car to enjoy from the inside, I would have bought the 05 GTO. Unfortunately I was also buying it to make a statement to the outside world, which the GTO does not except by showing its' taillights.

I could drop in the exact powertrain from the 05 GTO for about 7200.00 total. I could upgrade my suspension, reinforce my frame, and upgrade the interior to be more liveable for another 8,000.00. The interior would not be as nice as the GTOs, but would be nicer than stock and have all of the modern amenities. I am confident it would handle better than the GTO, and by incorporating a dual suspension setup would also ride better as well. Finally, it would be a little quicker as it weighs less than the new GTO. The best part is that my 70 LeMans looks a helluva lot more distinctive and gets alot more stares than an 05 GTO ever has.

Take the 15K off of the 32K asking price and I have 17K left which will buy me a 3 year old 05 GTO in few years. Then I get the best of both worlds!

As far as the 3 series being everywhere in swarms, people don't tend to look at the 3 series and think Chevrolet, yet people who see the new GTO do tend to think that is as vanilla as a Chevy.

Well, if you don't like the looks - no biggie. Many people seem to though, I get "nice car" and smiles and other positive reactions from total strangers all the time with mine. Not that it matters much, I fell in love with the car the first time I drove one. I don't spend a ton of time looking at it but I like the look. The real payoff is driving it and listening to the exhaust.

Actually, I'd love to see you do the Lemans project you laid out - sounds like it would be fun. You'd have to prove the rest of it to me though.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the '05 GTO might stay a bit more expensive than you think a few years out, but I'm glad to hear you say you'd buy one.

[GMinTheDriveway]

As far as the 3 series being everywhere in swarms, people don't tend to look at the 3 series and think Chevrolet, yet people who see the new GTO do tend to think that is as vanilla as a Chevy.

Hmmm, I always get as "vanilla" as a 6-series BMW or CL coupe which are the overpriced EU cars that are actually in the same class as the 04-06 GTO. Start throwing a little money at it and you end up with an AMG or M fighter, not a bloated sunfire. The advantage is also stealth, although more than a few people have hurt their necks craning to see my car from every angle- and it looks stock.

[61Elkamino]

The car was not marketed properly at all.

Had it been offered on the Chevy side as well, it might have done

better all around. I mean, Chevy sells the same car in Saudi Arabia

as the Lumina!?! If GM would have brought the car over as a Chevy

Chevelle or Lumina, and the Pontiac version as the Tempest, and offer

both cars as a base model with a V-6, with the high horsepower V8s in

a SS/GTO optional version, then I think it would have caught on.

Not everybody wants a "balls to the wall" musclecar. A nice rear

drive sports coupe with a V6 might have been the thing to offer now

that gas is $2.00+ a gallon.

[Camino LS6]

The car was not marketed properly at all. 

Had it been offered on the Chevy side as well, it might have done

better all around.  I mean, Chevy sells the same car in Saudi Arabia

as the Lumina!?!  If GM would have brought the car over as a Chevy

Chevelle or Lumina, and the Pontiac version as the Tempest, and offer

both cars as a base model with a V-6, with the high horsepower V8s in

a SS/GTO optional version, then I think it would have caught on. 

Not everybody wants a "balls to the wall" musclecar.  A nice rear

drive sports coupe with a V6 might have been the thing to offer now

that gas is $2.00+ a gallon.

I couldn't agree more, but it wasn't possible. Holden didn't have the capacity at the time, the UAW would have screamed bloody murder, and the FTA wasn't in place yet. There should have been a plan to build the car here in place and ready to go before the cancellation of the F-body twins. It would have made all of that possible.

BTW: your screen name has me wondering if you've been doing a little custom work on an early Impala. :AH-HA_wink:

[61Elkamino]

I couldn't agree more, but it wasn't possible. Holden didn't have the capacity at the time, the UAW would have screamed bloody murder, and the FTA wasn't in place yet. There should have been a plan to build the car here in place and ready to go before the cancellation of the F-body twins. It would have made all of that possible.

BTW: your screen name has me wondering if you've been doing a little custom work on an early Impala. :AH-HA_wink:

Nope. I haven't worked on any Impalas. I'm a Camaro man myself. The screen name is just a play on my birthdate and last name.

[nikivee]

From the Cleveland Plain Dealer...

New GTO coming around the bend

Wednesday, March 01, 2006

Joshua Dowling

Special to The Plain Dealer

Geneva, Switzerland- The Pontiac GTO isn't dead after all, says a top General Motors Corp. executive, who also hinted there might be a new ultra-fast Corvette coming.

The current GTO will be phased out at the end of this year, but an all-new model is expected to return at the end of 2008 as a 2009 model, said Bob Lutz, who heads GM's global vehicle development.

In an interview at the international auto show in Geneva, Switzerland, Lutz also suggested an even more powerful version of the Corvette might be on the way.

Industry insiders have talked about a "Blue Devil" Corvette that would be more powerful than the 505-horsepower Z06 that is currently the fastest Corvette.

Lutz stopped short of confirming that, saying: "There will be something special for the Corvette soon." When "Blue Devil" was mentioned, he simply smiled.

The GTO, however, is definitely on the way.

Last year, it appeared that GM had canceled any future GTOs as part of its efforts to reduce costs. And a Pontiac spokesman confirmed this year that the last GTOs would be sold this summer because the model wouldn't meet a new airbag standard taking effect in the fall. The spokesman said that the automaker would like to have another GTO but that there was nothing to announce.

But in the interview Tuesday, Lutz said the GTO plans were just off the shelf for a few months and he always wanted a new version.

The new GTO might be built in North America, particularly if the Chevrolet Camaro concept gets the go-ahead for production, he said.

Both the Pontiac GTO and Camaro could be based on GM's Zeta mechanical underpinnings, which are being developed by the company's Australian outpost, Holden, Lutz said.

With the current strength of the Australian dollar and the recent free-trade agreement between Australia and the United States, it would be more feasible to build the GTO in North America and export a version called the Holden Monaro to Australia, he said.

The GTO, which is based on the Monaro, has been built in Australia and shipped to America.

Dowling is motoring editor of the Sydney Morning Herald.

Edited March 1, 2006 by nikivee

[Camino LS6]

HMM, could be time for an "I Told You So!"

[Sixty8panther]

Thsi thread brakes my heart. GM really should have done exactly what 61Elkamino suggests. I've said things to that effect as well.

Remember, one thing that makes the Mustang a sales success is the fact that 65% or so are V6 Grocery getters.

[Intrepidation]

I really do feel bad for the GTO...it definitelly deserves better than this fate. Yes, the main reason is cuz Holden is phasing out the platform, but it's like no one in the mdeia seems to care.

Do you guys remember the very first GTO commercials where it was dark and all you could see was the rear tires making a smoke show. What a teaser, I got so excited about it.

Still, styling is a bit of an issue. Without the scoops and stuff it kinda does look like a Cavalier's big brother. The interior looks great, and the LS2 is a sweet engine. If Pontiac had been smart, they would have offered the Ram Air 6 appearance package. the concept looked badass, had they put it into production it would have shut all the critics up about it's styling. I do hope the GTO gets another chance later on, it deserves it.

Look at that sexy beast!

Edited March 2, 2006 by Dodgefan

[04monteintimidator]

oh man... i love the ram air 6 design sooooo much... it manages to still look the same as the current GTO without looking like it at all... if that makes any sense... its also retro... without being retro... its just so... amazing... have you ever seen the numbers for it tho? the performance is absurd... it had like 575 horse and upwards of 500 lb/ft of torque i think that alone was the reason GM said no to it... it wouldve been much more powerful than the 'vette... because the entire car looks like it wouldve been able to be produced... but then again... this was just a design competition within GM and a group of interns... yes i said interns... drew this up

[Intrepidation]

Yeah it was quite the powerhouse. But even if they didn't put any of the performance upgrades, just puuting the ram air 6 package on the stock GTO would have done wonders for it. I emailed Pontiac once saying they should build it. they said something along the lines of "We're glad you like it, but we don't plan to build it, sorry." Idiots.

I know what you mean though, it keeps the essance of the stock GTO but spices p the design. BAM! Too bad it as never built.

[nikivee]

I guess you guys haven't heard. GTO is back on track for 2008. This thread was premature as usual.

[z28luvr01]

Not really. I wrote this article because I felt strongly that the current Monaro-based model got a royal screwjob by everyone I mentioned. That hasn't changed with today's good news.

I gotta admit, ever since I wrote this article, I've really, really badly wanted a GTO. If I could afford a garage and an extra monthly payment, I'd take a drive to Camino's house with cash in hand.

[ponchoman49]

Another thing that has happened over the past 6 or 7 years is the wan in popularity of 2 door coupes. The Eldorado and Riviera were both dropped. The Grand Prix coupe and now the Chrysler and Dodge coupes are done. Add the styling issues or lack of and trying to get people to fork over more than sticker prices for a coupe along with the things mentioned in the article and it was doomed for failure from the start. I rarely ever see Accord coupes and Solaras in my area. But there are tons of sedans everywhere you look. The 60's, 70's and 80's fascination with the 2 door coupe is sadly a thing long in the past. Thanks goodness there is still a market for pony cars like the Mustang and true sports cars like the Vette or roadsters like the Sky/Solstice.

[Guest flowmotion]

I've said it before, but if you are going to call it a "GTO", make it a muscle car. If you are going to sell a Monaro, you might as well just call it a "Monaro". You don't compete with the 3-Series with a name like "GTO".

I'll bet the next GTO is a lot more in line with the original -- cheaper and meaner.

And for all the people talking about the 1960s Tempest -- forget it, the public had wised up by 1970. You can't sell a car based on a performance package and a badge alone anymore.

Edited March 15, 2006 by flowmotion

[Bandit 1]

Man that not cool. They could have put a new front end and some bigger wheels on it until they had a new platform for it. I really liked the GTO's, but they still should have stuck with the Camaro & Trans Am the whole time.

No more GTO

[Northstar]

I was speaking with one of the managers at the dealership, and he was talking about the GTO since I have one. He said he thinks if GM had named it something other than GTO it would have done a lot better, and I agree. He said that everyone expected it to look like an old GTO, even though he didn't agree with that (he said it's not 1965 anymore), and that's why everyone was turned off by the looks.

I think that sums it up pretty well right there.