An Icon Departs

[z28luvr01]

An Icon Departs – How America Failed the GTO

By z28luvr01

By now you’ve all read the news that GM will be ending GTO production this model year. The last batch of GTOs is scheduled to be completed around September, marking the end of a three model year stint as Pontiac’s performance flagship. I’m here writing this to help give the car a proper send off, something that the finest all-around car GM has graced North America with in a long, long time should be entitled to. It is my opinion that, during its three year stay on our shores, that the GTO never got the fair shake it deserved. Not only is it the quickest, most athletic GTO ever made, it boasts performance credentials that could give any similarly priced European or Japanese competitor a run for its money. Any car boasting those qualities deserves better treatment than what the GTO got.

The Car:

The GTO can trace its roots to 1998 Sydney Auto Show, when GM Austrlian subsidiary Holden unveiled a concept depicting a coupe variant of the then new Commodore sedan. Reaction to the car was overwhelmingly positive, and the coupe came to life in 2001 as the Monaro, a nameplate as endearing to Australians as GTO is to Americans. The car presented a unique combination of American muscle and European refinement and driving dynamics. Simply put, the Monaro was a car that GMNA really needed.

After Bob Lutz spearheaded a campaign to bring the Monaro to the US as the GTO, the car received a few changes. The most significant of which is the relocation of the gas tank to comply with US crash standards. Aside from the obligatory cosmetic changes to make the car into a Pontiac, the other changes were made to enhance its performance credentials. The 350hp LS1 from the base Corvette was used instead of the standard Monaro V8, an increase of about 50hp.GM engineers developed a true dual exhaust system for the car, complete with that distinctive muscle-car era burble. Priced at around $33,000, the GTO picked up right where the top-of-the-line F-bodies left off, and then some. It provided handling prowess and overall refinement that last-gen F-body owners could only dream about.

In 2005, the GTO gained quite a few performance and appearance upgrades. The LS1 was retired and replaced by the 400hp LS2 V8 developed for the sixth generation Corvette. The car received bigger brakes all around to help control the extra power. New hood scoops, thought by many to be a GTO styling hallmark, were added as an option. The exhaust system was re-routed so that the tailpipes were on opposite ends of the car (2004 models had both tailpipes on the driver’s side). Also, a new sport appearance package added aggressive looking ground effects, spoiler, and front and rear fascias.

An Unexpected Reaction

During the early part of this decade several magazines as well as auto enthusiasts looked at Holden’s vehicle lineup with admiration. Motor Trend in particular envisioned the Commodore as an Impala replacement and the Ute as a return of the El Camino. Knowing this, once would assume that the arrival of the Monaro, the best looking of the Holden variants, would be met with a positive reaction. Unfortunately that was not the case, as critics dismissed the car for its exterior styling. Words were not kind, either, as things like ‘fat Cavalier’ and ‘bloated Grand Prix’ were frequently used to describe it. Pontiac marketing tried to put a spin on it, saying that new car represents what a GTO would look like had it been allowed to continue instead of stopping production in 1974. Noone bought into it, however. With bold, heavily retro influenced cars like the 2005 Mustang and Chrysler 300C getting all the positive press, the GTO was seen as a design failure, despite a superior powertrain, interior, and chassis. Each model year, GTO sales fell short of intended targets.

What Went Wrong?

One would think that a car with such an impressive pedigree as the GTO would take America by storm. Obviously that did not happen, and there’s plenty of blame to spread around:

• The media: As I alluded to earlier, the media outlets literally begged GM to bring the Holden Monaro to our shores. Back them its styling was even praised, believe it or not, as it represented the polar opposite of the design language in use by Pontiac at the time, generally the butt of many jokes within the enthusiast community. In the relatively short time it took to bring the car here, that praise turned into disdain. In my opinion that just wasn’t fair to the car. Apparently they were so enamored by the new Mustang and Chrysler LX cars that every car released thereafter had to be measured against them whether it made sense or not. The truth is, GTO is not a full sized sedan, and has several qualities that make it worthy of being advertised in a higher price and in a higher class than the Mustang.

• Pontiac Marketing: GM had to walk a tightrope in marketing the new GTO. Trying to avoid another PR nightmare with enthusiasts who were still in shock over names like Impala, Malibu, and Monte Carlo being applied to FWD bread-and-butter cars, GM needed to make people believe this new car was worthy of the most revered muscle car nameplate of all time. Things started off on the right foot, with the GTO starring in a made-for-TV movie and getting its share of commercials. Lately, however, it’s been a different story, as Pontiac has shifted its marketing focus to the Solstice, and the GTO hasn’t gotten much airtime in over a year. The overall feeling I get is that GM marketing sold the GTO short. Its credentials and price point place it squarely in BMW 3 series territory. Instead of going after those buyers, Pontiac fell into the trap of pitting it against the Mustang (see above), and previous GTOs (in reality all but impossible to do). The 2005 GTO brochure on my shelf is loaded with references to the Mustang GT. In doing that, they set themselves up for a failure, as people looking in the Mustang’s price class would naturally see the GTO as too expensive. Had the car been marketed as a “3 series: American Style”, it might have had a better fate.

• Dealers – Perhaps anticipating a huge demand for the GTO, overzealous dealers went overboard in applying “market adjustments” to the GTO’s MSRP. It was not uncommon to see a 2004 GTO with a price tag north of $40,000. With the car being derided for its price being several thousand dollars over the Mustang, dealers commanding several thousand dollars obviously didn’t help. By the end of the 2004 model year, dealers relented on attempting to gouge prospective GTO buyers – even offering incentives on them – but the damage had already been done.

• The American car buying public: Well, not all car buyers, just the ones who read magazines and watch commercials and think they’ve gathered enough information to form a valid opinion on a car. I can’t think of any other reason to explain how a society so fond of the previous generation 3 series could not find this car attractive. The GTO is a car that needs to be driven to be believed. Having merely sat in one, I can appreciate the driver oriented-ness of the interior as well as its build quality and refinement, which is up there with the finest European cockpits. Test drives of the GTO have still been positive (minus the obligatory “styling” comments), and the 12,000 or so people that bought them each year (including several GTO owners on this board) are happy with them. The people dismissing the GTO before experiencing it fully have missed out on a lot.

Conclusion

In a few months, the last of these GTOs will hit our shores, undoubtedly followed by dozens of articles about how it was too expensive, too boring, and an overall failure. After three years of dumping on the car, I would not expect anything less than that for a final kick in the rear bumper. What I’m asking the readers to do is this: when you’re reading those articles, take into account all that you’ve read here. The GTO didn’t fail – it was failed. A fickle car-buying public and greedy dealerships combined with inept journalism and poor marketing created a perfect storm to derail any chance of this fine car being remembered as a success. Like it or hate it, the car deserved better than this.

[siegen]

I don't understand why the GTO didn't go anywhere, it is a great performance car for the price, probably even more bang for the buck than the corvette. It probably had to due the most with styling, it didn't really look like what it was trying to be.

[Variance]

I totally agree with this article. Outstanding car, outstanding price/value and yet it failed. It hurts thinking about it. Whenever the day comes when I'm lucky to get a hold of one, I'm going make sure to enjoy every moment of it.

[capriceman]

Great and very truthful article!

I thought that the GTO is getting canned because Holden is going to stop making the Monora (sp).

Edited February 23, 2006 by capriceman

[Camino LS6]

Great and very truthful article!

I thought that the GTO is getting canned because Holden is going to stop making the Monora (sp).

Monaro.

And yes, that's the main reason but not the whole story.

[Clownzilla]

Many people complain about the styling, but I bought my 04 with that as a plus for me. Don't get me wrong, I like bold, but there are quite a few people that want to feel thrilled without being a showoff. The best driving experiences I have ever had were in that car. To tell you the truth, people who knew what it was KNEW what it was. It just wasn't like driving a Ferrari down the street. I think if Toyota made the same car it would of been a sucess, this shows AGAIN how the American public wants GM to die, but

people like us won't let it!

[Sixty8panther]

Remember that term "Hiatus" we kept hearing from 2001 to 2005 every time corporate was asked about the Camaro? :wink:

Edited February 23, 2006 by Sixty8panther

[Variance]

A thought just occured to me about the next GTO. If GM thinks the GTO didn't do well due to people whining about the "Grand Prix-like" styling of the current one, I'm slightly concerned they are going to go overboard with the next one and make it a horrid-looking overwrought thing. Oh, I hope my fears are unfounded. I'd rather have a retro-styled GTO than have that happen.

[The O.C.]

I don't understand why the GTO didn't go anywhere, it is a great performance car for the price, probably even more bang for the buck than the corvette. It probably had to due the most with styling, it didn't really look like what it was trying to be.

Well, I pretty much like the GTO....but don't know if I'd buy one.....don't know if I wouldn't either....I'm kinda neutral...

I think it's too high-priced.....especially against (people hate this..) the Mustang V8 coupe.

Styling.....too bland. I know this is subjective, but the car just doesn't excite me. It doesn't offend me either, but it's just kinda there.

Great engine......crappy shifter. Why can the C6 have such a nice 6-speed and the GTOs is so vague and sloppy?

Still......no sunroof option....? (although Mustang doesn't offer one either...but at least you can choose the ragtop.)

The car was a rush to market. I think in the end, the compromises that we had to accept due to the speed Lutz brought it to market probably conspired against its success.

[Munson05]

Very good article. The dealer mark ups I know cant be stopped but i truly think it hurts GM. I looked in 2004 and it was marked up to 38k at my local Pontiac dealer . On top of it the salesman was a jerk off. Any way I wound up buying a Silverado SS. Loved having it but 10 Miles to the gallon got old. So on A whim I test drove a 2005 GTO. Need less to say the SS was on the Pontiac lot and I drove home my 05 Goat. The look of the car grew on me. I wound up paying 32k for my GTO and I think it was a bargain. The Mustang looks cool but everyone i have spoken to says its kind of slow. Any way to buy a Stang around here the dealers I spoke to wanted around 30 k so a difference of a few grand you get a very fast car 400/400 IRS comfy interior. I think mechanically its far superior in its stock form to the Stang in stock form. I do wish more people would drive it they would be impressed. I agree about GM dropping the ball on advertising. I do believe it was called GTO it would have done much better. Maybe if it was the new Grand Prix or a Tempest, who knows. I honestly Love my car.

[Northstar]

First, let me say as an owner that I think that at the price point, people expected more luxury options available, such as: sunroof, heated seats, NAV available, etc. I would like to have heated seats in the winter and a sunroof would be nice, but it's not a deal breaker for me because I enjoy just driving the car. However, with other people who may be looking at a G35 or 330Ci, they expect a sunroof and heated seats, etc., to at least be optional.

Second, let me respond to OCs post because I agree with some and don't agree with other points.

I think it's too high-priced.....especially against (people hate this..) the Mustang V8 coupe.

Styling.....too bland.  I know this is subjective, but the car just doesn't excite me.  It doesn't offend me either, but it's just kinda there.

Great engine......crappy shifter.  Why can the C6 have such a nice 6-speed and the GTOs is so vague and sloppy?

Still......no sunroof option....?  (although Mustang doesn't offer one either...but at least you can choose the ragtop.)

I don't think the price is too high. A Mustang GT may have similar performance and compete with the GTO, but the GTO has a much better interior (IMO the Mustang interioris garbage), and if you get 10 speakers (GTO has that standard), 18" wheels, and the interior upgrade package (so it's at least decent), it's within a couple thousand of the GTO, and last time I checked the 2005 GTOs had a $2500 rebate.

The GTO also has a 6-way power passenger seat that the Mustang doesn't offer (or at least I didn't see it when I built one), and the GTO's rear seats are also much more useable than the Mustang.

Agreed the styling could be better, but I think the SAP package really makes it look pretty damn good if you want to spend the extra $$.

I can't comment on the 6-speed since I have the auto.

Agreed about the sunroof as stated earlier.

BTW, nice article Z.

[nikivee]

Why does that post sound like an obituary? I'm not convinced the GTO is dead forever.

Edited February 24, 2006 by nikivee

[turbo200]

I'm not convined of it either, but product news for Pontiac these days seems more and more distressing.

[samuel]

An Icon Departs – How America Failed the GTO

By z28luvr01

By now you’ve all read the news that GM will be ending GTO production this model year. The last batch of GTOs is scheduled to be completed around September, marking the end of a three model year stint as Pontiac’s performance flagship. I’m here writing this to help give the car a proper send off, something that the finest all-around car GM has graced North America with in a long, long time should be entitled to. It is my opinion that, during its three year stay on our shores, that the GTO never got the fair shake it deserved. Not only is it the quickest, most athletic GTO ever made, it boasts performance credentials that could give any similarly priced European or Japanese competitor a run for its money. Any car boasting those qualities deserves better treatment than what the GTO got.

The Car:

The GTO can trace its roots to 1998 Sydney Auto Show, when GM Austrlian subsidiary Holden unveiled a concept depicting a coupe variant of the then new Commodore sedan. Reaction to the car was overwhelmingly positive, and the coupe came to life in 2001 as the Monaro, a nameplate as endearing to Australians as GTO is to Americans. The car presented a unique combination of American muscle and European refinement and driving dynamics. Simply put, the Monaro was a car that GMNA really needed.

After Bob Lutz spearheaded a campaign to bring the Monaro to the US as the GTO, the car received a few changes. The most significant of which is the relocation of the gas tank to comply with US crash standards. Aside from the obligatory cosmetic changes to make the car into a Pontiac, the other changes were made to enhance its performance credentials. The 350hp LS1 from the base Corvette was used instead of the standard Monaro V8, an increase of about 50hp.GM engineers developed a true dual exhaust system for the car, complete with that distinctive muscle-car era burble. Priced at around $33,000, the GTO picked up right where the top-of-the-line F-bodies left off, and then some. It provided handling prowess and overall refinement that last-gen F-body owners could only dream about.

In 2005, the GTO gained quite a few performance and appearance upgrades. The LS1 was retired and replaced by the 400hp LS2 V8 developed for the sixth generation Corvette. The car received bigger brakes all around to help control the extra power. New hood scoops, thought by many to be a GTO styling hallmark, were added as an option. The exhaust system was re-routed so that the tailpipes were on opposite ends of the car (2004 models had both tailpipes on the driver’s side). Also, a new sport appearance package added aggressive looking ground effects, spoiler, and front and rear fascias.

An Unexpected Reaction

During the early part of this decade several magazines as well as auto enthusiasts looked at Holden’s vehicle lineup with admiration. Motor Trend in particular envisioned the Commodore as an Impala replacement and the Ute as a return of the El Camino. Knowing this, once would assume that the arrival of the Monaro, the best looking of the Holden variants, would be met with a positive reaction. Unfortunately that was not the case, as critics dismissed the car for its exterior styling. Words were not kind, either, as things like ‘fat Cavalier’ and ‘bloated Grand Prix’ were frequently used to describe it. Pontiac marketing tried to put a spin on it, saying that new car represents what a GTO would look like had it been allowed to continue instead of stopping production in 1974. Noone bought into it, however. With bold, heavily retro influenced cars like the 2005 Mustang and Chrysler 300C getting all the positive press, the GTO was seen as a design failure, despite a superior powertrain, interior,  and chassis. Each model year, GTO sales fell short of intended targets.

What Went Wrong?

One would think that a car with such an impressive pedigree as the GTO would take America by storm. Obviously that did not happen, and there’s plenty of blame to spread around:

• The media: As I alluded to earlier, the media outlets literally begged GM to bring the Holden Monaro to our shores. Back them its styling was even praised, believe it or not, as it represented the polar opposite of the design language in use by Pontiac at the time, generally the butt of many jokes within the enthusiast community. In the relatively short time it took to bring the car here, that praise turned into disdain. In my opinion that just wasn’t fair to the car. Apparently they were so enamored by the new Mustang and Chrysler LX cars that every car released thereafter had to be measured against them whether it made sense or not. The truth is, GTO is not a full sized sedan, and has several qualities that make it worthy of being advertised in a higher price and in a higher class than the Mustang.

• Pontiac Marketing: GM had to walk a tightrope in marketing the new GTO. Trying to avoid another PR nightmare with enthusiasts who were still in shock over names like Impala, Malibu, and Monte Carlo being applied to FWD bread-and-butter cars, GM needed to make people believe this new car was worthy of the most revered muscle car nameplate of all time. Things started off on the right foot, with the GTO starring in a made-for-TV movie and getting its share of commercials. Lately, however, it’s been a different story, as Pontiac has shifted its marketing focus to the Solstice, and the GTO hasn’t gotten much airtime in over a year. The overall feeling I get is that GM marketing sold the GTO short. Its credentials and price point place it squarely in BMW 3 series territory. Instead of going after those buyers, Pontiac fell into the trap of pitting it against the Mustang (see above), and previous GTOs (in reality all but impossible to do). The 2005 GTO brochure on my shelf is loaded with references to the Mustang GT. In doing that, they set themselves up for a failure, as people looking in the Mustang’s price class would naturally see the GTO as too expensive. Had the car been marketed as a “3 series: American Style”, it might have had a better fate.

• Dealers – Perhaps anticipating a huge demand for the GTO, overzealous dealers went overboard in applying “market adjustments” to the GTO’s MSRP. It was not uncommon to see a 2004 GTO with a price tag north of $40,000. With the car being derided for its price being several thousand dollars over the Mustang, dealers commanding several thousand dollars obviously didn’t help. By the end of the 2004 model year, dealers relented on attempting to gouge prospective GTO buyers – even offering incentives on them – but the damage had already been done.

• The American car buying public: Well, not all car buyers, just the ones who read magazines and watch commercials and think they’ve gathered enough information to form a valid opinion on a car. I can’t think of any other reason to explain how a society so fond of the previous generation 3 series could not find this car attractive. The GTO is a car that needs to be driven to be believed. Having merely sat in one, I can appreciate the driver oriented-ness of the interior as well as its build quality and refinement, which is up there with the finest European cockpits. Test drives of the GTO have still been positive (minus the obligatory “styling” comments), and the 12,000 or so people that bought them each year (including several GTO owners on this board) are happy with them. The people dismissing the GTO before experiencing it fully have missed out on a lot.

Conclusion

In a few months, the last of these GTOs will hit our shores, undoubtedly followed by dozens of articles about how it was too expensive, too boring, and an overall failure. After three years of dumping on the car, I would not expect anything less than that for a final kick in the rear bumper. What I’m asking the readers to do is this: when you’re reading those articles, take into account all that you’ve read here. The GTO didn’t fail – it was failed. A fickle car-buying public and greedy dealerships combined with inept journalism and poor marketing created a perfect storm to derail any chance of this fine car being remembered as a success. Like it or hate it, the car deserved better than this.

Blah, blah, blah. There is ONE very SIMPLE reason that the GTO failed. It looks like a bar of soap. That's IT, nothing else. It is not that it is not retro, it is that it just looks BORING. Not because it doesn't look like a 65, but because it looks BORING. The new Camaro, if it happens, will do well for the same reason the Mustang is doing well, because it looks GOOD. The GTO was a hell of a car, but it's an image car, and you can't sell a BORING looking image car to that many people.

That is the whole story right there. You can do all the analysis you want, you can point your fingers at the car mags, etc, etc. The simple truth is that the car looked like a Cavalier and not many people will pay $30K for something that looks like a Cavalier. The proof is in the pudding, not many people did buy it. We live in a very image conscious age, and if you don't look the part, you will have a very hard time proving that you are worthwhile.

[carstar]

Blah, blah, blah. There is ONE very SIMPLE reason that the GTO failed. It looks like a bar of soap. That's IT, nothing else. It is not that it is not retro, it is that it just looks BORING. Not because it doesn't look like a 65, but because it looks BORING. The new Camaro, if it happens, will do well for the same reason the Mustang is doing well, because it looks GOOD. The GTO was a hell of a car, but it's an image car, and you can't sell a BORING looking image car to that many people.

That is the whole story right there. You can do all the analysis you want, you can point your fingers at the car mags, etc, etc. The simple truth is that the car looked like a Cavalier and not many people will pay $30K for something that looks like a Cavalier. The proof is in the pudding, not many people did buy it. We live in a very image conscious age, and if you don't look the part, you will have a very hard time proving that you are worthwhile.

I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!

the got should've arrrived when the holden Monaro was produced

[Camino LS6]

Love mine.

Fairly certain it will be back-soon.

Don't give a crap what other people think of my car - they haven't driven one.

Great article.

end of report.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

That is the whole story right there. You can do all the analysis you want, you can point your fingers at the car mags, etc, etc. The simple truth is that the car looked like a Cavalier and not many people will pay $30K for something that looks like a Cavalier. The proof is in the pudding, not many people did buy it. We live in a very image conscious age, and if you don't look the part, you will have a very hard time proving that you are worthwhile.

Hmmm... If that's the case then it's funny the car sold so well in the most IMAGE concious city in America... LOS ANGELES.

I think it's demise was based on a lot of things.... Piss poor marketing, a BIASED media that begs GM into situations only to milk money from them by BELITTLING them into failure (GTO...SSR...Aztek....etc.) The fact that the public HATES domestics, ESPECIALLY Pontiacs and the fact that it's styling wasn't all that exciting...

I wouldn't have bought one and that's because of the styling... So, I guess, in essence I agree a lot with what both z28 and samuel said.

[balthazar]

I don't think "failed" is warranted in the least. Never heard that term applied to the NSX and they sell less than 200 per year. And no- that's no intentional; if the demand was more honda would screw more together.

Followed a sweet medium blue Goat today- the car continues to grow on me. Someone rip over here in theirs and give me a ride, willya?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The GTO was ALWAYS meant to halt production anyway around this time...

I just hope the media doesn't make a big deal and call it a failure... Meh, who am I kidding, they'll try to nail Pontiac's coffin shut with this piece of news.

[bdc]

It was a failure in a sense that it never sold as well as GM had hoped. The current model would end now regardless. Hopefully it will appear again in the not so distant future.

For the 1 1/2 years that I have had mine I have had no complaints. Yes, it is a little bland but so what. I have received more compliments on this car than any other I have owned in the past. It is waaayy fun to drive and fast as hell and even cruises the highway with a very compliant ride.

I only have mine for 6 more months. While I am looking forward to a new car, I will miss the GTO when it is gone. Looks like I may have to get two new tires before I turn it in - to many spirited driving days.

[Chicagoland]

I think people jumped on the "it looks like a Cavalier" to be part of the "In crowd that worships car rags". Park one next to a Cavi and no it doesn't.

It looks like a Grand Prix, so what? The old GTO's were souped up Tempest/LeMans/Ventura cars.

Also, old timers were expecting a 'Time machine' to make them young again.

Well, hope the next one does better, and that there is a next one!

[turbo200]

Hmmm... If that's the case then it's funny the car sold so well in the most IMAGE concious city in America... LOS ANGELES.

It didn't sell incredible numbers in LA, more like incredible for a Pontiac. I see quite a few GTOs, at least one a week, more than most here could say, and I don't drive that much. It sold for the same reasons it sold elsewhere, it is world-class muscle and power, great quality interior, and stealthy look [which also worked against it]. I have to say I agree with samuel's assessment that the GTO's style killed it. For 32k and for being a Pontiac it needed to be something fresh and groundbreaking, like the Solstice.

[samuel]

Love mine.

Fairly certain it will be back-soon.

Don't give a crap what other people think of my car - they haven't driven one.

Great article.

end of report.

If I had one I am sure I would love it too. It's a great car, it just doesn't look good. I did consider buying one when they started discounting them, but, like most Americans, the looks were the deal breaker for me.

[samuel]

I think people jumped on the "it looks like a Cavalier" to be part of the "In crowd that worships car rags". Park one next to a Cavi and no it doesn't.

It looks like a Grand Prix, so what? The old GTO's were souped up Tempest/LeMans/Ventura cars.

Also, old timers were expecting a 'Time machine' to make them young again.  

Well, hope the next one does better, and that there is a next one!

The Ventura based GTO was a flop. The original GTOs were, as you say, souped up bread and butter cars. However, that was an era when bread and butter cars were extremely handsome. Tempests, Malibus, Cutlasses, all damn good looking cars in their own right.

[scharmer05]

good article, this car may have been a little boring looking, but you sure fall in love with it when you step behind the wheel. I drove one in a parade for a local dealership my cousin works at, and i had it for the whole day. My god did I have fun in that car. If I had the cash, I would buy one in a heartbeat. Especially considering that I saw a used 04 at a dealership with 15000 miles on it the other day for 18000, that is a lot of horsepower for 18000 plus it is practically new.

[bobo]

The dealerships botched the launch. $4000 markups is not the way to sell cars. The leak about a major power boost the next year did not help things, and by then, people lost interest in the car.

[SimonDavid]

Difficult to work out what market they were going for with this one. Over 30 grand (for a car not truck) is premium territory, and Pontiac is not a premium brand.

If it's a US muscle car with a touch of retro it should be 10 grand cheaper - the Camaro will be a big hit there.

If it's a 3 series competitor it should be more sophisticated and Pontiac is probably not the badge for it - a 2 dr next gen Cadillac "CTC" is what they need.

But still it was worth doing, they probably learnt alot about the right and wrong way of doing global products and the limts of the various brands.

[Camino LS6]

Difficult to work out what market they were going for with this one.  Over 30 grand (for a car not truck) is premium territory, and Pontiac is not a premium brand.

If it's a US muscle car with a touch of retro it should be 10 grand cheaper - the Camaro will be a big hit there. 

If it's a 3 series competitor it should be more sophisticated and Pontiac is probably not the badge for it - a 2 dr next gen Cadillac "CTC" is what they need. 

But still it was worth doing, they probably learnt alot about the right and wrong way of doing global products and the limts of the various brands.

I disagree entirely about Pontiac not being the right brand to go after BMW. In 2006, that should be Pontiac's main mission. If the marketing boobs had compared the car to a 3 series instead of the Mustang I think the story would have been very different. Put an M3 side by side with a GTO and tell me just one reason to pay an M3 price when you can buy a GTO and get such amazing quality and performance for thousands less. If Pontiac can't give the customer BMW level performance and quality at a huge discount the brand may as well fold.

[samy1691]

When you look at all the common threads running through the GTO....one stands out more than any.....STYLING!!!! How many great cars have come.... and gone rather quickly because of styling. It's almost the blood of the vehicle. Product sells, and product means STYLING- QUALITY -PERFORMANCE -DEPENDABILITY- on and on and on!!!!!! Leave one of these out and your left with cars like GTO...ASTEK..............................................

[toesuf94]

The entire reason that I never bought the 05 goat that I really really wanted was the lack of a NAV system, Heated seats, and a sunroof. For the pricepoint they were selling for - plus a PERSONAL LUXURY PERFORMANCE COUPE...those options should have been standard. The seats were awesome, the car was a blast to drive, the styling - while not having a HUGE wow factor - certainly made up for it with the 400 horse wallop in the a$$ when the pedal was matted.

I also do not think that this is the end of the GTO as we know it...if the drawings I have seen pan out - the next car should blow your minds...let's just hope that GM is listening to these posts and gives us the car we want, or at least a choice of the options we want on a car costing what they want for them...and also gives the guy who wants the old muscle car days back again the Judge option - less sound deadening, manual roll up windows no AC - a stripper - and make it attractively priced...I bet they could not fill the boats up fast enough.

So, sorry to see you go again, Mr. GTO...look forward to seeing how you look when you return and see if you learned from your mistakes.

[toesuf94]

By the way - when I was at NAIAS on press day - four Mercedes 'reps' came into the Pontiac Booth and looked over the Solstice...when they saw the pricetag there were collective sighs and utter shock: The German translation was roughly: " Only $20,000! How is this so?" So to go after the Euro Brands with Pontiac is highly do-able, and should be done. They were worried about selling the SLK against the Solstice...you have them looking Pontiac

[SimonDavid]

I disagree entirely about Pontiac not being the right brand to go after BMW. In 2006, that should be Pontiac's main mission. If the marketing boobs had compared the car to a 3 series instead of the Mustang I think the story would have been very different. Put an M3 side by side with a GTO and tell me just one reason to pay an M3 price when you can buy a GTO and get such amazing quality and performance for thousands less. If Pontiac can't give the customer BMW level performance and quality at a huge discount the brand may as well fold.

We're GM enthusiasts so we think like that.

But if you're going for BMW you're in import territory. People are buying image.

BMW has euro-cred and an unblemished history of building quality sports sedans that hold their value. Pontiac has, well the Aztek, Sunfire, Knight Rider, plastic cladding, 50% of GP output bought by rental fleets. How many yuppie BMW buyers are going to buy into that or set foot in a PBG dealership?

Sure with an unlimited budget and 20 years you could turn it around, but GM doesn't have that. In terms of GM brands that potentially appeal to premium import buyers they have Cadillac and Hummer, plus maybe SAAB if they polish it up. (Even then the CTS-V got panned in Europe - not on the same planet as an M5)

[The O.C.]

I disagree entirely about Pontiac not being the right brand to go after BMW. In 2006, that should be Pontiac's main mission. If the marketing boobs had compared the car to a 3 series instead of the Mustang I think the story would have been very different. Put an M3 side by side with a GTO and tell me just one reason to pay an M3 price when you can buy a GTO and get such amazing quality and performance for thousands less. If Pontiac can't give the customer BMW level performance and quality at a huge discount the brand may as well fold.

Your post entirely misses the point of why Pontiac will never be compared in the same sense with BMW.....no matter how strong the Pontiac performs......

It goes WAY beyond horsepower, acceleration times, or handling numbers.....

If someone is seriously shopping BMW, I almost guarantee you that person is way more likely to spend $35K for a 325i with 215 horsepower than they will even step foot in a Pontiac showroom with it's $33K GTO with 400hp.

They aren't buying high-horsepower.....they are buying the nameplate, image, styling, design, luxury, driving feel, etc.

[regfootball]

I disagree entirely about Pontiac not being the right brand to go after BMW. In 2006, that should be Pontiac's main mission. If the marketing boobs had compared the car to a 3 series instead of the Mustang I think the story would have been very different. Put an M3 side by side with a GTO and tell me just one reason to pay an M3 price when you can buy a GTO and get such amazing quality and performance for thousands less. If Pontiac can't give the customer BMW level performance and quality at a huge discount the brand may as well fold.

AMEN!

[regfootball]

Your post entirely misses the point of why Pontiac will never be compared in the same sense with BMW.....no matter how strong the Pontiac performs......

It goes WAY beyond horsepower, acceleration times, or handling numbers.....

If someone is seriously shopping BMW, I almost guarantee you that person is way more likely to spend $35K for a 325i with 215 horsepower than they will even step foot in a Pontiac showroom with it's $33K GTO with 400hp.

They aren't buying high-horsepower.....they are buying the nameplate, image, styling, design, luxury, driving feel, etc.

LEMMINGS

[regfootball]

I think people jumped on the "it looks like a Cavalier" to be part of the "In crowd that worships car rags". Park one next to a Cavi and no it doesn't.

It looks like a Grand Prix, so what? The old GTO's were souped up Tempest/LeMans/Ventura cars.

Also, old timers were expecting a 'Time machine' to make them young again.  

Well, hope the next one does better, and that there is a next one!

"Also, old timers were expecting a 'Time machine' to make them young again."

That's really the meat of it. Everyone wanted GM's version of the Mustang. Had a Camaro came out before this, than everyone would have been fine with this car. People couldn't let go of the fact that GTO was a musclecar / 60's name. So they assumed a new millenium car with a 60's name should have 60's styling. They should have given it a new name and spared it the bagagge of all the 'heritage' idiots opinions.

flybrian's excellent writeup (thanks man) covered most of it well.

the aero styling which was so envogue in the late 90's hit the wall a bit before the GTO was brought here and they had no chance. They simply missed the trend.

the dealers tried to gouge and had no clue how to sell this type of car

it lacked many options

and GM's own faithful wrecked the GTO's chance for success by whining about it so much not being a tradtional GM north america cheeseball / boy racer sort of car.

I actually think the moving of the gas tank hurt it a lot too. It make the trunk basically useless and begged people to ask, "why did they put the gas tank there?' to which the idiot's (read: salesman's) reply was "it was unsafe in the place where it was".

I think it would be extremely easy to sell pontiacs to folks who want a less expensive 3 or 5 series. They just have to get the product right. BMW's drive great, but look how horrid they look these days and look how full of gizmo crap they are. Pontiac could really shine as a good looking performance car for mainstream price without the useless electronic gizmo crap. The look of the car should be exciting and the performance should be 95% of what the basic and perfomance package BMW's are.

[04monteintimidator]

as soon as it came out i saw the new GTO as an M3 fighter... its just in a different class than the mustang... styling wise... honestly its not as bad as everyone says it is... its not great but its not ugly either... im just glad they didnt do what ford did with the mustang which in my opinion is way too retro... the new challenger too is just far too retro for me... its nice to have retro cues... but to make the car look almost exactly the same as a 1967 model of the car... thats just lazy... im definitely sad to see the GTO go... although hopefully it will be back soon... and hopefully the new version keeps up the high quality overall car of this one...

[GMinTheDriveway]

All I see is a lot of blah blah blah. We knew the car was only here for 3 years from the get-go. Anyone who thinks this car is BORING hasn't DRIVEN ONE!

[Cananopie]

The GTO was a respectable vehicle. Most Pontiac's I wouldn't buy but that is one that had a style I liked. I blame it on that popular sports cars today have to look like jokes in order to get anybody liking them.

Or retro if American, theres literally no other choice whether there SHOULD be or not.

[daves87rs]

A little bolder styling.

A few grand cheaper.

A few more options...a little aftermarket at the dealership...

And it could have been a hit. End of story.

You only have to look at the Charger to see how it can be done right....

[wjfox]

I think its a shame that the GTO didn't get more critical acclaim also. I've never driven a new GTO but I own one of its brethern, a 99 Catera and this chasis has a lot of capability. Every vehicle is a compromise, but the Catera, and the GTO are pretty darn good blends of handling, ride, room, economy, luxury and style. The Catera's been the most trouble prone car I've ever owned, but when it working, I love it.

I think its also a shame that when Pontiac responded to the ridicule they were getting for over wrought plastic cladding and busy styling, that a clean machine like the GTO got about as much ridicule. Personally I love the GTO styling, but I have also liked Cavalier styling since 1982. The problem with that car wasn't its styling, but that its styling didn't carry it. To me the GTO was a modern iteration of a BMW 6 coupe - understated competence.

But alas, too many years of building cars that have less than inspired styling (Malibu, 200-2005 Impala, LaCrosse 04+Grand Prix) cheap interiors (GM 1980 through ~2004) and shaky quality have tarnished the image of every one of its brands. I really think the problem is bigger than the GTO. It took a long time for GM to go from Kings of the Road in the 50s -70s to depths of they sunk to in the late 90s and early 00s. The new product is better, but it has to be even better than it currently is, very high quality and competitively priced to win trust back.

Its obvious that boring styling doesn't make a car sell badly. Just take a look at the best selling car in the country to see proof.

[samuel]

The problem with that car wasn't its styling, but that its styling didn't carry it. To me the GTO was a modern iteration of a BMW 6 coupe - understated competence.

Its obvious that boring styling doesn't make a car sell badly.  Just take a look at the best selling car in the country to see proof.

No, it's only obvious that boring styling doesn't make cars like the Camry sell badly. Why? Because they are not sold to people who care that much about looking cool. They are sold to people who view cars as simple appliances. Boring styling will absolutely sink a car like the GTO because it's target market cares much more about image than people who buy Camrys.

Great motor, great interior, bland styling.

[Houze968]

• The American car buying public: Well, not all car buyers, just the ones who read magazines and watch commercials and think they’ve gathered enough information to form a valid opinion on a car. I can’t think of any other reason to explain how a society so fond of the previous generation 3 series could not find this car attractive. The GTO is a car that needs to be driven to be believed. Having merely sat in one, I can appreciate the driver oriented-ness of the interior as well as its build quality and refinement, which is up there with the finest European cockpits. Test drives of the GTO have still been positive (minus the obligatory “styling” comments), and the 12,000 or so people that bought them each year (including several GTO owners on this board) are happy with them. The people dismissing the GTO before experiencing it fully have missed out on a lot.

I thoroughly agree. Having been to GM's Auto Show in Motion last year with the opportunity to drive, repeatedly, the 2005 GTO, I can say without a shadow of a doubt the car was fun to drive! Heck, I was taught to drive a manual in a 2004! If I had the budget to purchase one (a 2005), I would've.

This brings me to another thought: What happens now that GM has no real competitor at all to the Mustang (even though, the GTO's price point was higher than the Mustang's) ? Is the Camaro concept the savior?

Also, weren't they going to "redesign" the GTO here in the few years anyhow?

Edited February 25, 2006 by Houze968

[superstreet]

i think that the price was the problem

[Charger4U]

holy crap, nice article!

[nikivee]

Bland compared to to what? An angy appliance looking TransAm? A Viper? The GTO is not bland. Tell me what a new GTO should look like? It fits right in with the old school crowd just fine. Compare a 1970 GP to a 2006 GP.

Edited February 26, 2006 by nikivee

[Flybrian]

Its not bland at all. Its definitely a sleeper, there's no doubt about that, especially compared to the bulgy Trans Am and other more ostentatious sports cars on the market.

[CaddyXLR-V]

The GTO is not boring, its just not retro. It looks like the previous gen Grand Prix, which also isnt boring. Young people want them, I hear them talking about them all the time. But $32,000 is expensive, and it wont be cheap on insurance either. And it doesn't sell that bad for what it is. I would call it a sales flop if it was priced at $25,000 with the sales its at now, but its $32,000.

[Camino LS6]

GTO was no sales flop: the business case for the car was based on Monaro sales alone which were only a third plus or minus the number of GTO sales. GM did just fine with this car. For what you get, it was a bargain at full sticker price- the car really is that good.

Oh and check out the review scores it gets at edmunds.com - you might be surprised.

[Camino LS6]

Not boring at all: