Saturn's rebirth vexes Chevy dealers

[regfootball]

here

GM should be fighting Toyota, not itself.

"But nagging questions remain: Will sales rise enough to justify Saturn's fatter marketing budget at a time when Pontiac and Buick must trim their own ad campaigns? And is Chevrolet, GM's strongest and biggest mass-market brand, actually a better candidate to battle the imports?

Chevy dealers say they could easily fit mid-priced vehicles like the Outlook and Aura into their lineups. They also note that GM is promoting Chevrolet as its mass-market global brand."

Edited February 20, 2006 by regfootball

[regfootball]

"One of the things they can do to distinguish themselves from the rest of General Motors is to be kind of the Scion of General Motors," he said. "You concentrate on lifestyle rather than on demographics in the old sense. Previously, Saturn wasn't distinctive in any way other than the sales environment."

[ellives]

This goes back to the fact GM hasn't properly articulated why each brand exists. Their own dealers shouldn't be questioning the existance of divisions. The fact it's happening underscores the "message" problem.

Even DCX figured out that pure badge engineering doesn't work - thus the demise of Plymouth. I don't think GM has the balls to make such a bold decision. While the article below says it's "too expensive" to close down a division, it has to be done somehow unless they can come up with a way to justify the existence of all of them. You can't let things continue adrift as they are now and let the slow bleeding kill the company.

Personally I think if Saturn has high marks for quality GM SHOULD be dumping money into the division. A reputation for quality is the primary trait Toyota has going for them. It certainly isn't styling. If they can continue the solid quality reputation within the Saturn brand, there's tons of market share to grab.

here

GM should be fighting Toyota, not itself.

"But nagging questions remain: Will sales rise enough to justify Saturn's fatter marketing budget at a time when Pontiac and Buick must trim their own ad campaigns? And is Chevrolet, GM's strongest and biggest mass-market brand, actually a better candidate to battle the imports?

Chevy dealers say they could easily fit mid-priced vehicles like the Outlook and Aura into their lineups. They also note that GM is promoting Chevrolet as its mass-market global brand."

[razoredge]

THere is now way to justify saturins existance. They have been robbing funding that should have gone to BOP for over fifteen years with no results what so ever.......none ! Nothing but a money pit.

As for cryin at Chevy.........too bad, theres Buick and Pontiac that need some product and Chevy with some of their cheap cars has been instrumental in achieving the bad reputation that GM is now trying to change.

so there !

[sciguy_0504]

So where exactly would the Aura fit in Chevy's lineup?

[Northstar]

The Aura would just replace the Malibu, I would think.

I think the dealers will shut up when Saturn makes money and allows other divisions to get better products because of it.

I don't see why Buick and Pontiac dealers are bitching. In the last three years Pontiac has gotten:

G6 (sedan, coupe, and convert coming)

SV6 (granted it sucks)

GTO

Solstice

And shortly they will get the G5

Buick has gotten the LaCrosse and Lucerne, and are soon to get the Enclave, which will give them a pretty fresh lineup.

[The O.C.]

First of all, while I would like the AURA to replace the Malibu, I would take a Cobalt 100-times first before I'd even consider an ION (coupe or sedan.)

Fact-of-the-matter is.....you really could get the job done with just Chevy. The AURA could, supposedly, replace the Malibu.

You could put the Honda V6 right into the Equinox......the only real advantage I see with VUE over Equinox is that engine.

SKY would fit PERFECTLY in Chevy's lineup! They currently have an awesome Corvette with no lower-end sportster in the lineup.

Other than the dealer body, I see no product reason for Saturn to exist anymore.

BUT we know they aren't going away.....

[ehaase]

I have often felt that starting Saturn was one of GM's biggest mistakes. Even in the mid 1980's when I was in my early 20's , I thought this was a mistake. The 1991 Saturn should have been the 1991 Cavalier, which badly needed a redesign by that time. So many billions of dollars wasted.

Edited February 20, 2006 by ehaase

[Sixty8panther]

Threads like this make me sick to my stomach. Amd the more I read the more I want to grab a proverbial pillow and suffocate Saturn.

Ever heard of the expression "Quit while you're behind"?

[wildcat]

Personally I think if Saturn has high marks for quality GM SHOULD be dumping money into the division. A reputation for quality is the primary trait Toyota has going for them.

Well, that settles it. Buick should get more investment. Check its quality ratings, above every other GM brand (and way above certain ones).

[pow]

Saturn's vastly superior dealerships alone have greater potential for changing perceptions and battling the imports, IMO.

[enzl]

Saturn's vastly superior dealerships alone have greater potential for changing perceptions and battling the imports, IMO.

Agreed.

I'm assuming that somebody at GM did a ton of Market research regarding the 'perception' of the Saturn Brand....otherwise, it makes no sense.

...I have a feeling it resulted in more people who had 'positive associations' or a large % of 'I would consider a Saturn' relative to the older GM divisions....

remember, GM's association with Saturn has been downplayed until recently.

My best guess is that Chevy, Pontiac, Buick and Olds just have too many people saying "I would never consider a _______".

[Croc]

Saturn is going to be way upscale from Chevy. Saturn will really be competing with VW in the US market, in the "premium mainstream" segment.

[PurdueGuy]

To all those who dispise Saturn... suck it up. You complain that Saturn hasn't been making money. They've barely been given any product. Let's see how much money Chevy can make with one product for 9 years. Saturn had profitable years - I doubt profitable enough to pay for the factory & all that, but how could they, especially selling a low-margin economy car.

The Saturn culture is an invaluable thing for GM to build on. Get over it.

[Croc]

To all those who dispise Saturn... suck it up.  You complain that Saturn hasn't been making money.  They've barely been given any product.  Let's see how much money Chevy can make with one product for 9 years.  Saturn had profitable years - I doubt profitable enough to pay for the factory & all that, but how could they, especially selling a low-margin economy car.

The Saturn culture is an invaluable thing for GM to build on.  Get over it.

WORD. BIG BIG WORD.

[haypops]

  Saturn had profitable years - I doubt profitable enough to pay for the factory & all that, but how could they, especially selling a low-margin economy car.

The Saturn culture is an invaluable thing for GM to build on.  Get over it.

Since GM is taking the Spring Hill factory back, doesn't that mean that Saturn really didn't loose all that money that the chevy cry babies are winning about about. Are those same people crediting Saturn with the money to develop the theta archictecture of the equinox or the Atlas engine family?

[haypops]

, I would take a Cobalt 100-times first before I'd even consider an ION (coupe or sedan.)

You are of course welcome to your opinion but I put my money on the line. Three week ends ago my youngest and I went shoping for a new car. I thought we would get a Cobolt because I have a $3000 GM card rebate for it. We passed on the Cobolt because my daughter thought it felt like a rental car and the buying experience was awful. We went to the Saturn dealer and got an IOn. It looked better, it handeled better, was quieter nad more comfortable. I guess the upside is that I still have the $3000 rebate for one of her three other sisters.

[regfootball]

Saturn's vastly superior dealerships alone have greater potential for changing perceptions and battling the imports, IMO.

BINGO!

and GM is so tired of propping up so many chevy dealers, whose sales per dealership no doubt are way behind toyota.

when this revitalized Saturn takes off, the amount of cars they will be pumping out per dealer will be incredible. GM will love to prove to all the whiney and pissed off Chevy Buick and Pontiac dealers that its time to lean up and provide better customer service or risk being cut.

And all you traditionalists whine about Saturn and say the cars should go to chevy but at the same time won't allow chevy to redefine itself to become a contemporary choice in today's society. You still would rather have them selling Camaros and Chevelles and pushrods and musclecars when what much of Saturns customer service base wants are cars to battle Toyotas, Hondas, and VW's. Chevy WILL NEVER be able to challenge those 'intellectual makes' because the die hards and the dealers continue to fall back on past notions of what Chevy is and should be. Add to the fact that Saturnizing a Chevy lineup would ruffle the conservative midwesterners.

Saturn can grow GM much quicker and generate customer acceptance of GM much quicker right now operating with its leaner structure and less internal restrictions than trying to modernize Chevy, etc.

Saturns strength IS the customer so that's a great foundation to build off of. It has a lean cost structure compared to the other div's in terms of how much profit they can actually generate per dealer. And, the most important, they have the best chance of satisfying customers and bringing new ones in more quickly. Instead of propping up too many dealers, the unions, and all that other jazz.

GM made the decision that they Chevy and Saturn needed to be fundamentally different. They are moving that way. It had to be done. Saturn customers would never buy chevy's. Saturn customers will buy Opels. Once GM saw they couldn't resolve the two into one, they picked the wise direction. Chevy is now the worldwide GM equivalent of Kia, in a way.

Edited February 20, 2006 by regfootball

[Chicagoland]

It funny that someone said Chevys are 'cheap' and BOP are 'better", when in fact for the past 25 yers, they have made the same cars in the same plants.

It's mostly old thinking that a Buick is 'better', even if they share the assembly line with those 'cheap' Chevys.

"Old think" is bringing GM down. Ignoring growing states/markets, thinking younger buyers will 'grow up and only buy GM', and that imports are a 'fad'. Also, thinking the Gov't will bail them out and restrict import makes. Not gonna happen.

Another 'old think' is "Oh just kill Saturn'. This from the same who slit thier wrists when Olds died. As if it won't cost a dime to pay off all the dealers and the huge embarrasment to GM?

Edited February 20, 2006 by Chicagoland

[sciguy_0504]

BINGO!

and GM is so tired of propping up so many chevy dealers, whose sales per dealership no doubt are way behind toyota.

when this revitalized Saturn takes off, the amount of cars they will be pumping out per dealer will be incredible.  GM will love to prove to all the whiney and pissed off Chevy Buick and Pontiac dealers that its time to lean up and provide better customer service or risk being cut. 

And all you traditionalists whine about Saturn and say the cars should go to chevy but at the same time won't allow chevy to redefine itself to become a contemporary choice in today's society.  You still would rather have them selling Camaros and Chevelles and pushrods and musclecars when what much of Saturns customer service base wants are cars to battle Toyotas, Hondas, and VW's.  Chevy WILL NEVER be able to challenge those 'intellectual makes' because the die hards and the dealers continue to fall back on past notions of what Chevy is and should be.  Add to the fact that Saturnizing a Chevy lineup would ruffle the conservative midwesterners.

Saturn can grow GM much quicker and generate customer acceptance of GM much quicker right now operating with its leaner structure and less internal restrictions than trying to modernize Chevy, etc.

Saturns strength IS the customer so that's a great foundation to build off of.  It has a lean cost structure compared to the other div's in terms of how much profit they can actually generate per dealer.  And, the most important, they have the best chance of satisfying customers and bringing new ones in more quickly.  Instead of propping up too many dealers, the unions, and all that other jazz.

GM made the decision that they Chevy and Saturn needed to be fundamentally different.  They are moving that way.  It had to be done.  Saturn customers would never buy chevy's.  Saturn customers will buy Opels.  Once GM saw they couldn't resolve the two into one, they picked the wise direction.  Chevy is now the worldwide GM equivalent of Kia, in a way.

Without a doubt, the best post I have ever read from Reg and the best post on this whole matter. It completely changed my mind about Saturn and its massive potential.

[Mr Plow 2500HD]

Cut the whole thing down to Chevy Saturn Caddy, b p gmc as rebadges in theur own dealerships or cut them completely. Other have said similar. With the "B" word floating about who knows. Protect the core product cut the weak

[The O.C.]

Saturn is going to be way upscale from Chevy.  Saturn will really be competing with VW in the US market, in the "premium mainstream" segment.

If that's the case, and they come through with the product, then I like that scenario.

AURA.....competing with Jetta/Passat, Volvo S40, Acura TSX, etc., etc.....it could be a great alternative to those types of cars....

[regfootball]

Without a doubt, the best post I have ever read from Reg and the best post on this whole matter.  It completely changed my mind about Saturn and its massive potential.

thanks!

...........

thanks?

[razoredge]

to much nonsence here. Chevrolet sales speak for themselves, no one can argue with that, the Chevrolet sales arguement alone would be a good case to eliminate all other divisions.

Remember Im Mr Buick/Oldsmobile, so Im not putting a case up for Chevy but I know the truth about who sells cars.

this so called new saturin now has models of cars that belong at Buick.....as Buicks. This aura type car should be Buicks small classy luxury sedan. This sky kappa should be Buicks chance at a Kappa for enthousiasts. All luxury. All reworked Opels should be Buicks. The suvs should just be deleted. This "new" saturin is going to directly compete against Buick and Pontiac and Chevy with the small car. All this work should be going on in the REAL divisions of General Motors.

Everyone talks about perception, the perception of saturin is terrible, its like the American Yugo.

Its a stupid name

The company has never made any money

Ignorant people that say they would never buy a Buick, Pontiac or Chevy, say that because they dont know anything but statis quo, if Buick had these two models of cars sitting on their lot the ignorant perception would change. It certainly is no worse perception than the one that saturin already has. The buzz around the aura and sky would be even louder if similar cars were comming to Buick. You put the saturin product and R&D money into Buick and Pontiac and you can make this division thing work, keep up this one model here and one model there and you are killing the divisional potential......just what does everybody think been going on for the past 15 years ? .........to much worrying about saturn then Fiat and Saab. Thing is, saturin has been far more expensive. I have never met a person in my entire life that aspires to own a saturin.........think about it !

"woo wee, I's just cants waits to get me a saturin"................

The End

[wildcat]

Well put, razoredge. Worth reading again.

P.S. to GM: Stop making your divisions fight against each other! Give them all distinction and definition, just Saturn keep out of Buick's territory.

Edited February 21, 2006 by wildcat

[CaddyXLR-V]

Honestly, if they were Buicks I wouldn't buy them. And it would clash with Pontiacs line-up that are sold in the same dealership.

[Guest flowmotion]

10 years ago, Saturn had a very strong reputation among import buyers. The marketing was strong, the cars were decent and not clone-like. However, with typical mismanagement finese, GM starved the product side, and soon people figured out it was the same low quality GM $h! under the hood. (They could have put Olds product in Saturn; They could have brought Opels over years ago. They did nothing.)

So, now Saturn is basically starting at ground zero all over again.

However, the opportunity is that Saturn still can gain customers that will never buy anything from the traditional GM brands. The Chevy/Buick/Pontiac nameplates are basically the plauge to many younger and coastal buyers. Ignorant or not, it won't change until they're dead. Saturn is damaged, but not blacklisted.

If GM has a future, Saturn is going to be a big part of it. Pontiac/Buick is the past.

Edited February 21, 2006 by flowmotion

[pow]

Honestly, if they were Buicks I wouldn't buy them.

Same here, unless Buick made an effort to change its target-marketing-demographic-thing, which would be foolish.

[ellives]

Why? I'd like to know why?

Honestly, if they were Buicks I wouldn't buy them. And it would clash with Pontiacs line-up that are sold in the same dealership.

[sciguy_0504]

Saturn is not in Buick's territory and it never will be. The cars Saturn will be selling in less than two years time will (and do) appeal to young people, young families, etc. who have some cash and want stylish and dependable transportation that just a bit upmarket. Think VW. The design is directed to those demographics. Buick is very different, so much so that I cannot even believe some of you can bring yourself to think they are even closely related.

Out of all the brands, IMO, Saturn will have the most direct focus. Chevy panders to everyone, Buick's image is very slowly changing, Pontiac is in tatters and GMC is getting a professional grade CUV. Saturn has a chance to win over VW, Acura and Honda-phobes. The upcoming product looks good so we will see where this is headed, though I believe crow will be eaten shortly.

[Mr Plow 2500HD]

My wife when seeing the enclave said nice truck...for an ick. Buick is stale in the minds of consumers. Saturn could fill Pontiac and Buicks role no problem. Its a troubled ship folks

[-Camaro-]

The Aura would just replace the Malibu, I would think.

I think the dealers will shut up when Saturn makes money and allows other divisions to get better products because of it.

I don't see why Buick and Pontiac dealers are bitching. In the last three years Pontiac has gotten:

G6 (sedan, coupe, and convert coming)

SV6 (granted it sucks)

GTO

Solstice

And shortly they will get the G5

Buick has gotten the LaCrosse and Lucerne, and are soon to get the Enclave, which will give them a pretty fresh lineup.

Yeah, Pontiac got three mediocore products and fourth on the way. Buick has gotten two boring cars and one good one coming in the future, IF they execute it well in the production version.

[-Camaro-]

If that's the case, and they come through with the product, then I like that scenario.

AURA.....competing with Jetta/Passat, Volvo S40, Acura TSX, etc., etc.....it could be a great alternative to those types of cars....

That senario sucks! Buick should be upscale, and saturn should be cheap affordable econo cars, not expensive.

If GM has a future, Saturn is going to be a big part of it. Pontiac/Buick is the past.

And so was Cadillac 5 years ago, or are you forgetting about that? Saturn has a WORSE image than Pontiac/Buick in the minds of teenagers/young adults. Atleast that's what I've noticed. I always hear, "I don't care about cars, heck I drive a saturn...".

Edited February 21, 2006 by -Camaro-

[balthazar]

Even DCX figured out that pure badge engineering doesn't work - thus the demise of Plymouth. I don't think GM has the balls to make such a bold decision.

The flaw of this example is that no GM divison has even approached the badge-engineered degree that Plymouth was at the end. Neon, Breeze, Voyager, you had to get right up on top of them to know if they were Dodges or Plymouths. Everything Plymouth had with the exception of the Prowler was a true literal badge job.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Why? I'd like to know why?

The whole Buick image is the complete opposite of how I like my cars. I want to hear my engine, I like to hear my supercharger whining. I like direct tight steering, not vague, mushy steering. I hate Buicks oval grill. When I think of Buick, I picture a 75 year old going 10mph under the speed limit. The last Buick I would consider was killed in 87. GM can't make Buicks appeal to me, yet still appeal to their core buyers. If Buick's were made to fit my tastes, many Buick fans on this site would not be fans anymore.

[-Camaro-]

The whole Buick image is the complete opposite of how I like my cars. I want to hear my engine, I like to hear my supercharger whining. I like direct tight steering, not vague, mushy steering. I hate Buicks oval grill. When I think of Buick, I picture a 75 year old going 10mph under the speed limit. The last Buick I would consider was killed in 87. GM can't make Buicks appeal to me, yet still appeal to their core buyers. If Buick's were made to fit my tastes, many Buick fans on this site would not be fans anymore.

That's not true!! Who said they can't make an exciting car that isn't comfortable? They could easily make a car that was big/exciting/comfortable that appealed to everyone if they tried. It's not that hard. If it's stylish and powerful it'll appeal to your age group and if it's comfortable and roomy it'll appeal to older people.

[CaddyXLR-V]

That's not true!! Who said they can't make an exciting car that isn't comfortable? They could easily make a car that was big/exciting/comfortable that appealed to everyone if they tried. It's not that hard. If it's stylish and powerful it'll appeal to your age group and if it's comfortable and roomy it'll appeal to older people.

Well there you go. I dont want a big car. I dont want a roomy car. I dont want bench seats, or column shifters either. I dont care how big the backseat is, or even if there is a backseat. Thats exactly my point.

I'll trade space for performance. I'll give up a quiet cabin, for a more performance oriented suspension and tires, and to strip away the heavy sound deadening material.

Edited February 21, 2006 by CaddyXLR-V

[PurdueGuy]

To those who think that Saturn has such a bad image, you need to talk to more people who bought them new, not the people who bought the old beaters, spun the tires, threw a differential pin, and cursed Saturn. To say Saturn has a bad image is to ignore all the customer satisfaction awards and repeat buyers Saturn has.

The upcoming Saturns should be Buicks? I hear simple jealousy. Buick just got the LaCrosse what, 2 years ago? Now they have the Lucerne. Some SUV's... Buick has a full, and decently up-to-date linup, even if it isn't terribly inspiring. Saturn has been longing for a complete linup for, well, it's entire existance. THAT'S why it hasn't made any sizable amounts of money.

Infighting? Yup, here it is. Personally, I think the other divisions need to suck it up. Saturn has treated its customers well and built a base. Considering how little it has been given since it was started up, I'd say that's doing pretty well.

This isn't to say I don't like the other brands. My wife & I have a Buick LeSabre, which we like very well. I've had a Chevy Corsica, which I also liked very well. I had a Buick Regal, which was rather uncomfortable, but lasted well over 200K before the tranny started slipping & the motor quit. I wouldn't mind having a Caddy (though I'm probably too much of a tightwad to actually buy one), and kinda liked some of the Olds models. I'm quite open to all the divisions, but the fact is Saturn has its place.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I too think Saturn is in everybody's (Chevy, Pontiac, Buick) way, but I also think they need to keep going and find their way, whatever direction that is. I'm looking forward to Sky, VUE II, Outlook, Aura, and Evoke should the latter still be on, but given their new mission, they could easily be folded into Chevy (Evoke, VUE II, Outlook) and Buick (Aura, Sky), and as most people might tell from my posts, I would rather see Pontiac and Buick get thrown the lifesaver, because Saturn just doesn't have their history or proposals.

[regfootball]

to much nonsence here. Chevrolet sales speak for themselves, no one can argue with that, the Chevrolet sales arguement alone would be a good case to eliminate all other divisions.

Remember Im Mr Buick/Oldsmobile, so Im not putting a case up for Chevy but I know the truth about who sells cars.

this so called new saturin now has models of cars that belong at Buick.....as Buicks. This aura type car should be Buicks small classy luxury sedan. This sky kappa should be Buicks chance at a Kappa for enthousiasts. All luxury. All reworked Opels should be Buicks. The suvs should just be deleted. This "new" saturin is going to directly compete against Buick and Pontiac and Chevy with the small car. All this work should be going on in the REAL divisions of General Motors.

Everyone talks about perception, the perception of saturin is terrible, its like the American Yugo.

Its a stupid name

The company has never made any money

Ignorant people that say they would never buy a Buick, Pontiac or Chevy, say that because they dont know anything but statis quo, if Buick had these two models of cars sitting on their lot the ignorant perception would change. It certainly is no worse perception than the one that saturin already has. The buzz around the aura and sky would be even louder if similar cars were comming to Buick. You put the saturin product and R&D money into Buick and Pontiac and you can make this division thing work, keep up this one model here and one model there and you are killing the divisional potential......just what does everybody think been going on for the past 15 years ? .........to much worrying about saturn then Fiat and Saab. Thing is, saturin has been far more expensive. I have never met a person in my entire life that aspires to own a saturin.........think about it !

"woo wee, I's just cants waits to get me a saturin"................

The End

you're right, the buick has been status quo, the new lucerne has the same base engine as the 92 lesabre practically. same tranny too i suppose. if that ain't status quo i don't know what is.

that would really bring those saturn and vw and honda and toyota fans in those 'buick' showrooms.

[ellives]

OK but you're not the volume buying public, which are the kinds of customers GM needs. I personally find it humorous that SO many people (and I know a lot just from people I work with) that are knocking down Toyota's doors to hand over their US dollars under a supposed argument of buying quality when they could have bought a Buick. Look who is a better quality product:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/23/Autos/amer..._cars/index.htm

The whole Buick image is the complete opposite of how I like my cars. I want to hear my engine, I like to hear my supercharger whining. I like direct tight steering, not vague, mushy steering. I hate Buicks oval grill. When I think of Buick, I picture a 75 year old going 10mph under the speed limit. The last Buick I would consider was killed in 87. GM can't make Buicks appeal to me, yet still appeal to their core buyers. If Buick's were made to fit my tastes, many Buick fans on this site would not be fans anymore.

[The O.C.]

That senario sucks! Buick should be upscale, and saturn should be cheap affordable econo cars, not expensive.

Buicks will NEVER be compared to cars like Passat/Volvo S40, S60/Acura TSX, TL....

It would take decades of superior product, marketing, and advertising to even BEGIN to change the perception of Buick in the marketplace in order to have it appeal to people shopping VW, Volvo, Acura.

That is what Saturn should charge after......Chevy doesn't have the brand equity to appeal to those people either....

[The O.C.]

OK but you're not the volume buying public, which are the kinds of customers GM needs. I personally find it humorous that SO many people (and I know a lot just from people I work with) that are knocking down Toyota's doors to hand over their US dollars under a supposed argument of buying quality when they could have bought a Buick. Look who is a better quality product:

......maybe people buy Toyotas for OTHER reasons than just product quality

......maybe they buy them for engineering, fit-and-finish, interior quality/stying, brand reputation, powertrain smoothness, a (read non-floaty or boaty) solid ride-and-handling compromise, and yes....exterior styling (be it conservative or whatever...)

Toyota wouldn't be as successful as they are today IF the only thing they could hang their hat on was simply "product quality."

If THAT'S the case, GM's market share wouldn't be in the freefall that it is.....(because GM's quality/reliability is just as good as anyone else's....)

[CaddyXLR-V]

OK but you're not the volume buying public, which are the kinds of customers GM needs. I personally find it humorous that SO many people (and I know a lot just from people I work with) that are knocking down Toyota's doors to hand over their US dollars under a supposed argument of buying quality when they could have bought a Buick. Look who is a better quality product:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/23/Autos/amer..._cars/index.htm

And obviously not everyone wants a bad handling cruiser either, or Buick sales would be much greater, and nobody would buy BMWs.

[ToniCipriani]

SKY would fit PERFECTLY in Chevy's lineup!  They currently have an awesome Corvette with no lower-end sportster in the lineup.

BUT we know they aren't going away.....

This void will be filled when the Camaro returns.

It funny that someone said Chevys are 'cheap' and BOP are 'better", when in fact for the past 25 yers, they have made the same cars in the same plants.

It's mostly old thinking that a Buick is 'better', even if they share the assembly line with those 'cheap' Chevys.

"Old think" is bringing GM down. Ignoring growing states/markets, thinking younger buyers will 'grow up and only buy GM', and that imports are a 'fad'. Also, thinking the Gov't will bail them out and restrict import makes. Not gonna happen.

Another 'old think' is "Oh just kill Saturn'. This from the same who slit thier wrists when Olds died. As if it won't cost a dime to pay off all the dealers and the huge embarrasment to GM?

Well, not sure have you read about this, but the fact is that back then Lordstown churns both Cavaliers and Sunfires, Sunfires get better materials. I know this is true because I did a straight head to head comparison of my Cavalier to the rental Sunfire my sister got. The Sunfire was better in the sound deadening and interior materials department (although still nothing to bring home about).

[GMTruckGuy74]

I have never met a person in my entire life that aspires to own a saturin.........think about it !

"woo wee, I's just cants waits to get me a saturin"................

The End

Well razoredge, my name is Roger and it's nice to meet you. I am somebody that is aspiring to own a SATURN (sorry, I feel only uneducated people refer to it as "saturin") - as soon as my SATURN dealer receives the image, I will be placing an order for a SATURN SKY. The GM car that really has me interested right now is the upcoming SATURN AURA (I pretty much dislike my Chevy Malibu and really want the AURA) and while the wife likes the Buick Enclave, I think the SATURN OUTLOOK will also be a looker too. So yeah, now you can say you met somebody who is aspiring to own SATURNS.

And to all the rest, give it a break - SATURN isn't going anywhere any time soon. GM is pouring mass amounts of $$$ into product, marketing, etc. Look who got the cut in their marketing - Buick and Pontiac. GM vehicles have been in my family a long time; I've personally owned Chevy, Pontiac, Buick and GMC. I have nothing against any of them. How can you say your a GM enthusiast when you bash SATURN <--- a GM DIVISION?

Edited February 21, 2006 by GMTruckGuy74

[-Camaro-]

To those who think that Saturn has such a bad image, you need to talk to more people who bought them new, not the people who bought the old beaters, spun the tires, threw a differential pin, and cursed Saturn.  To say Saturn has a bad image is to ignore all the customer satisfaction awards and repeat buyers Saturn has.

The upcoming Saturns should be Buicks?  I hear simple jealousy.  Buick just got the LaCrosse what, 2 years ago?  Now they have the Lucerne.  Some SUV's... Buick has a full, and decently up-to-date linup, even if it isn't terribly inspiring.  Saturn has been longing for a complete linup for, well, it's entire existance.  THAT'S why it hasn't made any sizable amounts of money.

Infighting?  Yup, here it is.  Personally, I think the other divisions need to suck it up.  Saturn has treated its customers well and built a base.  Considering how little it has been given since it was started up, I'd say that's doing pretty well.

This isn't to say I don't like the other brands.  My wife & I have a Buick LeSabre, which we like very well.  I've had a Chevy Corsica, which I also liked very well.  I had a Buick Regal, which was rather uncomfortable, but lasted well over 200K before the tranny started slipping & the motor quit.  I wouldn't mind having a Caddy (though I'm probably too much of a tightwad to actually buy one), and kinda liked some of the Olds models.  I'm quite open to all the divisions, but the fact is Saturn has its place.

Yeah the people who buy them like them, what about everyone who wouldn't be caught dead in one? Which are teens/young adults. The Aura isn't going to change that or the sky. Their image is just as bad as Buick's if not worse! I'd say it's just as bad a Mercury's image, which is probably the worst and most people forgot about them. If Buick just built the NICE cars that they had they wouldn't have a bad image, but they didn't, they built the weak cars with no "soul".

[-Camaro-]

Buicks will NEVER be compared to cars like Passat/Volvo S40, S60/Acura TSX, TL....

It would take decades of superior product, marketing, and advertising to even BEGIN to change the perception of Buick in the marketplace in order to have it appeal to people shopping VW, Volvo, Acura.

That is what Saturn should charge after......Chevy doesn't have the brand equity to appeal to those people either....

It would take decades of superior product, marketing, and advertising to even BEGIN to change the perception of Saturn in the marketplace in order to have it appeal to people shoppin VW, Volvo, and Acura.

In all seriousness, it didn't take decades for Cadillac to turn around in people's minds which shows that GOOD cars actually DO sale. You could turn around anyone's perception with style + not being mediocore.

Edited February 21, 2006 by -Camaro-

[Croc]

It would take decades of superior product, marketing, and advertising to even BEGIN to change the perception of Saturn in the marketplace in order to have it appeal to people shoppin VW, Volvo, and Acura.

Are you high? No it won't! Out of all the divisions, Saturn has the most "non-image" of them all, except maybe SAAB. Saturn is known for great dealers, though. So...if the product is there...what would take long to essentially create an image? With Buick, you have to fight the geriatric image. That's a hard image to shake...especially when the current product does nothing to combat it.

[bowtie_dude]

The reason no one aspires to own a Saturn is because there has never been a Saturn worth aspiring for. Now there is.