Lutz comments on the Camaro and Pontiac version

[hyperv6]

This was taken from a Canadian auto web site. Much of this matched what the Fbodfather has stated before.

HOT CAMARO CONCEPT WILL BECOME A REALITY

"It is now clear that the car that made the biggest waves at the Detroit auto show was the Camaro concept. It is now an open secret that it will be built.

"Ever since the first day I got to General Motors I've been getting mail from Camaro owners, Camaro clubs, Camaro fanatics," Lutz said during the show. "It's like a cult following out there.

"I've been telling them, just wait until the Detroit auto show. I think you'll be pleased. But most of the e-mails lately have been, 'Hey, you've been there four years already. Where's our Camaro?' "

If the car goes into production, he said, "it would be priced right down with the Mustang."

How much? "It will be an astonishing value."

And there would be no -- repeat, no -- Pontiac version of the sporty two-door, Lutz said.

That kind of badge engineering "is what got us in trouble in the first place," he said of GM's woes during an interview at the show.

GM, Lutz said, suffers from "too many years of doing cars and trucks that were OK. We don't do that anymore. We do beyond OK."

For instance, he said, look back at how GM bean-counters and product engineers mismanaged the original Camaro into well-deserved oblivion.

"We got too far away from the original role of the car. It became too streamlined. The passenger compartment became too compromised. It became too expensive. It became too heavy. It became a car that just lost its way -- the same as the Ford Mustang did for awhile.

"There was a time when all of the original pony cars got bigger and bigger and heavier and heavier and more and more expensive and suddenly nobody could afford them anymore."

Bases on Lutz's commnets and other reports I expect the new GTO or GTO like car will not be playing pony car games. I expect a more 3 series type car as Pontiac has always wanted. Either way I am sorry the Bird is gone but there is just no need for it as GM does not need any more over laps in product if they can avoid it.

The G5 may be the last badge engineered Pontiac overlap.

[Chazman]

Bases on Lutz's commnets and other reports I expect the new GTO or GTO like car will not be playing pony car games. I expect a more 3 series type car as Pontiac has always wanted.  Either way I am sorry the Bird is gone but there is just no need for it as GM does not need any more over laps in product if they can avoid it.

Which one of BL's comments make you think that GTO will become a 3 series type car?

[jrockb4]

Pontiac will always have badged engineered cars, it is just what degree they are differentiated that is the question. GM can not afford to build unique cars for Pontiac only.

[mystik]

So does that mean the GTO is definitely getting canned? If so...does that mean that GM wants the Camaro, and only the Camaro, to hold down the fort for GM in this segment?

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I don't think the GTO is going away, just because the Camaro's here. It's going to stick around, but it will play in the market from which it came: a big car with lots of luxury and power. I think of it as a poor man's M6.

[Chazman]

So does that mean the GTO is definitely getting canned? If so...does that mean that GM wants the Camaro, and only the Camaro, to hold down the fort for GM in this segment?

I'd say a this very moment, it doesn't look very good for the GTO. But we'll see, hopefully things might change.

[Cortazzo]

I've heard so many conflicting things on the GTO it's disgusting. Every other month there is an 'it lives' or 'its dead' article somewhere. Pontiac needs an image vehicle above the solstice, whether it's a GTO or not is a different matter. I'm sure we'll see some V8 excitement one way or another though. And as far as badge-engineering, the term really only applies when only the badges are changed. So you'll probably see some zeta pontiac something or other, it just won't share body lines or interiors with a camaro.

[thegriffon]

Last time I checked the GTO was neither a Firebird nor a ponycar. Nothing in that article has any bearing on the GTO.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

From what I've been told, the GTO has a good chance of sticking around but it won't be a rebadged Camaro.

It's an old trick of the trade that might just be the perfect compromise

[knightfan26917]

"It became a car that just lost its way...."

Hmmm.... The Camaro wasn't the only one that "lost its way"; then again, if Lutz thinks the Camaro lost its way, what about the Malibu, Nova, Monte Carlo & Impala?

Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker

MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/

Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html

"You've made a fool of everyone" ... Jet ... 'Look What You've Done'

[pontiaccrest]

Sounds to me that the new GTO could be a 4 dr.

[Chazman]

Sounds to me that the new GTO could be a 4 dr.

Could be....

[mystik]

Charger competitor maybe?

[Chazman]

Charger competitor maybe?

Maybe one possibility.

Mostly speculation but, imagine a G8 (boy I hate that name) sedan...with a top performance version called GTO, (kind of like an SRT-8 Charger).

[hyperv6]

From what I've been told, the GTO has a good chance of sticking around but it won't be a rebadged Camaro.

It's an old trick of the trade that might just be the perfect compromise

You win the prize here for understanding the tone of the post!!!!! I think your statment sums. up what is going on the best.

The post neither said the GTO was coming back or going away just the Bird clone is not in the mix.

MY point was there will be a GTO or GTO lke car 2 door 4 door 3 door what ever it will be a V8 and RWD. That is and will be the main line Pontiac car what ever it is called.

If anyone thinks Pontiac can live on G6 alone, good luck.

[Mr Plow 2500HD]

The pontiac rear driver could just be a rebadged Holden like current GTO. Gotta keep the aussies happy besides they have extra capacity and are tooled up...its all about cost. I like when Bob talks price points Camaros should be relitivly cheap, now if they could fix the cost of insuring these cars we would see more sales.

[funkypunnk]

They need to put the GTO name to pasture until they can give it to a vehicle that truly deserves it. It needs unique styling, great performance, and an awesome interior. For all of those that will say the original was just a souped up rebadged family car I say:

That was then, This is Now, and the GTO has reached Iconic status and therefore demands iconic styling!

Come out with a two door GP and name it the GP or LeMans. Dump the stupid-a$$ G-whatever naming campaign and bring back the GrandAm nameplate.

I sure wish Pontiac would pop their proverbial head out of their a$$ and stop trying to be an American BMW as that will never happen. The cars could be better than any BMW, but they will never get that level of respect or cache due to their origins. They should just try to be an affordable performance American Car Company and keep prices down below 25,000 and quarter mile times below 14 seconds.

Imagine the advertising slogan:

Pontiac: 0-60 in 6 seconds or less, Period!

[sciguy_0504]

That kind of badge engineering "is what got us in trouble in the first place..."

...and is something we still cannot stop ourselves from doing, we are so damn addicted to it.

[Mr Plow 2500HD]

Theres nothing wrong with badge engineering, its just everybody rembers what gm did with the g-bodies in the late 70's and eighties. Everybody does it some just better

[sciguy_0504]

Theres nothing wrong with badge engineering, its just everybody rembers what gm did with the g-bodies in the late 70's and eighties. Everybody does it some just better

There is nothing wrong with platform sharing (ie. Camry/Highlander, LaCrosse/Impala/Grand Prix) but blatant rebadges (ie. 'Nox/Torrent) are rediculous. That was what my post was alluding to.

[regfootball]

They need to put the GTO name to pasture until they can give it to a vehicle that truly deserves it. It needs unique styling, great performance, and an awesome interior. For all of those that will say the original was just a souped up rebadged family car I say:

That was then, This is Now, and the GTO has reached Iconic status and therefore demands iconic styling!

Come out with a two door GP and name it the GP or LeMans. Dump the stupid-a$$ G-whatever naming campaign and bring back the GrandAm nameplate.

I sure wish Pontiac would pop their proverbial head out of their a$$ and stop trying to be an American BMW as that will never happen. The cars could be better than any BMW, but they will never get that level of respect or cache due to their origins. They should just try to be an affordable performance American Car Company and keep prices down below 25,000 and quarter mile times below 14 seconds.

Imagine the advertising slogan:

Pontiac: 0-60 in 6 seconds or less, Period!

the current GTO has one of the best GM interiors and is one of the only desirable GM interiors on the market. It has a 400hp engine and RWD for your 'great performance'. It has great handling skills and independent rear suspension. It has unique styling that looks classy in the company of many cars costing thousands more. It breaks your 6 second barrier and 14 second barrier.

Basically you are saying you'd prefer a gold chain / trailer park cruiser version of a GTO. It looks like GM is gonna grant everyones wish and make the next Camaro the incarnate version of GM's TP cruiser. Let's leave Pontiac out of the redneck car wars and let it be a little more sophisticated. The last thing GM needs to do again is design all its cars to appeal to the gearhead and mullet set. GM will get no cred from anywhere these days unless they occasionally try to present an offering that is sophisticated and mainstream and refined.

Edited February 19, 2006 by regfootball

[ToniCipriani]

Well I sort of see it this way. The Corvette has recently, as I see it, been promoted to the supercar class. The new Camaro is really coming in to take the place where the Corvette "departed".

Lutz is damn right on the point that rebadges is what screwed Pontiac up.

[-Camaro-]

The G5 may be the last badge engineered Pontiac overlap.

Since when did they announce the G5 would be badge engineered? Who said it wouldn't be different, unlike the pursuit?

[-Camaro-]

Well I sort of see it this way. The Corvette has recently, as I see it, been promoted to the supercar class. The new Camaro is really coming in to take the place where the Corvette "departed".

Lutz is damn right on the point that rebadges is what screwed Pontiac up.

So basically he's saying they can't make a Firebird without looking the same? They have no skill or means to make a firebird that isn't different looking?

[Sixty8panther]

From what I've been told, the GTO has a good chance of sticking around but it won't be a rebadged Camaro.

It's an old trick of the trade that might just be the perfect compromise

As in Charger being born of the old E-class Chassis but wiht HEMI power?

DO you mean the next GTO will be a two door car based on the Sigma Chassis? (CTS-V)

[Sixty8panther]

Reg:

Let's not start another thread about how Camaros/F-Bs/TAs are driven my Mullet/Trailer PArk Trash/Redneck crowd. We've gone down that road and I think we've put that argument to bed.

Edited February 20, 2006 by Sixty8panther

[ToniCipriani]

So basically he's saying they can't make a Firebird without looking the same? They have no skill or means to make a firebird that isn't different looking?

Not that they can't do it, but really that's not what Pontiac needs right now. I think they're better off spend more time on improving their true volumers first (read: the sedans and the G5).

Edited February 20, 2006 by ToniCipriani

[-Camaro-]

Not that they can't do it, but really that's not Pontiac needs right now. I think they're better off spend more time on improving their true volumers first (read: the sedans and the G5).

Ah, good point. So is the G5 going to be a rebadge, or is it actually going to be different? I haven't been keeping up with this car..

[regfootball]

Reg:

Let's not start another thread about how Camaros/F-Bs/TAs are driven my Mullet/Trailer PArk Trash/Redneck crowd. We've gone down that road and I think we've put that argument to bed.

let's leave the camaros for that bunch then and let GM try to branch out and do something a little more worldly with its Pontiac versions then ,please. we don't need 'camaro, part 2' for a GTO or firebird. there's gonna be enough retro/butch/boy racer musclecars available between the cam, mustang and challenger. Pontiac doesn't need to clog that market with another version of the same f'in thing.

Edited February 20, 2006 by regfootball

[ToniCipriani]

Ah, good point. So is the G5 going to be a rebadge, or is it actually going to be different? I haven't been keeping up with this car..

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...?showtopic=5914

[thedriver]

i had always thought the the camaro/firebird should follow the mazda mx-6/ford probe school and have one be an upright coupe, one a 3 door hatch, so as to offer something for more people... same engines, maybe different suspension settings, that sort of thing.

[04monteintimidator]

I've heard some nasty rumors about the GTO redesign due in the 08 model year... rumors like... 4 doors... not a blatant sedan like the charger... but a 4 door coupe like the mazda rx-8... this is a very scary rumor that i do not like... however i've been thinking about it recently and i realized something... if they did decide to go through with that, which i still hope they dont, wouldn't this make room for a firebird? if the GTO was a bigger roomier car (as it has traditionally been) that would open up the possibility of a pontiac 2 door pony car... firebird or otherwise... but to be honest... if they're just going to rebadge and slightly rearrange the camaro to make a firebird... id rather they just not bring it out and make the GTO a real 2 door coupe

[Carguy]

This CAMARO comeing is GREAT NEWS!! I dont see why a future GTO couldent be done on a streached weelbase/rear overhang and restyled version of the Camaro platform takeing it up ABOVE the PUNYCAR class and into the MUSCLECAR one. Do it as a TRUE HARDTOP COUPE with the top engine from the CAMARO SS as a base engine in the GTO. They could be VERY DIFFERENT CARS Cami-pony/GTO-Muscle for VERY DIFFERENT MARKETS! Pontiac NEEDS THE LUXURIUS MUSCLECAR GTO!! And CHEVY NEEDS the AFFORDABLE PONYCAR CAMARO!!

[Mr Plow 2500HD]

The world can do without a firebird....unless burt wants to do another movie I love the goat its the best sleeper around but dollars and sense a 4door would do better. Pontiac has too many coupes, maybe move the gto to buick as a grand sport. Camaro needs to burn rubber in 08 any later and it may be to late..

[CaddyXLR-V]

I've heard some nasty rumors about the GTO redesign due in the 08 model year... rumors like... 4 doors... not a blatant sedan like the charger... but a 4 door coupe like the mazda rx-8... this is a very scary rumor that i do not like... however i've been thinking about it recently and i realized something... if they did decide to go through with that, which i still hope they dont, wouldn't this make room for a firebird? if the GTO was a bigger roomier car (as it has traditionally been) that would open up the possibility of a pontiac 2 door pony car... firebird or otherwise... but to be honest... if they're just going to rebadge and slightly rearrange the camaro to make a firebird... id rather they just not bring it out and make the GTO a real 2 door coupe

I agree. Either make it right, or leave it dead. Or if GM is set on it being a 4 door, just rename it. GM doesn't make Corvettes with backseats, and they shouldn't make GTO's with 4 doors.

[sciguy_0504]

I think a GTO with RX8/Ion coupe-style rear doors would be a success and would also help it stand out in a crowded field. Of course, it would turn off diehard GTO enthusiasts but the current one already has so what is the big deal of improving the GTO yet again? As long as it has no effect on the overall coupe-style (side profile view) and the car runs hot, who cares?

[CaddyXLR-V]

I think a GTO with RX8/Ion coupe-style rear doors would be a success and would also help it stand out in a crowded field.  Of course, it would turn off diehard GTO enthusiasts but the current one already has so what is the big deal of improving the GTO yet again?  As long as it has no effect on the overall coupe-style (side profile view) and the car runs hot, who cares?

Why cant they just rename it if they do that? Porsche wouldn't make a 911 SUV, Toyota wont make a 4 door FWD Supra, for good reasons. Pontiac shouldn't take their most legendary name, and apply it to a 4 door.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Basically you are saying you'd prefer a gold chain / trailer park cruiser version of a GTO.  It looks like GM is gonna grant everyones wish and make the next Camaro the incarnate version of GM's TP cruiser.  Let's leave Pontiac out of the redneck car wars and let it be a little more sophisticated.  The last thing GM needs to do again is design all its cars to appeal to the gearhead and mullet set. GM will get no cred from anywhere these days unless they occasionally try to present an offering that is sophisticated and mainstream and refined.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You make me sick. You're just another guy - who probably no doubt sports a mullet in real life - who nods his head in agreement with all of the stereotypes people feed you. You need to learn to open your mind and become a human instead of a puppet.

The Camaro is not a "mullet-moble", a "pimp-machine" or anything like that. Its a car that provides good amounts of performance who can't afford that $34,000 price tag of the GTO. You need to wake up and smell the coffee before someone spills the coffee on you and you get burned.

I understand you have your opinions, but I feel you must be correctly informed on this instead of spewing ignorant bull&#036;h&#33; like a virus.