Getting ahead gets harder

[regfootball]

I am amazed at how younger folks can get started these days, everything is so flippin expensive, hell and I'm only 36

msn

"Many parents wonder why their kids can’t just grow up, buy a home, start a family and live without debt. They don’t realize how much the economic context has changed."

Edited February 11, 2006 by regfootball

[regfootball]

'Sixty percent of young adults between 18 and 34 are struggling for financial independence"

"When productivity was increasing, so were wages. We don't have that today. Wages certainly aren't keeping up with the cost of things like healthcare and housing."

"Then there is the high cost of college. A bachelor's degree has become the equivalent of a high school diploma -- essential for basic status in the middle class."

[regfootball]

"The fact is, these are national problems and they require a national solution. But this is just not on the radar of politicians. It's not an issue with which they concern themselves. But it's the issue the American family is concerned with."

[the_yellow_dart]

I think it's all about how you manage your money. I'm 22, and I am buying a new car. I will (hopefully) have enough of a tax return (~$5k) for a down payment on a house.

[Drew Dowdell]

meh, people lack imagination. I was stuck in the cooperate rat race for years getting measly 3% raises. Now that I'm on my own, I have much more freedom, satisfaction, and most importantly much more money.

[CARBIZ]

It isn't from lack of money or opportunities, it is from too many choices of things to spend that money on.

50 years ago -

grandparents bought their first home - no driveway, no cupboards, no appliances, one 4 piece bathroom, no sod....house had one B&W TV, one radio, no stereo, no microwave, no central air, no central vac, no triple pane argon gas windows, they had one single door refrigerator, no icemaker, no flatscreen TV built in, there was no Playstation or MP3 players...grandfather had one Studebaker - no a/c, no power windows, probably didn't even have power steering!

vacations consisted of camping in a tent (no motorhome, no power generator, no satellite TV!)

nobody went to Europe for Spring break, nobody flew to New York for the weekend, kids didn't need $120 pair of Nikes......

I could go on, but I think you get the point. I look around at the toys I have - the electronics, the gadgets, the labor saving devices, and the trips I have taken, and the 200 channels of cable I must have and this computer I am typing on and I realize that if I got rid of all this unnecessary stuff I would have an awful lot of money in the bank.

[Snate]

Whoever wrote this article is dead on. I'm getting sick of articles dismissing my generation as "lazy" because we aren't out of the house right after college graduation. The simple fact is that while the economy is certainly weak...it hits my generation especially hard.

Wages have stagnated, the job market is bleak, costs of basic living essentials have risen substantially....the list goes on and on.

[91z4me]

Whoever wrote this article is dead on.  I'm getting sick of articles dismissing my generation as "lazy" because we aren't out of the house right after college graduation.  The simple fact is that while the economy is certainly weak...it hits my generation especially hard. 

Wages have stagnated, the job market is bleak, costs of basic living essentials have risen substantially....the list goes on and on.

Well I am 25, a part of your generation, and I have NO problem with my life. I paid for my own school, worked all 5 years. My wife worked through school. We upgraded apartments 4 times since starting college, upgraded cars 4 times (still used though). We have put enough into savings that if we needed we could live for OVER a year with no income. My wife is finishing her Masters and I am starting Chiropractic school in May. We made due when money was tight. We made our own money and we didn't need to be given anything. That is life and if you want to be an adult you take it as it comes. Go out and get a job, any job that pays you, and look for a better one on the side.

All a matter of priorities.

[NOS2006]

I agree that it's a matter of priorities.

My parents say I have no life. If I'm not at school, I'm at work. If I'm not at school or work, I'm doing homework. And if its not one of those three, I'm on C&G or photoshopping. Why? Because those are school nights and I don't stay out late Sunday-Thursday.

I get 2 days off work EVERY week, which are spent actually relaxing or catching up on homework. And I pretty much have to work this much or else I won't have money for insurance, gas, school, etc.

It's harder than it used to be, that's for sure, but not impossible.

[Snate]

Well I am 25, a part of your generation, and I have NO problem with my life.  I paid for my own school, worked all 5 years.  My wife worked through school.  We upgraded apartments 4 times since starting college, upgraded cars 4 times (still used though).  We have put enough into savings that if we needed we could live for OVER a year with no income.  My wife is finishing her Masters and I am starting Chiropractic school in May.  We made due when money was tight.  We made our own money and we didn't need to be given anything.  That is life and if you want to be an adult you take it as it comes.  Go out and get a job, any job that pays you, and look for a better one on the side.

All a matter of priorities.

Not everyone wants to work their entire college life. Most people want to enjoy it...thats why they take out student loans to pay off later when the presumably get a better job. It isn't just about the education...its about the experience...nobody should have to look back at their college life and think of just working all the time.

[91z4me]

Not everyone wants to work their entire college life.  Most people want to enjoy it...thats why they take out student loans to pay off later when the presumably get a better job.  It isn't just about the education...its about the experience...nobody should have to look back at their college life and think of just working all the time.

How about this: I worked 40+ hours a week and I saved tens of thousand dollars in the long haul!

I am moving to St. Louis to go to school and we looked at houses and even got pre-approved but decided against it. I graduated over a year ago from college and have saved enough money to move to a new state, go to school, and afford what I want while my wife is the only one working, and bringing in less than $40K. Save a penny now and it pays off.

TRUST ME I know from experience.

[turbo200]

My housing costs are ridiculous. I have no health insurance. I live very frugally. I have financial independence and have had it for almost three years now. I don't complain, things will get better down the road.

[Snate]

I'm not going to argue the merits of paying college now versus later...that isn't the point of the article. The point is those that choose to pay it later under the assumption that they can get a decent job after they graduate are not being able to do that...hence why more and more people are living at home later.

The point of the article is that it is becoming increasing difficult to get ahead for people in my generation due to the mentioned factors...low wages, increasing costs...etc.

Optimistically the best starting wage you are gonna get is about 30K a year...and that is optimistic. After taxes we are looking 1800-1900 per month. Now lets look at some of the expenses of living on your own.

Rent: 700 a month

Utilities: 200 a month (more like 250 if you use a cell phone as the main line)

Food: 100 a month

Car Insurance: 100 a month

Renters Insurance: 50 a month

Health/Dental: 200 a month

So at the very best you have what...500 a month to spend on discretionary income. This assumes you have no student loans, you car is in decent shape and fully paid off..and even then these costs are low-ball estimates.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm not going to argue the merits of paying college now versus later...that isn't the point of the article.  The point is those that choose to pay it later under the assumption that they can get a decent job after they graduate are not being able to do that...hence why more and more people are living at home later. 

The point of the article is that it is becoming increasing difficult to get ahead for people in my generation due to the mentioned factors...low wages, increasing costs...etc. 

Optimistically the best starting wage you are gonna get is about 30K a year...and that is optimistic.  After taxes we are looking 1800-1900 per month.  Now lets look at some of the expenses of living on your own.

Rent:  700 a month

Utilities:  200 a month (more like 250 if you use a cell phone as the main line)

Food:  100 a month

Car Insurance:  100 a month

Renters Insurance:  50 a month

Health/Dental:  200 a month

So at the very best you have what...500 a month to spend on discretionary income.  This assumes you have no student loans, you car is in decent shape and fully paid off..and even then these costs are low-ball estimates.

To be fair, it all depends on where you live. Here in Pittsburgh, $700 a month rent gets you a fairly rockin place. Heck, my mortgage is $765 a month and I have 3 bedrooms, hardwood floors, fireplaces, porches, gargages and 1/3 acre of land.... yet I'm 15 minutes from downtown.

[91z4me]

The point of the article is that it is becoming increasing difficult to get ahead for people in my generation due to the mentioned factors...low wages, increasing costs...etc. 

Then the article is a farce. People who are in debt and expecting to come out of college making millions are being unrealistic. Be real here the people having all these troubles are expecting more than they should and are getting themselves into credit card debt. You should have NO problem paying back your student loans if you go out and get a job.

Optimistically the best starting wage you are gonna get is about 30K a year...and that is optimistic.  After taxes we are looking 1800-1900 per month.  Now lets look at some of the expenses of living on your own.

Rent:  700 a month

Utilities:  200 a month (more like 250 if you use a cell phone as the main line)

Food:  100 a month

Car Insurance:  100 a month

Renters Insurance:  50 a month

Health/Dental:  200 a month

Here are my bills:

Rent 600

Utilities (including 2 cell phones and cable) 220

Food 200+ (myself and my wife)

Car insurance 100 a month

Renter's insurance 50

Health/dental 30-work pays for part of my health and I don't have dental I didn't think it was 100% cost effective (I could get it for 20 a month)

We pay about $180 per month on student loans, sometimes as much as $400 to be sure to bring it down to reasonable levels.

Also my wife drives about 80 miles a day so there you have about 300-400 a month in gas.

Her paycheck goes about 90% into savings now and I make $12 an hour with some overtime. I bring home about $2000 a month.

So going by your estimation we should be broke but we are not. If money was tight I could cut about $200 a month out of our bills. Get rid of cable and cell phones, they aren't 100% needed and you reduce your bills by quite a bit.

Face it people if YOU want to get ahead YOU have to do the work and make the hard decisions.

[lakefire]

I disagree with the article completely. It's not about times changing, it's about people not knowing how to manage their money. And that's no bodies fault but the school system, their parents, and themselves.

At 24 I'm 2 months away from owning a house (well, starting to pay on a house). http://lakefiredesigns.com/house

I've had my Dakota for 3 years, and granted I don't officially own it, but it is worth more than I owe on it. Many of my other friends are not having issues with money that I am aware of. They are living nicely (not like kings) but aren't struggling. The problem is people don't do a balance sheet for their expenses.

HEre is mine

Income: 

Base/Month $1,810

Commission $640

Phone $50

Expenses $600 $3,100

 

Debt: 

Rent $637

Auto $312

Food $500

Gasoline $240

Car Insurance $116

Electric $95

Dry Cleaning $60

Phone $58

Dog $50

Internet $45

Website $4 $2,117

 

Remaining: $983

[Snate]

To be fair, it all depends on where you live. Here in Pittsburgh, $700 a month rent gets you a fairly rockin place.  Heck, my mortgage is $765 a month and I have 3 bedrooms, hardwood floors, fireplaces, porches, gargages and 1/3 acre of land.... yet I'm 15 minutes from downtown.

Yea thats true. Where I live in southwest Chicago has ridiculously high living costs....some of the highest in the country. Decent jobs are hard to come by here. Everyone I know is either still living at home or has moved away to find a better job opportunity.

Thankfully I'm getting out of here...I can't stand the midwest anymore. My brother lives down in southwest Florida and he said I should come down there so I am.

[mute]

i live in montegomery county MD (the highest population in MD) and in order to own a car i have to make 20k a year..........on minimum wage

[ocnblu]

Montgomery County is one of the higher cost of living counties in the USA, also one of the richest, income-wise.

I won't even try to account for all the money I've spent on buying vehicles. I try to never be "upside down" on a car loan... right now, I am upside down by about $300 on the truck... first time ever (based on a recent trade-in bid).

I am able to save money, but not as much as I'd like. I have a mortgage, utilities, taxes, food, vehicle, and insurance bills monthly. I made $46k last year, and I feel it's not enough, even with a modest mortgage of $760/month.

Sometimes the hardest thing in the world is to save money, but you have to do it if you want a better life.

Edited February 11, 2006 by ocnblu

[NOS2006]

Well, in MI, we have one of the lowest min. wages. I make $5.65/hr (at one job) and pay $160/month on insurance and about $60-80/month on gas.

[intrigued]

Im a paralegal part time and I made 29k last year from may when I started through december. I payed part of my tuition I have a scholarship and my dad payes half of the remainder so thats 8 grand twards tuition im at 21 grand, payed my auto insurance 1800 on my 01 alero, payed for gas 1200, brakes struts and springs in my 2000, lets see that brings me to, 13 grand spent. I put 8 grand into a CD and the remainder I spent in good times, good food and some new clothes. a lot of wasted money once the school year starts... most on booze and good times but whatever at least I made sure to put some money away some place I couldnt touch it. Next year I get a raise and will have worked this job a full year but I gotta pay my rent 550 a month with utilities next year im going to try and budget myself more save a littel more money and hopefuly buy a g6 gtp this summer which I could have at red tag if I hadnt wasted so much money o nbooxe lol.

[capriceman]

Yes it is very hard and espensive. to live decent you need to at least make 50,000 a year.

So where is the all important MIDDLE CLASS. The Perfect class. Well its gone due to imports of cheap crap like consumer products (shoes,toys, clothes) and cars (really important) and Government. There are no factory jobs left, not even in the Auto industry. Name One American Textile industry that is left? In michigan back in the 60's you could graduate high school and get a job at one of the Big 3 or a parts supplier. even other factories that made pencils, Toys, Clothes. Today there are basicly only fast food or clothe stores left as jobs for high schoolers unless you have connections. Plus the middle class has to pay the most Taxes than any other class. but being that the middle class gets smaller everyday, The government gets less money.

I have to stop before I have a heart attack from think of why we dont have the perfect middle class anymore!

Edited February 12, 2006 by capriceman

[knightfan26917]

Face it people if YOU want to get ahead YOU have to do the work and make the hard decisions.

Absolutely correct. No arguments here.

However:

I manage my money quite well, I believe. I don't live extravagantly and I keep a tight budget. Those who have seen my "budget paper" (where I keep "funds" within my checking account for "Medical", "Car Insurance", "Credit Union Savings", "Licence Plate Renewals", "Storage", "Phone/Email", "Church", "Necessities") are shocked at how detailed I am ... and that I take the time to actually "disperse" each paycheck into each of these "funds".

Even so, I'm still living at home. Partly because I can't afford to move out (was on track to do so a year ago, until I was layed off and had to take a $3K per year paycut going into my new job) ... and partly because, due to my health issues, it's better to be living with someone.

And, as far as I'm concerned, I'm not lazy by any means.

While I consider myself financially responsible, most people think that I'm not ... since I'm still at home...and own 5 cars. Yet, those same people are ones that have a luxury car, for which they pay more on insurance in a year than I do on my 5 MCs combined, AND are married, complete with 2 incomes to my one.

Course, those same people don't stop to consider the effect of the medical costs I incur due to my heart issues and my recent abdominal issues. Those certainly take a huge chunk out of my monthly budget ... and I have no control over that. If I did, I'd be much happier .

*shrugs*

It's all about perception.

Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker

MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/

chdQB = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/quilt.html

"Why can't that be me?" ... 3 Doors Down ... 'If I Could Be Like That'

[Guest Josh]

I did not read the entire thread just the first post but I can tell you this I am lucky to be a at a job right out of high school with the potential of $40,000 in Michigan (which is NOT much at all anywhere else) and then move up to a supervisor role that I have now.

It's a blessing. I think about moving out and doing my own thing, not because it's bad at home but because I'd love to have a place to call my own but there's no way that is possible with a house & car payment over $2,000 a month.

[bobo]

Houses have gotten ridiculously expensive for first-time buyers now. I was able to buy a house within one year of getting out of college 14 years ago, but since then, housing costs have tripled while incomes have gone up by only about 25%. The new car should come after the house, and credit cards should be paid off every month. Keeping a credit card balance is an insidious way to go into debt.

[2005 EquinoxLS]

I agree it isnt always easy. I live at home yet and I am 30. I go to work every day and hardly ever take off. I am always on time with everything as far as paying and being to work on time. I dont go out much or do most any extracurricular activites. My only things I do for fun are the computer and when I can drive my vehicles. Rent here is between $400-$500 a month for a normal place.

[regfootball]

they've snow jobbed the public. when i was growing up, it was, 'you have to get a college degree to get anywhere'.

so, i did that. i make out ok, but not really enough to say it was worth the investment. still i had a good time. i worked full time my last 3 years of college while i went because i couldn't get loans.

well, i am lucky. i have a nice house and 2 fairly new cars to drive. i have minimal credit card debt in comparison to many others i know....even after all that i don't put enough away and I really do have too much credit.

The thing that sucks is my wife and i both have degrees. I can't make enough alone to support our family even if we downscaled our house. So we both work, and with that comes daycare and stuff. Healthcare, fuel and energy costs, automobiles (which we spend a lot less on than others I know) and taxes, etc......all that stuff keeps going up more compared to what you make.

So even beyond your early thirties it continues to suck. A lot of friends are getting masters degrees thinking it will be the ticket to making more dough. it might be but at some point the investment does not pay off anymore and there's too many masters.

i definitely feel for the ones in their early twenties. in order to be financially strong, you either have to strike it lucky and land a lucrative job, out of sheer luck.....or live in self denial for many years....(no car payments, live in less than what you want etc. College and healthcare goes up 15% a year and wages keep getting cut. Housing goes up 10-15%.

part of the reason we jumped in with four feet into our outrageous mortgage where we live now and bought as much as we could was because we knew if we even waited a year, then we would never get into this place which we ultimately wanted to be long term. We had already put if off 2-3 years longer than we should have and in that timeframe housing went up 30-50%, no lie. Had we just made an interim move with the idea fo moving again in 5 years ro so, we would have taken it in the arse then due to mre seller and banker fees and a price that is another 40-50% higher than what we paid for ours. = never gonna happen. Our house ends up being our main investment vehicle. In 22 months after we moved in, i had the mortgage redone to change it to a fixed from a short term balloon and they appraised our home at 13% higher than we bought it for. Insane. Its not worth near that. But that would chalk up in our favor on our balance sheet now, even if it provides no help with cash flow now.

we've really reached a point where in order to make it huge you gotta have money to begin with. that, and connections. if your family/dad was some big earning CEO and you had inheritances, your family had stocks, property passed down from before, or a company your parents owned and they hand you a job that pays more than you're really worth....sure, then you can make it bigger.

But the US as a nation has evolved to the point where you can work your ass and get educated and it really doesn't make a lot of difference at all unless you've got things coddling you from the birthing room.

I suspect very much that 20 somethings and early thirtysomethings are indeed working their asses off without much to look forward to. Unforunate.

If i had been really drinking tonight i would blame the feminist movement, baby boomers as a generation, and politicians for hosing up our society economic and family structures from the 50's and 60's......

our society has adjusted to the point where there is no middle class....if you are starting life in your twenties at '0' on the balance sheet, you have far too many obstacles in front of you to get 'ahead'.

keep the peace with mom and dad you teens, cause you still could be living there ten years form now.

all these who say 'its up to you you can make it on your own'....sure......RRRIIIIGGGHTTTT. without engaing in anything unethical or where you step on others to get what you want? without spending ALL your time (likely single) obsessively pursing personal gain? it can be done but you will typically fail most business ventures b4 you find one you can extort from the public with and anyone hitting their twenties with nothing for assets on the balance sheet can't afford to take chances to make rent. No one I knew could afford to. And even those who are entrepenuerial, the faliure rate there is far too high too.

We always hear about the success stories, but never hear much about the millions of personal faliures in everyone's lives. Frankly, I choose to believe what my dad says....they are moving us towards 'civilized slavery', the upper classes are.

the jet setters that think they have it figured out by 30, may be out of the game and on their butts by 40 if you don't keep working at it.

Edited February 13, 2006 by regfootball

[razoredge]

This has been going on for a few decades now. When I was renting I was lucky to have found the houses I did but no money could be saved to accumulate down payment.

It all depends on where you land and other personal factors. I was stubborn and determined to do what interested and stimulated me. So that came with a price, one that has gotten even more expensive but thats another topic.

Anybody can buy a house today, the real question is will you ever own it? Our parents payed off their homes and saved money, retired, did vacations, maybe had a camp. Many bought new cars...CASH.

Today we have thrown this to the wind. Because global economy has capitolized for those in the position to profit from it. Driving up the price of housing, creating markets for must have items and a list to long to bother with. While this has been happening for those in right places it has been stiffeling others that are in the wrongs places. Its that simply..... complicated. I dont think I've earned 500,000 yet but I have built 500,000 dollar homes......may times over.

There is no balance. If we could sit and say.....we want X$ for this service and that is that, like our government does, like the health care industry does, like our corporate leaders do, like insurance industries do, like the utilitys do, like the oil companies do........but we can not, we must take what is offered or start over again. Then a time comes when one is done starting over again, after all "starting" seemed to take a decade, Im sure its the same for the college people.

saying "I did it, therefore anyone can", is........... whatever. Without everyone haveing the same exact interests, abilities and desires you can not assume there is a level playing field. Abilities does not mean superiority of human either, it means what one has the ability to withstand or enjoy or accomplish. I can take the weather, the dirt, the sweet and blood but I couldnt take 40 hours in an office full of "players" playin some game I didnt sign up for. At the same time those people could not take what I have endured........that is abilities and implies in no way what so ever, where in lies "superiority"

"No one said, life was fair"

no

but

"point me to the man that says it can not be, and I will show you the problem"

[2005 EquinoxLS]

This has been going on for a few decades now. When I was renting I was lucky to have found the houses I did but no money could be saved to accumulate down payment.

It all depends on where you land and other personal factors. I was stubborn and determined to do what interested and stimulated me. So that came with a price, one that has gotten even more expensive but thats another topic.

Anybody can buy a house today, the real question is will you ever own it? Our parents payed off their homes and saved money, retired, did vacations, maybe had a camp. Many bought new cars...CASH.

I know. My 84 year old Grandmother and the 87 year old  Grandfather that passed away last October couldnt figure out how people make it these days with payments for everything. Far as I know both sets of grandparents bought everything with cash and hardly ever borrowed from the bank. Nowdays sometimes to have something nice you almost have to borrow or in the case of my Equinox, lease. My grandmother has a real hard time with the concept of leasing a vehicle.

Today we have thrown this to the wind. Because global economy has capitolized for those in the position to profit from it. Driving up the price of housing, creating markets for must have items and a list to long to bother with. While this has been happening for those in right places it has been stiffeling others that are in the wrongs places. Its that simply..... complicated. I dont think I've earned 500,000 yet but I have built 500,000 dollar homes......may times over.

There is no balance. If we could sit and say.....we want X$ for this service and that is that, like our government does, like the health care industry does, like our corporate leaders do, like insurance industries do, like the utilitys do, like the oil companies do........but we can not, we must take what is offered or start over again. Then a time comes when one is done starting over again, after all "starting" seemed to take a decade, Im sure its the same for the college people.

saying "I did it, therefore anyone can", is........... whatever. Without everyone haveing the same exact interests, abilities and desires you can not assume there is a level playing field. Abilities does not mean superiority of human either, it means what one has the ability to withstand or enjoy or accomplish. I can take the weather, the dirt, the sweet and blood but I couldnt take 40 hours in an office full of "players" playin some game I didnt sign up for. At the same time those people could not take what I have endured........that is abilities and implies in no way what so ever, where in lies "superiority"

"No one said, life was fair"

no

but

"point me to the man that says it can not be, and I will show you the problem"

[thegriffon]

Housing "costs" have not tripled, what has ballooned is what people are willing to pay, and expect to get when they sell. If you believe stories like this which say "first-time home buyers cannot afford current prices" then what you should be anticipating is a big crash in housing prices in future. Don't think it will happen? Then obviously they can afford it.

[thegriffon]

What can governments do to lower housing prices? Exactly the opposite of what has been done. Instead of making it easier to borrow more money over a longer term, make it harder. Limit the amount people can borrow and how reduce the time they have to pay it off for everyone and watch housing prices plummet. Just not a popular move with people who have already spent a lot on a home and may wind up "upside-down" if prices fall, but will have no real effect on anyone "trading-up" or moving. Home-owners (a large propportion of voters) tend to get very unhappy if governments (local state or federal) were to do anything to lower housing prices. People are very protective of their "property values".

The other solution is to go into investment properties, where the tenant pays of your mortgage for you, and you can leverage that into more and more property. This of course is a limited market—not everyone can be a landlord to even one other person, let alone several. If too many people get into "the game", it all falls down.

[Dsuupr]

Funny, I'm 33 and my wife is 31, we make more money than my parents and have a nicer house, and we are WAY ahead of my parents at our age.

Scary part, both of my parents are teachers.

I do get the point of the article. If you don't have good manufacturing jobs, like GM, Ford, TV manufactures, etc., for the masses then the country suffers.

[Sixty8panther]

Well $h! I'm 26 and I feel it too. Me and Marcia would never be able to buy a house now if it wasn't for her Grandmother helping us out wiht 80% of the downpayment.

Freeekin houses around here are like $350K to $400 for a starter home.

[Dsuupr]

Let me tell you guys a little about how it works.

1. The extra crap my Grandparents didn't buy, we don't buy.

2 We are on a strict budget that allows going out to eat only once a week and at that it's a cheaper resturant like Sushi ($15 to $20 for whole family). There is no "slush" money to spend on what ever I like at the moment.

3. We don't have the biggest fastest most gas hog car one can get. We just have our little Cobalt. We will be getting a LeSabre soon, but that will be inhereted, not purchased.

4. My wife works at UPS "part-time" so that we have never shelled out for day care, and we are given GM like health care (this is what kills most people now days). $26,500 a year for a part time job, plus medical, dental, vision for entire family at no cost. My recent open heart surgery ($70,000 actual cost) cost us less than $200 including all of my medications.

5. My wife does things most wives don't now days. Like make pie from scratch, make dresses for our daughters, make quilts, etc. It's much cheaper to make dinner from scratch than a box. This also provides low cost entertainment that gives us things we need and want.

6. Every vacation, every "treat" has a budget and we stick to it (or she chews me out).

7. I never go out to lunch unless I can charge it too the company. Instead I pack a lunch, like a kid at school.

8. Because we have kids, and kids like to eat furniture and such, our furniture is from IKEA (one of the few areas where we don't buy American though trade is fair with Sweden so all is not lost) which is low cost and very durable (covers).

9. We did not buy a house beyond our means. It's a newer home in a great neighborhood, and in a cult-de-sac. The mortgage person would allow us to go another $30,000 to $50,000 higher but we didn't.

10. Beth has money going to her 401k, UPS stock and we tithe for church. I havn't been with my company long enough to send any 401k yet. At this point we have over $40,000 in retirement funds. At the current rate we are going we will have more money per month retired (adjusted for inflation) than I make now, plus a paid off house. That should be just fine. One area we need to improve is kids college funds.

11. We do have cc bills, though it's WAY under the national average. We got it from me trying to start my own business. As all our bills are over paid by a minimum of $5 they should be paid off within 1 to 2 years. We don't use the cards for anything anymore. Infact they are kept in a safe. If we can't pay cash it's not bought. Only cars and houses should have monthly bills.

12. We only have basic cable, as any more rots ones brain anyways. Books provide much better entertainment and for less money (gotta include electricity in it).

13. Speaking of electricity, everyone in our house turns things off when not in the room. For that matter we often have no lights on in the living room when we are watching tv as it's not necessary.

14. We don't have internet, I hook up through one of our neighbors wireless networks.

15. We have no landline phone. Instead we talked those that we need to speak to daily (like my staff) into having the same cell phone company as us. Everyone else can wait until the weekend or I can call them from the phones at work.

16. We buy American because it lasts, and we get the most for our $$. It doesn't always happen as there certain things that are not made here, but when they are we buy it.

17. We avoid Walmart and other crap stores. Buying crap only has you replacing it in a short time. Better to save the money and buy the good stuff than get it earlier only to have it break.

18. POINT - SIMPLIFY. My Grandparents made it because they didn't demand so much CRAP and they bought what we made (American).

19. I can honestly say the more we've given to our church (time and money) the better our lives have become. Doing something for your spirit and your community will help you fill the "void" that money and crap can never fill. Instead of going to the movies which spends your money, go to your local church and help feed the homeless. At the end you'll get more out of it and so will your community.

Do a budget, find out what your wasting then reconsider if those items are necessary. Take some of your extra and give back, to your community, your church, etc. It will come back to you tenfold.

For those interested in seeing our home.

[RichW5]

Congrats to you, Dsuupr. You've listed all the rules for financial success. However, my two stepsons couldn't or wouldn't follow a single one. They believe that they should have the best of everything, even if their mother (my wife) has to work overtime to pay for it.

It's more important for them to sit in front of a computer and play games until 3am, and smoke weed, than it is to find more work.

The 28 year old has a basement refinishing business. He could easily make $100K a year if he ran his business like a business. He's currently paying his brother, who was laid off, more than he should, along with some deadbeat friends. The basement he just started is a $60K job and if he priced it right, he should make $15-20K on that basement alone. Normally, he's working two or three basements at one time, with the average price of $30K. Each basement takes about 3 months. His problem is that he spends all of his profits on "stuff" and friends instead of putting a portion of the profit back into the business.

The 34 year old, just bought a new ($300K) house in Plano, IL. His wife makes $38K a year as an assistant manager of a bank and he gets paid too much, on the side by his brother. He won't work weekends. They have an 3 year old F-250 gas hog and a year old Mustang GT, too many guns, 6 guitars and 4 ($2K) pool cues. Needless to say, mommy had to help with the down payment on the house. His wife will be going back to school this fall, because she knows she needs a degree to become bank manager. He could easily pick up $100 to $200 a weekend doing side jobs. No...... he has to have his gaming and his weed.

There are jobs, or businesses out there, but people may have to move, learn to manage their money better or go back to school. Above all LUCK or networking helps.

[knightfan26917]

2 We are on a strict budget that allows going out to eat only once a week and at that it's a cheaper resturant like Sushi ($15 to $20 for whole family).  There is no "slush" money to spend on what ever I like at the moment.

I have a very small "slush" fund, but then again, I don't go out to eat.

My recent open heart surgery ($70,000 actual cost) cost us less than $200 including all of my medications.

Holy crap. My last open heart surgery in 2003 cost nearly $200K ... and cost me about $3K out of pocket, including medications....

Instead I pack a lunch, like a kid at school.

*nods* Same here!

10. Beth has money going to her 401k, UPS stock and we tithe for church.  I havn't been with my company long enough to send any 401k yet.  At this point we have over $40,000 in retirement funds.  At the current rate we are going we will have more money per month retired (adjusted for inflation) than I make now, plus a paid off house.  That should be just fine.  One area we need to improve is kids college funds.

I don't have kids and have about $30K in retirement funds....

1. We do have cc bills, though it's WAY under the national average.  We got it from me trying to start my own business.  As all our bills are over paid by a minimum of $5 they should be paid off within 1 to 2 years.  We don't use the cards for anything anymore.  Infact they are kept in a safe.  If we can't pay cash it's not bought.  Only cars and houses should have monthly bills.

I use my Discover card because of the cash back allowances. Bottom line, I get paid $20 about every 4 months or so ... enough to buy me gas for a week . I always pay my cc bill in full and ONLY charge things that I KNOW I can pay for (such as gas, medical bills, etc.).

12. We only have basic cable, as any more rots ones brain anyways.  Books provide much better entertainment and for less money (gotta include electricity in it).

I don't have cable....

14. We don't have internet, I hook up through one of our neighbors wireless networks.

I'm only on dial up .

19. I can honestly say the more we've given to our church (time and money) the better our lives have become.  Doing something for your spirit and your community will help you fill the "void" that money and crap can never fill.  Instead of going to the movies which spends your money, go to your local church and help feed the homeless.  At the end you'll get more out of it and so will your community.

I agree whole-heartedly with this .

Do a budget, find out what your wasting then reconsider if those items are necessary.  Take some of your extra and give back, to your community, your church, etc.  It will come back to you tenfold.

Amen! Some, after looking at the budget I prepare for myself, think I'm TOO budget oriented...he he he.

Course, a difference here ... you, presumably, of course, seem to have 2 incomes ... I only have one.

But, as Rich stated, all of these are "rules for financial success", most of which I follow very, very closely .

[Croc]

It really is coming to a point where networking is an invaluable tool. The more connections you have, the more of a leg up you have in the rat race of life. I'm so glad I joined Theta Chi...so many of my brothers have connections that I know the hard part will be deciding which connection to pursue once I graduate.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

That GREAT global economy for you...

I'll graduate in 2 years with 2 degrees..... Can't WAIT to live in poverty with all the other educated masses.

[capriceman]

It sucks. Im glad making 42,000-50,000 (overtime helps ALOT) a year with a 160,000 house and 1 3/4 cars payed and yet still im in debt. I try not to do anything because where im at right now is perfect. In 2 years ill have 15,000 saved and debt free :rollseyes: either ill buy a new car or take the 5,000 right now and buy a Seadoo this summer i have a feeling the market will be flooded with cheap ones.

But Right Now im scared I have the week off and work isnt to steady. But I always have my Expert knowledege in HVAC to find a job at a scab company.

[important Lesson] have 2 careers that you can master so if one fails you can fall back on the other job. (thanks Grandpa that Helped me So much)

[Dsuupr]

Or pick a career that doesn't have any reason to be shipped off shore. It's impossible for them to have Landlords live in China.

Networking is VERY important. It can change your wage by thousands. I went up by $12,000 a year from June of last year to this year because of who I knew as much as what I knew.

[balthazar]

Those of you that are looking for a morgage- try like hell to get a bi-weekly. When we got ours the deal was: (for example) instead of paying $500 every month, you pay $250 every 2 weeks. Starts paying against the principal immediately instead of halfway thru the 2nd year as in a monthly morgage. Drops a 30-yr to 22-yrs right off the bat. Prepay the next month's principal at the same time and you can cut that in half (we did: 11 years & no morgage left).

We saved $47K on $90K borrowed- you cannot hope to realize a larger savings with any other obstacle in your life.

[knightfan26917]

It really is coming to a point where networking is an invaluable tool.  The more connections you have, the more of a leg up you have in the rat race of life.

Heh...which is _exactly_ why I offered the networking possibility to people on all of my message boards. I've found that the more you talk with people ... the more you find you have in common.

So, it amuses/amazes/confuses me when not many people seem to be actually interested in networking....

*shrugs*

After all, as I mentioned in the "I-40, Little Rock, Arkansas" thread, life is _way_ too short.....

Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker

MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/

Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html

"Nothing's quite the same now" ... Vertical Horizon ... 'Best I Ever Had'

[intrigued]

I think that it is the blue collar jobs that made up the bulk of opur middle class contribute largley to the class shrinking. The manufacturing jobs are not increasing at the same rate as inflation anymore because if they do they end up getting sent overseas to other countries that get cheaper labor. White collar isnt the same, with networking I got my paralegal job when I was still just 18 right after my freshman year of college. If I worked it full time all year I would make about 50k a year. That's because I met people at parties in highschool that I made good impreshions on and I have won a couple of regional writing awards and I know how to talk to people and make a good impreshion. So I landed myself this job. The only advantage I had from my parents besideds being good parents is they sent me to a good private highschool at large personal cost.

I also struck it good with some friends in college. I became his friend first but I latter found out that one of my roomates dad is the VP of human resources and JP Morgan Chase. I make it a point to keep up with that companyy and talk to the guys father at l;east once a month. White collar is where its at if you want to make money and can work in an office invironment. If you are good at netwrking and can sell yourself you can make big money.

As for nobody ever "owning" their home thats even more true around "affluent" area's like NYC and the suburbs surrounding it. Our house is worth three million dollars. We have been here long enough to have it payed down to the point where we "only" have 500k left on the mortgage but we will sell before its paid off in a year or two when my dad retires and buy a house abouth another 40 miles away from where we live in westport CT. The house will cost less than half as much and be just as nice if not nicer. Then we will own it and have money left over. And im not bragging about some house that my dad bought with inheretied money or a plush nepotistic job, my mom put him through lawschool and payed rent on their small 1 bedroom apartment in boston for 3 years and he made his money as an attorney from there his only real benefit being he had college payed fro by his parents.

It can still be done there are still plenty of self made men but the field of opportunity has narrowed and the last great bastion of good-high paying jobs left in america is white collar postions, largley in the service indusrty.