AZ Wrong on immigration

[RjION]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100501/ap_on_re_us/us_arizona_deputy_shot

May 1 2010

Law officers backed by helicopters hunted gunmen in Arizona's desert early Saturday after a sheriff's deputy was wounded by suspected marijuana smugglers, officials said. The violent episode came amid nationwide debate over the state's tough new immigration law.

Pinal County Deputy Louie Puroll was patrolling alone Friday afternoon in a rugged area near Interstate 8, about 50 miles south of Phoenix, when he came upon a band of suspected smugglers, authorities said.

At least one of five suspects opened fire on the 53-year-old lawman, tearing a chunk of skin from just above his left kidney. The officer was found after a frantic hourlong search, Pinal County sheriff's Lt. Tamatha Villar said.

The wound was not serious and Puroll was released Friday night from Casa Grande Regional Medical Center.

State and federal law enforcement agencies deployed helicopters and scores of officers to search a 100 square-mile zone near the Interstate and Arizona 84 for the suspects. The Arizona Republic reported officials said more than one of the choppers came under fire during the manhunt.

The Pinal Sheriff's department told The Associated Press that the hunt into the early morning hours Saturday but no arrests had been made.

The shooting was likely to add fuel to an already fiery national debate sparked last week when Gov. Jan Brewer signed a law cracking down on illegal immigration in the state.

A backlash over the law has surged with civil rights activists, concerned it will lead to racial profiling, calling for protests and a boycott of the state.

The new law's passage came amid increasing anger in Arizona about violence, drug smugglers, illegal immigration drop houses and other problems that some say are caused by poor border security. The issue gained focus a month ago when a southern Arizona rancher was shot and killed by a suspected illegal border crosser.

Arizona politicians called Friday's shooting an outrage and urged the federal government to do more to secure the border with Mexico.

"Regardless of the outcome of tonight's manhunt and investigation, Arizona is now confronted by some of the most vicious and dangerous narco-terror organizations the world has seen," Brewer said in a statement.

Rep. Kirkpatrick, a Democrat whose district includes part of Pinal County, said the violence "should show the rest of the country what we Arizonans have known for too long — the unsecured border poses a very real and very immediate danger."

Puroll, a 15-year department veteran, had been carrying out smuggling interdiction work before finding the bales of marijuana and encountering the five suspected smugglers, two armed with rifles.

"He was out on his routine daily patrol in the area when he encountered a load of marijuana out in the desert. He obviously confronted the individuals and took fire," Villar told The AP.

The Republic quoted Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu as saying about 30 bullets were fired at the deputy, who returned fire with a semiautomatic rifle and a handgun.

The area is a well-known smuggling corridor for drugs and illegal immigrants headed from Mexico to Phoenix and the U.S. interior.

"(Puroll) is a search-and-rescue deputy, so its not uncommon for them to work those areas A) looking for drugs and B) looking for people who need assistance out there," Villar said.

[A Horse With No Name]

I think everyone is missing the real point of all of this.

Beats being ignored and left to deal with the situation.

Once again si8r your ideas would be...correct...

How about instead of making immigration laws such a hot topic to divide & conquer the masses if those useless windbags in Washington got off their asses & tackled more pertinant issues:

1. Bringing back manufactiuring jobs to the USA

2. Stopping or at least slowing the out-sourcing epidemic

3. Increasing the GDP

4. National Security

5. Enforcing the laws that DO exist on illegal immigration

Can we start a Sylvester for 2012 campaign?

[A Horse With No Name]

Apparently there's this quaint notion of illegals picking lettuce and string beans and nothing else, but the fact is that they are in hundreds of industries and yes; they ARE doing jobs Americans want. Esp with real unemployment over 15%. I've seen & heard this firsthand in the construction biz- heavily IA-invested companies can undercut market price and will in this economy- putting tax-paying Americans out of work. We should right our own ship before taking on more passengers.

I'm white, I'm in the construction industry, and I'm currently working about thirty hours a week. I both agree and disagree with you...we need to put Americans to work, but Americans need to be willing to work. LOTS of white guys think construction is a great career to screw off at...I've worked crews that were all white, all black, all hispanic, and about every combination of the above. I've also worked with lots of white guys who will work their buts off for forteen hours a day to get a job done.

However, I could almost bank on the work ethic of a hispanic crew being really high. But not all Hispanics...I've gotten hispanics fired just like I've gotten white guys, blakc guys, and asians fired.

As a foreman, the only way to kiss my ass is to produce...come on my crew and you damn well better produce, or you won't be there.

I think the answer is to teach hispanics English so that they can become part of our culture, educate their children, and work on making a better economy so that people can have a better job regardless of race.

[Intrepidation]

A friend of mine who him and his family came over here from Vietnam when he was little. They came here legally (and are now citizens) and had to start with especially nothing, but worked their way to become middle class. He told me yesterday that supports this bill regarding illegal immigration.

Thought I'd share that perspective.

[RjION]

Out in the middle of the dessert during a man hunt. You have no right to ask me for ID.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/01/20100501pinal-county-deputy-shot-smugglers.html

17 detained after search for smugglers who shot Sheriff's deputy

111 commentsby Dennis Wagner - May. 1, 2010 10:21 AM

The Arizona Republic .

Seventeen people were detained overnight in the search for suspects in Friday¹s shooting of Pinal County Sheriff¹s Deputy Louis Puroll by suspected drug smugglers in an isolated area of south-central Arizona.

Pinal County Lt. Tami Villar says 14 of those detained are suspected of being illegal immigrants, while three match the description of the shooters given by Puroll.

The 14 suspected illegal immigrants are being held by Border Patrol, while the three suspects are being questioned by the Pinal Sheriff's Office.

The Sheriff's Office is also conducting an internal investigation into the shooting, standard policy whenever a shooting involving an officer takes place.

Villar added that evidence recovered from the scene is only now being processed, but would not comment on if weapons had been found.

Puroll, who had been shot with an AK-47-type weapon around 4 p.m., according to the Sheriff's Office, has declined requests to be interviewed.

The rugged desert area where the shooting took place, near the junction of Interstate 8 and Arizona 84 in south-central Arizona, is considered a high-traffic drug- and human-smuggling corridor.

A massive hunt of 100 square miles that included helicopters with night-vision equipment and more than 200 officers, including SWAT teams, from 13 agencies was still pursuing the shooters late Friday.

More than one helicopter came under fire during the evening as officers rescued Puroll, who had been shot with an AK-47-type weapon around 4 p.m., according to the Sheriff's Office.

Puroll suffered a flesh wound above his kidney that tore off a chunk of skin. He was treated at Casa Grande Regional Medical Center and released Friday night.

"Here we see the tactics have changed and become more dangerous," Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu said. "This has reached a critical mass for law enforcement."

Babeu said he has "called out for help" from federal officials to no avail. He said smugglers know "the police are after them and the fact they are firing upon us changes the game."

Gov. Jan Brewer also weighed in, saying in a Twitter message sent out Friday evening: "Our thoughts & prayers go out to the Pinal County Deputy shot during a stop. Contrary to what some leaders say, our borders are not secure."

Brewer could not be reached to discuss it further.

The shooting occurred exactly one week after the governor signed the toughest anti-illegal-immigration law in the country, triggering a firestorm of state and national controversy. The legislation has been hotly debated, and it has put Arizona in the spotlight over how border states deal with rampant illegal immigration.

The legislation has sparked protests and calls to boycott the Grand Canyon State from opponents, while supporters argue it should be emulated nationwide. Babeu, a frequent critic of federal immigration policy, is a strong supporter of the law.

Babeu was joined by Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, another supporter of the law, at a command-post news conference late Friday at an I-8 truck stop.

Arpaio said that, in 90 days, when Arizona's new law takes effect, he will be enforcing it "100 percent," and he worries that violence common with drug cartels in Mexico will come to the U.S.

"I think this is one incident that proves that it's going to happen in the future," Arpaio said. "I predict it's going to get worse because of the chaos at the U.S.-Mexico border."

Villar said Friday's incident "sends a very powerful and loud message that we have a problem."

She added that the shooters are Hispanic men who "appear to be undocumented."

Villar said Puroll, 53, was attacked about 5 miles south of I-8. She said the veteran deputy is assigned to patrol the area known for drug smuggling.

Babeu said Puroll was tracking the smugglers, who left behind large quantities of marijuana.

Babeu said up to 30 rounds were fired at the deputy, who returned fire with an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and a handgun.

Villar said the attackers were armed with long guns and at least one handgun. She said gunfire aimed at the helicopters came about an hour after the initial incident. An unknown amount of marijuana apparently handled by the shooters remained in the desert.

The Maricopa County Sheriff's Office dispatched a helicopter and members of its SWAT team to Pinal County to assist in the case, said sheriff's Lt. Brian Lee. The Arizona Department of Public Safety also sent two helicopters and a SWAT team.

About 70 Maricopa County sheriff's employees also responded to the scene. Lee said most had been involved in a crime-suppression sweep in west Phoenix earlier in the day.

The Border Patrol also sent agents to help with the investigation, said Mario Escalante, a patrol spokesman. The nearest Border Patrol station in the area is in Casa Grande.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/01/20100501pinal-county-deputy-shot-smugglers.html#ixzz0mis9qmuj

[Intrepidation]

More than one helicopter came under fire during the evening as officers rescued Puroll, who had been shot with an AK-47-type weapon around 4 p.m., according to the Sheriff's Office.

Wow, that's like something out of a war.

Time to call in some AH-64 Apaches?

[CSpec]

Would everyone not agree that the above violence is an indictment of US drug policy failure? Much like the brutal crime from mobsters and booze runners during prohibition.

[PurdueGuy]

Would everyone not agree that the above violence is an indictment of US drug policy failure? Much like the brutal crime from mobsters and booze runners during prohibition.

Can you not see that the two issues are incredibly intertwined? WE DON'T CONTROL OUR BORDER. That means:

- free passage of illegal immigrants

- free passage of drugs

- free passage of terrorists

Yes, there is room to discuss changes in drug policies which might affect the drug market & reduce the violence related to it. Yes, there is room to discuss changes in legal immigration policy to make it easier to come here legally, which might affect the number of people who come here illegally. But these things do not change the fact that we have no control over our borders, and that is a threat and unacceptable even if there were some relief in the drugs & immigration issues.

[Intrepidation]

Can you not see that the two issues are incredibly intertwined? WE DON'T CONTROL OUR BORDER. That means:

- free passage of illegal immigrants

- free passage of drugs

- free passage of terrorists

Yes, there is room to discuss changes in drug policies which might affect the drug market & reduce the violence related to it. Yes, there is room to discuss changes in legal immigration policy to make it easier to come here legally, which might affect the number of people who come here illegally. But these things do not change the fact that we have no control over our borders, and that is a threat and unacceptable even if there were some relief in the drugs & immigration issues.

Well said.

[Camino LS6]

Can you not see that the two issues are incredibly intertwined? WE DON'T CONTROL OUR BORDER. That means:

- free passage of illegal immigrants

- free passage of drugs

- free passage of terrorists

Yes, there is room to discuss changes in drug policies which might affect the drug market & reduce the violence related to it. Yes, there is room to discuss changes in legal immigration policy to make it easier to come here legally, which might affect the number of people who come here illegally. But these things do not change the fact that we have no control over our borders, and that is a threat and unacceptable even if there were some relief in the drugs & immigration issues.

Great post.

I will give a nod to C-spec as well though. Our drug policies are pure idiocy.

Edited May 2, 2010 by Camino LS6

[A Horse With No Name]

Can you not see that the two issues are incredibly intertwined? WE DON'T CONTROL OUR BORDER. That means:

- free passage of illegal immigrants

- free passage of drugs

- free passage of terrorists

Yes, there is room to discuss changes in drug policies which might affect the drug market & reduce the violence related to it. Yes, there is room to discuss changes in legal immigration policy to make it easier to come here legally, which might affect the number of people who come here illegally. But these things do not change the fact that we have no control over our borders, and that is a threat and unacceptable even if there were some relief in the drugs & immigration issues.

Amazingly well said...

[SAmadei]

Can you not see that the two issues are incredibly intertwined? WE DON'T CONTROL OUR BORDER. That means:

- free passage of illegal immigrants

- free passage of drugs

- free passage of terrorists

And the fact out government seems to hold barely a passing interest in the border problem, among other problems, shows that we have lost control of our own government.

[Drew Dowdell]

But at the same time you cannot deny there is some racial motivation behind this law.

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has signed a bill banning ethnic studies classes for public school students. Because they "promote resentment" of white people.

Gov. Jan Brewer approved the measure without public statement Tuesday, according to state legislative records. The new law forbids elementary or secondary schools to teach classes that are "designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group" and advocate "the overthrow of the United States government" or "resentment toward a race or class of people." The bill was pushed by state school Superintendent Tom Horne, who has spent two years trying to get Tucson schools to drop a Mexican-American studies program he said teaches Latino students they are an oppressed minority. There was no immediate response from the Tucson Unified School District, the law's main target.

RELATED: Yesterday the Los Angeles city council voted overwhelmingly to boycott Arizona businesses. The city has $56M in annual contracts with Arizona-based companies.

[ocnblu]

Three cheers for Governor Brewer. No US state should foment tensions against any group in their schools.

What the immigration law is doing is a latecoming attempt at stopping illegal immigration. Those who oppose this effort should be deported.

And f**k Los Angeles. Our borders must be protected and enforced. Get the illegals out now, regardless of their country of origin.

This is not a racially motivated law. It just so happens Arizona is a border state with Mexico. Illegal immigration laws should be enforced so diligently at all of our borders. I don't care where they come from... they need to get legal.

Edited May 14, 2010 by ocnblu

[CSpec]

ocn, they're illegal because we cap legal entrants at an absurdly low rate. Americans need to realize that these people would desperately like to come here legally without resorting to violent smugglers, but our system forces their hand. And "deport them!" is never going to happen, it's a canard by the xenophobes in both parties.

[ocnblu]

Absurdly low in your opinion, Control Specimen.

People who want to come here should do so in an orderly fashion... they should do their homework. They should learn English. And they should be prepared to go through a process to enter this country legally.

Forces their hand? You advocate criminal behavior with that statement. They (illegal immigrants) force the hand of people who are sworn to uphold the laws of our land. People like Governor Brewer. She HAD TO DO SOMETHING. Her state is being overrun! She swore to protect the safety of her citizens and the ORDER of her state! Chaos is not an option. I applaud her for taking control and trying to protect her part of our border with Mexico!

[CSpec]

Before quotas, all immigrants had to do was go through orderly checkpoints where they were examined for communicable disease and any criminal history. There was no arbitrary numerical restriction on their entry. That's what's driving illegal immigration: there is still a great demand for their labor, but myopic laws don't allow them to get the right pieces of paper. The (greatly overstated) violence from the smugglers is a direct result of that policy.

[ocnblu]

The message to prospective immigrants should be: DEAL WITH THE QUOTAS. We owe them nothing. Indeed, THEY owe US!

Edited May 14, 2010 by ocnblu

[Robert Hall]

To make sense of this in the context of Arizona you have to remember AZ has a large right wing predominantly white ultra conservative demographic--a group that is inherently racist---remember, this is the state that 20+ years ago was against having the Martin Luther King Jr holiday. Lots of scary, armed white people w/ political power and a lot of poor brown people, some legal, some illegal.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[ocnblu]

Go to Mexico and see what rights you have there as an American. This border problem is ONE-WAY, because Mexico has much more oppressive laws dealing with immigrants than we do.

People need to take responsibility for themselves. Look what President Obama has done with his life. He didn't come from money. Your argument is pure hogwash. This is about law enforcement, not racism or class warfare.

Mexico needs to get their act together and take care of their people.

Edited May 14, 2010 by ocnblu

[balthazar]

...instead of distributing pamphlets with tips for illegally crossing into the U.S.

-- -- -- -- --

>>"The new law forbids elementary or secondary schools to teach classes that are "designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group" and advocate "the overthrow of the United States government" or "resentment toward a race or class of people." "<<

How horrible !! We should encourage liberal teachers to preach MORE of that, not less !

DOWN WITH NATIONAL ASSIMILATION, UP WITH ETHNIC SEGREGATION !!

IMO, look no further than the outcries of "insensitivity' (racism) when 4 students wore AMERICAN Flag t-shirts on a Mexican non-holiday promoted primarily in the U.S. primarily to sell beer.

[RjION]

What the hell ............. why do we have any laws for any reason. Someone will be unhappy and God only knows we want eveyone to be happy.

[loki]

What the hell ............. why do we have any laws for any reason. Someone will be unhappy and God only knows we want eveyone to be happy.

have strong internal chains so none should be exteranally placed on you. (metaphor)

IMO, look no further than the outcries of "insensitivity' (racism) when 4 students wore AMERICAN Flag t-shirts on a Mexican non-holiday promoted primarily in the U.S. primarily to sell beer.

think mexico should go back to spain? hehe

[loki]

But at the same time you cannot deny there is some racial motivation behind this law.

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has signed a bill banning ethnic studies classes for public school students.

sounds like political correctness to me...? not that "we" teach history very well, at all, and at worst on purpose.

Edited May 14, 2010 by loki

[regfootball]

as someone who has had to deal with a large percentage of my working 'career' in a construction related field, without work because of recessions and horse&#036;h&#33; economy, I guess I would offer up the notion that building a nice large wall across the entire southern border of the United States would not only be a nice obstruction to illegal immigrant entry, but it would employ lots of folks doing so in the process. We could even build sniper stations on top, in case anyone thinks they can scale the wall.

Just a thought.

[loki]

as someone who has had to deal with a large percentage of my working 'career' in a construction related field, without work because of recessions and horse&#036;h&#33; economy, I guess I would offer up the notion that building a nice large wall across the entire southern border of the United States would not only be a nice obstruction to illegal immigrant entry, but it would employ lots of folks doing so in the process. We could even build sniper stations on top, in case anyone thinks they can scale the wall.

Just a thought.

the chinese did that to the mongols.. guess what, they still got through, but more of them got through a few at a time than any army could have. and think of the hurt that would cause to wildlife. walls only work for prisons, and then sometimes not even then.

[Drew Dowdell]

The Chinese didn't have sniper rifles.

[loki]

The Chinese didn't have sniper rifles.

the mongols had recurve bow tech.... basically the same.

but the insinuation in that our boarders should be guarded with deadly force, why not just bomb the mexican side of the boarder to make it more of a wasteland. if we can kill them with snipers, we have no care about other nation's citizens/human life...but that's been our foreign policy for the last 60 years anyway.

[RjION]

as someone who has had to deal with a large percentage of my working 'career' in a construction related field, without work because of recessions and horse&#036;h&#33; economy, I guess I would offer up the notion that building a nice large wall across the entire southern border of the United States would not only be a nice obstruction to illegal immigrant entry, but it would employ lots of folks doing so in the process. We could even build sniper stations on top, in case anyone thinks they can scale the wall.

Just a thought.

Sniper Stations ............... cool

Edited May 14, 2010 by RjION

[Robert Hall]

It could be like a new Berlin Wall...a DMZ area w/ land mines, trip wires, etc and sniper stations full of armed 'Minutemen' half wits (the Minutemen are an AZ ultra right wing loony group that patrols the border)...I'm sure that would be very popular here in AZ.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[RjION]

It could be like a new Berlin Wall...a DMZ area w/ land mines, trip wires, etc and sniper stations full of armed Republicans...I'm sure that would be very popular here in AZ.

MMMMMMMMMMMMM18A1 Claymores oh the the red mist.

[SoCalCTS]

First of I think this law is unconstitutional. There is nothing in the constitution that requires anyone to provide proof of citizenship. There is no official language of the USA so speaking Spanish is hardly justifiable for singling anyone out.

However, I hope that Arizona law enforcement totally abuses this law. They can stop and hold ANYONE for not producing citizenship documents. Do you look suspicious? Are you a suspected tweaker? Did you piss the cop off while he wrote you a ticket??? YES? Well then you better produce your proof of citizenship because you are going downtown for up to 48 hours while we figure things out. Seriously, I think I hear a bit of a Canadian accent there... I might have to haul you in. Oh sorry sir a Driver's license is not proof of citizenship.

I cant wait til they start holding white people under this law. Let's see how opinions change. Hypocrites!

[CSpec]

Quite right SoCal. If people object to this law if police ask everyone for their papers, then it shouldn't be law.

[Drew Dowdell]

Heck, even a Certificate of Live Birth from the State of Hawaii isn't proof of citizenship apparently.....

[Robert Hall]

Heck, even a Certificate of Live Birth from the State of Hawaii isn't proof of citizenship apparently.....

Maybe eventually we will have to be chipped w/ an RFID chip that has our citizenship info, tax status, etc on it.

[RjION]

No chips set off the claymores ............ I like it.

[balthazar]

For all those that haven't read the bill- rest assured; that model of government efficiency, Eric Holder, hasn't either (or so he claimed in an interview), but he's looking into suing AZ anyway (stated BEFORE the admittance).

Guess he misplaced his 3rd Reich mind-control-blocking cap, too.

[RjION]

No chips set off the claymores ............ I like it.

Will anyone be left for the sharpshooters in the towers?

Edited May 14, 2010 by RjION

[loki]

Maybe eventually we will have to be chipped w/ an RFID chip that has our citizenship info, tax status, etc on it.

is it 1984 already?

[Drew Dowdell]

Fairgounds: President Obama awarded the medal of honor to Army Staff Sgt. Salvatore Giunta at a White House ceremony on Tuesday. In Arizona he'll still have to show them his passport.

[ocnblu]

And it should be no problem for him. Besides, do you really think a Medal of Honor winner will be breaking the law anywhere soon, let alone Arizona? Give it a rest.

Edited November 17, 2010 by ocnblu

[balthazar]

I had to show my passport at the doctor's earlier this year.

[Robert Hall]

[quote name='balthazar' I had to show my passport at the doctor's earlier this year.

I showed mine as proof of citizenship when I started my job earlier this year.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

Don't you hate being racially profiled, Cubitar ?? Makes me itch.

[regfootball]

The Chinese didn't have sniper rifles.

BUT THEY HAD

KUNG ZHU!

[Robert Hall]

Don't you hate being racially profiled, Cubitar ?? Makes me itch.

Standard corporate procedure..and I'm a minority hire in my department (a token white male US citizen).

Edited November 18, 2010 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

^ Standard RACIAL corporate procedure, you mean.

[Drew Dowdell]

Don't you hate being racially profiled, Cubitar ?? Makes me itch.

It's not a racial thing. EVERYONE has to show eligibility of employment in the U.S.

The difference here is that refusing to show the passport only costs you the job, it doesn't get you arrested and locked in jail while the cops "figure out" your immigration status for 3 days.

[Drew Dowdell]

And it should be no problem for him. Besides, do you really think a Medal of Honor winner will be breaking the law anywhere soon, let alone Arizona? Give it a rest.

You carry your passport with you all the time? I don't. Oh look, (you have a tail light out on the Colorado)/(where going 57 in a 55)/(weren't wearing your seatbelt)/(pulled up to a DUI checkpoint)/(looked suspicious walking around the neighborhood)/(vehicle inspection is one day overdue)/(your exhaust system doesn't sound legal)/(your right front tire is low).... we'll have to take you down to the station while we figure out your immigration status.

You know as well as I do that cops can make up ANYTHING or even NOTHING AT ALL as an excuse to stop you.

[Drew Dowdell]

^ Standard RACIAL corporate procedure, you mean.

Or Federal law.... you mean.

Showing the passport is just one of MANY options to show proof of eligibility of employment on the I-9 Form. It just happens to be the most convenient.