GM's fate: A Hail Mary

[VenSeattle]

Article here:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/06/news/compa...rtune/index.htm

[Ghost Dog]

The other article.

"The Tragedy of GM"

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/for...69111/index.htm

[Ghost Dog]

Anybody interested in the Big picture. Should read both those articles.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The biggest problem for GM in cutting the dividend is the headlines,

Once again... The press will ruin GM.

The other announcement that could come out of the meeting concerns the fate of General Motors Acceptance Corp., GM's major and very profitable subsidiary whose majority interest the parent has been trying for months to sell. The reason for selling is that GMAC's raw material is money and -- because of its scruffy parent -- it has been losing its access to its raw material. What GM and GMAC need is for a financially-strong buyer to come forth, one that by its very creditworthiness would earn good credit ratings for GMAC, too, and get it back in the commercial paper market from which it is now essentially barred.

And the street gets it's way... Congratulations on that.

It is the instinctive wish of most American businesspeople, even those unlikely to be directly affected, that General Motors not go bankrupt

I call bullsh*t

If that were the case then the media and the street wouldn't be pushing as hard as they can to bankrupt GM.

"They had it coming to them." But the majority

Should read: The majority will say: "They had it coming to them"

"They had it coming to them"----as if GM had stepped on their best friends grave or something... Why all the ill will? Because it's GM and Detroit.

the company is so central to the economy, so sprawling in its commercial reach, that bankruptcy--"going into chapter," as restructuring folks say--is ominous almost beyond contemplation.

Oh really?!?!?! Then someone better inform the analysts and the media so that they can stop LIEING to the public about "GM being insignificant to the economy" and "The new domesttics being our future"

Rick Wagoner, GM's 53-year-old chairman and CEO, may say, as he did in a January interview with FORTUNE in his aerie of an office high above the Detroit River, "I know that things will turn around." But he cannot know that. He may not, deep down, even believe it himself.

We ALL know that things will not turn around for 2 reasons 1) Take a look at history (Declining share for years) and consumer sentiment about the company and 2) Even if either of these did improve, GM would never get a break from the press... They've been brutally pushing GM into financial and image meltdown for 4 years now. And Rick knows this... He and his team gave up a LONG time ago IMO.

They're just waiting out the storm and 'willing' it to change.

now reduced to an embarrassing market share of 26%

Ummm....Embarassing?!?!?! Last time I checked, that still qualified as number 1 and it sure as hell puts the 17% of Ford and the 14% of Toyota to shame.

Give me a break.... Now GM, being the BIGGEST automaker in the world has "embarassing" market share numbers.... This must be a universal opinion now, since I've read it in 2 or 3 articles.... I guess the media universally coordinated embarassing as "anything below 27%"

It is inextricably entangled in the bankruptcy of its biggest supplier, Delphi

Thanks to that BRILLIANT unregulated global economy... But wait?!?!? I thought those 'new domestics' were employing THOUSANDS of american workers making american parts?!?!?!?!

it is up against a formidable and sometimes militant union whose ability to accept the full reality of GM's problems is not assured.

Yep... The mob..

The company is even under investigation by the SEC for accounting sins, as yet unrevealed.

They just figured they'd follow the trends and hate/pile on GM just like everybody else in america.

And gravely, it is burdened by health costs, which it supplies for a population bigger than Detroit's--that is, for a total of 1.1 million employees, retirees, and dependents. Its thriving Japanese competitors, such as Toyota (Research), pay health benefits for their U.S. active employees and dependents too. But Toyota does not have GM's retiree health burden, a mountain that at year-end totaled an unfunded $64 billion and that, in annual effect on the bottom line, adds about $1,300 to the cost of every car and truck GM makes in the U.S.

2 words: NATIONAL SOLUTION...

2 more words: YEAH RIGHT!

that accused GM's executives of lacking "urgency" and "sense of purpose."

Couldn't have said it better myself...

The gist of GM's sales problem is summed up by Don Freda, a suburban New Yorker who has run an independent auto-repair shop for 52 years. What, he is asked, do you think about the quality of GM's cars these days? "They're very good," he answers. "They don't break like they used to." Then, immediately, "But nobody will buy them."

To me, this indicates a problem with marketing and PR.

There's an implied message in what Bush said--"W to GM: Drop Dead." Which it probably will.

Nice....

*****Anybody remember last week when I said that the media would BOMBARD GM with negative PR to wash away the good January sales performance??? Look no further than this week for proof.*****

[enzl]

Once again... The press will ruin GM.

And the street gets it's way... Congratulations on that.

I call bullsh*t

If that were the case then the media and the street wouldn't be pushing as hard as they can to bankrupt GM.

Should read: The majority will say: "They had it coming to them"

"They had it coming to them"----as if GM had stepped on their best friends grave or something... Why all the ill will? Because it's GM and Detroit.

Oh really?!?!?! Then someone better inform the analysts and the media so that they can stop LIEING to the public about "GM being insignificant to the economy" and "The new domesttics being our future"

We ALL know that things will not turn around for 2 reasons 1) Take a look at history (Declining share for years) and consumer sentiment about the company and 2) Even if either of these did improve, GM would never get a break from the press... They've been brutally pushing GM into financial and image meltdown for 4 years now. And Rick knows this... He and his team gave up a LONG time ago IMO.

They're just waiting out the storm and 'willing' it to change.

Ummm....Embarassing?!?!?! Last time I checked, that still qualified as number 1 and it sure as hell puts the 17% of Ford and the 14% of Toyota to shame.

Give me a break.... Now GM, being the BIGGEST automaker in the world has "embarassing" market share numbers.... This must be a universal opinion now, since I've read it in 2 or 3 articles.... I guess the media universally coordinated embarassing as "anything below 27%"

Thanks to that BRILLIANT unregulated global economy... But wait?!?!? I  thought those 'new domestics' were employing THOUSANDS of american workers making american parts?!?!?!?!

Yep... The mob..

They just figured they'd follow the trends and hate/pile on GM just like everybody else in america.

2 words: NATIONAL SOLUTION...

2 more words: YEAH RIGHT!

Couldn't have said it better myself...

To me, this indicates a problem with marketing and PR.

Nice....

*****Anybody remember last week when I said that the media would BOMBARD GM with negative PR to wash away the good January sales performance??? Look no further than this week for proof.*****

While the tone certainly isn't positive, it seems that the vast 'media conspiracy' is again taking the blame when GM management and the unions should....these are mistakes of GM's own making!

Not one of these writers 'made' GM produce mediocre product or made GM's union contract or hiked gas prices....they're reporting the news, and, like it or not, its not a pretty picture.

Also, while the January numbers were better than expected, they were artificially inflated via large fleet deliveries and they did not rise proportionate to the market in general, resulting in a loss in Market Share....That's partially why they got very little attention

[trinacriabob]

GM has its share of problems and they are multi-faceted.

I think what GM is trying to do is attack their problems synergistically...across their product lines, cost structure and overall corporate strategy.

Cutting a dividend is a very, very serious thing. Stock prices are computed as a present value of all prospective outflows from a company. It generally reduce's the stocks value. However, in time, if the market perceives that the action was the correct thing to do (as it did in the case of Florida Power and Light - a case study I had to read), it will bounce back.

I think they need to really dissect what is going on and take a multi-faceted approach. They have to ask "What's wrong with EVERYthing?" They can't be in denial. There's a lot wrong. It needs to become a leaner organization, for one.

Boeing, another giant, has "ebbed and flowed." It's stock is in the mid 70s at this point. Hopefully, the General can make a comeback. I'll be standing by them.

[andy82471]

GM has its share of problems and they are multi-faceted.

I think what GM is trying to do is attack their problems synergistically...across their product lines, cost structure and overall corporate strategy.

Cutting a dividend is a very, very serious thing.  Stock prices are computed as a present value of all prospective outflows from a company.  It generally reduce's the stocks value.  However, in time, if the market perceives that the action was the correct thing to do (as it did in the case of Florida Power and Light - a case study I had to read), it will bounce back.

I think they need to really dissect what is going on and take a multi-faceted approach.  They have to ask "What's wrong with EVERYthing?"  They can't be in denial.  There's a lot wrong.  It needs to become a leaner organization, for one.

Boeing, another giant, has "ebbed and flowed."  It's stock is in the mid 70s at this point.  Hopefully, the General can make a comeback.  I'll be standing by them.

Boeing is doing well because of two key product; the Boeing 777 and the upcoming 787. Do you know why the 777 is the hottest selling commercial jet right now ? Because it is fuel efficient compare to its competition, the Airbus A340.

It is also bigger on the inside and much more comfortable on a long journey aka less turbulence at cruising altitude. Compare to the 777, the 340 is a gas hog thanks to the 2 extra engine it has. What GM needs is an automobile equivalent of the 777; something that is fuel efficient and yet refined and comfortable.

[balthazar]

While the tone certainly isn't positive, it seems that the vast 'media conspiracy' is again taking the blame when GM management and the unions should....these are mistakes of GM's own making!

Not one of these writers 'made' GM produce mediocre product or made GM's union contract or hiked gas prices....they're reporting the news, and, like it or not, its not a pretty picture.

And not one of these writer's will ever let the Vega or Cimarrron or any of the other long-gone "mediocre' products be forgotten.

Not one writer will cease to mention the historical high marketshare of GM from the 1960s, meanwhile never mentioning how out-of-touch the foreign makes were with the U.S. market in the 1960s.

Nor will one of these writers ever admit that no one at GM intends any singular move/ change/ new policy to be the single saving grace for the Corporation. Yet all I have read during this whole long sh!tstorm of bad press is 'Move X won't save the company', as if GM is clinically dead on the operating table already and a miracle is needed. NO ONE HAS EVER STATED OR BELIEVED ANY ONE MOVE WOULD TURN THINGS AROUND. Why for God's sake can we never escape that towering 'DUH!' in the press???

On & on about how GM was concentrating on trucks, but no concurrent mention of how the truck market was rising every year to eclipse that of the car market... just a blind assumption that cars are somehow more pertinent or preferred over trucks (obviously not true). Then the truck market peaks and declines a bit..... but nary a mention of that in a SINGLE review of any new foreign truck or new U.S. foreign truck plant.

>>"He may not, deep down, even believe it himself."<<

This is NOT reporting, it is witch-hunting. Garbage, damaging garbage that has absolutely nothing to do with the Citation.

enzl- open your eyes and stop sucking down the rhetoric! Way too much partiality in 'journalism' today.

Edited February 8, 2006 by balthazar

[razoredge]

Look guys.....people live well in this country, it was a goal of this country for decades.....hell centuries ! "better quality of life". Im talking across the board here - white collar, blue collar, waitress or receptionist, air pilot or crane operater - we have fought for a better quality of life.

Now we have the global economy and our operations can not keep up with the R&D dollars or material dollars of foreign held & labored companies.

Now here we are ! Its TODAY and Today its biting us in the ass. Even now with GM seriously trying to make great strides in development and quality of hardware they still have a severe disadvantage.....they are an American company operating in America supporting the American way of life........not the Korean way of life, not the Japanese way of life, not the India way of life, the American way of life.

So now..... here we are ! Its TODAY and Today its biting us in the ass.

What are you going to do ?

Edited February 8, 2006 by razoredge

[enzl]

>>"He may not, deep down, even believe it himself."<<

This is NOT reporting, it is witch-hunting. Garbage, damaging garbage that has absolutely nothing to do with the Citation.

enzl- open your eyes and stop sucking down the rhetoric! Way too much partiality in 'journalism' today.

I'm not saying the writers are prophets (& you rightfully point out the cheap shot at Rick), nor have I made the statement that all of their viewpoints are 100% accurate, however...I'm not surprised to find that if the auto rags aren't after you, the general media is! (cue creepy music)

If one exhibits delusions of persecution in life, he/she eventually get meds or help or locked up....I addressed this in another post, but I'll repeat for those who missed my previous rant:

What is the more likely scenario:

The media is out to get GM. They've all engaged in a conspiracy to what end?

or

GM has some severe problems. All of which have been begrudgingly admitted in one form or another all over this board. In lots of ways-product, financial, employee relations, union militancy, etc...(and, all of the press that covers these angles covers it. SHOCKER. & it sells copy because the formerly largest corporation on the planet is on the ropes.

I'm not rooting for GM's demise my friend...I guarantee I have more riding on GM's success than you. I'm just calling it like I see it.

[trinacriabob]

Boeing is doing well because of two key product; the Boeing 777 and the upcoming 787.  Do you know why the 777 is the hottest selling commercial jet right now ? Because it is fuel efficient compare to its competition, the Airbus A340.

It is also bigger on the inside and much more comfortable on a long journey aka less turbulence at cruising altitude. Compare to the 777, the 340 is a gas hog thanks to the 2 extra engine it has.  What GM needs is an automobile equivalent of the 777; something that is fuel efficient and yet refined and comfortable.

Sidebar -- sidebar -- but that's cool:

Yes, Boeing knows where the market is, more so than GM does. Boeing's 777 and 787 have great versatility and there is more growth projected for short to medium haul flights, which the latter plane ought to handle well. Boeing has the option of doing another variant on the "47" which, as anyone who knows me well on the site can attest, gives me goosebumps...I love it. (Incidentally, are you sure that the A340 consumes that much more fuel than a Triple 7? Each engine on the Triple 7 puts out some 90,000 to 105,000 lbs. of thrust which is mind boggling. Each of the 4 engines on the A340 puts out about 30,000 to 40,000 lbs of thrust. They are considerably smaller in size. It's obvious by being near one. However, take note that A340 literature really plays up that you are traveling on your "over the water" flight with 4 engines).

Yes, true. GM needs to identify their 777s and 787 Dreamliners.

[balthazar]

It is -of course- NOT an organized conspiracy. But as you stated: 'it sells copy because the formerly largest corporation on the planet is on the ropes'.

People enjoy reading about misfortune- likely it makes them feel better about themselves. It has been documented that collectively- people are less satisfied with their lives with each passing generation since roughly the mid '60s. 'Disenchanted' it is sometimes termed. What is the possible cause?

How could Raisin Bran have "More Raisins!!" for the 15th time- shouldn't it be 100% raisins by now?? Ask anyone- a computer is obsolete after 12 months- how could the most sophisticated machine (aside from a motor vehicle) be so continually and thoroughly eclipsed?? Look at car design; check a silhouette of a 1900, 1910, '20, '30, '40, '50, '60, '70, '80 car. Then look at a '90, 2000 and a '06. Progress has slowed dramatically yet all we are subjected to is "NEW and IMPROVED!!". It has become a self-fufilling, self-sustaining prophecy.

We came so far & so fast thru most of the 20th Century... but we're on the downside of the industrial & manufacturing progress bell curve now. Only medicine/surgery & programming seem to still be running with a full head of steam (<-- note anachronistic pun).

On the other hand: there is a tremendous glut in the media industry: there used to be 3 sources- TV (maybe 5 news stations?), print and radio. Now there is TV, cable TV, satellite TV, mobile phone TV, supermarket checkout line TV, 9,000 online news sources, many many more magazines & new-centric radio shows, and the latest: blogs. And (except for the blogger-) all these businesses require tremendous overhead/ operational costs. All this means the pressure is crushingly intense. How can so many more news sources with so much more at stake report on less news in an instantaneous-information age?

If you aren't making it up, you have to outshout the competition.

You sensationalize it.

The automotive journalism industry is heavily populated with stereotypes & cliche's as the writers attempt to familiarize themselves to you to get your attention. And in that 'misfortune' is today's dangling carrot, all sorts of angles are cooked and re-cooked, and it does work as far as circulation goes.

But is it even-handed... or overblown? IMO and experience, it is way out of proportion to reality and it is patently unfair.

I related this before; my 'eye-opener':

When I was about 14, I was reading the local paper. Prominently on the front page was an article about a GM recall of approx 375K units for a non-safety issue. On page 8 in a little sidebar piece of the same section was an item about the recall of 1 million plus VWs for something that could result in an engine fire. I was like 'WTF??!?' even at that age. Most everything I've read since has only supported that 'agenda' or psychosis or whatever it may actually be, and I am approaching the inversion of that age. It is real and it is pervasive. It's not a conspiracy but it is a phenomenon.

What will it take to change the status quo? Hopefully the bloggers & 'boarders can play a part in leveling the field a bit and shade some eyes from the bright blinding glare of marketing and 'journalism'. Before it's too late to right the wrong.

Sorry to ramble on so long...

[razoredge]

[andy82471]

Sidebar -- sidebar -- but that's cool:

Yes, Boeing knows where the market is, more so than GM does.  Boeing's 777 and 787 have great versatility and there is more growth projected for short to medium haul flights, which the latter plane ought to handle well.  Boeing has the option of doing another variant on the "47" which, as anyone who knows me well on the site can attest, gives me goosebumps...I love it.  (Incidentally, are you sure that the A340 consumes that much more fuel than a Triple 7?  Each engine on the Triple 7 puts out some 90,000 to 105,000 lbs. of thrust which is mind boggling.  Each of the 4 engines on the A340 puts out about 30,000 to 40,000 lbs of thrust.  They are considerably smaller in size.  It's obvious by being near one.  However, take note that A340 literature really plays up that you are traveling on your "over the water" flight with 4 engines).

Yes, true.  GM needs to identify their 777s and 787 Dreamliners.

Well, in aviation efficiency is measured in two ways. One is how many more passengers per gallon you can carry and there the 777 has a significant advantage. Remember, even a 5 to 10% increase in efficiency coupled with the fact that the 777-200 can carry more passenger than the 340-200/300 translates into big savings for airlines. Another fact to remember is that having 4 engines also means higher maintenence cost over a 2 engine jet. Plus, the 777 can also fly further than the 340 i believe. The 777-200LR has a range of more than 13,000 miles, which means it can fly non stop between two furthest point on earth. No wonder the 777 is killing the A340 in sales. Yep 777 is definitely the one I would buy over the 340 . Those GE115 engines really kicks some ass. GE really knows how to build powerful yet fuel efficient engines.

I believe Boeing is building a "stretched" version of 747-400 to compete with the A380. If the pricing is competitive, I think it should do quite well.

[enzl]

It is -of course- NOT an organized conspiracy. But as you stated: 'it sells copy because the formerly largest corporation on the planet is on the ropes'.

People enjoy reading about misfortune- likely it makes them feel better about themselves. It has been documented that collectively- people are less satisfied with their lives with each passing generation since roughly the mid '60s. 'Disenchanted' it is sometimes termed. What is the possible cause?

How could Raisin Bran have "More Raisins!!" for the 15th time- shouldn't it be 100% raisins by now?? Ask anyone- a computer is obsolete after 12 months- how could the most sophisticated machine (aside from a motor vehicle) be so continually and thoroughly eclipsed?? Look at car design; check a silhouette of a 1900, 1910, '20, '30, '40, '50, '60, '70, '80 car. Then look at a '90, 2000 and a '06. Progress has slowed dramatically yet all we are subjected to is "NEW and IMPROVED!!". It has become a self-fufilling, self-sustaining prophecy.

We came so far & so fast thru most of the 20th Century... but we're on the downside of the industrial & manufacturing progress bell curve now. Only medicine/surgery & programming seem to still be running with a full head of steam (<-- note anachronistic pun).

On the other hand: there is a tremendous glut in the media industry: there used to be 3 sources- TV (maybe 5 news stations?), print and radio. Now there is TV, cable TV, satellite TV, mobile phone TV, supermarket checkout line TV, 9,000 online news sources, many many more magazines & new-centric radio shows, and the latest: blogs. And (except for the blogger-) all these businesses require tremendous overhead/ operational costs. All this means the pressure is crushingly intense. How can so many more news sources with so much more at stake report on less news in an instantaneous-information age?

If you aren't making it up, you have to outshout the competition.

You sensationalize it.

The automotive journalism industry is heavily populated with stereotypes & cliche's as the writers attempt to familiarize themselves to you to get your attention. And in that 'misfortune' is today's dangling carrot, all sorts of angles are cooked and re-cooked, and it does work as far as circulation goes.

But is it even-handed... or overblown? IMO and experience, it is way out of proportion to reality and it is patently unfair.

I related this before; my 'eye-opener':

When I was about 14, I was reading the local paper. Prominently on the front page was an article about a GM recall of approx 375K units for a non-safety issue. On page 8 in a little sidebar piece of the same section was an item about the recall of 1 million plus VWs for something that could result in an engine fire. I was like 'WTF??!?' even at that age. Most everything I've read since has only supported that 'agenda' or psychosis or whatever it may actually be, and I am approaching the inversion of that age. It is real and it is pervasive. It's not a conspiracy but it is a phenomenon.

What will it take to change the status quo? Hopefully the bloggers & 'boarders can play a part in leveling the field a bit and shade some eyes from the bright blinding glare of marketing and 'journalism'. Before it's too late to right the wrong.

Sorry to ramble on so long...

100% Correct as to the media's fascination with the 'it bleeds, it leads' mentality.

I just cannot, for the life of me, drum up sympathy for those that put themselves in the spotlight and then whine when the monster they created turns on them.

It happens with celebrities, politicians, companies, etc...my point is that this situation could/should have been avoided. All that we're seeing now is inevitable result of reaping what you sow.

I understand that many on this board are sympathetic to GM's plight. I feel that there are too many families, too many communities and too many people that have been negatively affected by GM's incompetence to let them off the hook. If I'm wrong, then fine.

It takes exactly the same amount of money to put out a 'good' design vs. 'a bad' design. Why spend millions on lawyers to fight EPA regs on emissions when the greater LA basin is being swallowed by smog? These are acts which I cannot forget, but I'd forgive GM if they learned from their mistakes. It's clear (to me)

that they haven't...Again, I don't wish this fate on them, nor to I get joy out of their pain, butas someone with my future and my living and my money on the line, I just won't let it go.

[trinacriabob]

Well, in aviation efficiency is measured in two ways. One is how many more passengers per gallon you can carry and there the 777 has a significant advantage.  Remember, even a 5 to 10% increase in efficiency coupled with the fact that the 777-200 can carry more passenger than the 340-200/300 translates into big savings for airlines. Another fact to remember is that having 4 engines also means higher maintenence cost over a 2 engine jet. Plus, the 777 can also fly further than the 340 i believe. The 777-200LR has a range of more than 13,000 miles, which means it can fly non stop between two furthest point on earth. No wonder the 777 is killing the A340 in sales. Yep 777 is definitely the one I would buy over the 340 . Those GE115 engines really kicks some ass. GE really knows how to build powerful yet fuel efficient engines.

I believe Boeing is building a "stretched" version of 747-400 to compete with the A380. If the pricing is competitive, I think it should do quite well.

I probably should get over the 2 engine over the water issue. It has been with us for as long as the "67" has been around -- that craft has been dubbed the "transatlantic workhorse."

As for 747 variants, such as the 500, I think it makes more sense than the cattle car they call the A380. The "47" will always be a looker. The A380 will always be ugly.

Ok, back to GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

While the tone certainly isn't positive, it seems that the vast 'media conspiracy' is again taking the blame when GM management and the unions should....these are mistakes of GM's own making!

Both are to blame.

Not one of these writers 'made' GM produce mediocre product or made GM's union contract or hiked gas prices....they're reporting the news, and, like it or not, its not a pretty picture.

First of all, they certainly aren't cutting GM any slack. Secondly, a lot of the articles dealing with Chapter 11 are dealing with "what if" scenarios and third, a lot of the "news" is effectively "gossip" or axe grinding ESPECIALLY when it comes to Detroit.

Also, while the January numbers were better than expected, they were artificially inflated via large fleet deliveries and they did not rise proportionate to the market in general, resulting in a loss in Market Share....That's partially why they got very little attention

First; I'd like to see proof of this... Secondly, it doesn't matter. The point was that January brought forth POSITIVE movement and POSITIVE news that, as I pointed out, has been killed dead in it's tracks as fast as the collective media could kill it. How is any of this relevant? Stock price, potential sales, public perception, etc...

Could the media have NOT reported on the January numbers more? Why are they universally ignored??? Could it be for the reason you stated? Maybe. Could it be because a lot of the media has a grudge against Detroit succeeding? Probably. Or could it be because the "analysts" and media COMPLETELY and TOTALLY missed the mark and don't want the embarassment of actually ADMITTING that they can't predict the future? MOST LIKELY

as if GM is clinically dead on the operating table already and a miracle is needed.

It is... The media is writing it's last rights as we speak. (a.k.a. The epic articles like this that paint GM as a fallen and failed giant--even while their GLOBAL operations are accelerating and they are STILL the biggest player on the block)

And as far as the wagoner comment goes.... I agree 100%. Blind speculation (Or future predicting as he is, afterall the media)

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'm not saying the writers are prophets (& you rightfully point out the cheap shot at Rick), nor have I made the statement that all of their viewpoints are 100% accurate, however...I'm not surprised to find that if the auto rags aren't after you, the general media is! (cue creepy music)

If one exhibits delusions of persecution in life, he/she eventually get meds or help or locked up....I addressed this in another post, but I'll repeat for those who missed my previous rant:

What is the more likely scenario:

The media is out to get GM. They've all engaged in a conspiracy to what end?

or

GM has some severe problems. All of which have been begrudgingly admitted in one form or another all over this board. In lots of ways-product, financial, employee relations, union militancy, etc...(and, all of the press that covers these angles covers it. SHOCKER. & it sells copy because the formerly largest corporation on the planet is on the ropes.

I'm not rooting for GM's demise my friend...I guarantee I have more riding on GM's success than you. I'm just calling it like I see it.

I don't understand where all this conspiracy theory junk comes from... No one has EVER mentioned a conspiracy...

What I have suggested though is a predisposed psychological attitude AGAINST GM and FOR Japan Inc that has compounded over the years and thus CREATES bias in the media... It's simple psychology that I will explain if anyone wants a boring lecture.

It's the same basic concept as being prejudice against a certain race in favor of another.

I understand that many on this board are sympathetic to GM's plight. I feel that there are too many families, too many communities and too many people that have been negatively affected by GM's incompetence to let them off the hook. If I'm wrong, then fine.

Okay, because years of DRIVING the economy, then saving it's ass again in 2001 and years of OVER PAYING thousands of workers and years of paying HUGE pensions and being the nations LARGEST medicare provider is "NEGATIVELY" affecting lives... Yet, as usual, NONE of that matters... It's the NEGATIVE that we must focus on with GM.

Having ONE &#036;h&#33;ty GM car PALES in comparison... GM has done MUCH for this country, and what does it get in return? Sh*t like this CONSTANTLY in the media and a public that turns it's nose up and won't even consider a GM vehicle... I swear, if I were in charge, I'd move GM to China and say TO HELL with this country.

[evok]

When I was growing up my dad had one saying he pounded into my head and it is this:

"YOU MAKE YOUR OWN BED, YOU SLEEP IN IT"

[drew770]

It's amazing that GM has done what the American Government should have done!! Provide the american worker with healthcare and a pension and now GM is getting punished for it.

Yes, GM has gotten fat and lazy and quality of some of it's vehicles is still not all that outstanding but the GM "Death Watch" is silly and unfair.

How fast do the media want GM to turn it around? Do they want GM to drop it's pension plans? Dump all but 3 brands? Or better yet lay off an additional 50,000 workers?

GM has to balance alot of crap just to make everyone happy. They have to satifiy Wall Street with layoffs and plant closings but try not to step on the UAW's toes! They have to still provide health care and pension for retirees but some how cut benefits to make a profit!

I for 1 don't understand all of GM's decisions lately (2010 Malibu update???) but I wouldn't want Wagoners job either!

It takes years for a company this large to turn itself around and for the life of me I just don't understand why the media can't give GM some slack!

[Camino LS6]

I have noted the following phenomena:

Whenever the media reports on something I have even a passing knowledge of, they proclaim at least one gross inaccuracy or outright falsehood per report.

The media isn't evil, they are incompetent: and that,my friends, is a scary thing in a "free" society.

GM does a much better job of building cars than the media does reporting the facts.

Those in glass houses...

[Munson05]

at the very least it shows they are serious and between the dividends and the top salarys being cut they will cut a lot of money from the over head and that has to help. As for the media i think its kind of strange how GMs problems are reported, you dont hear of Mitsubishis problems or DCX advertising full storage lots, I dont know about conspiracy theorys but it the media does hammer GM. Ford might be worse off but the media doesnt report on them as much. IMO ford is in bigger trouble anyway the products they have been producing kind of suck. The new Navigator is real ugly and the 500/fusion is a boring bust. I am pulling for Ford and I hope they get it together. GM and Ford are important to America.

[trinacriabob]

How about this spin on it -- there are a lot of people out there who don't think owning a domestic car (be it GM or our competitors) is cool.

Tonight, as I came back from my evening class, I noticed uninterrupted rows of foreign cars in the parking structure. I thought: "What's wrong with these people?" Well, maybe nothing, but I think there's a plethora of good products to satisfy their needs domestically.

I, for one, have never cared if my car was cool or not...I was ecstatic to have a Cutlass Supreme (Rocket) 350 V8 coupe with almost all the goodies when I turned 16. Sure, my friends razzed me that it wasn't sporty or it was too big or that I was too young to have that kind of car as they drove their Celicas, Z's and God knows what.

Back to the topic, a lot of it IS perception more so than media spoon feeding. Some people think that owning that foreign car speaks to their level of sophistication and savviness.

[balthazar]

OK, but where did they 'learn' this? No one is born with these convictions... and we've all read allegations (even here) that writers are 'experts'.

Frankly I've always found consumeristic conformity repulsive and unappealing.

[SimonDavid]

Sidebar -- sidebar -- but that's cool:

Yes, Boeing knows where the market is, more so than GM does.  Boeing's 777 and 787 have great versatility and there is more growth projected for short to medium haul flights, which the latter plane ought to handle well.  Boeing has the option of doing another variant on the "47" which, as anyone who knows me well on the site can attest, gives me goosebumps...I love it.  (Incidentally, are you sure that the A340 consumes that much more fuel than a Triple 7?  Each engine on the Triple 7 puts out some 90,000 to 105,000 lbs. of thrust which is mind boggling.  Each of the 4 engines on the A340 puts out about 30,000 to 40,000 lbs of thrust.  They are considerably smaller in size.  It's obvious by being near one.  However, take note that A340 literature really plays up that you are traveling on your "over the water" flight with 4 engines).

Yes, true.  GM needs to identify their 777s and 787 Dreamliners.

All other things being equal 2 big engines are always more fuel and cost efficient than 4 little ones. Half the number of parts. Sort of like the economy penalty of permanent 4wd, except that for airlines a 5 % effiency gain is a huge amount. Also the "4 engines over water" thing is a myth. The biggest risk is engine failure on takeoff - that's the only time full power is being used. So every 2 engined plane is designed and tested so that it is able to take off with only 1 engine.

[SimonDavid]

If you want to take the Boeing analogy further :

The only way Boeing managed to launch the 787 is by getting foreign risk sharing partners. The Japanese are building AND DESIGNING about 40% of the value of the aircraft. Boeing has become a systems integrator - that's how they are staying in business.

They've also made big cuts in jobs and retirement benefits, and GE, through its leasing operation, has a large sway over the business.

[ellives]

It's the nature of business in America.... it runs quarter to quarter with very little strategic thinking. I honestly don't know how a public company can survive with unions. When negotiation time arrives the union is well aware of the profit and cash pictures of the company so the union competes based on the company's ability to pay AT THE TIME THE NEGOTIATION HAPPENS. The union will look at the profit and consider it as their own little pot of gold.

Unions create the natural "we/they" scenario instead of a spirit of cooperation and mutual goal of business survival and profitability. I have employees that behave this way even without the union - I get rid of them as quickly as I can. They aren't healthy for the business.

It's amazing that GM has done what the American Government should have done!! Provide the american worker with healthcare and a pension and now GM is getting punished for it.

Yes, GM has gotten fat and lazy and quality of some of it's vehicles is still not all that outstanding but the GM "Death Watch" is silly and unfair.

How fast do the media want GM to turn it around?  Do they want GM to drop it's pension plans?  Dump all but 3 brands? Or better yet lay off an additional 50,000 workers?

GM has to balance alot of crap just to make everyone happy.  They have to satifiy Wall Street with layoffs and plant closings but try not to step on the UAW's toes!  They have to still provide health care and pension for retirees but some how cut benefits to make a profit!

I for 1 don't understand all of GM's decisions lately (2010 Malibu update???) but I wouldn't want Wagoners job either!

It takes years for a company this large to turn itself around and for the life of me I just don't understand why the media can't give GM some slack!