C/D review of Lucerne on stands

[Cananopie]

One final time: none of us says the Lucerne is uncompetitive, but what little flaws it does have are painfully obvious.

Then the discussion changed because it used to be that the Lucerne was at least 5 years dated. That is why I'm so resiliant about this topic. The Lucerne can be improved but from the fact that the LeSabre was the best selling full sized sedan for just about ever, better car or not in your eyes more people wanted it than the Avalon by almost double. So abandoning what brings in almost double more sales is a pretty ridiculous idea.

The direction they're moving in is something that is very competitive and upscale and I think from the Regal Century and LeSabre to the Lacrosse then to the Lucerne and now to the Enclave it is the best financial move corporately for them to make at the time. I'd say everyone would agree the Lucerne is a lot more competitive to the quality of the Avalon than the LeSabre, but the LeSabre still had more sales. Without abandoning the LeSabre as Oldsmobile abandoned their crowd so rapidly and moving to a more refined direction GM and Buick are making the best move with this vehicle.

Especially in a couple years when Buick makes a Lucerne Super and it will be even better. But don't be so positive that you know what people want when it is strikingly obvious people wanted the LeSabre over the Avalon. There is no reason why people would want to leave to Toyota if they like the LeSabre with the Lucerne.

Edited February 16, 2006 by Cananopie

[turbo200]

Then the discussion changed because it used to be that the Lucerne was at least 5 years dated. That is why I'm so resiliant about this topic. The Lucerne can be improved but from the fact that the LeSabre was the best selling full sized sedan for just about ever, better car or not in your eyes more people wanted it than the Avalon by almost double. So abandoning what brings in almost double more sales is a pretty ridiculous idea.

The direction they're moving in is something that is very competitive and upscale and I think from the Regal Century and LeSabre to the Lacrosse then to the Lucerne and now to the Enclave it is the best financial move corporately for them to make at the time. I'd say everyone would agree the Lucerne is a lot more competitive to the quality of the Avalon than the LeSabre, but the LeSabre still had more sales. Without abandoning the LeSabre as Oldsmobile abandoned their crowd so rapidly and moving to a more refined direction GM and Buick are making the best move with this vehicle.

Especially in a couple years when Buick makes a Lucerne Super and it will be even better. But don't be so positive that you know what people want when it is strikingly obvious people wanted the LeSabre over the Avalon. There is no reason why people would want to leave to Toyota if they like the LeSabre with the Lucerne.

you are resilient and passionate for Buick...this is appreciated, but you're making me sound tired :AH-HA_wink:

you have to read what I say carefully and don't misinterpret it....because that's what you're doing

I never said the Lucerne was 5 years dated. I did say the interior was dated by that much though....

It's the hard dash materials, as well as the black plastic surrounding the radio and HVAC controls, and the uninspiring design of the center console of the Lucerne that really disappoint me most. If you want to sell a luxury sedan, your car better say luxury on the inside, and Lucerne just does not. Maybe 5 years ago, but the competition has moved on.

Lucerne's most disappointing aspect is the interior. For a car that bases around 27k to have an interior with subpar quality to an old Accord, and a drab dull design is not acceptable for where the market is today.

I have high hopes for Buick, but if they plan on turning it around and surviving they need to wow the customer. They need to be revolutionary. I know this sounds repetitive, but they need to produce something on a much higher scale than the competition for the same price. This is what must happen for Buick to be around 10 years from now. They must create image NOW! It must be an upscale, elegant, romantic, desirable image. I look at the Lucerne interior and I see very little desirable about it. Then I touch it, and it dashes all my hopes for that car. Immediately, I know it's nothing special yet again. For shame, Buick.

Buick is gradually dwindling to nothingness. Two sedans that don't stand out. One SUV that will stand out and draw the crowds bring hope. If you want to see something that hits the target market square on and has incredibly desirable features, look at the TSX interior, look at the IS' splashy exterior and terrific engine lineup, look at the RLs interior that looks like nothing GM could dream up at this point. These are the extra mile features that are put into vehicles at the competition to really WOW the consumer and shock them into beleiving there is no way that American crap down the street can compare. It is that shocking goodness that imparts a feeling of substance, richness, sophistication, and class. It takes creativity, it takes a willigness to take risks, it takes bringing the best engineering and quality you can bring to the table. The Lucerne is really just another Aurora, with nicer clothes and a neat gizmo suspension, creatively speaking at least.

[razoredge]

"but you're making me sound tired"..........NO !..........you are making your own.... sound.... TIRED............

Really Dude........enough is enough, this repeative dark cloud on every product topic is sickening, pages and pages of the same thing slightly reworded and reworked. Find a better and more productive way to exert your ambitions.

[gm_rocks]

"but you're making me sound tired"..........NO !..........you are making your own.... sound.... TIRED............

Really Dude........enough is enough, this repeative dark cloud on every product topic is sickening, pages and pages of the same thing slightly reworded and reworked. Find a better and more productive way to exert your ambitions.

I think I would have to agree, I'm tired just reading all of this.

I don't know how many people go around touching their dash as they're driving.. but what the heck.

If you guys have a problem.. go buy a Maybach or something.. then would you be happy?

[The O.C.]

The Lucerne can be improved but from the fact that the LeSabre was the best selling full sized sedan for just about ever, better car or not in your eyes more people wanted it than the Avalon by almost double. So abandoning what brings in almost double more sales is a pretty ridiculous idea.

I believe if you look at the industry "description" of the full-size sedan segment, you won't find Avalon. You will find the (old) LeSabre, Park Avenue, Deville/DTS, Crown Victoria, Town Car, Grand Marquis.

Being the "best-selling full-size sedan" as LeSabre was, is not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. It's a nice advertising theme for Buick...but that's about all.

The point that Turbo and I have been trying to make in this thread about Lucerne, is that Buick cannot afford to just appeal to traditional LeSabre and Park Avenue (and Crown Vic, et all) owners.

The MUST begin to broaden their horizons and start pulling in consumers that would not, in other cases, consider a Buick (or a GM product for that matter.)

Lucerne is a great start....but we are disenchanted by the lack (in certain areas) of Buick truly "sweating the details."

To think that the average (import) consumer doesn't care about the things we keep harping on is just plain self-absorbed arrogance on GM's part.

Maybe typical "full-size sedan buyers" don't care about (exacting) quality of materials or the lack of certain features such as T&T, xenon lights, "advanced" V6 powertrains and transmissions but THEY are NOT the ones that GM desparately needs in their showrooms....with checks in hand.....

Edited February 16, 2006 by The O.C.

[The O.C.]

I think I would have to agree, I'm tired just reading all of this.

I don't know how many people go around touching their dash as they're driving.. but what the heck.

If you guys have a problem.. go buy a Maybach or something.. then would you be happy?

You guys are........

TOTALLY......

MISSING......

THE......

POINT......

....as GM's product-planners and decision-makers have for WAY too long......

[razoredge]

You guys are........

TOTALLY......

MISSING......

THE......

POINT......

....as GM's product-planners and decision-makers have for WAY too long......

NO ! None of us are MISSING ANY "POINT", you guys just have your little "point" and want to keep shoving it in everybodys ribs, after awhile the one getting poked is going to stand up and say

SHUT UP !

YOU TURBO ENZL and HUDSON are missing the point..........we are sick of listening to you destroy every product thread on this forum with your dark cloud.

We are sick of all your negitivity..........just like your little speal you just had where you totally discredited the LeSabre . Which sold 114,000 in 04, not bad for a small nitch division considering Cadillac sold only 234,000 TOTAL or how about everybodys little runt puppy dog saturin @ 212,000 total.

get ready everybody - copy and paste for the 200th time the "fleet" speal, cause we all know thats whats comming next..........I just f@#ked up and gave a sales figure........you all know that only invites..........fleet..........fleet...........fleet.........fleet.......

If you guys hate GM products so much and have always hated GM products.........why do you come here ? Its apparent to me its for the sole purpose of downing the product and casting a dark cloud on every thread. There is just no logical reason what so ever why people that hate GM's so much would just keep popping up on a GM forum, and ever product topic that there is.

get ready guys, now comes the part that makes this dark cloud acceptable........"but GM is our favorite car company..........we too are GM fans (dont drive or own any) but we still are GM enthousiasts, we only care about what is best for GM (we're sure bashing the products is best, they all always sucked in the first place)"

yarite !

your here for the sole purpose of having fun degradeing our cars......it must be some kind of thrill. What do you do when not here, wonder various GM dealership lots, looking for prospective customers to point out all the flaws you percieve and point them the way to your favorite Honda or Toyota lot ?

So how about getting the point...........we are sick and tired of having every thread turned sour because the gang hates GM products.

[CSpec]

This bickering has gone on too long. Everyone here needs to calm down and learn to discuss things in a civilized manner and respect each other's opinions.

And razor, relax. Seriously.

[Cory Wolfe]

Razor... get over yourself. If there's any member people are sick of hearing, it's you. You are so out of touch with reality that it's sickening. It's not them, it's you. Now will you please "SHUT UP!"

[CSpec]

One more slanderous post and this thread is locked.

[razoredge]

This bickering has gone on too long. Everyone here needs to calm down and learn to discuss things in a civilized manner and respect each other's opinions.

And razor, relax. Seriously.

my apologies for responding to this post but somehow Im not seeing the balance here. Im supposed to relax, but its OK for this little group to continue what they have been up too ? Just look at the turn of events on every product post, where it begins to go sour, the efforts by many to dispell the myths. Yet the focus remains unrelentless that everything is inferior and will not end until we all succomb to the same beliefs that everything GM is inferior. I have not disrespected anyones opinions, however I believe that the opinions of those of us that approve of whatever it may be......is trudged upon quite heavily and very disrespectably. All good is over ridden by whatever little nit picky item could be pulled out for ammo. I have spent some time pointing out these various statements, as have many others.

I just want it to stop, enough is enough, we have page after page of the same dark cloud on every topic. Its never a discussion. Its always we are wrong and turned into some kind of arguement even when we have legitamate proof or explainations.

they say "dont shoot the messenger".........so dont shoot me, Im sending a message that is getting a bit rediculous and overbearing.

[Cananopie]

Being the "best-selling full-size sedan" as LeSabre was, is not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.  It's a nice advertising theme for Buick...but that's about all.

I think the the goal of every vehicle company out there is to have the best selling vehicle in their class. More vehicles sold means more income generated for the company... less vehicles sold ergo means less money. More vehicles sold means it's more popular than the car with less sold, right? So therefore it's a lot more than just a nice advertising theme... it's acutally a goal of theirs. It'd be unwise to just abandon where everybody is willingly putting their money.

Abandoning the loyal customers and hopping entirely on a new track is exactly what Oldsmobile did. The reason why Buick is down to only 3 vehicles that appeal to both loyal customers and draws in new customers is because all of the GM companies are dealing with the issues of losing about 25% of the market in the last 30 years and having to pay a lot of retired people what they can't afford to pay them anymore. It's not Buick's fault.

I've been trying to ignore the personal attacks on this site and I hope nobody got offended at anything I've said. It's a forum and I enjoy the discussion of very different opinions. I do not agree with any personal attacks and with OC or Turbo I'm honored you took the time to have the discussion with me. I'm not saying it to be corny or to suck up to any admins but I want no hard feelings because, after all, it's a car entushiast forum and forums are about fun.

Hopefully anybody who is personally attacking other people will restrain themselves and not pay attention to the topic anymore because it frustrates them so. I am all for civilized or even heated discussions but personal attacks are just wrong. Let's have fun guys! It's a forum to share our interests!

[The O.C.]

I think the the goal of every vehicle company out there is to have the best selling vehicle in their class. More vehicles sold means more income generated for the company... less vehicles sold ergo means less money. More vehicles sold means it's more popular than the car with less sold, right? So therefore it's a lot more than just a nice advertising theme... it's acutally a goal of theirs. It'd be unwise to just abandon where everybody is willingly putting their money.

Abandoning the loyal customers and hopping entirely on a new track is exactly what Oldsmobile did. The reason why Buick is down to only 3 vehicles that appeal to both loyal customers and draws in new customers is because all of the GM companies are dealing with the issues of losing about 25% of the market in the last 30 years and having to pay a lot of retired people what they can't afford to pay them anymore. It's not Buick's fault.

I've been trying to ignore the personal attacks on this site and I hope nobody got offended at anything I've said. It's a forum and I enjoy the discussion of very different opinions. I do not agree with any personal attacks and with OC or Turbo I'm honored you took the time to have the discussion with me. I'm not saying it to be corny or to suck up to any admins but I want no hard feelings because, after all, it's a  car entushiast forum and forums are about fun.

Hopefully anybody who is personally attacking other people will restrain themselves and not pay attention to the topic anymore because it frustrates them so. I am all for civilized or even heated discussions but personal attacks are just wrong. Let's have fun guys! It's a forum to share our interests!

The fact of the matter is.....as many on C&G know, Turbo and I want nothing better than to see a GM car (especially a Buick) like Lucerne achieve spectacular success in the marketplace.

In fact, there's many things I DO like about the car (its Phaeton-esque exterior styling, its overall suspension tuning (CXS) and 18-inch wheels, its NorthStar V8, its comfortable and roomy interior, and its overall value for the money.)

But there are many of us on here, like Turbo and I, that have VERY formed opinions (based upon our individual experience inside and outside the industry) on things that WE feel are keeping GM from conquering that DAMNED perception gap they are fighting. Because let's all face it.....THAT is what they have to conquer....if they are to be successful again. If they don't overcome the perception, then all their quality, reliability, engineering, styling, performance, and fuel economy gains won't mean one DIDDLY-SQUAT.

We (Turbo and I and others) LIVE through this damn battle every day....yes, partly because of where we live and the incredible and sometimes hard-to-rationalize bias towards imports here. We have close friends that we have battles with over GM versus imports....and I, for one, still work in an automotive industry where I am confronted with it every day on many fronts.

So.....in summary....it's been a good debate.

I just hope that somewhere, deep within the halls of "The Tubes"....someone is watching over all of us.....and taking into account the many differing opinions in threads like this......and hopefully taking note of the real experiences and views that are being PASSIONATELY offered on here.