“I would never say we would never talk about Pontiac again,” - Mark Reuss

[Oracle of Delphi]

Sooner or later I always get my way ...

Link - http://bit.ly/beK8By

[FAPTurbo]

I can hardly contain my EXCITEMENT!!!!!!

[Satty]

Its funny that Buick and GMC are both way up over last year even though both brands were supposed to die soon after BPG "anchor" Pontiac went away.

[balthazar]

Guess this time it's later..... like infinitely later, eh?

[ocnblu]

I sincerely hope it works this time. CAFE is the dragon burning up dreams with a single breath.

[FAPTurbo]

I sincerely hope it works this time. CAFE is the dragon burning up dreams with a single breath.

Um, I don't think it was CAFE that nailed Pontiac's coffin shut. After all, fantastic products like the G3 and G5 were great for raising the average fuel economy!

[ocnblu]

Booyah I am talking about Zeta, not Pontiac.

[Intrepidation]

Booyah I am talking about Zeta, not Pontiac.

CAFE wasn't responsible for Zeta's death, it was just an excuse.

[Satty]

fantastic products like the G3 and G5

EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Blake Noble]

Chances are favoring the slim side, but it's likely we will see a revival of Pontiac sometime after GM repays the government and restores its current core brands.

I don't think GM is going to forget Pontiac like it did Olds.

But if they build G6s and G5s again, they might as well invest a few bucks in wiping their memories clean.

Edited March 14, 2010 by whiteknight

[regfootball]

OOD, stirrin up trubble.....

[daves87rs]

Ummm...going to say no on that one.

[daves87rs]

OOD, stirrin up trubble.....

[CanadianBacon94]

i remember reading on this forum quite a while ago, that if they killed hummer they could have hummer edition GMC's and there was a chop of a suburban H2

i also read the idea of a core brand representing a departed brand like Pontiac GTO by GMC/(chevy/buick more likely)

Edited March 14, 2010 by CanadianBacon94

[hyperv6]

I would not read to much into this short term. But while a few people pitched a fit over Pontiac not making a fuss over the last G6 while some of us noted it was not a funeral. GM left a big gap in the Pontiac end that would make anything possible if given the right time and place to do it.

I just would not be expecting is in the near future. Things like Debt, other lines to fix and the Economy are things all needing to be sorted out. If GM can return to profitablitiy and sustain it many things could happen.

[Camino LS6]

Obviously, I'd like to see this happen.

Holding my breath isn't in the cards, however.

Until then, Chevy is my only hope.

[hyperv6]

Obviously, I'd like to see this happen.

Holding my breath isn't in the cards, however.

Until then, Chevy is my only hope.

Think of this as a long term goal.

[Camino LS6]

Think of this as a long term goal.

I guess.

What was done to Pontiac has left me cold. That, and the fact that nothing they are offering right now really floats my boat, just means I will stay out of the market for the forseeable future.

[daves87rs]

Think of this as a long term goal.

Maybe. I just don't see things getting better there soon...

[Oracle of Delphi]

Think of this as a long term goal.

Long term goal? Think again! Watch and see what happens when the loans are paid off! Things will happen so fast it will make your head spin ...

[Camino LS6]

Long term goal? Think again! Watch and see what happens when the loans are paid off! Things will happen so fast it will make your head spin ...

I sure hope so, I'm seriously underwhelmed by the status quo.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

Long term goal? Think again! Watch and see what happens when the loans are paid off! Things will happen so fast it will make your head spin ...

I understand. We will have to see.It is kind of hard for people to believe after getting burned by GM for so long. GM has to do a lot of winning people back and winning people over. I hope Oldsmobile people are not left out or forgotten either.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

So, how about an Olds revival?

START SOMETHING!

[gm4life]

Long term goal? Think again! Watch and see what happens when the loans are paid off! Things will happen so fast it will make your head spin ...

If you are trying to say we will see a Zeta Pontiac again, I am calling b.s. I still don't believe you that we will be seeing a Zeta Chevrolet "SS" or Caprice any day soon for the retail market. You say keep the faith, I am just looking at General Motors latest actions, nixing Pontiac, killing Olds, and have no faith. The PPV is my last hope I fear, and I would love to proven wrong. PCS just give me a date how long will I have to wait to hear all this good news? A month, half a year, a year, or like ten? The GM I know would be ten, prove me wrong. Please.

Edited March 15, 2010 by gm4life

[FAPTurbo]

You still can buy a G8 from a dealership...

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

So, how about an Olds revival?

START SOMETHING!

Loved that response!

I found this someone wrote on another site..

WHAT GM SHOULD HAVE ...

What GM should have been...

Chevrolet- Mainstream

Pontiac- Mainstream performance and slightly more luxurious (think poor mans BMW)

Oldsmobile- Technology driven near luxury but quirky (kinda like Saab)

Buick- Stunning, timeless, and beautiful upper-near luxury to luxury cars (think Lexus but with personality.) and of course....

Cadillac- Standard of The World...

It is kind of funny, but this is what GM is doing with the four brands they have...

I would not say Oldsmobile should be SAAB like, but the rest of what he stated, I agree with. Oldsmobile to me would be the technology driven near luxury brand, but all American in character and style. They would be the only GM brand to offer a car with a bench seat and those things associated with American cars.

[gm4life]

You still can buy a G8 from a dealership...

Won't be in the market for another year or two. They won't be around then.

[Satty]

Yay, lets go back to 17 nameplates and badge engineering!

[Camino LS6]

Yay, lets go back to 17 nameplates and badge engineering!

No, but let's bring back Pontiac as the brand it should have been without all of the jokemobiles.

[Satty]

So far in this thread its Pontiac and Oldsmobile. And I bet that if C&G had more diverse traffic we'd get Saturn, Hummer and Saab in here as well. Then Geo, LaSalle and Marquette might as well be brought into the discussion. GM has to please everybody, right?

[Camino LS6]

So far in this thread its Pontiac and Oldsmobile. And I bet that if C&G had more diverse traffic we'd get Saturn, Hummer and Saab in here as well. Then Geo, LaSalle and Marquette might as well be brought into the discussion. GM has to please everybody, right?

Please.

That is seriously rediculous and you know better.

[Satty]

Is it? Are your arguments for why Pontiac should come back any more valid than 98's arguments that Oldsmobile should be brought back? Or more valid than the arguments of any Saturn, Hummer or Saab faithful who thinks their brand should be first in line for a return? By implying that one discontinued brand should be brought back you're opening the door to discussions of the 46 other brands GM has dropped, which just leads to more fruitless bickering.

[FAPTurbo]

BRING BACK ASÜNA!!

[Satty]

BRING BACK ASÜNA!!

Re-invest in Fiat and Subaru and bring Isuzu back to the U.S.!

I know GM never owned Checker, but what the hell, bring them back too.

[Oracle of Delphi]

If you are trying to say we will see a Zeta Pontiac again, I am calling b.s. I still don't believe you that we will be seeing a Zeta Chevrolet "SS" or Caprice any day soon for the retail market. You say keep the faith, I am just looking at General Motors latest actions, nixing Pontiac, killing Olds, and have no faith. The PPV is my last hope I fear, and I would love to proven wrong. PCS just give me a date how long will I have to wait to hear all this good news? A month, half a year, a year, or like ten? The GM I know would be ten, prove me wrong. Please.

I'm not hear to argue with you, think what you want! But ask yourself this first, how often have I been wrong when it comes to GM? Not much, my record speaks for itself. Oh BTW, since you don't believe what I say, why do you PM me? Don't bother sending any more gm4life, you won't get a response! Have a nice day!

[Camino LS6]

Is it? Are your arguments for why Pontiac should come back any more valid than 98's arguments that Oldsmobile should be brought back? Or more valid than the arguments of any Saturn, Hummer or Saab faithful who thinks their brand should be first in line for a return? By implying that one discontinued brand should be brought back you're opening the door to discussions of the 46 other brands GM has dropped, which just leads to more fruitless bickering.

Quite different, actually.

And I know you are smart enough to know why without me listing the reasons.

[regfootball]

i can probably handle this no Pontiac thing ok anyways. That 2010 LaCrosse v6 I drove this weekend was a better and more satisfying drive than that G8 v6 I drove a little while back..........

[GMTruckGuy74]

I'd love the return of both Pontiac and Oldsmobile, and see GMC dealerships offer niche Hummer models (not the return of Hummer as a brand). All other diversified brands need not return (and this from a previous 2-car Saturn owner)

[balthazar]

So 'we' have these Buick-GMC dealers, that used to also carry Pontiac- so they're accustomed to higher product volume.

Hypothetically, what would be the business-standpoint arguments against a (hypothetical) Pontiac G8, Pontiac Solstice, Hummer H3T and an Olds Intrique being sold, under those names, in select Buick-GMC dealers ??

I'm not talking about the reality of a closed Wilmington/ discontinued Solstice - I'm asking about selling a few models that are distinct to their brand's ID, under those brand names, even tho their brand names are currently discontinued. Advertising, limited distribution... what are the obstacles ?

[hyperv6]

Long term goal? Think again! Watch and see what happens when the loans are paid off! Things will happen so fast it will make your head spin ...

That would be a welcome suprise! I hope GM follows trough. Any working date for the final loan payment? I know they would like to pay it off early if they can.

Would one clue be the dealers already Pontiac, Buick and GMC have not been taking down the Pontiac signs. I have noticed already the dealers that have no Pontiacs on the lot here still have not removed any Pontiac signs?

I would assume Pontiac as a limited performance division through Buick/GMC?

Hmm could this be why the Regal is not AWD as the AWD may go to Pontiac Tuner like car. Pontiac as a AMG like arm of Buick with real performance and no need to offer anything less like a G3-5-6 etc. Himmm? I know you can't comment but I was just thinking of the many ideas you have floated in the past.

Camino you still might just get you ST since they still build them with Pontiac noses. Also the fact Pontiac seems to be a hot spot for Austrailia a G8 could be a RWD perfomance car sold at a Buick dealer.

I know little is known on this but the options are many if they see it through.

Edited March 15, 2010 by hyperv6

[ZL-1]

Is it? Are your arguments for why Pontiac should come back any more valid than 98's arguments that Oldsmobile should be brought back? Or more valid than the arguments of any Saturn, Hummer or Saab faithful who thinks their brand should be first in line for a return? By implying that one discontinued brand should be brought back you're opening the door to discussions of the 46 other brands GM has dropped, which just leads to more fruitless bickering.

However, if Pontiac would come back as a single RWD model, for example... it might work in the Buick-GMC dealership context...

[Satty]

However, if Pontiac would come back as a single RWD model, for example... it might work in the Buick-GMC dealership context...

Even in that scenario I dont see the point in using a Pontiac badge over a Buick or Chevy badge. Even if they went with a full lineup (sedan/coupe/wagon/ute) there still wouldn't be any reason to resurrect the Pontiac name instead of calling it a Chevy.

[ZL-1]

Even in that scenario I dont see the point in using a Pontiac badge over a Buick or Chevy badge. Even if they went with a full lineup (sedan/coupe/wagon/ute) there still wouldn't be any reason to resurrect the Pontiac name instead of calling it a Chevy.

Well, for me it would only make sense in the context of Buick-GMC (step up from Chevy, step down from Cadillac - assuming that is GM's vision and assuming GM even has a vision on how to place the brands) and it would mean no RWD for Buick. But I do understand where you are coming from, and personally I would choose to focus on the brands that survived Chapter 11 and proceed full-speed-ahead to strenghten those brands.

Edited March 15, 2010 by ZL-1

[gm4life]

I'm not hear to argue with you, think what you want! But ask yourself this first, how often have I been wrong when it comes to GM? Not much, my record speaks for itself. Oh BTW, since you don't believe what I say, why do you PM me? Don't bother sending any more gm4life, you won't get a response! Have a nice day!

PCS I really want you to be right AGAIN. Also you are right, you have been correct thus far. I really deep down do believe in your word, and think I will like what happens... But the question remains how long till I see it? Also for the record you are a total stinker! :smilewide:My question is, will this new stuff be around when I am getting a car in about 2 years? I don't really care what name it is, as long as it is a Chevrolet or Pontiac/Holden and the pricing is no more than mid 30's.

Edited March 15, 2010 by gm4life

[hyperv6]

Well I am going to take a guess at this.

Pontiac once the payments are done would become a Addition to the Buick GMC line up as only performance cars. To do this Pontiac would have to be cars that have a globaL connection in some way. Holden and Vauxhall already have strong perfromance images in Europe and down under. Holden still sells Pontiac nosed cars that are popular.

I could see this as a RWD Sedan with a small AWD sedan like the Opel OPC with AWD and a 325HP V6. All of these cars would be rebadged and sold in Europe the States, China and the middle east in some form.

I would also see a third car a coupe be added at some point. It could be already in the works unknow to us here as this is how GM is working today.

The Pontiac numbers will not be great nor will they be cheap. I would not expect anything under $30K.

No matter what the new Pontiac will be a global car and will be sold world wide under one name or another depending on the market. Holden is already doing Pontiacs as special edition Holdens.

If it is not real performance it will not be a Pontiac going forward. Think of this like the Special Vehicle division of Holden.

That is my guess.

Edited March 15, 2010 by hyperv6

[trinacriabob]

I don't think GM is going to forget Pontiac like it did Olds.

Agree. Some of us still haven't forgotten Olds, especially those of us who grew up with them and remember the Cutlass Supreme as the veritable American "king of the hill." For some folks who aren't car savvy, Olds and Buick are kind of synonymous.

However, Pontiac, in my mind, will always be the most evocative of the GM brands. I will sorely miss the Pontiac brand.

[hyperv6]

I am just not sure where Olds would fit in with a global statagy. The auto market is not as wide and varied as it once was. I agree Olds and Buick cover much of the same ground.

I am afraid Old is left to the past like Lasalle, Oakland and other retired GM names.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Yay, lets go back to 17 nameplates and badge engineering!

Sure... Why not?

No one said anything about any of that. And it's pretty obvious to anyone with a pulse that the above scenario is fruitless.

So far in this thread its Pontiac and Oldsmobile. And I bet that if C&G had more diverse traffic we'd get Saturn, Hummer and Saab in here as well. Then Geo, LaSalle and Marquette might as well be brought into the discussion. GM has to please everybody, right?

Yes, GM SHOULD please every buyer... That was the POINT of GM at one time. But for some reason, GM decided instead of using it's 8-10 divisions to cover every aspect of the market, it would use it's 8-10 divisions to cover 50-60% of the market and call it a day.

So 'we' have these Buick-GMC dealers, that used to also carry Pontiac- so they're accustomed to higher product volume.

Hypothetically, what would be the business-standpoint arguments against a (hypothetical) Pontiac G8, Pontiac Solstice, Hummer H3T and an Olds Intrique being sold, under those names, in select Buick-GMC dealers ??

I'm not talking about the reality of a closed Wilmington/ discontinued Solstice - I'm asking about selling a few models that are distinct to their brand's ID, under those brand names, even tho their brand names are currently discontinued. Advertising, limited distribution... what are the obstacles ?

Nothing... Sales are sales, especially if the make a big profit margin.

Even in that scenario I dont see the point in using a Pontiac badge over a Buick or Chevy badge. Even if they went with a full lineup (sedan/coupe/wagon/ute) there still wouldn't be any reason to resurrect the Pontiac name instead of calling it a Chevy.

The point is the very argument you bring up: dilution of the brand name GM needs to figure out what it's brands are going to represent, and fast. Right now we have GMC's that are basically Chevrolets, Buicks that compete with GMCs on the same showroom floor. (Enclave/Acadia) Buicks with nicer interiors than Cadillacs. (Regal) Cadillacs that want to be Buicks (XTS) and Chevrolets that sell to Cadillac customers (Corvette). And to make matters worse, GM is beginning to dilute the brands further... Every Cadillac will have either a V-series model or a Platinum model. (Why can't Buick cover RPO Cadillac ground and every base CADILLAC be Platinum level?) Every GMC is apparently getting a Denali version. (So, how long until the Denali name is so whored out on the 'trim packages' they're doing now that it becomes another useless badge?) Chevrolet is now this albatross that must account for most of GM's sales and must target 5 different sets of customers with the same marketing $$$. AND Chevrolet is thinking of establishing a very 'niche-Pontiac-esque' SS sub brand. And Buick just has it's work cut out for it becoming relevant again, much less trying to be Saturn and Pontiac.

So what the hell does it matter? GM can either cover the market with more brands or dilute the hell out of already weak "core" brands. This costs the brands more identity and confuses the customer even more. Why not set a mission/image for the brands and target a SEGMENT (complementary to the other brands) of the market instead of trying to hose the whole thing?

Well I am going to take a guess at this.

Pontiac once the payments are done would become a Addition to the Buick GMC line up as only performance cars. To do this Pontiac would have to be cars that have a globaL connection in some way. Holden and Vauxhall already have strong perfromance images in Europe and down under. Holden still sells Pontiac nosed cars that are popular.

I could see this as a RWD Sedan with a small AWD sedan like the Opel OPC with AWD and a 325HP V6. All of these cars would be rebadged and sold in Europe the States, China and the middle east in some form.

I would also see a third car a coupe be added at some point. It could be already in the works unknow to us here as this is how GM is working today.

The Pontiac numbers will not be great nor will they be cheap. I would not expect anything under $30K.

No matter what the new Pontiac will be a global car and will be sold world wide under one name or another depending on the market. Holden is already doing Pontiacs as special edition Holdens.

If it is not real performance it will not be a Pontiac going forward. Think of this like the Special Vehicle division of Holden.

That is my guess.

Which was PCS's idea all along...

I am just not sure where Olds would fit in with a global statagy. The auto market is not as wide and varied as it once was. I agree Olds and Buick cover much of the same ground.

I am afraid Old is left to the past like Lasalle, Oakland and other retired GM names.

The only way I could see Olds coming back is through the green movement. Olds was always GM's 'techie' brand, right? So why not design a completely environmentally friendly car from the ground up (recycled materials, Voltec, butterfly farts for exhaust, the whole mess) and market it to a very specific crowd as "the automobile of the future" My thinking behind this even involves completely factory controlled stores (THINK: Apple stores, for example) in major urban markets (Maybe one city per state) "America's first automobile brand in the 20th century is now it's first automobile brand for the 21st century" (Cheezy, I know, but you get the picture)

Edited March 17, 2010 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'd love the return of both Pontiac and Oldsmobile, and see GMC dealerships offer niche Hummer models (not the return of Hummer as a brand). All other diversified brands need not return (and this from a previous 2-car Saturn owner)

I agree about the GMC part. Why not make a few GMC models true to the "GM's truck division" formula and let them compete with Jeep or Land Rover? The HX needs to be approved for GMC ASAP IMO. There is also room at GMC for a Raptor/Power Wagon fighter IMO and a small BOF SUV (THINK: Ford Bronco concept)

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

Strong points Future Of GM. Oldsmobile would be the innovation brand once again, and the place where new GM tech is used first. Oldsmobile would have very "American" looking cars with very "American" features. It would be a near luxury sedan that fills the spot that will be vacated by Lincoln Town Car(Ninety Eight), a near luxury coupe or 4 door luxury coupe(Toronado) that shares its interior with the Ninety Eight( think 1971-1976 Olds) a mid sized convertible/coupe( Cutlass) and Custom Cruiser sport wagon( Holden wagon). The emphasis is on style, looks and technology and innovation. This would be the only GM brand where you could purchase a car with a bench seat.

That is it. No more other cars, crossovers, or suv's. Leave that to other GM divisions.

The Pontiacs would be rear drive sharing the chassis with Holden, but follow Pontiac history. You would have Grand Prix, Bonneville, and Firebird. The smaller Cadillac ATS platform could create a new Grand Am. Pontiac would be Europe world class handling with a heritage of American muscle and affordable.

No trucks, crossovers, suv's etc.

No of this overlaps with the other GM brands or products they offer.