Pontiac G6

[pow]

That sounds like it is substandard then.  Too bad, I really like the new Camry as much as it pains me to say it.

Toyota seems to be dropping the ball with the new Camry... the seats look particularly downmarket and cheap, especially compared to some Tacomas.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/02...211074.2-lg.jpg

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/02...211074.5-lg.jpg

http://toyota.jbcarpages.com/Tacoma/2005/Bilder/Bild13.php

Edited February 28, 2006 by empowah

[bowtie_dude]

No I'm like that too.  Interior materials aren't much of an issue for me...design is much more important.  This is generally the area where japanese cars flop in my book.

See, I feel completely opposite. Acura and Lexus interiors, IMO, are the most well-designed in the industry.

[Snate]

See, I feel completely opposite.  Acura and Lexus interiors, IMO, are the most well-designed in the industry.

I'm more referring to mainstream japanese vehicles. Acura does have some nice interiors but I don't care for Lexus or Infiniti.

[The O.C.]

For those who continually bash the G6 for its interior quality, please get your a$$ into one and look at it first. What exactly do you mean by "quality issues"? It's not like it's falling apart or anything. I remember so well, I felt the dash of the so called luxury Acuras and Infinitis at the Auto Show, it's pretty much the same damn thing they use on my dash. Oh what? It "feels" rough? Quit the subjective crap!

I personally find the quality not a problem. I got what I paid for. Open your eyes and look at that damn window sticker. For the SAME EQUIPMENT it's THOUSANDS cheaper than the competitors.

If you guys have to continually have to bash how cheap the materials, fine. Get them to use leather or suede like on everything. But then morons will start complaining how high the price is. There's a balance to everything. You can't have everything and expect to pay nothing.

Here you go.....

The air vents have a cheap "clicking" sound when you move them (spin them around??).....cheap and brittle.

The center stack controls (radio and HVAC), which are shared with Malibu, are substandard and feel (and look) cheaper than anything I've seen in any recent Korean product even. Here's where even GM has shown how to do it better (Lucerne and Impala, etc...with the new "corporate" HVAC and radio controls.)

The center stack doesn't flow into the center console (why...? when there's no column shift/bench seat option.) Why? Because it's CHEAPER to design and engineer it that way. It looks unfinished and doesn't look like it matches center stack-to-console.

THAT being the case, the rest of the G6 interior, IMHO, is one of GM's better efforts. Dash and door panel plastics/graining/feel are as good as any imports.

Seats seem to be pretty comfortable.

Nice steering wheel and GREAT gauge cluster execution.

Ergonomics are fine......and even the overall styling of the dash and door panels is quite attractive.

But my previous rants above indicate to me that GM simply refused to "sweat the details" in those areas with the G6....and unfortunately, those are things that stand out in a BIG way to people comparing this car to Honda, Toyota, Mazda, and Nissan.

[The O.C.]

I doubt it would have popped out on a pothole, but let's say you have a big person in the front seat... if they were getting out and their knee hit the back of it getting out then I think it could pop out. I was actually thinking about that when I tugged on it and thought that a front-end colision might pop it out (and a relatively slow one - not a 35-40mph one).

O.C. - I'm sure there are GM vehicles that could do similar things. I could take the HVAC controls off my Alero, but it required more pulling still, and the Alero was a cheap little car. This was a $30k Camry that shouldn't have random parts popping off with a slight pull. Also, it's a Toyota, isn't it supposed to be bullet-proof?

The point is.....he's trying to bash the Camry by ripping something off the dash and taking a picture of it. That's all.

All of you should know the abuse ANY car in an auto show is subjected to.....this could have happened to ANY car on the floor.....be it GM, Toyota, or otherwise.

[Croc]

The point is.....he's trying to bash the Camry by ripping something off the dash and taking a picture of it.  That's all.

All of you should know the abuse ANY car in an auto show is subjected to.....this could have happened to ANY car on the floor.....be it GM, Toyota, or otherwise.

Dude. Get over it. Your precious Camry isn't all that and a bag of chips and every member on this board knows you'd CASTRATE the General using LOTS of unnecessary CAPITALIZATION about what TERRIBLE quality a GM car is if it had this same issue. Please, can you at least pretend to be balanced?

Between the latest Avalon and the new Camry it seems quality has taken a slight hit. Now, please remove the rose-colored glasses. Kthnxbye

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

For those who continually bash the G6 for its interior quality, please get your a$$ into one and look at it first. What exactly do you mean by "quality issues"? It's not like it's falling apart or anything. I remember so well, I felt the dash of the so called luxury Acuras and Infinitis at the Auto Show, it's pretty much the same damn thing they use on my dash. Oh what? It "feels" rough? Quit the subjective crap!

I personally find the quality not a problem. I got what I paid for. Open your eyes and look at that damn window sticker. For the SAME EQUIPMENT it's THOUSANDS cheaper than the competitors.

If you guys have to continually have to bash how cheap the materials, fine. Get them to use leather or suede like on everything. But then morons will start complaining how high the price is. There's a balance to everything. You can't have everything and expect to pay nothing.

LOL...

I agree about the quality, I just don't like the design. It's kinda bland.

As far as those constantly nitpicking GM interiors.... Well, they've just joined the legions of people who will ALWAYS find a reason as to why the [insert domestic here] isn't as good as the [insert import here]

And unfortunately, a LARGE majority of those people are in the press and analyst fields. So, I wouldn't expect the bias to go away anytime soon. If anything it'll get worse as these people try to compensate for differences that aren't really there.

Example: 5 paragraphs about ventiports in the C&D Lucerne article, or comments like "soft touch material" or "a similation of quality" or "the mouse fur headliner" and the list goes on and on.... It went from quality, to interiors to panel gaps to resale and now it's in the details and looks as if the next SUBJECTIVE dismissal tool is the "elusive---trust me I'm a pro" FEEL

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

***Okay, before I harass The O.C. a little bit I'll say this: I can understand to a large degree what people are talking about with GM interiors... They're good BUT they, like a lot of GM's cars overall, LACK ATTENTION to detail.

That said, I don't think the car should be bombed because of these details.

Here you go.....

The air vents have a cheap "clicking" sound when you move them (spin them around??).....cheap and brittle.

And this determines a 25K purchase decision? Better yet, the common consumer actually notices this?

The center stack controls (radio and HVAC), which are shared with Malibu, are substandard and feel (and look) cheaper than anything I've seen in any recent Korean product even. Here's where even GM has shown how to do it better (Lucerne and Impala, etc...with the new "corporate" HVAC and radio controls.)

I agree. Not BAD, but not as good as they can be...

The center stack doesn't flow into the center console (why...? when there's no column shift/bench seat option.) Why? Because it's CHEAPER to design and engineer it that way. It looks unfinished and doesn't look like it matches center stack-to-console.

That could be considered a matter of opinion.

But my previous rants above indicate to me that GM simply refused to "sweat the details" in those areas with the G6....and unfortunately, those are things that stand out in a BIG way to people comparing this car to Honda, Toyota, Mazda, and Nissan.

I agree (Guess I should've read ahead more)

Which boils down to: The G6 is damn good, but not good enough. My problem is this; the G6 was PANNED in the media. It got horrible review after horrible review if I remember correctly (Or at least I thought the reviews were bad) Yet, it's NOT a bad car!

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The point is.....he's trying to bash the Camry by ripping something off the dash and taking a picture of it.  That's all.

All of you should know the abuse ANY car in an auto show is subjected to.....this could have happened to ANY car on the floor.....be it GM, Toyota, or otherwise.

Oh WHAT-EVER dude... LOL...

Autoshow cars do undergoe a lot of wear and tear (But then so do rentals, press models and cars in general)

But, WOW... Talk about making excuses. But then again, I guess I know how it is to be biased too

[ToniCipriani]

Here you go.....

The air vents have a cheap "clicking" sound when you move them (spin them around??).....cheap and brittle. 

They're supposed to do that. Clicking or not clicking for being cheap is purely subjective. My friend's Mazda 3 does the exact same thing. Yet the media calls the Mazda 3 having the best interior in class (well to a certain extent, it is)

The center stack controls (radio and HVAC), which are shared with Malibu, are substandard and feel (and look) cheaper than anything I've seen in any recent Korean product even.  Here's where even GM has shown how to do it better (Lucerne and Impala, etc...with the new "corporate" HVAC and radio controls.)

Basic design, yes, but in fact they are different units. you're feeling it's cheap. Subjective.

The center stack doesn't flow into the center console (why...?  when there's no column shift/bench seat option.)  Why?  Because it's CHEAPER to design and engineer it that way.  It looks unfinished and doesn't look like it matches center stack-to-console.

Again, you're classifying it as looking cheap. Subjective.

THAT being the case, the rest of the G6 interior, IMHO, is one of GM's better efforts.  Dash and door panel plastics/graining/feel are as good as any imports.

Seats seem to be pretty comfortable.

Nice steering wheel and GREAT gauge cluster execution.

Ergonomics are fine......and even the overall styling of the dash and door panels is quite attractive.

But my previous rants above indicate to me that GM simply refused to "sweat the details" in those areas with the G6....and unfortunately, those are things that stand out in a BIG way to people comparing this car to Honda, Toyota, Mazda, and Nissan.

Read my last line.

What do you think an Average Joe will think after reading an article that consistently says that "the design is cheap"?

Edited February 28, 2006 by ToniCipriani

[bowtie_dude]

Its funny.

Despite a the few interior faults the G6 has, I absolutely LOVE this car. So much that I'm going to buy one hopefully by the end of the year. My wife gets a new Equinox first, since her truck is almost 10 years old and has 190k miles on it, so I still have to wait a while.

I'm HOPING against hope that I can find a used G6 GTP with a 6-spd when the time comes (can't afford a new one, I don't want to finance more than $20k). My head turns every time I see one on the street. Some of you may not like it, but I love it.

[pow]

Here you go.....

The air vents have a cheap "clicking" sound when you move them (spin them around??).....cheap and brittle.

They're supposed to do that. Clicking or not clicking for being cheap is purely subjective. My friend's Mazda 3 does the exact same thing. Yet the media calls the Mazda 3 having the best interior in class (well to a certain extent, it is)

The center stack controls (radio and HVAC), which are shared with Malibu, are substandard and feel (and look) cheaper than anything I've seen in any recent Korean product even.  Here's where even GM has shown how to do it better (Lucerne and Impala, etc...with the new "corporate" HVAC and radio controls.)

Basic design, yes, but in fact they are different units. you're feeling it's cheap. Subjective.

The center stack doesn't flow into the center console (why...?  when there's no column shift/bench seat option.)  Why?  Because it's CHEAPER to design and engineer it that way.  It looks unfinished and doesn't look like it matches center stack-to-console.

Again, you're classifying it as looking cheap. Subjective.

THAT being the case, the rest of the G6 interior, IMHO, is one of GM's better efforts.  Dash and door panel plastics/graining/feel are as good as any imports.

Seats seem to be pretty comfortable.

Nice steering wheel and GREAT gauge cluster execution.

Ergonomics are fine......and even the overall styling of the dash and door panels is quite attractive.

But my previous rants above indicate to me that GM simply refused to "sweat the details" in those areas with the G6....and unfortunately, those are things that stand out in a BIG way to people comparing this car to Honda, Toyota, Mazda, and Nissan.

Read my last line.

What do you think an Average Joe will think after reading an article that consistently says that "the design is cheap"?

Funny, you go on about how everything is too subjective for your liking, but when GM really tries, like with the interiors of the GMT900s or Enclave, everyone else recognizes them for it. The G6 is just another one of those pre-Lutz vehicles with diminished expectations.

[Northstar]

The point is.....he's trying to bash the Camry by ripping something off the dash and taking a picture of it.  That's all.

Umm, if something fell off a GM car people would be bashing it all the same. However, it just happened to be a Toyota.

All of you should know the abuse ANY car in an auto show is subjected to.....this could have happened to ANY car on the floor.....be it GM, Toyota, or otherwise.

Sure, they take abuse, but they're going to get a similar amount of abuse if you have kids crawling all over them when you buy them. No other vehicle had anything other than gear shift knobs and radio controls removed by the manufacturers. No piece of a center stack just magically fell off because of abuse.

[ToniCipriani]

Funny, you go on about how everything is too subjective for your liking, but when GM really tries, like with the interiors of the GMT900s or Enclave, everyone else recognizes them for it. The G6 is just another one of those pre-Lutz vehicles with diminished expectations.

My point was, if people go on just "saying" the design is cheap like that, nobody will actually go to the showroom and look at one, just because they're "said to be bad". More of a literacy problem though.

If it's purely his personal opinion, he should of used words like "I think". But clearly he's just claiming everyone thinks it's cheap just by looking or feeling. That's what you call subjective.

Edited February 28, 2006 by ToniCipriani

[I hope GMRULES again]

What I'm getting sick and tired of hearing about is all this talk about fit and finish and panel gaps and the feel of the plastic on the dash of any car. The quality of materials in the G6 could be a bit better but I wouldn't say its bad. Get in my friends 92 Tercel and you will see a cheap crappy dash. When I'm in the market for a new car I don't check to see how the air vents feel when I turn them. I've been reading so much of this crap lately that's its actually gotten to me too! Now when I get in a new GM car I'm looking for the faults. But after going to Detroit last month and getting into a lot of the competitions cars I discovered most of them are not all they're cracked up to be.

[Croc]

What I'm getting sick and tired of hearing about is all this talk about fit and finish and panel gaps and the feel of the plastic on the dash of any car. The quality of materials in the G6 could be a bit better but I wouldn't say its bad. Get in my friends 92 Tercel and you will see a cheap crappy dash. When I'm in the market for a new car I don't check to see how the air vents feel when I turn them. I've been reading so much of this crap lately that's its actually gotten to me too! Now when I get in a new GM car I'm looking for the faults. But after going to Detroit last month and getting into a lot of the competitions cars I discovered most of them are not all they're cracked up to be.

Seriously? You're comparing a 1992 Tercel to a 2006 G6. Seriously?

[turbo200]

Dude.  Get over it.  Your precious Camry isn't all that and a bag of chips and every member on this board knows you'd CASTRATE the General using LOTS of unnecessary CAPITALIZATION about what TERRIBLE quality a GM car is if it had this same issue.  Please, can you at least pretend to be balanced?

get over yourself. he's being perfectly subjective.

the camry issue is that one piece falls off, and now everyone is going to beat this issue like it's the fall of Toyota's reign. to paraphrase a certain famous somone, "yarite." Big deal, one piece falls off; when there are real quality issues like empowah might have been pointing out, then it's cause for complaint. I've heard millions of stories about GM interiors being ripped apart. no difference here. It didn't completely make a difference to the quality appearance and ambience then [except to the substance of the panels, which is a quality issue], and it doesn't affect the Camry's now. There will still be substance to the Camry's panels; the Rav4 has substantial, high quality materials, though the graining and feel could be just a bit better. This does not refute Toyota's legendary status of "bulletproof". This is an anomoly, and isn't relevant to the quality design and substance of the Camry interior, nor does it hugely reflect on the overall assembly.

The issue with the G6 is it's overall unfinished feel. The design feels unfinished, the quality feels a step or two behind, and then there's the powertrain/handling.....though these are subjective, because some could be satisfied with a boulevardier feel. [i feel the powertrain of a Pontiac should always be performance competitive and superior, since it's supposed to be about performance. Not to say the 2.4 shouldn't be offered, but the 3.5 should never have, and ultimately to fill that performance feel one must shoot for the high bar, and Altima has set it really highly. Ultimately, though the performance of G6s engines are satisfactory, if just a little short.] What isn't subjective is the unfinished, unpolished look of the interior. The materials are also a step behind. Finally there are still crucial design issues like the center pod shape, as well as the sparse console, shifter units, and cloth and leather materials. Ultimately their are serious improvements from before in panel feel, leather quality, and appearance, but it still falls short.

But. There is a reason people like the G6. Imo, it's among the best designed midsize sedans, and I appreciate the sporty nature of the theme. I think it's better resolved than thje Mazda6 or Nissan Altima, it's primary competition as far as design. For some people, Fusion is cool, for me it's conservative....Aside from design, the G6 is a wholly competent and well engineered car. It's a great value, it's just been greatly overshadowed. Methinks, the best recipe for success are an even more aggressive design, with new, redefined Pontiac design cues along with a superbly designed interior with the quality of future GM interiors, and the 3.9L engine as standard materials above the frugal but still sporty 2.4 [big issue, the current 2.4 appearance wise is decidedly economy; G6s base wheels along with black mirrors and unaggressive front fasica are the culprits].

[Croc]

get over yourself. he's being perfectly subjective.

the camry issue is that one piece falls off, and now everyone is going to beat this issue like it's the fall of Toyota's reign.

Ummmmm....yea and perfectly biased. It gets old, man, it gets old. And I don't see anyone acting like this is the fall of Toyota's reign, simply proof that the Camry might not be as well put-together as the last iteration. I like the new Camry; I've made that clear in previous posts. But c'mon, that's photographic evidence that a center stack panel just came off in Northie's hand...that shouldn't happen on any car. Don't make excuses for Toyota, man.

Did you forget that a test Avalon for a major publisher had interior pieces falling off?

[The O.C.]

Oh WHAT-EVER dude... LOL...

Autoshow cars do undergoe a lot of wear and tear (But then so do rentals, press models and cars in general)

But, WOW... Talk about making excuses. But then again, I guess I know how it is to be biased too

You can call me biased or not, but you won't see me "rip apart" peoples threads like you do...

Like YOU said....WHATEVER dude...

Edited March 5, 2006 by The O.C.

[The O.C.]

What do you think an Average Joe will think after reading an article that consistently says that "the design is cheap"?

You call many of my observations as "subjective."

That may be....however they are subjective observations that the media and many consumers in the marketplace have picked up on.

And, my Mazda6 vents were damped and did NOT have any sort of cheap "clicking" sound.

You asked for a rationale for people picking on the G6 interior's quality....and I tried to produce some constructive criticism in response.

[The O.C.]

Ummmmm....yea and perfectly biased.  It gets old, man, it gets old.  And I don't see anyone acting like this is the fall of Toyota's reign, simply proof that the Camry might not be as well put-together as the last iteration.  I like the new Camry; I've made that clear in previous posts.  But c'mon, that's photographic evidence that a center stack panel just came off in Northie's hand...that shouldn't happen on any car.  Don't make excuses for Toyota, man.

Did you forget that a test Avalon for a major publisher had interior pieces falling off?

Croc, I actually expected more from you......you really don't know me....so don't even BEGIN to try to catagorize me......THAT's what gets old from YOU....

There's no more bias from me than anyone else on here. You may or may not believe it, or you may or may not like it....but I call it as I see it...

And I'm sorry it pisses off the GM kool-aid drinkers on here....

OH, and BTW.....this supposedly "biased" person (that lives in import-dominated southern California) has two domestic cars in the driveway.....and one of them is actually a 2006 GM vehicle.

[Croc]

Croc, I actually expected more from you......you really don't know me....so don't even BEGIN to try to catagorize me......THAT's what gets old from YOU....

There's no more bias from me than anyone else on here.  You may or may not believe it, or you may or may not like it....but I call it as I see it...

Firstly, I didn't categorize you, merely called you out on some pretty obvious bias, nor did I ever claim to know you.

Now, OC, let's be honest. You go off on GM when their build quality is subpar. I do too. Part of not being biased though is having the self-awareness to know that you (and I for that matter) are some of the harshest critics of the General on this board. Now, I was giving Toyota the benefit of the doubt until I got more information from Northie, but that is some pretty inexcusable stuff from the new Camry, autoshow or not. You're making excuses for the Camry when you would not make those same excuses for GM. You're also denying the existence of bias when it is pretty obvious for everyone to see. So you're biased toward the Camry, big deal, but be honest about it. I'm biased toward the Mercury brand, Cadillac and Subaru. I'm biased against Mercedes-Benz, Toyota (though I do like the Prius and new Camry save build issues) and Lexus. It's out in the open and I'm not going to deny it.

You're pretty picky about tactile feel of switchgear and knobs as well as interior plastic. I just find it amazing you can give a Camry a pass at interior panels that just pull off. Regarding auto show cars, AH-HA seems to have no problem using them to test quality:

http://ah-ha.squarespace.com/display/ShowP...galleryId=23335

Edited March 5, 2006 by Croc

[I hope GMRULES again]

Seriously?  You're comparing a 1992 Tercel to a 2006 G6.  Seriously?

Not comparing, just pointing what a cheap interior really is.

[Satty]

Not comparing, just pointing what a cheap interior really is.

Cheap changes with time, advancements in engineering, design, build process mean that an interior that was world class five years ago is now cheap and ugly, thats how it goes. The world moves quickly, GM doesn't.

[The O.C.]

You're making excuses for the Camry when you would not make those same excuses for GM.

http://ah-ha.squarespace.com/display/ShowP...galleryId=23335

Lord Croc.....do you KNOW how many GM vehicles I've seen at auto shows with panels ripped apart or pieces that have fallen off? And YES....some of them have been at my hands....

But you didn't see me, biased or not, coming on here and posting a picture of the Equinox with the IP trim piece that came off in my hands....

....because I know that kind of $h! happens......be it Toyota, or GM, or whatever.

And it's not "excuses" for Camry......the new Camry's interior is superior to any comparable GM product in fit-and-finish, materials, switchgear, and overall styling (IMHO.)

You're still not going to see me go out and buy a Camry though....it's just not by gig....

[Domesticated]

And it's not "excuses" for Camry......the new Camry's interior is superior to any comparable GM product in fit-and-finish, materials, switchgear, and overall styling (IMHO.)

You're still not going to see me go out and buy a Camry though....it's just not by gig....

Sorry, the new Camry is an overrated piece of garbage. If you like imports and have a room full of C&D and Motortrend import humping mags and the walls are covered in your favorite "50 years of Consumer Reports Car issues" then I can see why you would be a Camry owner (Subjective statement, not directed at anyone in particular).

I wouldn't trade my G6 for a Bloated Toyota Tercel if my life depended on it. If it's anything like Camry's of yore, it'll have a thrashy engine, chintzy interior bits and comfort on par with a park bench. it is NOT a quality piece, and falls WAY behind the G6 in refinement.

JMust my .02

[Flybrian]

I wouldn't buy a Camry simply on the basis that a car that large with that large of an ass should not have a trunk that small.