One arrives...

[vonVeezelsnider]

Today my dad purchased a 2009 Impala LS in Slate Metallic, which will arrive on Thursday. It's the one I mentioned in the start of my previous thread. It's equipped much like my 2007 Impala, with Ebony Cloth buckets, OnStar, XM, Leather wheel, Folding Seat, 16" Alloys and Spoiler, but in addition this one also has Bluetooth and the now standard Dual-Zone climate control. Currently has 17000km (10500mi) on it and is less than a year since manufacture (mid-March 2009). Since it was built before the bankruptcy so this is probably the newest vehicle we'll ever have that was made by General Motors Corporation versus General Motors Company LLC.

That being said there might soon be a departure from the fleet as well. Never a vehicle that my parents have had a very loving opinion of, the Cobalt may be leaving soon. As some of you may know my younger brother turns sixteen early in June and will start driving. My parents have the intention of paying for his insurance for the first couple years he's driving as they did for me, and for the life of me I don't know how they didn't see this coming. Again, as some may be aware, my insurance on the Cavalier was about 4100$ when my parents were paying, but maybe my dad wasn't paying attention (my mom was), when I got the G5, and continuing through the Cobalt I've paid 5700 one year, 5500 the next, and this full year on the Cobalt would have been 5300. Bearing in mind I don't have any points, tickets or accidents to my name. Imagine my parent's surprise when they saw the insurance lady today to adjust the policies to put my bro on the Cobalt and were quoted a number that my mom was coy about, but was described as "well in excess of 6000 dollars". It would appear that my dad, while he wants to help my bro out, doesn't want to pay that much insurance for a car that he labels "a dog". On the Impala this year I paid approx 4000$, the insurance company says this is because of the demographic who drives them and the fact that they are less likely to be in accidents and cheaper to repair. Insurance lady says off the record that to reduce the rate they could get a bigger car made after 2000 but before say 2007 and would pay much closer to what I pay on the Impala.

My dad is taking the recent Cobalt maintenance woes (which continue) as an omen of how it will be in the long run and now isn't so red hot on keeping it. My mom has already decided that she supports the idea of getting rid of it and wants me to help her act as a 'search committee' for a reasonable car to buy in its stead. The insurance company said that almost all larger GM cars (bigger than N-Body) are much cheaper and more in line with what I pay. Of that list obviously the car has to have less than 100k km (60k mi) and be priced around or less than 10k$. We haven't talked to my brother besides dropping subtle hints to my brother to see what kind of car he would want but ultimately he said he doesn't care what he gets to drive as long as it's not 'foreign'.

The choices would pretty much be limited to GM-only as my dad will only consider that, but my mom and I entertain Ford as an option as well. My ultimate selfish wish would be to find one of the post-Northstar headgasket fix G-Body Devilles but with my brother being a new driver maybe it's too much car for him in terms of power (size wise I think it's fine as he did a great deal of his learning to drive on the 07 Impala). I understand that after the engine revisions of 2003 the Deville was almost bulletproof and it's not like I won't be around to make sure the Northstar is maintained properly. He's like me, not a typical teenager who abuses stuff. He has an active interest in cars if not quite as deep as mine, so I don't think I would be worried about him beating the $h! out of anything we buy.

I've made a preliminary list of possibilities but could use some input on it from you guys, maybe on your suggestions on pros/cons.

PROBABLY OUT:

2001-03 Olds Aurora (Reliability Woes)

2000-02 F-Body (he loves these, but insurance wise it defeats the purpose doesn't it?)

2000-04 J-Body (Never Again)

2000-03 Grand AM and Alero with the 3.4L V6

2000-05 Impala with the 3.4L V6

2003-07 Saturn ION (might make my brother kill himself; rattles; bad ergonomics)

2000-05 U-Body (safety)

2005-07 U-Body (reliability)

2000-07 Crown Vic/Marquis (my dad doesn't like them, never has)

CONSIDERATIONS:

2000-05 Bonneville, Naturally Aspirated 3800

2004-07 Grand Prix, Naturally Aspirated 3800

2000-05 LeSabre

2000-05 Park Avenue, Naturally Aspirated 3800

2005-07 Allure, 3800

2003-05 Deville V8 (I actually checked and this is about in line with the non-Supercharged V6s to insure; ditto for the Seville)

2000-05 Regal LS

2000-05 Century

2000-05 Impala, 3800

2000-06 Taurus

2006-07 Fusion

[Satty]

Regal/Century

Between my previous Century experience ('96) and my current winter beater ('91) I can say that these things cannot be killed.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Satty

[vonVeezelsnider]

Yeah the 3100 doesn't get much love, but even though it's underpowered it's still more hardy than the 3400.

[Satty]

The 3100 in the '96 went nearly 300,000 miles before I traded it off. The '91 has a 3300 with almost 250,000 and it still runs about as well as anyone could ask.

[Camino LS6]

Those are brutal insurance rates!

[daves87rs]

Century. Easy to pimp.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Century. Easy to pimp.

Don't scare me like that! I've already told my brother if I find stick-on portholes on whatever he gets I'm going to beat him senseless...

[Justin Bimmer]

How about an Impala? Maybe you can get a fleet rate on your 3 cars for insurance purposes. Just listen to rick off to the left. BE NUMBER 1!

[Paolino]

Regal/Century

Between my previous Century experience ('96) and my current winter beater ('91) I can say that these things cannot be killed.

Honestly, all I do is change the oil every 3,000-5,000 miles. The car, more or less, has been flawless. It's at 193,xxx miles now, just passed inspection today and all I had to do is replace a bulb (front passenger directional was out).

[vonVeezelsnider]

How about an Impala? Maybe you can get a fleet rate on your 3 cars for insurance purposes. Just listen to rick off to the left. BE NUMBER 1!

Tried a volume discount but apparently not eligible... oh well.

[Brougham-Holiday]

Better make sure whatever it is that your brother picks it out on his own. My parents found that out the hard way when they got my brother a nice 01 Regal LS w/ gran touring package and leather. Its mint with 90k miles (had 70k when he got it) and he hates it. Everyday we have to hear how much he hate the Buick because he wants something sporty.

In short: guide him, don't push him....and good luck!

[vonVeezelsnider]

In short: guide him, don't push him....and good luck!

Oh he's strong willed, more so than me. I don't think anyone could convince him to do anything he didn't want in the first place.

He's reacted favorable to the Bonneville, Grand Prix and Park Avenue- he's open to the Seville or Deville but pretty much categorically denies the 1st Gen W-Body Impala- doesn't like the look of them.

[Cory Wolfe]

Insurance rates for the Cobalt are horrible.

[intrigued]

That insurance is out of control. Have you shopped around? I find it hard to belive that someone with a clean driving record can't get something better. I have a huge ding on my driving record (dwi, something I'm not proud of and have never put myself in a situation where this could happen again) and I drive a black 2005 ford mustang GT with a stick and I only pay $2900 and I thought that was high! Where do you live that is cost so much?!

[NOS2006]

Of that list, I'd opt for the Deville or a Regal / Century.

[vonVeezelsnider]

That insurance is out of control. Have you shopped around? I find it hard to belive that someone with a clean driving record can't get something better. I have a huge ding on my driving record (dwi, something I'm not proud of and have never put myself in a situation where this could happen again) and I drive a black 2005 ford mustang GT with a stick and I only pay $2900 and I thought that was high! Where do you live that is cost so much?!

I live in Canada and that has everything to do with it. This has been shopped around both by myself and my parents and in most cases I've been quoted MORE. There's a dichotomy in Alberta between what similar drivers of the different genders pay up to age 25 (I'm pushing twenty now FYI). At age 25 my insurance will drop off substantially to about 650$/year or so but until then whatever I pay, a girl with the same driving record as me would pay half of that figure. Not fair.

Some of it does have to do with the car for some reason. It completely escapes my why the Cobalt/G5 is so expensive. I even got a quote on a new Corvette for insurance (mainly out of curiosity) and the insurance on that for me would be only marginally higher than the 4000$ I pay on the Impala- but still much less than the 5500$ I had been paying on the Cobalt.

Makes no sense but all of the major insurance outfits I've shopped to have been the same. Big V8 Cadillac or even a Corvette still cheaper to insure than a plain as they come Cobalt LT.

[Satty]

Fewer claims on Corvettes and the like compared to the Cobalt.

[FAPTurbo]

VonVee, you guys really need some of that government owned public insurance we got next door.

[vonVeezelsnider]

VonVee, you guys really need some of that government owned public insurance we got next door.

You have no idea how jealous I am of ICBC.

[vonVeezelsnider]

*Bump*

We are going to look at a 2003 Buick LeSabre Limited Celebration Edition tomorrow... Specifically this one:

60'000km/36'000mi, 9900$

Top of the line loaded LeSabre for the model year

-One Owner

-Two Tone Tan/Cocoa leather interior

-Nice Driftwood colored woodgrain

-HUD (!!!!!!!!!)

-Rainsense

-Mirror integrated turn signals

-Stabilitrak

My brother finally got his full license and surprise of surprises insurance was north of 6500$. As a result it would appear the plan from here on out is to find a decent older car with lower insurance rates. This seems like a fitting candidate and my brother is just as taken with it as I am.

Edited September 28, 2010 by vonVeezelsnider

[bobo]

The LeSabre is a great car. Much better than any of the W-bodies, current Impala included. Hope it works out.

[ocnblu]

Those are sweet cars, and hella reliable. If there is one thing in my experience that I'd advise you to look for, it is corrosion around the edges of the aluminum hood (if it is so equipped, take a small magnet to check). Check the perimeter for corrosion bubbling, top side and underside. If it is clean, you are good to go. If not, it's only going to get worse, and should be taken care of ASAP.

[vonVeezelsnider]

It was sold by the time we got there

Good news is we found this one which we will be looking at on Sunday.

2003 Buick Regal LS, $7300, 77000km/48000mi, Light Sandrift Metallic

[daves87rs]

Still a good choice!

[bobo]

Yes, the Regal is a fine car. Unpretentious and competent.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Saw and drove it today... I'm fairly impressed. No Accidents, clean CARFAX. For a seven year old car the leather is cherry, no rips tears or nicks. Everything works but the fog lights are burned out- a couple nicks here and there but in relatively good shape. Current owners cared enough about it to keep it garaged and give it a 3M treatment on the front end. I'm going to get the service history tomorrow and hopefully we'll make a decision. Engine pulls nice and strong, transmission shifts smoothly- you really get the sense that the 90-Degree V6 feels nicer to rev than the 60-Degree V6 in my Impala, just feels more substantial and balanced.

What I can say is that it has:

Tinted O/S Mirrors

Driver's Side Impact Airbag

Sunroof

ComfortTemp Digital Climate Control

Electrochromic Mirror

FE3 Suspension (Significantly firmer than the FE1 Suspension in my Impala- it doesn't float and I'm not sure how I feel about that )

Tire Pressure Monitor

It isn't without a couple of small faults. First of all the ignition lock cylinder doesn't seem to have much resistance in it- when turning the car off it goes right in to ACC very easily. Maybe the ignition cylinder should be replaced. Also the trim panel around the transmission shifter is loose but it seems that it moves around a bit as the car is shifted from Park-->Reverse-->Drive so maybe just years of repetitive stress loosened up the retaining clips. That's probably a DIY fix. Doesn't seem to be much wrong with it.

My only concern is that the foglights both being burnt out could be an electrical problem. Parking, Hi and Lo Beam lights all work fine- are they all on the same circut? *(Directed at anyone who might have a 1997-04 W-Body Wiring Diagram)*

Edited October 4, 2010 by vonVeezelsnider

[SAmadei]

you really get the sense that the 90-Degree V6 feels nicer to rev than the 60-Degree V6 in my Impala, just feels more substantial and balanced.

Oh dear... that's going to get you crucified by the 60 degree guys. ;-) But I know what you're saying... and its why I like the 3800's.

My only concern is that the foglights both being burnt out could be an electrical problem. Parking, Hi and Lo Beam lights all work fine- are they all on the same circut? *(Directed at anyone who might have a 1997-04 W-Body Wiring Diagram)*

I wouldn't worry about that. IIRC (I don't have the '99 GP owners manual around), there is a separate fuse for the fog lamps... its in the fuse box under the hood.. but I don't see any reason that would be a problem... its a simple circuit. While fixing the '99 GP, I also had both fog lamps out... and suspected the same thing... it just turned out to be two burnt out bulbs. Actually, it was one burnt out bulb and one missing bulb. Replaced them and no problem.

Since people feel they need to drive around with their fog lamps on ALL the time, it don't surprise me that they burn out. I wish all manufacturers set the fog lamps to work like on the '04 GP... you have to flick them on EVERYTIME you start the car. I imagine that got jeers from the public, though.

[Paolino]

Regal/Century

Between my previous Century experience ('96) and my current winter beater ('91) I can say that these things cannot be killed.

Over 200,000 miles and still going with ice cold a/c...

[vonVeezelsnider]

...and so it goes. The Regal developed alternator problems right after we made an offer on it. Seems the owner is going to pull it from sale until he can figure out what is wrong with it and how much it will cost to fix. My brother and parents have latched onto the idea of getting a Rendezvous, but it's tricky to find one with the right mileage- So the search continues and now we are truly at the second string. On Tuesday we're going to look at this car:

2003 Oldsmobile Alero GL 3.4L Sedan, 55000km/34000mi

These are also being considered...

2002 Pontiac Aztek, 92000km/57000mi

2003 Buick Century Custom, 55000km/34000mi

[daves87rs]

I'm going to get yelled at for this, but I'd go Aztek. If he's in to different stuff (camping, outdoors, stuff like that), it would work pretty well...

[vonVeezelsnider]

I'm going to get yelled at for this, but I'd go Aztek. If he's in to different stuff (camping, outdoors, stuff like that), it would work pretty well...

He actually has expressed a soft spot for the Aztek (and to a slightly lesser extent the Rendezvous) for some reason (I'm not a huge proponent here but this one is CPO and should be a safe bet). He likes it I think more so because he likes to march to the beat of his own drum than for any campy, outdoorsy reason. He just likes being different and standing out. Seems like it could be a good match. The wild card is the fact that it has significantly higher accumulated mileage than the other cars we are looking at. My dad seems to be set on having something with not much more than 80k on it, but the Rendezvous and Aztek are so much cheaper to insure than even a Regal or Century that it might be okay to risk buying a higher mileage example and leverage the additional savings.

[vonVeezelsnider]

...aaaand it's official

what was wrong with that Regal was just an ignition wiring harness. We're going to be picking it up by the weekend and got a killer deal.

I tell ya- those W-Bodies start to multiply if you leave them alone.

Edited October 14, 2010 by vonVeezelsnider

[daves87rs]

Congrats!