TCC: 2007 Toyota Camry Review

[Variance]

2007 Toyota Camry

Ready to spoil a new round of frugal family buyers — and keep its best-selling title.

by Bengt Halvorson (2006-01-30)

What's probably the most common car onU.S. streets isn't a Chevy or a Ford, but a Toyota. The Camry has been the best-selling car in America for eight of the past nine years. More than ten million Camrys have been sold since 1983, when the model was first introduced, and the majority of those have been sold in the U.S.

With each new Camry much improved, and an even better value it seems, expectations for the new '07 model are high.

There's also the issue that the Camry is just so darned good and efficient at being a comfortable, economical, trouble-free sedan that it has come to be viewed as an appliance, and has gathered descriptions, according to Toyota execs, like "bread-and-butter," and "dad's car." And driving a Camry sort of lends itself to an "I don't care about cars" anonymity. Is the Camry boring, or is it just too darned good?

That was the challenge: how to bring more style - and a little more driving enjoyment - to the Camry without alienating any of Camry's very loyal customer base.

To start, the team behind the latest Camry sought to add much more upscale character to the car. While that was also said to be a goal of the last-generation Camry, it's really worked this time. The Camry's exterior shape emphasizes sharp surface lines and a multi-leveled hood and rear decklid, along with an emphasis on continuity that's echoed inside as well. As expected, the new Camry is highly influenced by the current Avalon, introduced last year, and also inherits various design cues and features from upmarket Lexus models. If you squint, on the outside you can even see a little influence from BMW.

Similar dimensions, reapportioned

While the dimensions aren't markedly different than those of the current Camry it will replace, the proportions have been changed, too, to make it more rakish and flowing, with a more sophisticated headlight and grille treatment, a softer-sloping rear pillar, and the wheels pushed farther out to the corners, increasing wheelbase by about two inches.

Versus the outgoing Camry, these changes help stretch the usable cabin space, too, with improved legroom front and back and a revised driving position.

The instrument panel area boasts an extensive redesign, too - it's set rather low, and also seems to wrap around more effectively, emphasizing horizontal lines that continue to the doors - while the rest of the interior has some more subtle changes in packaging. The center stack and console - with shift knob and storage bin side by side - appear quite wide, separating the driver and passenger areas, and remind us of the Lexus GS. The instrument panel design is also all-new, with the self-lit Optitron gauges that have graced the Lexus lineup for a few years, and controls that generally look more like those in a luxury car than a basic sedan.

Interior space is one of the more important selling points for mid-size sedan buyers, and that's been rethought. All Camrys get a revised layout; the front seats have a new Whiplash Injury Lessening (WIL) design for better neck support in accidents, and the seatbacks have been redesigned. Heated leather seats are available on SE, XLE, and Hybrid models, while new cloth upholstery, treated with Sericin, from silkworm fibers, is offered on XLE. On CE, LE, and Hybrid models, the rear seats are split 60/40 and fold down, while XLE models get a 40/20/40-split reclining rear seat with armrest and pass-through. On all models, the steering wheel now gets tilt and telescope adjustability to better accommodate varied driver sizes.

And to accommodate varied needs, there are also plenty of Camry variations offered - everything from a basic, frugal four-cylinder, manual-transmission version to one with a powerful V-6 and a truly Lexus-like level of luxury features, to a new, much anticipated, Hybrid model for those who are willing to spend a little extra money.

43-mpg Hybrid model

That's the big news. Toyota has installed its Hybrid Synergy Drive in the Camry; it pairs an eco-tuned, Atkinson-cycle (high-compression), 147-hp version of the 2.4-liter four-cylinder gasoline engine with a 105-kW electric motor. The motor can deliver up to 203 lb-ft of instantaneous torque, while the combined powertrain makes 192 hp.

Camry Hybrids are packaged much the same way as the other models - with similar interior and trunk space. That alone is evidence of there's evidence of a good design, as engineers had to find places for bulky elements like the hybrid transaxle, inverter, and battery.

Hybrids also get a slightly different appearance, including blue-tinted headlight reflectors, LED taillamps, and a matte-chrome grille in front that flows into the fascia.

The combined front-wheel-drive powertrain delivers up to 192 hp. The Hybrid carries a PZEV emissions rating. EPA fuel economy for the Camry Hybrid will be 43 city, 37 highway, which makes for a range of around 700 miles from its 17.1-gallon fuel tank. And it drives much like a standard Camry, which we'll get to in more detail just below.

As for the Camry's standard powertrain, there's no big surprise - it's a 158-hp, 2.4-liter in-line DOHC four that's a revision of the existing base engine, and it should boast especially low maintenance costs. The four-cylinder gets various design improvements. A new 3.5-liter DOHC V-6 replaces the 3.3-liter V-6 as optional, and makes 268 hp and 248 lb-ft of torque, significantly more than the 3.3. The 3.5 is basically the same engine as is offered in the Avalon (and also now offered in the RAV4), with dual variable valve timing, plus stepless cooling fan for reduced overall noise, and an active, fluid-filled engine mount system that is tuned to be most effective at idle speed. In addition, the alternator uses an acoustically decoupled pulley to help smooth out spikes as accessories cycle on.

The V-6 is mated to an all-new six-speed automatic transmission, while the four-cylinder goes with either a five-speed automatic or a five-speed manual. According to Toyota officials, the five-speed automatic is the same transmission as offered with the outgoing Camry V-6, while the all-new six-speed boasts a 20-percent reduction in number of parts versus the five-speed. Shifting for the six-speed is done through a gated shifter that's much like what's been offered on Lexus products - you can move the knob over to an 'S' position and then simply go up or down a gear at a time.

Comfy ride with better handling

Toyota engineers thoroughly revised the steering and suspension, aiming to keep the Camry's ride comfort while improving handling. The steering is now all-electric, with true variable assist, and it's tuned to behave quite differently with each powertrain arrangement. The front suspension uses a subframe, for the strut and control arm arrangement, and in back there are struts and a multi-link setup, with a hollow stabilizer bar.

If you don't have your mind made up as to which Camry you want, you might have to take a few test drives, as there's never been such a range in feel between the base four-cylinder car and the top-line V-6 luxury XLE and sporty SE. There was a very discernable difference suspension-wise between the four-cylinder LE, the V-6 XLE, and the V-6 SE we drove. Though the weight between the engines is quite close, there are differences in the way that the steering and suspension are tuned, we were told.

The standard four-cylinder engine has plenty of power for most situations, and even enough low-end torque for quick takeoffs from a standing start, as long as you don't have a full load. Despite its large displacement for a four-cylinder, it's also one of the most refined fours offered on any vehicle, and if you're puttering along with traffic with the sound system cranked you might have trouble telling the difference from the six.

If you appreciate sports-car power in a family sedan, the V-6 is the ticket (or, possibly, the way to a ticket). It has far more usable power than the engine is replaces, and pushes the Camry into a new category of performance. Toyota claims a 0-60 time of about seven seconds (slightly slower than the RAV4 with the same engine), but it feels considerably faster. The six-speed automatic functions flawlessly, and isn't flustered by the multi-gear, partial throttle downshifts that cause some competitors to temporarily cough up their throttle map (i.e., hesitate then surge). The new V-6 is extremely refined, with an almost indistinguishable idle, and under moderate throttle revs almost silently through the gears like a vehicle with the Lexus badge. Stomp your right foot down, and you'll hear just a little bit of raspy exhaust tone.

In the Hybrid model, Toyota opted to tune the Camry's system more for economy than all-out performance (you can expect more of a performance emphasis from Lexus models), as most Camry buyers tend toward the practical and frugal side of the car-buying spectrum. You can expect decent performance, though; the Camry hybrid isn't particularly sprightly off the line, but it does offer great passing power - better than the four, though not quite as athletic as the six - once the gasoline engine revs up with the motor in full assist. In low-speed stop-and-go driving, Hybrid drivers stand to gain the most, as the Camry can creep along with the electric motor only for a considerable time.

And for those all-important numbers, the Camry's hybrid powertrain offers 0-60 in about 9.4 seconds. Expect the four-cylinder to be around the ten-second mark while the V-6 will slot in at around seven seconds (slightly higher than the new RAV4 with the same engine)

Like we said, you might notice a pretty significant difference in the way Camrys drive with the three powertrains. It's not surprising that we found the basic four-cylinder Camry and the sporty SE V-6 to be the most balanced when flogged along a curvy road, with the XLE to be a little less versed for fast driving. The Camry Hybrid, burdened by about 400 pounds of extra mass, doesn't exactly feel tossable, but it's far from clumsy.

One bodystyle, wide range of equipment

As we hinted to above, the '07 Camry will be offered with a wide range of equipment, in base CE, LE, sporty SE, or luxurious XLE trims. The more seriously sporty SE grade now gets stiffer springs and dampers, a solid anti-roll bar, and stabilizing braces underhood and behind the rear seatback, along with an aerodynamic package and other performance cues. Additionally, a stabilizing brace is added to the underfloor, and a V-brace behind the rear seatback (which doesn't fold down on SE).

The top-of-the-line XLE emphasizes Lexus-like interior appointments and features, including dual-zone climate control with ionizer and filter, and upholstery treated with silk extract. A new-generation navigation system will be optional, as will both a smart-key system and a remote engine starter will be available. Standard features on the XLE will include a moonroof, real woodgrain, and reclining rear seats. There's also an in-dash multi-function trip computer display on XLE and Hybrid models.

All Camrys now get MP3 compatibility and digital sound processing, along with the Auto Sound Levelizer, plus standard auxiliary input jacks for portable audio. The standard AM/FM/CD has six speakers and 160 watts and has very respectable sound, while the top system is an eight-speaker, 440-watt JBL Premium system with four-CD in-dash changer and Bluetooth telephony. There's also a new-generation voice-activated navigation system available, integrated with the top sound system. Again depending on the trim level, there are steering wheel controls for some of the audio and telephony functions.

A Smart Key system is now also available on the Camry - standard on Hybrids and available on XLEs - allowing hands-free unlocking and keyless starting from inside the vehicle. A remote engine starter is optional and functions with the Smart Key system.

VSC stability control is available on all Camrys, while Hybrid models get a standard integrated VDIM system, the automaker's more proactive, integrated stability control system. With a setup similar to that in the Highlander Hybrid, VDIM interlaces with the electric power steering and most of the electronic aids, including the ABS and standard stability control, to anticipate a potential loss of control and allow smooth adjustments - such as changing the steering boost - to help regain control.

ABS and Brake Assist will be standard on all models, as will seat-mounted side airbags, rear side airbags, side-curtain bags, and a driver-side knee airbag.

Frugal as ever

But fuel economy probably remains the top reason for wanting the hybrid, if not being able to boast to the neighbors. It carries stellar EPA ratings of 43 city, 36 highway. While we know that hybrid models aren't quite turning out their rated mileage in the real world, we were quite impressed with the trip-computer average we saw on our Camry Hybrid test car; in the mixed, mostly stop-and-go driving loop that Toyota had set up for us, the test car was averaging about 32 mpg - not bad at all for a bunch of hot-footed journalists trying to feel out the system.

Fuel economy will be a strength on the other Camry models, too, with four cylinder models offering up to 25 city, 34 highway, and V-6s getting 22 city, 31 highway.

With the Camry so overwhelmingly competent, it's hard to find faults even when you go looking for them. There was one that did stand out - the seats, which aren't at all comfortable for tall, lanky drivers like this one. Taller folks will likely find the lower seat cushions just too short, and the backrests are noticeable devoid of mid-back support. Those in that same category might find sunroof-equipped cars to be short on headroom, too, so make sure you try with the seat properly adjusted before you buy.

There are few practical downsides to getting a Camry. But give it a year or two, and they'll be everywhere. As it's likely to continue its best-selling status, there are few other models you can buy that assure more anonymity. Also, while the Camry's styling can be considered attractive by almost anyone, it's hardly bold. There might be more attention to detail up close, from the other end of the parking lot it still looks like a Camry.

From a purely practical perspective the new Camry doesn't feel a lot larger or more comfortable than the already-overachieving Camry that it replaces. But especially with the more expensive versions, it succeeds to bring in a little more emotion, with a little dash of Lexus style - enough such that people who might not have considered a Camry before will take a look.

Even more surprising is that the hybrid likely won't be the priciest Camry in the lineup - though we could see initial demand at dealerships driving premiums through the roof. Initial marketing plans call for the Hybrid to slot in below a loaded V-6, appealing to customers who value the technology of the Hybrid system more than the additional luxury or power. Look for all Camrys to post a modest price increase across the board, though.

The new Camry looks to be another home run for Toyota . It's not exciting, but it goes above and beyond what the vast majority of car buyers need, with more luxury than most of them will actually be looking for.

And it raises the bar for the competition, once again.

2007 Toyota Camry

Base Price: Estimated range $19,500-$27,000

Engine: 2.4-liter in-line four, 158 hp/161 lb-ft; 3.5-liter V-6, 268 hp/248 lb-ft; 2.4-liter in-line four and electric motor, 192 hp combined

Drivetrain: Five- or six-speed automatic, five-speed manual, or CVT (hybrid); front-wheel drive

Length x width x height: 189.2 x 71.7 x 57.5 in

Wheelbase: 109.3 in

Curb weight: 3285-3637 lb

EPA (city/hwy) mpg: 25/34 (I-4 manual); 24/33 (I-4 auto); 22/31 (V-6 automatic); 43/37 (hybrid)

Safety equipment: Anti-lock brakes, Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD), vehicle stability control (VSC), front seat-mounted side airbags, front and rear side-curtain airbags, driver knee airbag

Major standard equipment: Air conditioning, power windows/locks, tilt/telescope steering, cruise control, AM/FM/CD/MP3 sound system w/mini-jack input

Warranty: Three years/36,000 miles comprehensive; five years/60,000 miles powertrain

Link: http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehicle_Re...S180.A9947.html

[Flybrian]

Its still a rather ugly looking car and downright ungainly in sport form pictured with its crappy ground effects. The days of the decent-looking Camry have long since passed.

[!!!TED!!!]

The top-of-the-line XLE emphasizes Lexus-like interior appointments...

O RLY?

I couldnt believe it in Detroit (thats my hand).

You try it at your local car show.

[Flybrian]

Ted, Ted, Ted...forshame. You should know that's part of Toyota's "Take The Quality With You" program.

[Sal Collaziano]

The things that stand out to me are:

Smart key and Standard features on the XLE which include a moonroof, real woodgrain, and reclining rear seats.

Reclining rear seats... Smart key is very nice as well..

I agree that the Sport model of the Camry looks ridiculous.. But the days of a decent-looking Camry are certainly not gone. That's silly.

It's much better to be unbiased, Flybrian. You get more credibility that way. To say this is not a "decent" looking car - I don't know.. Is just wrong. You can not like it.. That's fine.. I'm a GM fanatic - I love Cadillacs first and foremost. But I can admit when something else is better - and hope things change...

Edited January 30, 2006 by Sal Collaziano

[Matt276]

It's not exciting, that's what it says.

[z28luvr01]

I'm impressed with the 192hp out of the 4cyl hybrid. But that's it.

[Flybrian]

In this case, I'm not biased. I admit the car has excellent features and aspects that are extrodinarily desireable (the hybrid, for one), but I think the design lack alot.

I remember a time when the Camry carried itself with some sort of grace and presence. The 1992 model was the pinnacle of this, standing in stark contrast to most of its rivals, especially those from Japan. The 1997 redesign embodied that class as well. The 2002? I don't know what that car was about. Gangly, too narrow, too tall, awkward cues, and a laugable interior with a center console that didn't even line up with the dash. I was frankly amazed Camries continued to outsell the then-new Accord until I started seeing them show up in rental pools.

The '07 improves drastically from the pits of the '02, but I can't say I find the design attractive at all. Mind you, I appreciate the detailing inside and out, but based on the exterior design, 'decent' would be the greatest compliment I could extend. For one, it keeps its predecessor's odd C-pillar/rear quarter glass treatment for reasons unknown, especially since this car is alot more rounded than the last.

My greatest issue is the front end, which is bulbous and from what I've heard from Venseattle who saw it in person at Portland is very bulky and high off the ground. Toyota's website mentions something about increased pedestrian impact protection, so I assume this design meets EUROCAP safety regs for such. This disappoints me, especially in the facet that the area around the grille emblem looks like a ripe pimple. The cutline is also horrid above the grille.

But the most disappointing element of the design overall is that it borrows from the Avalon, which is probably the least-attractive large car on the market today. You can see it in the saggy rear bumper, the oft-cribbed decklid shape, and the utterly pointless angular protrusion around the front end, something also seen on the Avalon.

I don't like the car predominately because of these styling issues and yet I've always admitted this car would sell like nobody's business because I realize this segement doesn't care about sleek looks or the like - it just wants a car. And the '07 delivers that plain car with alot of good content. You'll just never sell me one if for no other reason than it looks bad in my eyes. Period.

One question I do seriously ask is - with this and the ES - who in their right mind would buy an Avalon?

[sciguy_0504]

GM better deliver a Malibu that is so hot it has flames coming out of its tailpipe.

Nice one, Ted. How long did it take to pull that off? Ohhh...the gearshift is missing, too!

[regfootball]

TED, O TED, FIGHTING OFF DANGER! (OR PLASTIC TRIM)

I WANNA BE A CAMRY

[!!!TED!!!]

Nice one, Ted.  How long did it take to pull that off?  Ohhh...the gearshift is missing, too!

The trim popped right off. The shifter is unscrewed as with most autoshow cars.

I was holding off posting this (actually, Polish_Kris didnt even want me to have this picture).

The new Camry is a decent car, but it is not earth shattering at all. Im going to have to whole heartedly agree with Fly's above comments. This car is better than the 02-06, but its more an evolution of the 97-01.

There are alot of places on the interior that look cobbled together, like the rear door grips, which are made of two sandwiched pieces of plastic. Pull hard on those, and they flex. The previous cars had a single solid piece.

The look of the dash is like a rework of the 97-01, with that bluish hue worked in on the lower models, making it look IKEA stylish (good or bad thing, you decide).

The exterior also takes cue from the 97-01, but manages to look pretty gross. Its pudgy, and in the sport trim, bloated.

There were plenty of folks at NAIAS fawning over these cars, and Im not surprised if Toyota sells every one they make. But its not as great as its made out to be.

[ToniCipriani]

I'm impressed with the 192hp out of the 4cyl hybrid. But that's it.

Are they hybridcharging again?

[VenSeattle]

Yes, I saw the new Camry at the Portland Autoshow this past weekend. The exterior looks like a Mazda6 front and Hyundai-ish rear. I thought it looked familiar, but when I made it to the Mazda display I instantly remembered the Camry nose. The front is flat and tall, like Flybrian mentioned. The grille is the front bumper.

The interior styling is nice, much better when compared to the last generation... but as it's been mentioned, the materials aren't as great as you'd think. It only photographs well. Some mental notes that I recall:

1) The Camry dash is two-toned, with the lighter, lower part being all hard plastic.

2) Rat-fur headliner just like the Avalon.

3) Just like on the Avalon, console doors don't appear to "fit" just right around the corners.

4) Only the hybrid has LED taillights; rest of the Camrys (including the Avalon) have traditionally illuminated tail lamps. They're both already a step behind the current Accord in this regard.

5) Trunk hinges still protrude into the trunk.

6) The Camry Hybrid's trunk looks very tiny (It appears the back seat can't fold either). Good luck on road trips or even moderate shopping.

Lexus vehicles have a discernable level of quality not present in either Camry or Avalon. The new Camry isn’t bad, but there is now a transparent class distinction between the “Toyota” brand vehicles & the “Lexus” brand vehicles.

[Paolino]

I couldnt believe it in Detroit (thats my hand).

I recognized your hand--looked just like the other hand from your old avatar holding up the drink in front of your face

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Why doesn't that review surprise me? Typical Toyota brown nosing from the press.

Wake up. The car is not that great. Sure, it's not a bad car, I'll admit. But the exterior design has the taste of a black jellybean. I sware, with every new Toyota debut, the designs look more like melted Buick Regals.

The interior is nice, granted, but still yet I don't think the quality is all that it's cracked up to be when you can pull off the damn shift lever in your hand.

[pow]

Most of Toyota's new cars seem cheaply put together, the Avalon and RAV4 included. I hate how mainstream manufacturers are making progress with technology (more power, more comfort, more ammentities, etc.), but ignoring quality (probably leaving it to their upmarket brands).

[Croc]

I was holding off posting this (actually, Polish_Kris didnt even want me to have this picture).

Hmmmm...wonder why THAT might have been

[Paolino]

So, Ted, gotta know... how'd the plastic feel in your hands? Was it soft? High Quality? I wonder if this is how many critics review Japanese cars' plastics... rip a piece off and then feel it with their bare hands.

[Sal Collaziano]

But the most disappointing element of the design overall is that it borrows from the Avalon, which is probably the least-attractive large car on the market today. You can see it in the saggy rear bumper, the oft-cribbed decklid shape, and the utterly pointless angular protrusion around the front end, something also seen on the Avalon.

One question I do seriously ask is - with this and the ES - who in their right mind would buy an Avalon?

Well, I don't know what it is with me but I like the looks of the Avalon. Every time I see one one the street, I'm somewhat impressed. I grew up when Toyotas were some of the ugliest cars on the road. Maybe that's why. Maybe I'm too old to see things from your prospective...

What bothers me is how ALL trims of the Avalon look great to me - but only one trim of the Lucerne looks great to me - the CSX.

The Camry and the Avalon.. Yes, they're really close now. Like the CTS and the STS.. I suppose someone who wants as much room as possible while not spending too much - will opt for the Avalon. Have the extra cash? Go for the Lexus ES350. Really low on cash? Go for the Camry - either way, you won't be disappointed...

[turbo200]

What bothers me is how ALL trims of the Avalon look great to me - but only one trim of the Lucerne looks great to me - the CSX.

One of the worst phenomonons going on at GM right now. G6 terrible in base form [sorry Toni] compared to upper levels, Lacrosse, Lucerne, SRX. GM loves to dumb down the design of thier cars with crappy wheels [Malibu and Impala are showing signs of improvements] and crappy trim.

[Sal Collaziano]

Great review! Thank you.. And I totally agree about your last paragraph...

Yes, I saw the new Camry at the Portland Autoshow this past weekend. The exterior looks like a Mazda6 front and Hyundai-ish rear. I thought it looked familiar, but when I made it to the Mazda display I instantly remembered the Camry nose. The front is flat and tall, like Flybrian mentioned. The grille is the front bumper.

The interior styling is nice, much better when compared to the last generation... but as it's been mentioned, the materials aren't as great as you'd think. It only photographs well. Some mental notes that I recall:

1) The Camry dash is two-toned, with the lighter, lower part being all hard plastic.

2) Rat-fur headliner just like the Avalon.

3) Just like on the Avalon, console doors don't appear to "fit" just right around the corners. 

4) Only the hybrid has LED taillights; rest of the Camrys (including the Avalon) have traditionally illuminated tail lamps. They're both already a step behind the current Accord in this regard.

5) Trunk hinges still protrude into the trunk.

6) The Camry Hybrid's trunk looks very tiny (It appears the back seat can't fold either). Good luck on road trips or even moderate shopping.

Lexus vehicles have a discernable level of quality not present in either Camry or Avalon. The new Camry isn’t bad, but there is now a transparent class distinction between the “Toyota” brand vehicles & the “Lexus” brand vehicles.

[carman21]

The car is shamelessly ugly. I'm sure the car is fine but, the whole front end badly needs some revamps. That front grill turns me off the Camry. The Camry is a car that despite its hurting on GM I once could live with If I bought it. This is the least attractive Camry since the 1st & 2nd gen.

Edited January 30, 2006 by carman21

[Flybrian]

As far as some of Ven's observations, things like the mouse-fur headliner and trunk hinges are something GM cars get ragged on constantly without abatement, yet how come Toyota can get away with it?

I remember a very alarming blurb in Consumer Reports reading "WARNING Buick LeSabre and Pontiac Bonneville have hinged decklids which may damage contents in the trunk" or something to that affect. I was so distraught, I almost traded our Pontiac in for an Avalon until I discovered - oh - it has them, too. Furthermore, the hinges on both those Toyotas are completely unprotected while the hinges in GM fullsizers vary by design, but either disappear into an enclosed well (DeVille) or have low-intrusion goosenecks and rubber padding (Bonneville/LeSabre) to minimize any possible damage.

[sciguy_0504]

I agree, the mouse fur headliners have got to go. They reek of cost cutting and cheapness. If anything touches the roof it leaves a noticeable mark, even your finger. All cars should have gas struts for the trunk, too.

Ven, if I am correct, the Accord is the only midsize car with LCD taillights. Sure they look cool but does it really matter? Do normal people know what they are? Probably not but it would improve the value and feel of the new Camry. Also, the rear seatbacks on the SE cannot fold down due to bracing so it is not just the hybrid.

[Flybrian]

Ven, if I am correct, the Accord is the only midsize car with LCD taillights.

Mercury Montego (and Milan?) and Hyundai Azera

[sciguy_0504]

Mercury Montego (and Milan?) and Hyundai Azera

The Milan has them (Montego does, too, but it's a large car) but Hyundai's website says nothing about LCDs and I cannot tell from the pictures.

[Flybrian]

The Milan has them (Montego does, too, but it's a large car) but Hyundai's website says nothing about LCDs and I cannot tell from the pictures.

I can say for a fact the Azera has LED tails. Saw one a few days ago at CostCo.

[regfootball]

I can say for a fact the Azera has LED tails. Saw one a few days ago at CostCo.

oh, did costco have a lot of them in stock?

[siegen]

Toyota knows that blandness is the key to appealing to the largest possible consumer base. This, however, takes it one step beyond bland, to a word that is not yet in the dictionary. I imagine someone will make a word to properly describe the blandness of the new Camry, they probably have scholars working on it right now.

[FAPTurbo]

Toyota knows that blandness is the key to appealing to the largest possible consumer base. This, however, takes it one step beyond bland, to a word that is not yet in the dictionary. I imagine someone will make a word to properly describe the blandness of the new Camry, they probably have scholars working on it right now.

Chances are, your local soft rock station will probably have a word for it... they deal with bland inoffensive crap all day.

[VenSeattle]

The Milan has them (Montego does, too, but it's a large car) but Hyundai's website says nothing about LCDs and I cannot tell from the pictures.

The Montego & Azera compete with the Avalon. Both have LEDs. Avalon doesn't. Both are less expensive than the Avalon.

The Milan & Accord compete with the Camry. Once again, both have LEDs. Camry doesn't.

Speaking of the Azera and LED taillights:

Edited January 31, 2006 by VenSeattle

[Flybrian]

oh, did costco have a lot of them in stock?

Heh yeah. There was a 12-pack for like $50,000. No thanks.

[sciguy_0504]

I can say for a fact the Azera has LED tails. Saw one a few days ago at CostCo.

Alright.

Edit: Other than Caddys, what GMs have LEDs?

Edited January 31, 2006 by sciguy_0504

[El Scorcho]

The 900s, as far as I can remember.

[Paolino]

Ven, if I am correct, the Accord is the only midsize car with LCD taillights.  Sure they look cool but does it really matter?  Do normal people know what they are?  Probably not but it would improve the value and feel of the new Camry.  Also, the rear seatbacks on the SE cannot fold down due to bracing so it is not just the hybrid.

Sci, LED (Light Emitting Diode) taillamps have been declared brighter and do illuminate a fraction of a second faster than regular bulbs, aside from lasting a LOT longer than incandescents. Many places are starting to boast their cars having these. It's considered "safer".

[Sal Collaziano]

Sci, LED (Light Emitting Diode) taillamps have been declared brighter and do illuminate a fraction of a second faster than regular bulbs, aside from lasting a LOT longer than incandescents.  Many places are starting to boast their cars having these.  It's considered "safer".

I was just going to say that.. I believe the 1997 Lincoln Mark VIII was the first car to have them. They DO illuminate quicker - which can make a difference in avoiding accidents...

So is look like Toyota made a mistake by not having LEDs.. I think the "mousehair" headliner is just another one of those things that allows the car to be inexpensive.. While the Camry is certainly lacking in some areas (no LED, cheap headliner, etcetera), it's way ahead in others.. Give and take...

Edited January 31, 2006 by Sal Collaziano

[Flybrian]

While the Camry is certainly lacking in some areas (no LED, cheap headliner, etcetera), it's way ahead in others.. Give and take...

And the same can be said about many current domestic products, yet Toyota gets the free pass on this. I'll make a remark about load-leveling, something that the Avalon in its third generation still lacks. Domestic fullsizers have had this feature for decades.

This is something I don't understand as they're constantly made out to be the obvious front-runner when the reality what's best depends on the compromises you're willing to make.

[ponchoman49]

And the same can be said about many current domestic products, yet Toyota gets the free pass on this. I'll make a remark about load-leveling, something that the Avalon in its third generation still lacks. Domestic fullsizers have had this feature for decades.

This is something I don't understand as they're constantly made out to be the obvious front-runner when the reality what's best depends on the compromises you're willing to make.

Lets not forget the Avalons huge, massive 14.4 cu. ft. trunk that some compacts outclass, intrusive hinges, lack of door protection moldings for parking lot dings and gaudy overly light woodgrain and silver plastic plus that cornball door over the controls.

[Sal Collaziano]

And the same can be said about many current domestic products, yet Toyota gets the free pass on this. I'll make a remark about load-leveling, something that the Avalon in its third generation still lacks. Domestic fullsizers have had this feature for decades.

This is something I don't understand as they're constantly made out to be the obvious front-runner when the reality what's best depends on the compromises you're willing to make.

I don't know. Is load-leveling really that important? I'm not saying it's not.. Maybe I'm just so used to it now.. I'm sure you could name better things...

[Flybrian]

I don't know. Is load-leveling really that important? I'm not saying it's not.. Maybe I'm just so used to it now.. I'm sure you could name better things...

That's it right there - you're used to it because (I'm assuming) cars you drive have it. Its significant as it keeps the headlamps level even with a loaded trunk and/or passengers in the back. A car also has a bit more class when its driving at an even keel and not dragging its butt along like a dog in heat. I would argue its 'better' than the headliner material. As long as its of quality, who cares? I typically don't rest my hand or head on the actual roof of the car.

Carpet mats are a $199 option? $600 for Roadside Assistance? That's something domestics have offered on every car for as long as I can remember. Even if you never use it, its a nice piece of mind.

Ponchoman brings up another point in the Avalon's trunk space, a paltry 14.4 cu.ft. For a car its size, that's flat-out unacceptable. What excuse does it havehave? Compare against segment leaders:

2006 Avalon - 14.4 cu.ft.

Chrysler 300 - 15.6 cu.ft.

Buick Lucerne - 17.0 cu.ft.

Chevy Impala - 18.6 cu.ft.

Mercury Montego - 21.2 cu.ft.

And these...

Toyota Corolla - 13.5 cu.ft.

Chevy Cobalt coupe - 13.9 cu.ft.

Honda Civic sedan - 14.0 cu.ft.

2006 Avalon - 14.4 cu.ft.

Saturn ION - 14.7 cu.ft.

Mazda6 - 15.2 cu.ft.

Chevy Malibu - 15.4 cu.ft.

('05) Camry - 16.7 cu.ft.

[sciguy_0504]

$50,000 the next-gen Malibu does not have LEDs or load leveling.

[Flybrian]

$50,000 the next-gen Malibu does not have LEDs or load leveling.

I'll bet money (how 'bout $5.00?) the next Malibu has LED tails. The load-leveling is a product of the Avalon discussion.

[VenSeattle]

$50,000 the next-gen Malibu does not have LEDs or load leveling.

Okay... you first try to dismiss the Camry not having LEDs as being "not noticeable" or "not important" (even though they're just as much a vehicle image builder as HID headlamps) and now you're trying to twist it into a bash against GM. Several Camry competitors don't have LED tail lamps. That's not the point. Toyota is suppose to be the "Leader"... They aren't suppose to be waiting for everyone else to get it before they offer it (a generalization that's always associated with US Domestics).

Honda, Ford, & even Hyundai have all beaten Toyota to this.

As for GM products (excluding Cadillac), Saturn's Aura is suppose to have LED tail lamps along with the 6-sp auto when it starts production this summer.

[Angry Dad]

Did anybody mention that the new Camry is ugly?

Well anybody that isn't getting paid to write about it is.

[sciguy_0504]

Okay... you first try to dismiss the Camry not having LEDs as being "not noticeable" or "not important" (even though they're just as much a vehicle image builder as HID headlamps) and now you're trying to twist it into a bash against GM. Several Camry competitors don't have LED tail lamps. That's not the point. Toyota is suppose to be the "Leader"... They aren't suppose to be waiting for everyone else to get it before they offer it (a generalization that's always associated with US Domestics).

Honda, Ford, & even Hyundai have all beaten Toyota to this.

As for GM products (excluding Cadillac), Saturn's Aura is suppose to have LED tail lamps along with the 6-sp auto when it starts production this summer.

I could care less about LEDs on whatever non-luxury car is out there. I am not doubting they are an image builder but they are not important. Having side airbags standard is important, LEDs are not. I am not trying to twist it against GM, I am trying to make a point. Why make a big deal about a Camry not having LEDs when, other than Cadillac, no current GM vehicle offers them? The same with the Avalon. The only Camry competitor that has them is the Accord. The Fusion does not have them. The Sonata does not have them. The Azera does have them but it does not compete with the Camry. Do you believe the average Avalon buyer is going to care if a Hyundai has them? LEDs or not, the Avalon is a much better vehicle than the Assera and you know it.

If having LEDs solely makes a manufacturer a "leader" than should not Ford, and Lincoln for that matter, still be leaders?

[Cory Wolfe]

I could care less about LEDs on whatever non-luxury car is out there.  I am not doubting they are an image builder but they are not important.  Having side airbags standard is important, LEDs are not. Yes, but LEDs shine brighter, and are more efficient. Safer. Not important? I am not trying to twist it against GM, I am trying to make a point.  Why make a big deal about a Camry not having LEDs when, other than Cadillac, no current GM vehicle offers them? Yeah, but you said the next gen Malibu. Hint, hint.  The same with the Avalon.  The only Camry competitor that has them is the Accord.  The Fusion does not have them.  The Sonata does not have them.  The Azera does have them but it does not compete with the Camry.  Do you believe the average Avalon buyer is going to care if a Hyundai has them?  LEDs or not, the Avalon is a much better vehicle than the Assera and you know it. So... that's why, given the choice, I'd take the Azera over the Avalon? (hey, I'm only making a point. It looks 100% better and the reviews have all been good. It's isn't better than an Avalon, but it's close enough to where styling comes into play and totally dominates it. It's not my fault the Avalon is ugly) Don't doubt the Koreans. They are closing in on Japan quickly. Some would say they've surpassed the domestics already.

If having LEDs solely makes a manufacturer a "leader" than should not Ford, and Lincoln for that matter, still be leaders? I think you completely missed his point, My. Sciguy in a box (literally).

Edited February 1, 2006 by blackviper8891

[sciguy_0504]

Then, I am missing the point but I am not the only one missing points around here.

[MatizNiels]

LED taillights are not that important. They often end up with weird bee-cube holed designs. Even the little Volkswagen Polo has them!

[regfootball]

Did anybody mention that the new Camry is ugly?

Well anybody that isn't getting paid to write about it is.

IT'S UGLY!

THERE! I SAID IT AGAIN!

I CAN'T HOLD BACK!

[ltm_awake]

I believe the 1997 lincoln mark VII used a neon bar, not a LED, though it was used for safety in that it lit up faster (said to add something like 30 or more feet of stopping room on average based on average reaction times and something like a 55 mph emergency stop)

that and it looks damned cool.