2007 Lexus ES350 - First Pics.

[Bluesman]

Thanks to GSrdWOW from ClubLexus....

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread...91&page=1&pp=15

[Innotech]

its a Camry...

[Northstar]

You can't tell a whole lot from that one (dark) picture, but it reminds me more of the RL than the Camry. The interior looks nice, but again, you can't tell much from that tiny pic.

[Robert Hall]

It will still be a FWDer based on the Avalon, though, right?

[CSpec]

Well, going by one picture it looks a lot better than the Camry.

[Snate]

Well, going by one picture it looks a lot better than the Camry.

Pretty much anything does

[Bluesman]

It will still be a FWDer based on the Avalon, though, right?

It's FWD based on the MC platform, which is the same as the Camry.

[toyoguy]

275hp 6spd auto, I'd love to see the faces of 330i owners when they get their asses handed to them buy a Camry/ES350

[Northstar]

275hp 6spd auto, I'd love to see the faces of 330i owners when they get their asses handed to them buy a Camry/ES350

20hp isn't going to be enough to offset the added weight of the ES350.

The 330i will beat it in a straight line and the ES350 will be spinning out trying to stay with the 330i in the corners. Oh, and the 330i will actually be engaging to drive.

[Robert Hall]

20hp isn't going to be enough to offset the added weight of the ES350.

The 330i will beat it in a straight line and the ES350 will be spinning out trying to stay with the 330i in the corners. Oh, and the 330i will actually be engaging to drive.

Yes....nose-heavy FWDers are no match for a balanced RWD on a winding road..that's why I'm glad BMW has stayed on the true path to driving enlightenment..

[toyoguy]

umm the 330i isn't a lightcar. and actually isn't faster than a heavy ass Avalon

6A 330i

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...21/pageId=68302

14.7@96 mph

6MT 330i

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...21/pageId=68302

14.7@96 mph

http://e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3802

14.8@97

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...?showtopic=4540

14.5@97

Avalon

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?ar...5&page_number=8

14.6 @ 99 mph

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...47/pageId=63250

15.4@96

so basically a lighter 6spd auto Camry will outmuscle a 330i

Edited January 29, 2006 by toyoguy

[Robert Hall]

umm the 330i isn't a lightcar.  and actually isn't faster than a heavy ass Avalon

so basically a lighter 6spd auto Camry will outmuscle a 330i

Quarter-mile numbers don't count for much..what really matters is how the car feels to the driver and handles on a winding road.

[Sixty8panther]

its a Camry...

Exactly. These guys need to get out more. Hulk Hogan's website called, it wants its 346 exclamation points back!

   ClubLexus Forums > Lexus Model Forums > ES 330/300 Models 

Official Picture Of The New Es!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! 

IF they're this excited about the ES I wonder if they'd bust a nut on the monitor if they saw the new Supra-ish sports car that's comming.

Hey Toyoguy:

Rmember when all you import guys had flagships that could not accelerate better than a V6 Beretta? Your chatchphrase used to always be: "there's more to a sporty car than straight line acceleration" yeah, true.

A FWD Camry is still a Camry, even by any other name. If you think entusiasts are going to buy Lexus ES then I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

Edited January 29, 2006 by Sixty8panther

[Robert Hall]

Exactly. These guys need to get out more. Hulk Hogan's website called, it wants its 346 exclamation points back! 

IF they're this excited about the ES I wonder if they'd bust a nut on the monitor if they saw the new Supra-ish sports car that's comming.

Yeah...I just don't see anything about the ES to get excited about...it's a pleasant, comfortable commuter car, nothing special. Now the GS I really like. The IS is interesting, but the lack of a manual in the 350 version is a turn-off.

Edited January 29, 2006 by moltar

[toyoguy]

Quarter-mile numbers don't count for much..what really matters is how the car feels to the driver and handles on a winding road.

I stated that I'd love to see the face of a 330i owner when a V6 Camry hands him his ass.

Did it ever occur to you that 50yr old Camry/ES buyers don't want to feel the road?

[Robert Hall]

I stated that I'd love to see the face of a 330i owner when a V6 Camry hands him his ass. 

Did it ever occur to you that 50yr old Camry/ES buyers don't want to feel the road?

The point is a 3-series is all about feeling the road..it's stupid to compare the ES to a 330..different cars for different purposes.

I don't care about 50 yr old Camry/ES buyers, the Camry and ES buyers I know are all 25-35... (a 30 yr old coworker bought an ES a few months ago).

[Sixty8panther]

Did it ever occur to you that 50yr old Camry/ES buyers don't want to feel the road?

True, they also probably will not be participating wiht too many stoplight dragraces wiht 28 year old kids in BMWs. Plenty of turbocharged Bentleys can kick ass on the dragstip but they often never get driven past 30% throttle.

[Northstar]

I stated that I'd love to see the face of a 330i owner when a V6 Camry hands him his ass. 

Did it ever occur to you that 50yr old Camry/ES buyers don't want to feel the road?

Why are you comparing them if they're going to be bought by totally different buyers? I don't care if Toyota makes a Camry that's faster than my GTO in a straight line, my GTO will still be way more involving and fun to drive, and the same goes for a 3er.

Car enthusiats don't buy Camry's or ES's, they'd rather have something that's actually fun to drive and doesn't feel like it's floating over the road.

[Robert Hall]

Why are you comparing them if they're going to be bought by totally different buyers? I don't care if Toyota makes a Camry that's faster than my GTO in a straight line, my GTO will still be way more involving and fun to drive, and the same goes for a 3er.

Car enthusiats don't buy Camry's or ES's, they'd rather have something that's actually fun to drive and doesn't feel like it's floating over the road.

Exactly...I can see comparing a 3-series to an IS, though. The ES is catering to a totally different market segment.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I love the current ES330 model-curvaceous, roomy, nice equipment to price ratio-the front end isn't terrible, but I like the current styling much more.

[sciguy_0504]

The front looks amazing. From head on, it is much more engaging than the Lucerene.

So, why are all these people getting excited about the new ES? Maybe because they are Toyota enthusiasts, just like you guys are GM enthusiasts. Remember how all of us got excited about the Lucerene? The Lucerene is the same as this, a FWD luxury cruiser.

Yes, it is built on the Camry platform. Your point? If that is the only "bad" thing you can say about it...

[frogger]

The front end does look like a big improvement over the current ES, thats for sure. It's going to be a good car for its intended audience, there is little doubt.

[Bluesman]

All I can say is I'm very excited about this car, I think it will be the first foreign car I buy after many years of holding GM products close to my heart....

[bobo]

Lexus has the gold standard now in a cushy FWD near-lux vehicle, and this car is going to move the bar up a couple of notches. The last ES had two problems: bizarre styling (eyelids over the forehead look) and an overly floaty ride, but not terribly different from a DTS. From the small pics, the car appears attractive, but the same was initially said for the new Camry.

[VenSeattle]

I feel sorry for the ones who recently ran out to buy a loaded Avalon. Should have held out for the new ES.

[pow]

Looks pretty good... should sell well.

[Flybrian]

I feel sorry for the ones who recently ran out to buy a loaded Avalon. Should have held out for the new ES.

Yes, the Avalon seems like more of a waste now.

[Bluesman]

Lexus has the gold standard now in a cushy FWD near-lux vehicle, and this car is going to move the bar up a couple of notches.  The last ES had two problems: bizarre styling (eyelids over the forehead look) and an overly floaty ride, but not terribly different from a DTS.  From the small pics, the car appears attractive, but the same was initially said for the new Camry.

Make that (3) problems - They had a rash of complaints and problems with the 5 speed transmission...

[Bluesman]

Yes, the Avalon seems like more of a waste now.

Not to mention ugly in the face...

[Cory Wolfe]

Well, it does look pretty nice from what I can see. I'd say the best looking new Lexus... or Toyota, for that matter. Atleast the front is. That tiny teaser pic of the rear looks like it might be yet another disgusting rear from Toyota/Lexus. I guess I'll have to wait for bigger, better pics, though. Regardless, it's a FWD luxo-cruiser... Ugh... *totally turned off*

Anyways, Toyoguy, you're a funny guy... comparing an enthusiast's car to a geriatric's car.

[Cadillacfan]

This L-finesse theme is starting to become very yawn-inducing. I mean why the hell is Lexus making it's vehicles look too much a like. There is a difference between common brand identity and brand repetitiveness. To make matters worse, Toyotas are now starting to share a lot of similar design elements with the new Lexus vehicles.. Which is the last thing Toyota should be doing right now.

Lexus designers are clearly missing the point.

[Bluesman]

This L-finesse theme is starting to become very yawn-inducing.  I mean why the hell is Lexus making it's vehicles look too much a like.  There is a difference between common brand identity and brand repetitiveness.  To make matters worse, Toyotas are now starting to share a lot of similar design elements with the new Lexus vehicles.. Which is the last thing Toyota should be doing right now.

Lexus designers are clearly missing the point.

Just to play devil's advocate....Isn't Cadillac, BMW and Mercedes doing the same? I mean those makes all share a common look and theme, why does Lexus get hammered for it and those brands don't?

If they can capture a look, make it their own and expand upon it, isn't that brand building like we all talk about?? I think they're hitting the nail on the head....

[Robert Hall]

Just to play devil's advocate....Isn't Cadillac, BMW and Mercedes doing the same? I mean those makes all share a common look and theme, why does Lexus get hammered for it and those brands don't?

If they can capture a look, make it their own and expand upon it, isn't that brand building like we all talk about??  I think they're hitting the nail on the head....

Exactly... a common set of styling cues across a range of models..standard practice in luxury business.... Cadillac does it... M-B does it... BMW does it, with more variation than they used to, though.

It's interesting how Lexus is following the M-B pattern fairly closely--the small sedan and big sedan have a strong similiarity (new IS, new LS; C-class, previous S-class) with the middle sedan varying more from the theme (GS and E-class). (I'm not counting the ES).

The mistake Cadillac made is that the CTS and STS look too much alike and are too close in size, IMHO... I keep mistaking STSes for CTSes from a distance.

[Flybrian]

Just to play devil's advocate....Isn't Cadillac, BMW and Mercedes doing the same? I mean those makes all share a common look and theme, why does Lexus get hammered for it and those brands don't?

If they can capture a look, make it their own and expand upon it, isn't that brand building like we all talk about??  I think they're hitting the nail on the head....

There's a difference between following family themes and making every car look exactly like. Buicks, Mercuries, Cadillacs, and Hondas are examples of manufacturers who get it right. You know the car is a _____, but its not forced down your throat. Mercedes has become McBenz with its lookalike-except-for-size cars. Lexus used to have a decent theme without looking too contrived.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Rmember when all you import guys had flagships that could not accelerate better than a V6 Beretta? Your chatchphrase used to always be: "there's more to a sporty car than straight line acceleration" yeah, true.

Silly boy... Don't you know that ALL the measurements are subjective unless used against domestics?!?!?

I see a lot of SC 430 in the front.... But, yeah... It is a Camry... And what's funny is EVERYONE increasingly knows it and it seems to be starting to have a bad effect on the Lexi image.

I'm sure it'll hang the moon though.... I just think it's balnd and soulless, just like every other Toyota.

The front looks amazing.

So does a three headed cow.... Does that mean it's pretty?

So, why are all these people getting excited about the new ES? Maybe because they are Toyota enthusiasts,

Enthusiasm and Toyota is an oxymoron..

Yes, it is built on the Camry platform. Your point? If that is the only "bad" thing you can say about it...

I can think of many more, trust me... And I can think of many reasons why that isn't a good thing... AS I can think of many reasons why a GM sourced Buick or Cadillac is better.

BTW, a lot of this post was meant in a 'ribbing' fashion...

Make that (3) problems - They had a rash of complaints and problems with the 5 speed transmission...

FUnny THAT never made the news...

[Bluesman]

There's a difference between following family themes and making every car look exactly like. Buicks, Mercuries, Cadillacs, and Hondas are examples of manufacturers who get it right. You know the car is a _____, but its not forced down your throat. Mercedes has become McBenz with its lookalike-except-for-size cars. Lexus used to have a decent theme without looking too contrived.

Yea, but even Chevy is starting to do it!! I can't tell a Malibu from a new Impala coming at me from down the road!! They both look alike till you get close enough and can judge size and markings...

I can tell the difference between an IS, GS, LS and ES pretty easily.

[Variance]

Well, the front end looks pretty sharp and the interior isn't too shabby either. I can see this giving the Lucerne some problems.

Lucerne commercial: "A V8 isn't available in any Lexus ES."

Potential ES350 commercial: "V8 power from a V6 engine."

Of course, there's a possible torque advantage in the Lucerne's favor but the mainstreamer consumers don't usually look at torque ratings.

"Hey look, the ES350 gets the same power as the high-end Lucerne with a smaller engine. It's much more economial."

We'll see if that bears out I guess but the point is this is a heavy blow to Buick.

Edited January 30, 2006 by VarianceJ30

[Robert Hall]

Since a hybrid Camry is coming, can a hybrid ES be far behind...one more advertising talking point...

[Robert Hall]

Well, the front end looks pretty sharp and the interior isn't too shabby either. I can see this giving the Lucerne some problems.

Lucerne commercial: "A V8 isn't available in any Lexus ES."

Potential ES350 commercial: "V8 power from a V6 engine."

Of course, there's a possible torque advantage in the Lucerne's favor but the mainstreamer consumers don't usually look at torque ratings.

"Hey look, the ES350 gets the same power as the high-end Lucerne with a smaller engine. It's much more economial."

We'll see if that bears out I guess but the point is this is a heavy blow to Buick.

Add to that the Lexus has a 6-spd automatic compared to Buick's 4-spd...

[turbo200]

This is a very nice car, and sciguy is right, the front end is already much more engaging than the Lucerne. Don't those headlights remind you of the G6 though? Not a bad thing, just something I noticed. The interior, as is always the case, looks like a place you could feel rich in. The exterior design takes the cake for FWD cruisers. This should sell well. Lucerne needs an interior update, stat.

[balthazar]

I am very disappointed that the ES's styling tradition was abandoned and the headlights won't be stretched to the A-pillar and the taillights to the rear wheelwell!

I am getting a strong infiniti vibe from the front end... the area around the headlights says infintii FX to me.

[Bluesman]

Make that (3) problems - They had a rash of complaints and problems with the 5 speed transmission...

Funny THAT never made the news...

Actually it did make the news:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm

Since a hybrid Camry is coming, can a hybrid ES be far behind...one more advertising talking point...

Yes, it's planned for late in 2006.

Edited January 30, 2006 by Bluesman

[Sal Collaziano]

This L-finesse theme is starting to become very yawn-inducing.  I mean why the hell is Lexus making it's vehicles look too much a like.  There is a difference between common brand identity and brand repetitiveness.  To make matters worse, Toyotas are now starting to share a lot of similar design elements with the new Lexus vehicles.. Which is the last thing Toyota should be doing right now.

Lexus designers are clearly missing the point.

Let's look at the sales figures to see if they're really missing the point...

[Sal Collaziano]

Yea, but even Chevy is starting to do it!!  I can't tell a Malibu from a new Impala coming at me from down the road!!  They both look alike till you get close enough and can judge size and markings...

I can tell the difference between an IS, GS, LS and ES pretty easily.

Bluesman.. Don't waste your time.. You're exactly right. The styling theme is excellent and doing Lexus very well.. When people say things like "Cadillac is getting it right" in regards to how their designs are not too close - and then mention the current CTS and STS in the next sentence, you know something's wrong.. Even I have trouble distinguishing the two and I'm the biggest Caddy fan here...

Don't waste your breath - or your energy...

[Sal Collaziano]

To those who realize how impressive the Camry is, this new Lexus ES350 is going to be incredibly luxurious for an ENTRY-level, "Near" luxury vehicle..

[sciguy_0504]

FOG, it seems you had a little too much Kool-Aid.

I wonder, you harass the ES for being a Camry just for sharing a platform, so what do you think about the DTS/Lucerene and the LaCrosse/Impala?

[Bluesman]

Bluesman.. Don't waste your time.. You're exactly right. The styling theme is excellent and doing Lexus very well.. When people say things like "Cadillac is getting it right" in regards to how their designs are not too close - and then mention the current CTS and STS in the next sentence, you know something's wrong.. Even I have trouble distinguishing the two and I'm the biggest Caddy fan here...

Don't waste your breath - or your energy...

I appreciate that Sal and thanks for backing me up. I rather enjoy making what I believe to be a sensible counter point here. I'm a deeply rooted GM fan but I can't stand by and idly watch the pot call the kettle black..... I don't know how anyone can honestly look at the (4) Lexus sedans and say they all look the same, and then not give equal scrutiny to Cadillac, BMW or Benz models.

I think Cadillac is getting it right but yes, the CTS and STS look very similar to me.

[Flybrian]

I wonder, you harass the ES for being a Camry just for sharing a platform, so what do you think about the DTS/Lucerene and the LaCrosse/Impala?

Every car that's ever rode on the G-body has been a fullsize luxury car - Riviera, PA, LeSabre, both Auroras, Seville, DeVille/DTS, and Lucerne. I see no issue there.

The argument with the W-body has some basis, but its always been a mid-priced midsize car platform as have been all the cars riding it, from Lumina to LaCrosse, though the Buicks have always had more plus accruments.

I think the issue with the Camry/ES connection is the Camry has always been a rather plebian car while the ES is intended to be an entry-luxury sedan of a totally different caliber. There's a stark contrast between a 4cyl Camry CE and a loaded ES330, less of one with the W and not that much with the G.

The first ES250 was more or less a loaded Camry with frameless glass. This was pathetic and something almost rightfully likened to the much-maligned Cadillac Cimaron. The second-generation of ES was fairly well-seperated from the Camry, enough for it to be respectable and ditto for the third-gen/refresh/whatever you call it. The last Camry/ES330 took a step backwards, IMO, in design as the goofy proportions of the Camry itself was replicated in the Lexus. Can't speak of the newest one based on these pics yet.

But, in simple, there was a time when the car rightfully earned that reputation, not so much now. I believe with each successive redesign, the ES shares less and less with the Camry. Still, its fun to say 'Nice Camry' to the guy who stole your parking space or planted his car an inch from your door.

I don't know how anyone can honestly look at the (4) Lexus sedans and say they all look the same, and then not give equal scrutiny to Cadillac, BMW or Benz models.

For the record, its been pointed out alot about the McBenz styling trend and consistantly-lookalike BMWs as well as the CTS/STS similarities. Again, I say across the line Cadillacs still manage to keep its family cues without looking contrived while someone like Mercedes can't help put to push the enlarge button on the big Mercedes-Xerox machine to make its cars. Again, Lexus used to have a lineup of cars that did look like Lexuses, but didn't look like size variations of the same car. I'm hoping they manage to keep that trend of shared cues but not replications.

[Bluesman]

FOG, it seems you had a little too much Kool-Aid.

I wonder, you harass the ES for being a Camry just for sharing a platform, so what do you think about the DTS/Lucerene and the LaCrosse/Impala?

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. There seems to be this double standard that only applies to foreign brands who are experiencing well deserved growth. Where do you think Toyota learned this platform sharing technique!?

So if we can all agree that the luxury makes all have similar characteristics between models, and they're all executing the same strategy, then this really becomes a non-argument...... Doesn't it?

Edited January 30, 2006 by Bluesman

[BrewSwillis]

WOW .....I was just doing a little poking around that Lexus forum that had the pictures......check out this poll for owners problems with their current ES. Don't forget to look at the # of voters = 227. There are 565 problems just from those 227 voters on just the problems listed.....I wonder how many problems would have been listed if there was an "other" catagory?? :

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135072

There were minor problems listed on the Monte Carlo forum I used to belong to, and on the current Chrysler LX (300/Magnum/Charger) forum.....but nothing to the extent of the problems listed on that Lexus ES thread. What pieces of junk. How can those people on there rag on American car quality, and then completely overlook the pieces of crap that they are driving??