Barrett-Jackson

[HarleyEarl]

[razoredge]

Thats disappointing but still alot of money, compared to the "hemis' that are demanding that kind of money now that was a deal.

Id personally would have a hard time not driving the car.

[HarleyEarl]

So agree, Razoredge....I have always loved this car!! I would have thought it would have got closer to a million. It's a beautiful, iconic Pontiac showcar.

Edited January 22, 2006 by HarleyEarl

[Northstar]

Umm, that's pretty damn cheap. I was expecting it to be over $500k.

[Cory Wolfe]

Damn... that's it?!?!?

[caddycruiser]

Well, it's interesting, but it doesn't really "knock your socks off", at least not in pictures. Doesn't come across as something that would have people gawking at you on the street or asking all sorts of questions...a few people "in the know" would notice, but that's about it.

To everyone else, it just looks like a goofy, uglier version of an old Vette, and that has a LOT to do with it not getting more $$$.

Edited January 22, 2006 by caddycruiser

[razoredge]

Im sad to say NO GM's are bringing much money by comparision, even the icons like 49 Roadmasters or 53 Centurys, or even the Z28's or Camaro SS or even the 53 Corvettes, 63 Corvettes. Nothing, notta, I just dont get it. Old Mustangs & Mopar muscle will bring 50-100% higher than GM muscle. Look at the Aurora pace cars last year or year before bringing 50% the asking price as new Aurora. The interest just isnt there, GM is not currently "fashionable".

[HarleyEarl]

You may have something there...although right now a '69 Camaro Z-L1 has just sold for $450,000.00!

[HarleyEarl]

A 1969 Corvette L-88 just sold for $220,000.00.

[razoredge]

I guess I should have put that * in there

* not everything is carved in stone :AH-HA_wink:

[Chris_Doane]

Did you see the Gm Futurliner bus that went for over 4 million?!

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/about/press..._futurliner.asp

[intrigued]

im surprised no one mentioned the Olds F-88 concept car that sold for over 4 mill, not like thats to much lol

[HarleyEarl]

Quite amazing the amount that the Futurliner got....wow.

[ocnblu]

That's it, I'm listing my truck with Barret-Jackson.

[balthazar]

Well, as soon as I started watching a bit and seeing the money flying around, I realized my prediction of $1.75M for the Bonneville Special was going to be low. I have never seen such machinegun-fire bidding on a B-J car before! I love that car- I touched it's twin once- straightened one of the stainless 'slashes' on the front 'bumper'. The interior is wild & awesome.

The Banshee is certainly not goofy & ugly, but a very fluid, less radical stylistic variant on the Banshee/'68 Corvette theme. Looks a lot less heavy. However, tho well known it's not really 'iconic' within the Pontiac crowd, for some reason. Maybe the slight stigma of 'rejection' from GM brass back in '65? The fact that is was not promoted or shown didn't lock it into people's memory as well as a dedicated dream car? IDK. But without question, $195K was a steal- it will unquestionably appreciate from there. Joe Bortz of IL has the V-8 convertible in fine condition, but (like the Solstice)- I prefer the 'hardtop' version.

The Chrysler D'Elegance is a staggering beautful car- absolutely love it. There were a number of limited production versions that had a clear kinship to it (Ghia Special / GS-1)- somewhat less flamboyant yet no less striking. Chrysler was really the tops in styling in the middle '50s. It also should further appreciate.

The Ford Vega I had not known about before news of this auction. (Thankfully, there is still a few things to learn about the '50s & '60s for me). Really sweet little roadster!! Tho the exterior is a bit spartan for my tastes, the car looks beautifully finished inside & out. Few motors look more tasty than a full-dressed flathead. I really like this car overall- but as to whether it will appreciate notable in the near future, IDK: if I didn't know about it I find it unlikely there's a collective lust for it, but I've learned not to second guess those with bottomless pockets.

[razoredge]

Does anyone have the figure on the Bonneville & Ghia/Chrysler ? Even the Ford for that matter ? I like that Ford but I have more appreaciation for that simple sportscar look from that era than some.

Myself I was thinking that Bonneville should beat the F88, but just didnt want to commit because the bidding never makes alot of sence.

Calling the Banshee ugly and not a headturner was a bit uncalled for but typical. Thank goodness the masses dont share this same taste deviation.

What was the powertrain in Banshee and its road worthy abilities ?

[Flybrian]

Honestly, that paint scheme takes away from the Banshee. Looks very unfinished, but of course, it was a prototype. Imagine it in a deep crimson to match the interior.

[Sixty8panther]

That's it, I'm listing my truck with Barret-Jackson.

Me and Ross always joke around about bringing my '84 Datsun there after a Councours d'Elegance style over-restoration. Chromed valecover and carbon fibre rotors front and back... since it has 4-wheel disks.

Maybe some rich idiot whose uncle had one back when he was a manager at McDonalds in 1983 would get into a Bidding war wiht some JDM retard and they'd drive the price to $70,000.

[razoredge]

Honestly, that paint scheme takes away from the Banshee. Looks very unfinished, but of course, it was a prototype. Imagine it in a deep crimson to match the interior.

I was thinking the same thing last night...why silver ?

[GMTruckGuy74]

im surprised no one mentioned the Olds F-88 concept car that sold for over 4 mill, not like thats to much lol

The Olds F88 sold for $3.24 million last year.

What did the Futurliner sell for? I missed seeing it on tv. Also, what did the Bonneville Special sell for?

[balthazar]

'54 Bonneville Special : $3,024,000 (bid plus fees. Actual final bid : $2,800,000).

'52 Chrysler D'Elegance : $1,188,000 (bid plus fees)

'53 Ford Vega : $378,000 (bid plus fees)

'50 GM Futurliner : $4,320,000 (bid plus fees. Actual final bid: $4,100,000)

Banshee hardtop (at auction) was powered by a 1bbl OHC I-6. Also existing convertible is V-8 powered. I don't recall (without looking it up) what the transmission attachments are tho I believe the hardtop is a 4-speed. I have not read anything with regards to roadability of these. In general, '60s GM concepts are not as thorough & refined as the ones from the '50s, and tho the Banshees only used a minority of off-shelf A-Body suspension/chassis hardware (about 20%), they just were not pointedly engineered for handling at that point, but to impress the brass with good looks. Undoubtedly handling would've been further refined & upgraded had the car recieved an initial green light. You know the rest of the story.

[razoredge]

So Id say the power plant had alot to do with lower price then. Not that it bothers me but........ actually I'd like it more with that somewhat rare OHC I6 but Id be seeing 3 twin side drafts, special cam, sause & chezze and that would be a no/no.

Anyhow it sounds like they were drivable, in other words not hand rollers ?

Bonneville went too low, that glass roof/gullwing is worth 2 mill alone :AH-HA_wink:

[!!!TED!!!]

I predicted way wrong. I thought the Banshee would get more than the other concepts.

Its worth alot more than what it went for.

[capriceman]

I was thinking the same thing last night...why silver ?

Think of Delorean

[balthazar]

The silver on the Banshee doesn't bother me in the least.

Think of Delorean

interesting theory- could be it exactly.

Both the Banshees are completely drivable, yes.

Nope- I'm positive the V-8 / I-6 question was NOT a factor in it's value. 95% of it's bid is because it's a concept car, a V-8 / I-6 cannot account for more than 10% of it's price; powertrain is way overshadowed.

I am going to stick by my earlier assertion: the Banshee was never shown publically nor readily publicized then or since (sure: it's received some hobbyist coverage in recent years), and truth be known is just not as widely lusted after. I've been active in the Pontiac hobby for many years and the Banshee just never got a great deal of attention. Ted is right tho: it's worth a lot more than $198K, but no way more than the Bonneville Special.

This & last year's concept money is going to bring more and more of these across the block. I hope that these deep pockets have their heads on straight enough to propoerly care for them.

EDIT: I want to point out new proof of my claim that some concept cars cannot escape their XP-numbers; even B-J referred to the Banshee readily by it's XP-833 coding... yet I am still waiting to discover XP-1 thru XP-19 (minus XP-... and this era are the heavy hitters of the concepts (Wildcat I, Wildcat II, Starfire, etc).

Edited January 23, 2006 by balthazar

[HarleyEarl]

Great info Balthazar...love the convertible version, and appears driveable.

[razoredge]

Yea, thanks for the photo. XP1 ?????? I say never, Harley probably figured there would be no #1 because of the Y job or even more previous work, maybe when he was still in California. Thats my speculation.

Did these concepts come from factory collections or were they already private. Im also wondering if the same guy that bought the F88 bought the Bonneville.............imagine if you can, having both of them sittin side by side.

[balthazar]

HE- yeah, that's The Lucky Bastid Joe Bortz driving his Banshee convertible. Why 'lucky'?- for starters, those are but 2 more of his other concepts in the pics I posted: the '53 Parisienne and the '61 Tempest Monte Carlo. Yup- both of those are also drivers.

Razor- the green Bonne Special was in private hands. It was 'discovered' in 1991 by an individual who called Bortz to tell him he had the Special... which reportedly prompted some argueing; since Bortz already owned the 'only one' (the bronze example). According to what I've read, both were 'snuck out' of GM in '59. Seems everyone forgot there were 2 between '59 and '91.

Not sure but I do not believe the same guy that bought the F88 won the Special. He was there in his trademark (?) red cap but I do not recall him bidding on it.

All the Futurliners were 'released into the wild' I believe in the '50s, after GM stopped using them. Technically, they are not concepts but stylish utility vehicles.

The Banshee also was in private hands many decades before 2006. Not sure about the Vega or D'Elegance, tho I would bet very heavily that they also did NOT come from their manufacturer's vaults.

Last time I knew of a manufacturer releasing any concepts was Ford a few years ago, and they were '80s concepts (zzzzz).

[razoredge]

Cool story about the Bonneville, mysterious, Hollywood even. The hidden door way and its passages. Now lets not talk about that bone yard you brought to our attention and Mr Mitchells determination to get rid of everything Harley, cant be, shouldnt be, but yet it happened.. How could one of the best not go out of his way to protect the work of his comrades, era and mentor ? I say it had to be brass not Mitchell, it just couldnt have been. Imagine the value of these cars today, not just in dollars either. Now you said if I remember correctly from the XP project that there was 2 F88's ? I have also seen Wildcat II in 2 different colors.

these XP cars are the only cars that have intrigued me more than the old hand built Ferraris and from me that is saying alot. Imagine if you can, a Motorama tour today with everything that is left from the Y job through to the Aero Vettes or even better yet, including everything worthy since,,,,,85 Wildcat, Bengal, Cien, Sixteen, Velite, ect.

Do you think that might get the attention of America ?

I just dont get it with GM, S-F-W and I just dont get it. Maybe to many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

[HarleyEarl]

Honestly Balthazar, you should seriously think of doing a book on past concept/showcars and all their adventures and the people around them. You have such a wealth of knowledge on the subject.

[balthazar]

Razor- I know: from the rumors, looks like Mitchell's ego cost us some true heritage. I'm not so sure the '63 Riviera makes up for that.

Luckily, a great number of them still survive.

But you are right, and wow; I never thought of that: a GM travelling concept exhibit- that would be my Super Bowl, World Series, Stanley Cup and Indy 500 all wrapped up in one! Everything from the Y-Job to the Sixteen, make it an even 100 cars, make sure to hit close to Jersey.

Harley- That is something it's high time to pursue...

[Hudson]

I think someone during the coverage on Speed said that the undercarriage of the Banshee was less complete than the Bonneville, F88 and others. The Banshee was put together to move and be shown from the top side but wasn't a "complete" design prototype. That could be a reason for its lower price, too. I was disappointed in its selling price.