reflections on Brokeback Mountain

[usonia]

my bad.

[TurboRush]

Well, somuch for seing the movie with my partner........ we are on the verge of splitting up because our jobs are in 2 different cities.....

I'll be waching this one by myself

[ocnblu]

Ugh, poor guy. Hey, I've seen it 3 times so far... all alone. Which is, I guess, not as bad as seeing this movie when you're so recently single. Keep your chin up, dude.

[TurboRush]

thanks ocn

[frogger]

Caught this movie, that last phrase was tough to hear but definitely a good way to end it.

It didn't amaze me, but I enjoyed it. Heath Ledger's performance was excellent.

[bobo]

P.S. The bad thing about the movie is that there are NO hot cars.

There was a 2nd generation Camaro Z28, circa 1980. There was also an assortment of old Ford and GM pickups. In one excursion up the mountain, Jack drives a ’76 Ford F150. In the next scene, it’s 1975 and Ennis is getting a divorce. Of course, Jack could have gotten his truck in late ’75.

I felt pretty detached throughout the whole movie, probably because the characters weren’t that well developed, as they had a lot of years to cover. If the movie could have been longer with more character development, I think I could have felt more connected. Maybe they could have had fewer sheep and more of the later years. I do think that the film will eventually be considered a watershed event in the history of movies. Even though the events begin back in the ‘60’s, I think the story is still very relevant to what occurs today in rural areas and in middle America.

I think the best performance was by Michelle Williams as Alma Del Mar.

[turbo200]

I think the best performance was by Michelle Williams as Alma Del Mar.

I agree.

[ocnblu]

bobo, see it again. There are some things I picked up in repeated viewings that tied up loose ends, bringing the whole thing together. The shirt thing really blew me away, so tender.

[usonia]

hey ocnblu,

I saw the movie for the fourth time yesterday. I'm a glutton for punishment I guess but I won't go into that again.

Anyway, in the scene where they have their last argument and Ennis collapses to the ground. He says something as he grabs on to Jack, but I've never been able to quite make it out. It sounds like "I can't do this anymore" or "I can't lose anymore". What's your take on this? I have the book that has the screen play in it, but it doesn't show any dialogue in that spot.

thanks

Edited January 22, 2006 by usonia

[ocnblu]

I think it's "I can't do this anymore", but I could be wong (sp?). Perhaps another visit to the cinema will help me answer your question.

[Cory Wolfe]

Damn... and I haven't even seen it once, yet. Someone needs to steal me some weekend...

[usonia]

When I started this thread, I had a bit of a selfish motivation in doing it. I wrote my story partly because it helped me tremendously to put it into words. I was also looking for other people's experiences in hopes that I would find that I wasn't a freak in the way this movie affected me. With that in mind, I posted my story (with some refinedments the more I think about things) in a couple of other places.

I have been amazed at the number of incredibly heartfelt emails I have received from other people. I tell you, there is a lot of sadness out there.....

[bobo]

After this movie has sunk in for 24 hours, I have a few more thoughts. It really is a tragic story. It's the feel-bad movie of the year. But's it's just being realistic. I found Ennis to be a more sympathetic character than Jack. It's hard not to be upset with all the people who got emotionally hurt, but that's the way it was. The most touching scene was Ennis visiting Jack's parents. There was little dialog, and yet so much was said. How things could have turned out so differently had circumstances been different.

[ocnblu]

I loved the way his mom was so accepting. The scene was bleak, but beautiful. And oh God, when he went into that closet... sigh. There's a whole world out there.

[usonia]

I loved the way his mom was so accepting.  The scene was bleak, but beautiful.  And oh God, when he went into that closet... sigh.  There's a whole world out there.

Yeah, that was a tough one for me. It hit pretty close to home. My dad was always very stern and my mom just quietly put up with it. When he would go off on one of his tirades, she had a way of giving us kids that look so we knew it would pass and all would be ok.

When Ennis came back downstairs with the shirts, the look she gave him spoke volumes. It was like she knew the whole story, was happy that her son had known someone who loved him and was glad Ennis had found the shirts. wow.

[ocnblu]

Please allow me this obsession... I saw the movie again this afternoon (off work today), then I went and bought the short story in hardback form... and the soundtrack. I am listening to it now. I've never spent money to see a great movie twice... let alone FOUR times.

Edited January 24, 2006 by ocnblu

[sciguy_0504]

No need to be sorry, Ocn.

[usonia]

Please allow me this obsession... I saw the movie again this afternoon (off work today), then I went and bought the short story in hardback form... and the soundtrack.  I am listening to it now.  I've never spent money to see a great movie twice... let alone FOUR times.

b]  

Yep, saw it 4 times, got the book, got the book with the movie script in it and got the soundtrack. If you visualize the scenes in the movie to match up with the music as you listen to it (like me) then you know you're officially obsessed.

[CARBIZ]

Bobo is right: the movie is a bit of an emotional train-wreck. Everyone gets burned. When Alma catches the two of them kissing against the wall, half the audience (including me) burst into nervous laughter. Then I realized, from her point of view, it wasn't funny at all. The old cliche about being able to compete with another woman, but what do you do about another man...?

But as I have thought more about this movie, it does burn me up a little that, once again, gay people are being portrayed as doomed, damned, etc. For sure things were pretty bad in the 1960s, and probably still are in some areas of the world, but Ennis was being a bit of a cop out. He took the easy way out and ruined everyone's lives because of his own lack of courage.

I may be one of the lucky ones, but I resisted and fought all through my childhood. I knew I was gay before puberty and fought my parents all through my teenage years, but I know from my couple years of peer counselling on a gay youth line 27 years ago that it isn't easy for everyone. It wasn't easy, but in 1976, at the age of 15, I stood up to my parents and told them I was gay. I work in a car dealership and I am "out" to everyone. It is not a badge of honor, it is a matter of principle. I don't advertise it - in fact, I can easily slip through the straight world unnoticed, but there are happy stories out there and you don't have to look very hard.

It still astounds me, however, the number of people I have met over the years from the small town where I lived for 11 years who are gay. My mother's best friend's husband, at 52 years of age, after nearly 30 years of marriage, turned to his wife and told her he was gay.

(Me shaking my head.)

As a historical piece, Brokeback is wonderful, but I want to see more gay characters who are just people, not emotional wrecks, like Wil (Wil & Grace), queens, sluts or sexually sterile.

[Chris_Doane]

Damn... and I haven't even seen it once, yet. Someone needs to steal me some weekend...

Maybe if you asked your uncle Oldsmoboi really, really, incredibly, insanely, never before seen, really, really nicely.

[trinacriabob]

Snatched a rental GP for the weekend and went to Chico CA to visit a friend I used to work with who took a job there. We went to the cineplex for the bargain matinee and saw "Brokeback Mountain." It was the first movie I'd seen since "Sideways"...so it's been a while...duh, like a year. Amazingly, in a college town, most of the audience were 50+ married couples and a smattering of 20-somethings. The audience was extremely quiet...you could have heard a pin drop.

It is a thought provoking and excellently crafted and acted film. There is no doubt about that. The creator of this film uses silence effectively to convey messages. In so many scenes, no words are spoken. Peoples' expressions speak volumes.

In general, the film is bleak. That is set up early on when you see the dusty streets, the dingy trailer in the Wyoming town and the rumbling of the freight train. The first human interaction is the surly rancher in the trailer. Also, this is a movie about two guys who are socioeconomically disadvantaged. Their lives are definitely an uphill climb. I wonder how much power the film would have had if it occurred in an upper middle class suburb of Denver or Baltimore. Probably not much.

While the controversy centers around the purported sexual tension in the film, one can take away a lot of messages that are larger than that. The film frames people in a very lonely context...it's about the hunger emanating from loneliness and drastic measures some people will take. It really drives home that we enter this world alone and we leave this world alone. The other theme is how different people choose to process adversity in their lives. Ennis operates in "shut down" mode, probably the result of his difficult childhood. (Known anybody who lost both parents at a young age? I do. It's a scar most do not overcome easily). Not surprisingly, he turns inward with adversity. The more outgoing/good-ole-boyish Jack processes his trials in an outward manner. There's enough proof of that.

The supporting cast was awesome. Alma operates in "shut down" mode to survive her ordeal and keep things together. Plus, it's obvious she really loves Ennis. Jack's wife is in "shut down" mode for other reasons. I think her satisfaction in life comes from less substantial things to begin with. How a well bred Tri Delta of means and a rodeo dilettante hook up is beyond me and the film doesn't address that very well. But the film does not need to spoon feed all of the connections - it can be done inferentially. It also leaves some questions unanswered (Jack's parents and their dynamics, the phone call Ennis made and the basis for that "vision" -- extremely disturbing), as if that is your homework.

Ok, now, given some of the previous posts, don't beat me up for the following: Many exceptional films chronicle same-sex friendships with incredible skill and poignancy. Here, I saw an incredible friendship more so than the sexual antics. Yet most of those other firms do not "sexualize" the friendship while still conveying deep affection and fondness. However, that is part of the plot and the tempest it sets off, so you respect the author's/creator's design for the story.

This film left me kind of numb...the same way I left the theater after "American Beauty" and "Sideways." These films all deal with how the characters process their needs, insecurities and problems within themselves and how it impacts others in their lives. Some of you were very jarred by "Brokeback." The most powerful film I have ever seen was "Cinema Paradiso" (foreign, 1989, subtitles) and it is the only one I recall that brought on the tears... and I did my best to downplay this in the dark cabin on a transatlantic flight between Rome and Toronto---it hit way, way too close to home. I spent a lot of time doing character analysis with that one too.

In short, the above are all "heavy" films. They were all excellent, yet there is no repeat performance. Second sittings require that the film have more levity.

[turbo200]

  The most powerful film I have ever seen was "Cinema Paradiso" (foreign, 1989, subtitles) and it is the only one I recall that brought on the tears... and I did my best to downplay this in the dark cabin on a transatlantic flight between Rome and Toronto---it hit way, way too close to home.  I spent a lot of time doing character analysis with that one too..

Cinema Paradiso is one of my all time favorites. Watching it was a wonderful reverie.

[ocnblu]

8 Oscar nominations.

[trinacriabob]

Cinema Paradiso is one of my all time favorites. Watching it was a wonderful reverie.

I spent ages 4 through 8 in a small town located 40 miles from where Cinema Paradiso was filmed. I "knew" every one of the characters. There is so much depth -- and there are a lot of messages, most of them might only hold meaning to people from the area who lived those experiences...like my parents and even me, to some extent, since I understand the context. When I saw it on the plane, I was just flying back after accompanying my mom over there as I wanted to get her away from her surroundings since my dad had died 3 months prior. I had seen it way before, but the circumstances on this viewing made it a lot heavier to deal with.

[wpbharry]

I made a movie with Vipey. Actually it was just a movie with me and Vipeys picture. Ocn had has picture in it too. Yum yummy in my tummy. It was nominated for a Joshie Award.

[ocnblu]

Harry, you know what? You're really gettin' on my nerves, buster.

[Paolino]

Well, I saw the movie today...

I am absolutely torn apart... I haven't felt like this in, well, a long time. Granted I'm kinda going through heartbreak right now, I was just absolutely destroyed over and over during the course of the movie, and almost felt like I could relate to a degree.

I loudly gasped at the end when the story of what happened to Jack Twist, as told by his ex wife (are they called ex if they're separated?)

I couldn't even talk for a while, and my friend Stacy knew what was on my mind, so she let me be.

But here it is, 8 hours later, and I'm still as frazzled as I was before.

And I felt SO bad for Michelle Williams' character, Alma... having tried twice to do the "straight" thing and force myself to be with women... just knowing I couldn't give "all" of myself, heart and soul, to the girl... I could feel her pain, and understood her reaction as I caused it to happen with two women before.

And Ennis' shame he felt, when he got violent as Alma confronted him during dinner after they were divorced... the rage that wants to overtake you... it just hit too many nerves inside me. It took me to a place I never wanted to go back to again.

Was a very difficult movie to watch. Incredibly powerful.

[TurboRush]

whoa..... I think in a way I'm glad I didnt get to see it because of all the recent changes in my life..... but I cant wait to see it when it comes out on DVD..... I havent seen it anymore at the theatres here

[trinacriabob]

I loudly gasped at the end when the story of what happened to Jack Twist, as told by his ex wife (are they called ex if they're separated?)

The most disturbing part of the film which should not be given away for those who have yet to see it. I don't know if you viewed it the same way - I saw that this film was about so much more than sexual identity. It's about how people process adversity. Despite the breathtaking grandeur of the West, the film is very dour...from beginning to end. But it's a work that merits respect.

About that disturbing part, was it real or was it Ennis's projection? I am still perplexed on that but don't need to see it again to find out.

It's as if you went to the bathroom or to get candy during that scene, you missed the whole film. (I found this analogous to the scene in "Body Heat" where William Hurt receives the clasp envelope with the high school yearbook while he is in prison...if you miss him going through the yearbook then you may as well kiss that movie good-bye).

[Paolino]

Cinema Paradiso is one of my all time favorites. Watching it was a wonderful reverie.

Let me tell you a FUNNY story...

I have seen Cinema Paradiso God knows how many times over SO many years... last year, I decided, "Oh, I'll show this to my students before a vacation, we'll do some work on Sicily and geography, and they'll get a kick out of the movie."

I never knew there were two versions of the film. So, there I am in the back of the room, grading papers, and I hear, "Uh, Profe G.... Profe G!" and I look up and there are two people SCREWING in a CHURCH... totally naked... just going at it... grunting, grinding... I thought I was going to black out.

At least I remembered to fast-forward the scene towards the beginning of the film where the boys are jerking off in the front row of the theater LOL

Naturally, I showed this movie because I felt La vita è bella (Life Is Beautiful), would be too upsetting for them, too mature and emotional a theme for my sixth graders to handle. Naturally, the sevenths and eighths saw La vita è bella--you know, the clean film! LOL

The most disturbing part of the film which should not be given away for those who have yet to see it.  I don't know if you viewed it the same way - I saw that this film was about so much more than sexual identity.  It's about how people process adversity.  Despite the breathtaking grandeur of the West, the film is very dour...from beginning to end.  But it's a work that merits respect.

About that disturbing part, was it real or was it Ennis's projection?  I am still perplexed on that but don't need to see it again to find out.

The movie was incredibly dour... that was one of the comments I made to my friends is how depressing it is, start to finish, with like no ups at all.

Yes, it is about how people process adversity, and I noticed that element in it, but I just couldn't help but identify with too many elements of the gay characters, being gay myself.

As for the disturbing part, I imagined that what happened, because of the mention of the tire iron in Jack Twist's "accident", Ennis invisioned and felt throughout his body, the same reaction to the story he told in the beginning of the movie. My only other concern was that maybe Jack didn't have an "accident", and maybe it happened for the same reason as in the story Ennis tells in the beginning. But I can't think too much of that now... I'm truly spent... drained.

[trinacriabob]

I never knew there were two versions of the film.  So, there I am in the back of the room, grading papers, and I hear, "Uh, Profe G.... Profe G!"  and I look up and there are two people SCREWING in a CHURCH... totally naked... just going at it... grunting, grinding... I thought I was going to black out.

At least I remembered to fast-forward the scene towards the beginning of the film where the boys are jerking off in the front row of the theater LOL

Naturally, I showed this movie because I felt La vita è bella (Life Is Beautiful), would be too upsetting for them, too mature and emotional a theme for my sixth graders to handle.  Naturally, the sevenths and eighths saw La vita è bella--you know, the clean film! LOL

Why did you have to tell me that? Now there's an innocence lost factor with "Cinema Paradiso" as well? That sure as hell is not the version I saw.

I , to this day, am confused about "Life is Beautiful" (La Vita e Bella). It's a movie that schizophrenically goes from being a goof-ass comedy to something so incredibly tragic. And, yes, I know that it was probably intentional to show the chasm between good and evil.

The message in "Life is Beatiful" is one of immeasurable love - (1) that Nicoletta Braschi (don't know character name) VOLUNTEERS to get on the train, and (2) that Roberto Benigni (don't remember character name) as well all as the gaunt men withering away in their bunks do what it takes to protect this little kid's innocent world from being stolen from him. On that level, it was nothing short of stunning.

[ocnblu]

Paulie... yes, the movie can be overwhelming. It's still playing at my local cineplex, and even though I've seen it 4 times already, I'm still apt to see it again, even though I know it's going to take the wind out of me.

[Paolino]

Why did you have to tell me that?  Now there's an innocence lost factor with "Cinema Paradiso" as well?  That sure as hell is not the version I saw.

I , to this day, am confused about "Life is Beautiful" (La Vita e Bella).  It's a movie that schizophrenically goes from being a goof-ass comedy to something so incredibly tragic.  And, yes, I know that it was probably intentional to show the chasm between good and evil. 

The message in "Life is Beatiful" is one of immeasurable love - (1) that Nicoletta Braschi (don't know character name) VOLUNTEERS to get on the train, and (2) that Roberto Benigni (don't remember character name) as well all as the gaunt men withering away in their bunks do what it takes to protect this little kid's innocent world from being stolen from him.  On that level, it was nothing short of stunning.

That was one of the incredible aspects of Life Is Beautiful... their love. Dora just NEEDED to be near her family, even if it puts her in the path of death, and Guido, he had to protect his child, as well as keep his wife hopeful (by playing her song, yelling messages over the loudspeaker), throughout the devastation.

Paulie... yes, the movie can be overwhelming.  It's still playing at my local cineplex, and even though I've seen it 4 times already, I'm still apt to see it again, even though I know it's going to take the wind out of me.

Ocn, I'm almost tempted to drive out to PA to see it with you. Of course, I'll be more prepared this time by having two boxes of Kleenex with me! lol

Trinacriabob, another EXCELLENT Italian film is L'ultimo bacio (The Last Kiss). You can actually rent it at Blockbuster, although it's a bit difficult to find. Essentially it's about 5 guys, all friends and in different parts of their lives (one married with a child, one single, one a player, one engaged, etc.), and how they're coping with women and all the changes happening about them. What I love about it is, with ALL of the different scenarios, it presents relationship problems from like a full lifetime... like mid-twenties to senior-age status.

However, do NOT watch it with someone who might be offended by profanity as "cazzo" is like every other word.