Spoke w/Chevy Guy at LA Auto Show - Disturbing!

[bcarr22]

Told him how Chevy's focus on horsepower was a welcome relief. Told him how the Z06 and TBSS gave me hope that car guys were still running things at GM. We started talking about the Camaro concept and I told him if they build it without watering down the design, meaning build it very near the concept, I'd put one in my garage.

His response was totally disturbing....

He said GM marketing is convinced they should write off buyers older than 40, since they won't be able to sell them many more cars anyway. He said GM Mktg believes younger buyers are only concerned with technology (bells and whistles) in their cars rather than horsepower and cubic inches.

He was *very* serious when he said he wouldn't be surprised if the Camaro came out V6/FWD only! I told him that would be a huge mistake and many of us would just write off GM. He said he understood, but they may not be counting on us for business anyway. He was adamant about the difference between working for Chevy and working for GM. Twovery different cultures.,

He urged me to go to www.chevy.com and give them 110% of my passion for their cars. It's still not too late to convince the corporate guys.

So, that's what we've all got to do. We've got to let GM know that we will buy their cars, provided they're great. Then we've got to tell them what we think a great car is.

BC

[mustang84]

V6 FWD? After all the success the Mustang has had? That seems to be the most boneheaded decision GM could ever make...I find it hard to believe any truth to his statements. Seriously...I don't think GM would be that stupid.

[Flybrian]

What Mustang said. Back in the late-80s when it was close to a reality? Sure, since everyone was going FWD then. But no, not today.

[Member55]

Hey bcarr22, are you sure you weren't talking to some car window cleaner at the show?

[pow]

Kinda O-T, but at LAIAS, I noticed that GM's employment of local dealership salesmen was more blatant than that of other companies. Their scowl and sheer salesmenness was more threatening than the dedicated autoshow personell (if such a thing exists) of other brands. They weren't very classy, to say the least.

Edited January 17, 2006 by empowah

[siegen]

:rotflmao:

I certainly hope none of you actually believed him (I'll give you a hint, look at sign up date).

[Guest Josh]

The "models" at the show know nothing. One of my customers is a drop dead gorgeous model for GM and she has told me first hand, GM tells them what to say etc.

My bet? This "Chevy guy" was going with what he had to say. Marketing told him to bolster Chevy.com and to get responses there. Nothing more, 'nor less. The Camaro will not be a FWD, V6 vehicle.

[Sixty8panther]

Wow... :rotflmao:

I hear the Next Suburban wil be unibody and FWD too, and the next Corvette Z06 wil be powered by a Lexus DOHC V8 of undecided dispacement.

[RJB]

Well if they came out with a Camaro like that GM might as well shut off the lights and close the door!! I don't think they want the option of shooting themselves in the foot right now, that would be total damnation to do that. What they need to do is speed up the process of introducing this car to market so the buzz does not go away too much.

[Newbiewar]

with all you fokes in LA... you ought to give me some love at the dealership... come by and see me i'll show you my trans am... whatever shoot the $h!...

[bcarr22]

My sign-up date is irrelevant. I'm not a shill here. Just a Chevy fan who would hate to see all the promise the new Camaro holds go up in V6/FWD smoke.

My first car was a '67 Camaro, 327, Powerglide. Loved that car and wish I still had it.

The Chevy guy was wearing a suit and had a Chevrolet name badge on. He was hunched over a computer at the desk when I approached him. He wasn't a car salesman. He was definitely farther up the food chain than that. (No offense to any car salesmen reading this.)

The guy stressed that V6/FWD would be a GM decision and not a Chevrolet choice. If it happened, it would be based on GM Marketing's research. I took that to mean focus groups, etc. He said the car guys at Chevy want to remake a muscle car in the Camaro. He said there is already a movement within GM to emasculate the Camaro before it even gets here. Stillborn is more like it.

Yes, he did try to get me to voice my opinion at chevy.com. But he said not to bother if I didn't care if they build the car or not. If we want to see the car built, we have to convince them to build it as it is.

Hey, I'm just trying to help. If you don't want to believe it, it's no sweat off my @$$.

BC

[bcarr22]

Oh, yeah.

We talked about the success of the Mustang. He talked about how they have "every flavor from V6 to GT and Chevy would prefer to do the same." But GM calls the shots and they're *very* cautious about leaking any more cash. Nobody is ready to stake their career on the success of any new car.

Bottom line: Chevy's "car guy culture" wants to build the car (maybe even a Z28 derivative), but GM holds the purse strings.

Did you see that Kerkorian's mouthpiece said GM burns up $24M PER DAY!

BC

[Chazman]

The guy stressed that V6/FWD would be a GM decision and not a Chevrolet choice.  If it happened, it would be based on GM Marketing's research.  I took that to mean focus groups, etc.  He said the car guys at Chevy want to remake a muscle car in the Camaro.  He said there is already a movement within GM to emasculate the Camaro before it even gets here.  Stillborn is more like it. 

Forget that guy. He's a nitwit.

[Newbiewar]

My sign-up date is irrelevant. I'm not a shill here.  Just a Chevy fan who would hate to see all the promise the new Camaro holds go up in V6/FWD smoke. 

My first car was a '67 Camaro, 327, Powerglide.  Loved that car and wish I still had it.

The Chevy guy was wearing a suit and had a Chevrolet name badge on.  He was hunched over a computer at the desk when I approached him.  He wasn't a car salesman.  He was definitely farther up the food chain than that.  (No offense to any car salesmen reading this.) 

The guy stressed that V6/FWD would be a GM decision and not a Chevrolet choice.  If it happened, it would be based on GM Marketing's research.  I took that to mean focus groups, etc.  He said the car guys at Chevy want to remake a muscle car in the Camaro.  He said there is already a movement within GM to emasculate the Camaro before it even gets here.  Stillborn is more like it. 

Yes, he did try to get me to voice my opinion at chevy.com.  But he said not to bother if I didn't care if they build the car or not.  If we want to see the car built, we have to convince them to build it as it is.

Hey, I'm just trying to help.  If you don't want to believe it, it's no sweat off my @$$.

BC

Oh, yeah. 

We talked about the success of the Mustang.  He talked about how they have "every flavor from V6 to GT and Chevy would prefer to do the same."  But GM calls the shots and they're *very* cautious about leaking any more cash.  Nobody is ready to stake their career on the success of any new car.

Bottom line:  Chevy's "car guy culture" wants to build the car (maybe even a Z28 derivative), but GM holds the purse strings.

Did you see that Kerkorian's mouthpiece said GM burns up $24M PER DAY!

BC

no offense taken, i'm one of those lowsy salesmen that everyone dispises... haha i'm about the most no pressure salesman there is... lol if my managers knew what i told customers i'd be fired for sure

yea GM does probably burn 24 million per day... but if uaw went on strike... GM will lose about 1 billion per day...

so with that aspect... 24 million doesnt look so bad...

sooo when hearing the camaro concept cost gm cost gm 15 million... in GM time, thats a half days worth of work...

i wouldnt let focus groups worry lutz...

he's got his mind set... they would have made the solstice fwd and pink if they listened to focus groups...

[bcarr22]

Cost of the Concept is immaterial. GM could pay for the entire development before lunch, no doubt.

But actually *building* the car is another story. It's exponentially more expensive than a concept. Now you're talking billions. Now you're talking about commiting to a path when you've got limited money and you're in the middle of a minefield.

Just look at how GM derailed development of a RWD platform so they could focus on bringing their newly updated SUVs (Tahoe/Suburban) to market. Historically, these have been really profitable vehicles for GM.

How were they to know that gas prices would surpass $3/ga.? It remains to be seen if GM made the right choice there. Only time will tell.

Given GM's current financial predicament, nobody wants to stake their career on the development of a single car. Veddy sceddy.

BC

[Petra]

We talked about the success of the Mustang.  He talked about how they have "every flavor from V6 to GT and Chevy would prefer to do the same."

This I don't get. I mean, it's not as though GM has a shortage of competitive engines in their parts bin. In fact, GM has just come out with a slew of all-new or much-improved powertrains: The 3.9L. V6, the 2.8L. V6 (turbocharged in SAABs), the 3.6L. Cadillac V6. In V8 territory, there are the new and improved truck engines of various displacements, the improved small block, and the 6.0L. Corvette motor. Furthermore, at least half of these engines (and all of the V6's!) can already be had for a Manual transmission. So, if you ask me, the thought that Chevy doesn't have "every flavour" of powertrain is a complete and total cop-out.

I do agree, though, that if you love the Camaro, you need to let GM know @ chevy.com. Sorry C&G, but those are really the only responses they're going to pay attention to.

[NOS2006]

lmao It's funny that you guys are even putting serious thought into this!

Obviously the guy was either mentally challenged or he was trying to flare your emotions to e-mail GM to produce this.

The concept was a V8 RWD car.

[z28luvr01]

What Mustang said. Back in the late-80s when it was close to a reality? Sure, since everyone was going FWD then. But no, not today.

And when word leaked about the GM-80 FWD Camaro, enthusiasts went nuts. Think about how much worse it'll be this time around, with Camaro enthusiasts not having a Camaro for four years and counting. Yeah, what mustang84 said, GM is not that stupid.

[jry]

seriously pulling of some leg here.

i asked someone at one of the displays about AWD and they almost didn't know what it meant. had to get a product specialist who, in turn, had to call a factory person on his cell phone.

[samuel]

My sign-up date is irrelevant. I'm not a shill here.  Just a Chevy fan who would hate to see all the promise the new Camaro holds go up in V6/FWD smoke. 

My first car was a '67 Camaro, 327, Powerglide.  Loved that car and wish I still had it.

The Chevy guy was wearing a suit and had a Chevrolet name badge on.  He was hunched over a computer at the desk when I approached him.  He wasn't a car salesman.  He was definitely farther up the food chain than that.  (No offense to any car salesmen reading this.) 

The guy stressed that V6/FWD would be a GM decision and not a Chevrolet choice.  If it happened, it would be based on GM Marketing's research.  I took that to mean focus groups, etc.  He said the car guys at Chevy want to remake a muscle car in the Camaro.  He said there is already a movement within GM to emasculate the Camaro before it even gets here.  Stillborn is more like it. 

Yes, he did try to get me to voice my opinion at chevy.com.  But he said not to bother if I didn't care if they build the car or not.  If we want to see the car built, we have to convince them to build it as it is.

Hey, I'm just trying to help.  If you don't want to believe it, it's no sweat off my @$$.

BC

I think the point is that whoever you talked to was full of it. It's the same thing as "my buddy works at a dealership and he said....". I would not imagine that some guy working the chevy stand for GM really had a clue what was going on at a high level within GM.

[sciguy_0504]

I can't even imagine what would happen if GM actually put out a FWD Camaro. I really hope it's not true but you never know with GM. We all know how good its marketing is!

[Guest YellowJacket894]

And when word leaked about the GM-80 FWD Camaro, enthusiasts went nuts. Think about how much worse it'll be this time around, with Camaro enthusiasts not having a Camaro for four years and counting. Yeah, what mustang84 said, GM is not that stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Didn't that turn out to be the Beretta IROC or Z26?

[mphmag]

Guys,

forget this thread. Regardless of the future of the camaro this platform is heading straight for OZ and holden. A land that lives with RWD 24/7.

Holden needs a new platform. That is how GM will afford the Camaro here.

Easy enough.

If gas prices throw things off that's a different story. but the Holdens still need their new platform to simply exist.

This thread is just silly.

[fbodfather]

Simply NOT TRUE.........

To whomever talked to the person at the Chevy Exhibit at Los Angeles.....I'd like a description of the person that said that.......hopefully you remember his name (as all Chevy Product Specialists wear name tags.....)

I can assure you that if indeed this was said, I need to have words with this person because it simply is NOT TRUE.

[Ghost Dog]

Simply NOT TRUE.........

To whomever talked to the person at the Chevy Exhibit at Los Angeles.....I'd like a description of the person that said that.......hopefully you remember his name (as all Chevy Product Specialists wear name tags.....)

I can assure you that if indeed this was said, I need to have words with this person because it simply is NOT TRUE.

Eeek! Somebody may end up sleeping with the Fishes!

[razoredge]

OK, so theres no problems with GM's dealerships.........nor their personal.......nor their marketing stratagies.......nor the education givin employees about current and future products.....guys like these have nothing at all to do with why GM is loosing sales......intelegent people dont buy GMs because they cant do business with morons.......not because the little plastic volumn control knob is not exacty where Honda would put it....GM just doesnt realize each and every department in the chain is shooting the entire bucket full of holes. All I can figure is this guy had to have been a Honda implant

[cavalier36]

it wont be FWD.. why would they do that when they already have the Cobalt SS and the G6 coupes? they already have FWD coupes covered.. and if you throw in the Monte Carlo a FWD camaro would be useless and would compete with those models too much..

[hyperv6]

Simply NOT TRUE.........

To whomever talked to the person at the Chevy Exhibit at Los Angeles.....I'd like a description of the person that said that.......hopefully you remember his name (as all Chevy Product Specialists wear name tags.....)

I can assure you that if indeed this was said, I need to have words with this person because it simply is NOT TRUE.

If you catch them could you post pic's to show what happens to infidels!

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

The "models" at the show know nothing. One of my customers is a drop dead gorgeous model for GM and she has told me first hand, GM tells them what to say etc.

My bet? This "Chevy guy" was going with what he had to say. Marketing told him to bolster Chevy.com and to get responses there. Nothing more, 'nor less. The Camaro will not be a FWD, V6 vehicle.

The dealers don't know anything most of the time either-I approached one woman at the Mitsubishi Galant at last year's auto show when talking with someone, she said Galant had the most passenger room in its class. I asked her how much it was, and she said she didn't know, just that it had the most. It was really pitiful.

[haypops]

Several posts implied chevy wants one thing and GM another. Just how would that work?? There are no chevy engines, transmissions, alternators, etc. They are all GM. There is no Chevy only designers are there. Isn't the indivusal for small car development (Queen) the same for Saurn and Chevy. So who exactly is the chevy in Chevy wants this but GM won't give it to them? I thought those days of division independance were long gone. Comments?

[regfootball]

The dealers don't know anything most of the time either-I approached one woman at the Mitsubishi Galant at last year's auto show when talking with someone, she said Galant had the most passenger room in its class. I asked her how much it was, and she said she didn't know, just that it had the most. It was really pitiful.

she may not have known the exact figure but the Galant is one of the biggest sedans in interior space, actually.

[frogger]

Meh, if its FWD they might as well not build it. If they do buid a FWD Camaro any time soon, its pretty obvious the end of GM being anything worth cheering for is near. That being said, I don't believe there will be a FWD Camaro.

[fbodfather]

OK.....I'm gonna say it again.....pay attention.

Camaro will NOT be FWD.......and I still want to understand who made the statement within the Chevy Exhibit. I don't believe it was any of my product specialists because they already know how much the Camaro means to you and Chevrolet.......

It may have been someone posing as a GM Employee....or it may have been someone from a dealership.

But I'll say it again........this is totally untrue........further, we (Chevrolet) want to appeal to all age groups. In case anyone hadn't noticed, the U.S. Market is the most competitive market in the world....both in terms of volume and choice of vehicles......no country has anywhere near the choices that we have in the U.S. and Canada.........no one.

[Guest Josh]

Guys,

forget this thread. Regardless of the future of the camaro this platform is heading straight for OZ and holden. A land that lives with RWD 24/7.

Holden needs a new platform. That is how GM will afford the Camaro here.

Easy enough.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To build on what Dave said.....GM flew the Holden engineers, designers, marketing team into the Heritage Center in Sterling Heights and they were present at the debut Monday. Tell me that's not as clear cut as one can get.

I'll agree about the comment of this thread.

I know Holden has been involved in this all along and the program was never cancelled. The "cancellation" was something to steer media away from the program and to keep the media off people's back involved in the Camaro concept.

That said, the Camaro concept has one really, really big fault. It's the same I bitched about at the Embassy Suites in Troy. The interior. Poll 100 consumers in todays market place.....interior design will reign supreme. GM MUST show a functioning, working interior on this car A-SAP.

[knightfan26917]

*shakes head*

While I definitely do NOT believe that Chevrolet would be that cruel (Camaro as FWD), I certainly wouldn't put it past them....

After all, they've done it before ... 3 times ... feeding us a FWD malibu, monte carlo & impala ... all the while not caring about the enthusiasts of these cars, all of which were originally RWD....

Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker

MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/

Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html

What's it like to buy your favorite car brand new? Wish I knew...

[turbo200]

Aside from concept extremes and eccentricities, I really really don't see a problem with the interior. I think it's simply designed and even elegant for a pony car. It blows the Mustang away in looks and style. Quality and features and the extreme parts of it are obviously still too early to judge.

[turbo200]

Oh and not to harp on the guy who started this thread anymore, I wouldn't beleive this info in a million years.

[bcarr22]

Simply NOT TRUE.........

To whomever talked to the person at the Chevy Exhibit at Los Angeles.....I'd like a description of the person that said that.......hopefully you remember his name (as all Chevy Product Specialists wear name tags.....)

I can assure you that if indeed this was said, I need to have words with this person because it simply is NOT TRUE.

fbodfather,

I've PM'd you. Please respond.

Thanks!

bcarr22

[bcarr22]

fbodfather has convinced me the info I was given was false.

GM has way too much riding on the Camaro's success (actually ANY of their vehicles' success) to risk failure and the wrath of diehard supporters by watering down the platform.

Scott also convinced me that old farts like me have a place in GM's future. They do plan to offer products, like the Camaro, geared toward enthusiasts like us. I suggested designing carrying space for walkers and wheelchairs, but haven't received confirmation yet. ;-)

So, let's close this thread.

Bus driver,MOVE THAT BUS!

BC

[FRANKENSTEIN]

I for one beleive him about the new camaro, we all want a new killer camaro, all of us, i can't wait but a close relative of mine works in new projets at GM, he told me about this exact car 5 years ago at the time he was working in ST-Therese, he descrisbe the car to me in some details.

Now when i talk to him about the new car he grins, i told him it sounds to me like GM didn't want to spend the money on anything new so they dusted off the 5 year old concept to see what the response would be, he didn't say anything, i also told him that the Challenger looks like a "ready to be built concept" he agreed, i also told him GM better get going on the Camaro to compete, he told me not to hold my breath.

He is an engineer very dry and to the point, we ended our talk on the fact that i taught GM was going down hill fast, and they piss me off and that if they don't have a muscle car ready to sell in 2 years i will be driving a Challenger (i can't beleive i said that) he told me to never come to visit him with it.

J-P

[Robert Hall]

Now when i talk to him about the new car he grins, i told him it sounds to me like GM didn't want to spend the money on anything new so they dusted off the 5 year old concept to see what the response would be, he didn't say anything, i also told him that the Challenger looks like a "ready to be built concept" he agreed, i also told him GM better get going on the Camaro to compete, he told me not to hold my breath.

Yeah, remember, this is the same GM that said they could compete effectively with the the new Mustang with the Cobalt SS and the Monte Carlo SS...

[z28luvr01]

Yeah, remember, this is the same GM that said they could compete effectively with the the new Mustang with the Cobalt SS and the Monte Carlo SS...

....while they were designing the Camaro concept.

[Sal Collaziano]

Delete this thread. Chevy executives have no plans on a V6 only or FWD Camaro. To even believe this is a possibility is to believe they've never looked on the internet to see what people want. And to believe they don't care what people want... Forget it... This is funny...

[jry]

they always say that its hard to pry money out of the hands of the 55 plus crowd. i think the best way to do it is this retro revival. bring in something that reminds them of their youth. build a car that they couldn't buy when they were younger but, now, have plenty of coin to blow on a third car but do not want the trouble of restoring a true classic. the name of the game is to build something to get the populus to part with their cash. making aging baby boomers look/feel younger is where the $$$ is at.

[lakefire]

I couldn't find the "Troll" icon so that's all I have to say. Don't respond to this guy, you are only eggin' him on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

n Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts rude or offensive messages on the Internet, such as on online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants. "Troll" can also mean the message itself or be a verb meaning to post such messages. "Trolling" is also commonly used to describe the activity.

[Cadillacfan]

The fact that this person also signed on under a different name to make it look like people agree with him is just sad. Some people need serious help.

Trolling it easier for you at Autoweek or Autoblog. No one will let you here.

[bcarr22]

The fact that this person also signed on under a different name to make it look like people agree with him is just sad.  Some people need serious help.

Trolling it easier for you at Autoweek or Autoblog.  No one will let you here.

Cadillacfan,

You don't know what the hell you're talking about!

I haven't signed on as somebody else. I don't need to artificially make it look like people agree/disagree with me. I'm not trolling. I'm not a shill.

If that's all you've got to say, you don't have much to add to a conversation so keep your comments to yourself and let the rest of us enjoy ourselves. Maybe you should stay at Autoweek or Autoblog. I've never registered at those sights, so can't immediately post there.

I already stated that fbodfather confirmed what all of us want - a new Camaro w/ RWD and V8. What more do you want to hear????

Geez!!!!! Or in lingo you might better understand - WTF?????

[w00t_man]

I know that's not true.

But if it is, and if it were ever considered, i know for a FACT that myself and every guy my age (18) around here would disown the Camaro if it was FWD.

You dont have to be over 40 to appreciate heritage.

[Camino LS6]

OK kids, let's play nice. And... read more carefully. bcarr22 is no troll, he was the unwitting victim of some buffoon at the show.

Fbodfather has the right of this,of course, so stop worrying.

bcarr: If you could find out who this person at the show was I'm sure Fbodfather would be grateful.

Finally let's give GM some credit, such an idea would require a level of stupidity not possible in anyone in position to make such decisions.

[Bob]

Posted yesterday on the GM fastlane blog;

"Specifically though, I promise to work on the creation of a line of small, agile, rear-wheel-drive cars. And quite frankly, I can't imagine a front-drive version of Camaro." B)

Find the link to the GM site here...