Camaro tops GM's rwd list; Buick Velite concept, P

[ehaase]

http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?...E/60116001/1041

DETROIT - For General Motors Vice Chairman Robert Lutz, the Chevrolet Camaro concept car tops the list of possible vehicles in the automaker's lineup of mid-priced to premium-priced, rear-drive cars for North America.

GM will select vehicles for the program within six months. Production will begin in 2008 or 2009

[Northstar]

The Buick, Chevrolet, Pontiac and Saturn brands are under consideration for rear-drive models.

Umm, Saturn? Please make sure Buick, Pontiac and Chevy each have at least one RWD car before Saturn gets a green light for one.

The list from suppliers doesn't have any Saturn's though, so maybe they are giving the others their fair share of cars before Saturn:

Buick Velite convertible

Buick flagship sedan

Pontiac Grand Prix

Redesigned Pontiac GTO

Chevrolet Camaro

Chevrolet Impala

That looks very similar to the old Zeta list.

[ichbinjohnk]

Saturn does not need any rear-wheel drive cars, minus the SKY. I say keep the Saturn line-up almost all front-wheel drive.

[Robert Hall]

Hmmm.....suppose, for the sake of argument, that to spread the costs out, GM does go out on a limb and do 4 RWD sedans off this new platform---a Chevy Impala, Pontiac Grand Prix, Saturn something, and a Buick something...yeah, it's a stretch, but theoretically possible.

A large Saturn sedan could be called the Aurora, it fits well with Aura and the space theme of the Saturn name, and would be a link back to Olds which occupied the same place in the hierarchy that Saturn is moving to, or so it seems...

Of course, this is all random blather, sunny day daydreaming....given GM's current condition, I wouldn't be surprised if none of these or other possible RWD models (Camaro, GTO, Velite) appear...it could be in five years that GM (at least as far as C/P/S/B are concerned) is still churning out mostly FWD G-bodies, W-bodies, Epsilons, and Deltas...

Edited January 16, 2006 by moltar

[NOS2006]

Hey, isn't this platform capable of AWD, also?

[Sixty8panther]

Screw Saturn... I could care less what they get. Give us Buick, Chevy & Pontiac guys what the Cadillac guiys have been feasting on as of late wiht the STS & CTS but at a lower price.

A RWD coupe, sedan, wagon & ragtop for each division except for Saturn. Let them just be what the Buick Opels were in the 60s.

[Robert Hall]

Screw Saturn... I could care less what they get. Give us Buick, Chevy & Pontiac guys what the Cadillac guiys have been feasting on as of late wiht the STS & CTS but at a lower price.

A RWD coupe, sedan, wagon & ragtop for each division except for Saturn. Let them just be what the Buick Opels were in the 60s.

Not going to happen. Good daydream, though.

[regfootball]

Saturn does not need any rear-wheel drive cars, minus the SKY.  I say keep the Saturn line-up almost all front-wheel drive.

agreed. optional AWD would be nice.

[regfootball]

Hey, isn't this platform capable of AWD, also?

it better be or the general will be stuck with all sort of dead inventory on the lots in the salt belt from november to april

you should see all the magnums and chargers rotting on the dodge lots around here right about now

Edited January 16, 2006 by regfootball

[NOS2006]

Well I say screw giving Pontiac a Firebird (as many people would like).

Give Pontiac a turbocharged AWD V6 model in the EVO price range with a great suspension. Give us a new GTO on this platform, too. Along with the G8, or whatever it'll be called.

[Ghost Dog]

Hey, isn't this platform capable of AWD, also?

GM vehicles on the global rwd architecture will have long wheel-bases and short overhangs. All-wheel drive will be available. The Camaro and Velite, a convertible concept introduced at the 2004 New York auto show, demonstrate the possibilities for the architecture.

Holden Chose a Very Elaborate, and Expensive AWD system for thier cars.

http://autoweb.drive.com.au/cms/A_55630/newsarticle.html

I think its to much so for Zeta.

Edited January 16, 2006 by Ghost Dog

[Ghost Dog]

This Is Interesting

GM's styling studio has prepared both rear- and front-drive versions of the next Impala, according to an industry source who did not want to be identified.

[sciguy_0504]

The good times are (hopefully) right around the corner.

[ZL-1]

The Saturn would make sense if Opel gets a RWD car that fills the Omega's place. The others seem fine with me.

And speaking of RWD: couldn't Cadillac just try and take a look at shortening a RWD architecture for the 2nd-gen BLS?

EDIT: just read the Opel bit at the end...

Edited January 16, 2006 by ZL-1

[Hogans_Heroes]

The Saturn would make sense if Opel gets a RWD car that fills the Omega's place. The others seem fine with me.

And speaking of RWD: couldn't Cadillac just try and take a look at shortening a RWD architecture for the 2nd-gen BLS?

EDIT: just read the Opel bit at the end...

I really liked the 2003 Insignia concept in Frankfurt. GM should have done all they needed to do to hang onto Martin Smith. That said, - and despite the Saturn / Opel coordination in the future - it's very very hard to imagine Saturn getting a version of this car.

[Ultra Magnus]

I just want to know what they were thinking when they decided Saturn needed a car based on that platform?

[cavalier36]

i wonder where these vehicles would be assembled.. by the looks of it Oshwa ontario is probably going to be the location of assembly.. the next generation Buick Lacrosse will move to the epsilion platform and will be built in lake orion michigan alongside the pontiac G6. after this happens it will be the end of the W platform. as the Impala, and Grand Prix shift to the RWD Zeta platform.. the future of the monte carlo seems to be up in the air, it will be a rebodied next generation GTO, or like the Lacrosse it could shift to the epsilion platform, having both the camaro and monte carlo both RWD probably wont happen, they would compete too much with each other.. its looking like "Zeta" will consist of:

a Buick sedan, it will be positioned between the lacrosse and lucerne, the lacrosse will get smaller as it shifts to the epsilion platform..

the Camaro,

the next generation Pontiac GTO.

the grand prix sedan

Impala sedan

and a Saturn sedan/wagon which will be that brands flagship car and will be slotted above the Aura..

[prototype66]

Is it just me or isn't 09 too late?

didn't solstice hit in 18 months?

And why not retool the Craft Center in lansing?

??????????????????????????????

Edited January 17, 2006 by prototype66

[Imaj]

Hopefully an American built Caprice that would replace the Aussie one in the Middle East..

[Ghost Dog]

Looking at it From a Volume Point Of View.

You Could do three in a 2 Shift 250k plant

Buick flagship sedan 50K-75K

Pontiac Grand Prix 125k

Redesigned Pontiac GTO 50k

And 1 in a single shift plant

Chevrolet Camaro 125k

Buick Velite convertible ( To low volume and to expensive)

Impala- I just Can't see 200k+ Volume on The RWD platform. I think Its Much better served on FWD platform, with a Rear Biased AWD option.

It would Also serve Better to Focus the RWD sales on the Grand Prix. Rather then Splitting it between Grand Prix and Impala.

Although If GTO is a Distinctively Bigger then Camaro, Quad Coupe. I could see a Monte Carlo on that platform.

[staze]

Great news for GM! I wonder how much time they lost with these off and on delays? Now while I am happy for teh GM Siblings, I'll enter the minority here and ask....

What about Saab? Give me a Sonnett General! Give me a direct threat to the CLK and 6 series!

Well, this is only possible only if they don't sell them first.

SN

Edited January 17, 2006 by staze

[Chicagoland]

How can they re-tool a plant that is slated to close in 2 months? GM is pretty much set on all the plants that are listed for closure.

The Oshwa theory for where the Zetas will be built sounds the most realistic. And thank goodness the Pontiac isn't called "G8'!

[76ChevyTrucker]

I really don't think that Saturn needs a rwd car to be based of the Camaro/GTO platform, however, Buick does, badly need one. I say make the Buick VeLite (Although personally, i'd prefer it called a Regal, or GNX). And give Pontiac the redesigned GTO, and a four door counterpart, called the Grand Prix. Give Chevrolet the Camaro and a four door counterpart, called the Chevelle, or even the Impala (I like both names too much to make a hard decision on that right now). Now I konw that I'm not an insider, and I know that the Sky is a rear wheel drive coupe, and personally I believe that is all they should have. The rest should be Import fighters and front wheel drive, but of course I'm not a bean counter up there in the corporate office making these decisions.

[Petra]

I wish they would just make up their mind about this program. It's on, then it's cancelled, then it's still on in Australia but not for N.A, then a Camaro concept debuts, and it's on again, but they can't decide what they want to build with it. They need to do for this what they've done for the GMT's: Throw all available resources at it, make them undisputable class leaders, and get them in production ASAP. It's all or nothing, GM.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

This Is Interesting

GM's styling studio has prepared both rear- and front-drive versions of the next Impala, according to an industry source who did not want to be identified.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, and the styling is based around the '63 model, I believe.

[BuickEight]

It sounds like they really want to build the Velite!

[hyperv6]

Gee, like we did not see this coming. Just glad they are speaking publicly now.

Zeta, GTO, Camaro, Impala, other sedans, 08-09 production all are not suprises.

I am suprised that the Buick Velite has been saved. I never expected it to be mentioned again.

[jbartley]

Looking at it From a Volume Point Of View.

You Could do three in a 2 Shift 250k plant

Buick flagship sedan 50K-75K

Pontiac Grand Prix  125k

Redesigned Pontiac GTO 50k

And 1 in a single shift plant

Chevrolet Camaro  125k

Buick Velite convertible ( To low volume and to expensive)

Impala-  I just Can't see 200k+ Volume on The RWD platform. I think Its Much better served on FWD platform, with a Rear Biased AWD option.

It would Also serve Better to Focus the RWD sales on the Grand Prix. Rather then Splitting it between Grand Prix and Impala.

Although If GTO is a Distinctively Bigger then Camaro, Quad Coupe. I could see a Monte Carlo on that platform.

I agree then Buick & Pontiac have a Coupe OR Conv and a large sedan, with Chevy getting a nice Camaro Coupe. And the Impala can handle the full size market.

If people want a RWD sedan, buy a buick or pontiac. end of story

[enzl]

I find it hard to believe it took the Camaro unveiling for GM to figure out this platform should be greenlighted & front-burnered.

I could see the following off of this Aussie-led platform:

1. Holden 5 dr. (like the one they've been showing for years), built with a 5 dr Saab flagship as an international model.

2. GTO/Camaro built stateside in one of the underutilized truck plants that have recently been revamped.

3. Statesman type sedan goes to Holden and Buick as a 'Roadmaster', reconfigured to be a top flight superluxo cruiser...think Audi version, and you've got a Pontiac Grand Prix/Bonnie replacement.

Just my guess..gotta fit a top-flight Opel in there somewhere as well.

[evok]

Don't get too excited, GM is just thinking out load.

[Houze968]

I find it hard to believe it took the Camaro unveiling for GM to figure out this platform should be greenlighted & front-burnered.

Agreed. I don't believe this was to gauge reaction necessarily, but to start some hype. GM would be complete morons if they needed the unveiling for such a no brainer, Captain Obvious (GM Top Brass) we salute you!

[knightfan26917]

Saturn does not need any rear-wheel drive cars, minus the SKY.  I say keep the Saturn line-up almost all front-wheel drive.

*nods*

I'd agree with this.

I find it sad that Saturn would be granted a 2nd RWD car before the Monte Carlo is produced again.....

Ah, well....

Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker

MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/

Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html

What's it like to buy your favorite car brand new? Wish I knew...

[thegriffon]

Am I reading the same article? The only list I see is what they were considering under Zeta, not the renamed Global Rwd. It appears the next Lacrosse will target the Avalon etc., so an Invicta is unlikely. From the spy shots both the Commodore/Calais and Statesman/Caprice could very easily fit into the Satutn lineup with only minor changes in badging, but I wouldn't expect that either.

[novajeff69]

Someone mentioned that it wouldn't be practical to produce the Impala in RWD on a grand scale. But what if some cheap versions were used again as taxis and police cruisers, similar to the Crown Vic? My brother in law is a NYC cop and he says that most of the guys hate the FWD Impalas. They break all the time. Or if they are nicer than that, they can compete with Town Cars in the livery service.

[Ghost Dog]

I was thinking about. I think the only reason Saturn would get a Big RWD would be That they needed to Fill a Plant volume wise.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

GM is confident that the Camaro will appeal to baby boomers who remember the original. But will it appeal to younger buyers?

It's certainly been a HUGE hit with everyone I've talked to (Just like the Mustang AND Challenger)

I, for one, don't think Saturn should have RWD cars.... Leave Saturn and Saab for FWD and AWD offerings.

We'll already have RWD Cadillacs and Buicks, we don't need euro inspired RWD Saturns hacking sales.... Just like we don't need RWD euro Saturns hacking sales off of a SUPPOSEDLY performance renewed Pontiac and Chevrolet, our volume division.

[RBB]

Someone mentioned that it wouldn't be practical to produce the Impala in RWD on a grand scale.  But what if some cheap versions were used again as taxis and police cruisers, similar to the Crown Vic?  My brother in law is a NYC cop and he says that most of the guys hate the FWD Impalas.  They break all the time.  Or if they are nicer than that, they can compete with Town Cars in the livery service.

The next-gen Malibu is expected to grow in size, correct? Is it possible that Chevy could be considering repositioning it as the bread-and-butter CamCord competitor, and letting the Impala grow into more of a 300C/Charger/500 big car competitor?

-RBB

[cavalier36]

the next generation Malibu will grow in size to better take on the Accord and Camry.. ive heard it looks good even better than the Saturn Aura.. there probably wont be a Maxx version, the maxx will get the axe after the 2007 model year.. what ive heard is the next Malibu, the Pontiac G6, the Saturn Aura and the next gen. Buick Lacrosse will be all be built on the Epsilion platform and will be simular in size, a two door lacrosse is also possible which could mark the return of eiether the Regal or Rivera.. if the Velite isnt green lighted.. the lacrosse will get somewhat smaller because the "zeta" Buick will be slotted inbetween the lacrosse and the lucerne.. a "zeta" Impala will allow it to compete with the dodge charger, ford 500 and crown victoria..

[Ghost Dog]

the next generation Malibu will grow in size to better take on the Accord and Camry.. ive heard it looks good even better than the Saturn Aura.. there probably wont be a Maxx version, the maxx will get the axe after the 2007 model year..  what ive heard is the next Malibu, the Pontiac G6, the Saturn Aura and the next gen. Buick Lacrosse will be all be built on the Epsilion platform and will be simular in size, a two door lacrosse is also possible which could mark the return of eiether the Regal or Rivera.. if the Velite isnt green lighted..  the lacrosse will get somewhat smaller because the "zeta" Buick will be slotted inbetween the lacrosse and the lucerne..  a "zeta" Impala will allow it to compete with the dodge charger, ford 500 and crown victoria..

How does Malibu Grow in Size, to take on Vehicles its the same size as now? It'll be the same size as Aura about 190 inches. Which is about where the Malibu is now.

A Zeta Impala would be a huge loss in sales Volume. Probabley about Half. That Volume would probabley end up in the Avalons pocket.

And they would probabley need to force a Saturn Zeta to Fill a plants volume. That would be the Same old GM story to much capacity for the Platform. Stuck Building something that just does'nt fit becuase they need to maximize the production.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/...S175.A9879.html

Impala's sales were off in 2005, but at 246,481, it again was the best-selling domestic car.

Could any really well run business, change the formula of a success? (Coke not included)

Edited January 19, 2006 by Ghost Dog

[titan]

Why the hell is it such a certainty that a large, RWD, Zeta based Impala be such a flop? I don't think sales would fall in half. It'd still do well, and would cut hard into DCX's LX cars.