07 impala 6speed

[ericguy320]

Who thinks the 6t70 will be in the 07 impala. It seems to be Gm's thing to hold off on the good stuff the first year.

[Paolino]

I'm hoping the 6-speed makes it into the Impala for 07... there are some cars I feel it should be in standard:

2007 w/ 6-Speed Auto:

- Buick LaCrosse

- Buick Lucerne

- Buick Rainier

- Cadillac DTS

- Chevrolet Impala

- Chevrolet Malibu/Maxx SS

- Chevrolet Monte Carlo

- Pontiac G6 GTP

- Pontiac Gran Prix (is it going to be around for 07?)

- Saturn Aura (we know it'll have it)

The 6-speed, combined with the DoD on the 3.9L (if they can get it working without that noise), should improve its fuel economy a bit as well as even get a tad more performance out of the cars.

[ponchoman49]

Who thinks the 6t70 will be in the 07 impala. It seems to be Gm's thing to hold off on the good stuff the first year.

I would be shocked if it showed up in a Chevy that soon. The Aura, yes. Maybe some Caddys. A Chevy, doubtful. Hope i'm wrong.

[JBsZ06]

I would hope GM replaces the A4 tranny with the Six speed automatic as quickly as possible throughout its lineup.

Just doesn't make sense not to convert all A4's to A6's as production capacity of the transmission increases and GM can get it certified...

I would imagine those are two of the larger stumbling blocks..

JMO

[Dsuupr]

I could see the Impala getting the 6 speed just for marketing reasons alone.

[Paolino]

I could see the Impala getting the 6 speed just for marketing reasons alone.

So could I, but then again, I can also see GM cheaping out like they've done so many times before.

[ToniCipriani]

I would be shocked if it showed up in a Chevy that soon. The Aura, yes. Maybe some Caddys. A Chevy, doubtful. Hope i'm wrong.

Cadillac? 6T70? Hell no!

The 6T70 is for FWD!

[ToniCipriani]

BTW, I think Pontiac should get it before Chevy. After all Pontiac is the "performance" brand and it really hasn't living up that name lately too much (minus Solstice GXP).

[vineyard311]

BTW, I think Pontiac should get it before Chevy. After all Pontiac is the "performance" brand and it really hasn't living up that name lately too much (minus Solstice GXP).

True, but GM is so far behind in the transmission department, they should just bring the 6spd out for all of there cars.

[VenSeattle]

Cadillac? 6T70? Hell no!

The 6T70 is for FWD!

Cadillac DTS?

[Paolino]

Cadillac DTS?

You beat me to it! B)

[ToniCipriani]

Well, I envision the DTS to be just a stopgap vehicle. By the time the 6T70 makes it to the market on the masses, it could possibly be gone.

[andretti]

There will never be a six speed auto in a "W" Body.

[Paolino]

Well, I envision the DTS to be just a stopgap vehicle. By the time the 6T70 makes it to the market on the masses, it could possibly be gone.

Isn't the DTS around until 2009? I would pray it made it into a Cadillac before then!

There will never be a six speed auto in a "W" Body.

Really? Isn't the LaCrosse a "W" body? I would hope Buick would put 6-speeds in all their cars to be competitive with the competition which overs 5+ speeds. After all, one constant mention in all reviews is how (and I don't remember the wording), "the four speed works well however is outdated when the competition is offering 5 and 6 speeds."

[andretti]

Isn't the DTS around until 2009?  I would pray it made it into a Cadillac before then!

Really?  Isn't the LaCrosse a "W" body? 

The DTS is not a "W" body.

Yes The LaCrosse is a "W" body but it doesn't have a six speed. GM has made no product promises about six speed autos in LaCrosse. They won't spend the money to modify the "W" bodies to accomodate it.

[Paolino]

The DTS is not a "W" body.

Yes The LaCrosse is a "W" body but it doesn't have a six speed.  GM has made no product promises about six speed autos in LaCrosse.  They won't spend the money to modify the "W" bodies to accomodate it.

I never said the DTS was a "W" body.

And if they're going to modify the car to become the LaCrosse Super, why not throw a 6-speed in it?

[VenSeattle]

Well, I envision the DTS to be just a stopgap vehicle. By the time the 6T70 makes it to the market on the masses, it could possibly be gone.

With the Lucerne & DTS just debuting within the past year, I really don't see them going through their entire life with 4-sp autos. Paoli mentioned 2009, but I'm expecting the DTS & Lucerne through 2010/2011. The LaCrosse should be replaced in 2009 as a 2010 model... then the Lucerne will come a year or so later.

IIRC, the plants that will be making the 6-sps are the same plants that are currently making the 4-sps. As the 6-sp production ramps up, the 4-sp will cease to exist.

[Paolino]

With the Lucerne & DTS just debuting within the past year, I really don't see them going through their entire life with 4-sp autos. Paoli mentioned 2009, but I'm expecting the DTS & Lucerne through 2010/2011. The LaCrosse should be replaced in 2009 as a 2010 model... then the Lucerne will come a year or so later.

IIRC, the plants that will be making the 6-sps are the same plants that are currently making the 4-sps. As the 6-sp production ramps up, the 4-sp will cease to exist.

You're quite right about the replacement possibly being 2010/2011, although I'd like to see it replaced before then. The DTS is absolutely gorgeous, don't get me wrong, but when looking at it, it is still outdated.

The Lucerne I don't see being changed before then though. The LaCrosse we know will get a refresh for 2008, which I'm looking forward to.

[Sixty8panther]

Personally I;m still hping all these FWD cars GM has debued recently are just stop-gaps until the good stuff from Holden arrives.

I could care less what trans the FWD Lucerne, Impala & Monte Get. I'll take a RWD equivelant over that even if it has only an antiquidated TH350.

[/predictable rant]

[VenSeattle]

Personally I;m still hping all these FWD cars GM has debued recently are just stop-gaps until the good stuff from Holden arrives.

I could care less what trans the FWD Lucerne, Impala & Monte Get. I'll take a RWD equivelant over that even if it has only an antiquidated TH350.

[/predictable rant]

Try to learn to LIVE with the fact that millions of people in the US purchase and like their FWD cars. Those are the people who actually comment in topics like this and care what transmissions are going into them. Notice, that CAMRY & AVALON sales have increased since the 300, Charger, & Magnum debuted.

Yes, I know you're being funny ... but realize that not everyone wants RWD.

[Paolino]

Personally I;m still hping all these FWD cars GM has debued recently are just stop-gaps until the good stuff from Holden arrives.

I could care less what trans the FWD Lucerne, Impala & Monte Get. I'll take a RWD equivelant over that even if it has only an antiquidated TH350.

[/predictable rant]

Well, Sixty8, wouldn't you want them to be as successful as they could be now, so GM can afford to really wow us with their replacements?

I don't care if Joe-Blow's car is FWD or RWD... I can understand wanting luxury cars and sports cars to be RWD, but other than that, I don't see the absolute necessity for it that you keep preaching. Then again, the only RWD cars I've ever driven were luxury and sports cars, i.e.: 94 Firebird, 94 & 97 SC400, 94LS400, 2001 S500, 2001 SL500, etc.

[zabolots]

I never said the DTS was a "W" body.

And if they're going to modify the car to become the LaCrosse Super, why not throw a 6-speed in it?

Because they don't need to "modify" anything for the Super. They're just going to stuff the LS4 into it and all that work has already been done for the GP GXP & Imp SS, both of which use a "strengthened" 4T65E. I highly doubt they'd do something different for the LaCrosse when they're all built on the same line.

Edited January 27, 2006 by zabolots

[Paolino]

Well, this area is way beyond my knowledge, but how hard is it to modify a car to put a tranny in with more gears?

I mean, isn't the Hydramatic 6 just a bigger version of the 4?

[Whistler]

I would be shocked if it showed up in a Chevy that soon. The Aura, yes. Maybe some Caddys. A Chevy, doubtful. Hope i'm wrong.

I hope they get it in ALL brands ASAP... I understand that Chevy is the lower of the GM brands, but that doesn't mean they have to be totally behind the curve. Just about EVERY competitor is putting out 5 and 6 speed autos now... Toyota, Honda, Nissan... even Ford. GM needs to get it across the board as fast as they can build them.

[Sixty8panther]

Let's be realistic. The Camry & Avalon will sell no matter what the specs are. People who buy those cars don't know a pancake-4 from a V12.

A rwd Camry would sell, a 3 wheeled Camry wiht 1-wheel drive would sell... a Camry wiht styling bordering on non-existant would sell... (and does!) The Avalon could only get more hideous if it came in Puke green with a buguindy vinyl interior, and even then it would sell.

F*ck it, make the Camry RWD. Then ALL the media wil be convinced that FWD is obsolete and unrefined. 87% of the true enthusiasts I know already think so.

I'm not trying to be a prick but behind my sarcasm was a real message:

Screw the 6-speed. Waht GM really needs is a return to greatness... I don't see full-size FWD Cadillacs, FWD luxury Buicks & FWD Chevy Muscle-Sedans as a part of that equasion.

Edited January 28, 2006 by Sixty8panther

[Whistler]

Well, all I know is that when I try to convince my import loving friends that an Impala is worth considering against a Camry and Accord, it would sure help if the specs at least compete...

[Drew Dowdell]

Well, all I know is that when I try to convince my import loving friends that an Impala is worth considering against a Camry and Accord, it would sure help if the specs at least compete...

303hp v. 260hp or 230hp doesn't compete?

Every car has it's pluses and minuses. The Camry may have a 5 speed, but the 4 speed Impala is smoother shifting. <see the Lucerne v. Avalon>

The Camry is DOHC and the Impala is pushrod.... but the Camry is 210 HP and the Impala is 240hp to 303hp. If you're going cheap, the Camry is 154hp and the Impala is 200hp.

If the entire decision making process for your friend hinges on the number of gears, get a Brother labeler and put a 5 on the Impala's gearshift, they'd never know the difference.

[pow]

Let's be realistic. The Camry & Avalon will sell no matter what the specs are. People who buy those cars don't know a pancake-4 from a V12.

Um, no. Ever since Toyota gave the Avalon a "280" horsepower V-6, more technology, increased interior space, and 31 highway MPG, they sold much, much more than they did with the old, geriatric one.

[VenSeattle]

Um, no. Ever since Toyota gave the Avalon a "280" horsepower V-6, more technology, increased interior space, and 31 highway MPG, they sold much, much more than they did with the old, geriatric one.

Not really true... Toyota sold 104,078 in the last generation's first year (CY2000).

The current Avalon went on sale in February 2005, and Toyota sold 95,318... so it's a wash between the two (the additional (current) 9,000 mthly sales would tie them). CY2006 sales will determine if this one actually has more virility because the last gen slipped to a limp 83,005 by CY2001 and quit performing from that point onward.

[91z4me]

Well, this area is way beyond my knowledge, but how hard is it to modify a car to put a tranny in with more gears?

I mean, isn't the Hydramatic 6 just a bigger version of the 4?

The new 6 speed autos are actually smaller and easier to package. In addition they are something like 20% or more lighter.

BTW there are several different versions of the new autos, just like the current 4 speeds (ranging from 4T40E, 4T60E, 4T65E, 4T80E). And yes I know the 4T80E is unrelated but there will be a HD version of the new FWD 6-speed auto.

[Paolino]

303hp v. 260hp or 230hp doesn't compete?

Every car has it's pluses and minuses.  The Camry may have a 5 speed, but the 4 speed Impala is smoother shifting. <see the Lucerne v. Avalon>

The Camry is DOHC and the Impala is pushrod.... but the Camry is 210 HP and the Impala is 240hp to 303hp. If you're going cheap, the Camry is 154hp and the Impala is 200hp.

If the entire decision making process for your friend hinges on the number of gears, get a Brother labeler and put a 5 on the Impala's gearshift, they'd never know the difference.

Ah, but the Camry now has an available 6-speed 268hp V6. Sure it doesn't compare with the 303hp V8 the Impala has, but it definitely trumps the other 2 available engines. I'm going to take a guess that their V6 is also quieter and smoother than both of those that Chevy offers, aside from being more fuel efficient.

The new 6 speed autos are actually smaller and easier to package.  In addition they are something like 20% or more lighter.

BTW there are several different versions of the new autos, just like the current 4 speeds (ranging from 4T40E, 4T60E, 4T65E, 4T80E).  And yes I know the 4T80E is unrelated but there will be a HD version of the new FWD 6-speed auto.

So this brings me back to my original question: how difficult would it be to throw the 6-speed in some of the cars? Doesn't sound like it would be.

[91z4me]

Ah, but the Camry now has an available 6-speed 268hp V6.  Sure it doesn't compare with the 303hp V8 the Impala has, but it definitely trumps the other 2 available engines.  I'm going to take a guess that their V6 is also quieter and smoother than both of those that Chevy offers, aside from being more fuel efficient.

So this brings me back to my original question:  how difficult would it be to throw the 6-speed in some of the cars?  Doesn't sound like it would be.

It won't be difficult at all. I imagine that right now there are TONS of test models being driven around Detroit, Canada, Australia, Africa, and Europe testing a LOT of motors with the 6 speed autos. Impalas, Malibus, Lambdas, Sigma cars, VEs, Trucks. Basically everything is being tested now or within the next few months.

[Paolino]

It won't be difficult at all. I imagine that right now there are TONS of test models being driven around Detroit, Canada, Australia, Africa, and Europe testing a LOT of motors with the 6 speed autos.  Impalas, Malibus, Lambdas, Sigma cars, VEs, Trucks.  Basically everything is being tested now or within the next few months.

Okay, so this leaves me to believe that the DTS, Lucerne, LaCrosse, maybe Rendezvous and Rainier, will get the 6-speed, and hopefully the Impala/MC will get them as well to be competitive, and of course bring up the numbers on the fuel economy with the 3900. Not to mention they have to get that DoD working right on the 3.9.

[91z4me]

Okay, so this leaves me to believe that the DTS, Lucerne, LaCrosse, maybe Rendezvous and Rainier, will get the 6-speed, and hopefully the Impala/MC will get them as well to be competitive, and of course bring up the numbers on the fuel economy with the 3900.  Not to mention they have to get that DoD working right on the 3.9.

I don't forsee the V8 cars getting the 6 speed at least the first year of the 6 speeds but I do forsee the 3.9 and 3.5 getting it.

[Paolino]

I don't forsee the V8 cars getting the 6 speed at least the first year of the 6 speeds but I do forsee the 3.9 and 3.5 getting it.

You have a point there. However, the V8's in the Impala/MC should have an available 6-speed manual.

[91z4me]

You have a point there.  However, the V8's in the Impala/MC should have an available 6-speed manual.

I don't know that there is a 6 speed manual designed for transverse FWD usage that will hold up to the power of the LS4 in existance. Also that would throw the DOD right out the window, how would the computer know when to activate DOD when you do the shifting?

[Paolino]

I don't know that there is a 6 speed manual designed for transverse FWD usage that will hold up to the power of the LS4 in existance.  Also that would throw the DOD right out the window, how would the computer know when to activate DOD when you do the shifting?

Never thought of that. Good points 91z

[trinacriabob]

I have to laugh at all this talk about how many gears in the auto trans.

I just had my GM car's 4 spd auto trans serviced at a blended dealership that has some high line European imports. True, the 6 speed is the order of the day with those cars.

Now, I am thinking. In 70s and 80s cars, when you had to overhaul a 3-spd rear drive auto trans, it cost less than $ 700. A 4-spd trans costs about twice that ...which I don't want to experience and that's why I service my trans fluid and filter every 20,000 miles.

So, how much would it cost to overhaul to 5 or 6 speed automatic transmission or transaxle? Now, do you still want one?

Edited January 28, 2006 by trinacriabob

[Paolino]

I have to laugh at all this talk about how many gears in the auto trans.

I just had my GM car's 4 spd auto trans serviced at a blended dealership that has some high line European imports.  True, the 6 speed is the order of the day with those cars.

Now, I am thinking.  In 70s and 80s cars, when you had to overhaul a 3-spd rear drive auto trans, it cost less than $ 700.  A 4-spd trans costs about twice that ...which I don't want to experience and that's why I service my trans fluid and filter every 20,000 miles.

So, how much would it cost to overhaul to 5 or 6 speed automatic transmission or transaxle?  Now, do you still want one?

How often do you overhaul your transmission? I have never experienced that. Sure, it happens, but seriously, I rather take some extra fuel economy and performance for the life of the car, over the "risk" of one day having to fix the tranny.

Now, maybe some people hold onto their cars longer than I do, but I think if I hold onto a car for 8-10 years (and in this case, I'm currently driving a 14-year-old car with its original transmission), and never had to replace/rebuild the tranny, then I've made out fairly well.

God, now you made me do it.. you made me jinx myself. You know Monday morning when I drive to work the car won't shift out of first, you realize this!

[Paolino]

So when will we find out which cars the 6-speed auto will go into?

[Drew Dowdell]

Ah, but the Camry now has an available 6-speed 268hp V6.  Sure it doesn't compare with the 303hp V8 the Impala has, but it definitely trumps the other 2 available engines.  I'm going to take a guess that their V6 is also quieter and smoother than both of those that Chevy offers, aside from being more fuel efficient.

The key word is "available". If you're going by "available" engines, the Impala wins. If the only other engine is a 180hp 4-cylinder, then the Impala still wins because it's "lesser" engines are still better then the "lesser" Camry engine. Quieter and smoother.... that can be a plus or a minus. Do you really want quieter in a sport oriented Impala?

Again, every cars has it's pluses and minuses. Even with the redesigned Camry, I think the Impala more then holds it's own.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't know that there is a 6 speed manual designed for transverse FWD usage that will hold up to the power of the LS4 in existance.  Also that would throw the DOD right out the window, how would the computer know when to activate DOD when you do the shifting?

3 little words. Throttle Position Sensor.

That's how they do it now.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm curious as to why the 500/Montego have the 6-speed now, but the GM cars don't. Aren't they using the same Ford-GM developed unit?

[Paolino]

I'm curious as to why the 500/Montego have the 6-speed now, but the GM cars don't.  Aren't they using the same Ford-GM developed unit?

From what people have told me here is that it's not the same transmission they're developing with GM. It's one they purchased. Silly Ford... trying to go out of their way to be competitive! They should take a note from GM and stick with their 4 speeds!

[Drew Dowdell]

From what people have told me here is that it's not the same transmission they're developing with GM.  It's one they purchased. Silly Ford... trying to go out of their way to be competitive!  They should take a note from GM and stick with their 4 speeds! 

At least they were smart enough to not develop their own. Automatic transmissions are not something Ford is particularly good at.

[91z4me]

3 little words. Throttle Position Sensor.

That's how they do it now.

Yeah but would you have DOD active or passive when partly on the clutch? What % of clutch play vs Throttle input requires DOD to turn off? See that is what I am getting at.

[Paolino]

At least they were smart enough to not develop their own. Automatic transmissions are not something Ford is particularly good at.

LOL, that's what my brother and I say! Every single person I know who owned a first gen Taurus had to rebuild their tranny!

[Drew Dowdell]

Yeah but would you have DOD active or passive when partly on the clutch?  What % of clutch play vs Throttle input requires DOD to turn off?  See that is what I am getting at.

I'm sure they could figure it out. It doesn't sound terribly complicated as to deciding when you need power or not.

[91z4me]

LOL, that's what my brother and I say!  Every single person I know who owned a first gen Taurus had to rebuild their tranny!

Hi, my name is Casey, I had a 88 Sable and a 90 Taurus. My father bought both new and the 88 went for 239K miles with no drivetrain problems till the oil pump failed and we sold it to a friend who rebuilt the motor and drove it another 60K before selling it. Our 90 Taurus had no problems besides the horn honking at random intervals. Now you can say you know someone who didn't have their tranny rebuilt.

[Paolino]

Hi, my name is Casey, I had a 88 Sable and a 90 Taurus.  My father bought both new and the 88 went for 239K miles with no drivetrain problems till the oil pump failed and we sold it to a friend who rebuilt the motor and drove it another 60K before selling it.  Our 90 Taurus had no problems besides the horn honking at random intervals.  Now you can say you know someone who didn't have their tranny rebuilt.

Okay, so then I'll say more than half the people I know who have owned Taurus' have had their trannies rebuilt.