Oil Changes?

[ToniCipriani]

OK, this is somewhat a debate between my friend and me. He drives a Mazda 3, and he says that the oil used in his engine, his friend's BMW 325i and mine are all different, just because the manufacturer specifies different oil change schedules. His is max 8 months, mine is max 6 months, and the Bimmer 1 year. Thus he insists that his car's oil change must be only done at Mazda dealers.

I argued that the oils are actually the same thing, unless it's synthetic from factory, which I highly doubt. The only difference between them is the viscosity. The manufacturer schedules are set out as guidelines, and as long as we know how to reset the oil life system (if equipped), and the oil used it of correct viscosity, it doesn't matter where we change the oil. And as long as we don't leave the oil running too long and turn bad, we don't have to follow the schedule strictly.

Which of us is correct?

Edited January 15, 2006 by ToniCipriani

[Sixty8panther]

I'm pretty sure Mazda does not drill for and blend their own oil. OF course you're correct.

Tell him to shut up, grab a ratchet with a 15mm socket and get to work instead of making excuses.... the oil he needs can be found at any Autozone or Advanced Auto.

Geezus Mazda's 70% Ford these days, not like it's a 1920s Rolls Royce runnig on whale oil.

Edited January 15, 2006 by Sixty8panther

[Drew Dowdell]

Well the 5W-30 Mobile One that the Cadillac dealer puts in my car is for Cadillacs only. If you put it in anything else the engine will blow up.

Now there ARE cars that take very odd oil specs. My boyfriend's Passat V6 takes some weird weight that only comes in synthetic <that I can find> and is listed as heavy duty diesel engine oil.

Here's a plan, call the dealer where he gets his Mazda serviced. Find out what brand oil they use. It'll be one of the big companys... Pennzoil, Mobile, Quaker State, etc.

[Sixty8panther]

Oldsmoboi:

Didn't you hear? It's actualy Blubber oil from Baby Seals, that's why William Ford III is busy clubbing so many of them.

[rkmdogs]

OK, this is somewhat a debate between my friend and me. He drives a Mazda 3, and he says that the oil used in his engine, his friend's BMW 325i and mine are all different, just because the manufacturer specifies different oil change schedules. His is max 8 months, mine is max 6 months, and the Bimmer 1 year. Thus he insists that his car's oil change must be only done at Mazda dealers.

I argued that the oils are actually the same thing, unless it's synthetic from factory, which I highly doubt. The only difference between them is the viscosity. The manufacturer schedules are set out as guidelines, and as long as we know how to reset the oil life system (if equipped), and the oil used it of correct viscosity, it doesn't matter where we change the oil. And as long as we don't leave the oil running too long and turn bad, we don't have to follow the schedule strictly.

Which of us is correct?

Toni,

I think your friend was in line when they were handing out "dumb" pills.

Oil, or rather lubrication is a somewhat complex subject that is probably beyond

90-95% of us, with all the variables to consider.

It is the engine designer that has to sort these out, for their application, but

the manual recommendations are written by PR people or tech writers, who wouldn't know 10w-30 from crude if you gave to them in $100bill cups!

Selection of viscosity has to do with engine clearances, temperature, weather,

wear and a host of other factors.

The schedules are guidelines to function as CYA, and prevent warranty claims!

Oil never "turns bad", it still lubricates as long as it hasn't broken down from heat

or oxidation. The problem is contamination! The products of combustion are water

and soot. Some of this gets into the oil, at various times when the engine is running. The other factor is, engine wear! As an engine runs, microscopic particles

of the metals at the moving surfaces are scraped off, and deposited into the

oil as it lubricates these moving parts.

The reason for oil change is to remove the oil containing these contaminates, to

prevent more wear, or in the worst case-- seizure, due to no lubrication!

Driving conditions are probably the best scale to use to determine when to change oil. Short trips, stop & go driving, idling long times, cold weather, severe use(i.e.,-towing) are factors that contribute to the most wear and therefore require a more

frequent change.

Moderate weather, long-haul highway driving, complete warm-ups, are factors that minimize engine wear.

The arbitrary time intervals published in the various handbooks are mainly

to prevent worst case situations from damaging the engine, when the manufacturer would be either liable, or subject to bad publicity, like the Toyota case with the sludge problems.

Use common sense, and evaluate your driving situations; then act accordingly.

Back to you, on the soapbox.......... :AH-HA_wink:

[ToniCipriani]

I have a friend taking Fluid Dynamics, maybe I should ask him or the MechEs :AH-HA_wink:

Edited January 16, 2006 by ToniCipriani

[Sixty8panther]

The arbitrary time intervals published in the various handbooks are mainly

to prevent worst case situations from damaging the engine, when the manufacturer would be either liable, or subject to bad publicity, like the Toyota case with the sludge problems.

Just wondering, are you saying Toyota was not at fault for the Sludge SNAFU?

[pow]

OK, this is somewhat a debate between my friend and me. He drives a Mazda 3, and he says that the oil used in his engine, his friend's BMW 325i and mine are all different, just because the manufacturer specifies different oil change schedules. His is max 8 months, mine is max 6 months, and the Bimmer 1 year. Thus he insists that his car's oil change must be only done at Mazda dealers.

I argued that the oils are actually the same thing, unless it's synthetic from factory, which I highly doubt. The only difference between them is the viscosity. The manufacturer schedules are set out as guidelines, and as long as we know how to reset the oil life system (if equipped), and the oil used it of correct viscosity, it doesn't matter where we change the oil. And as long as we don't leave the oil running too long and turn bad, we don't have to follow the schedule strictly.

Which of us is correct?

It doesn't matter where the service is performed, as long as the type of oil used is correct. BMW uses 5W30 synthetic from the factory, and Mazda probably uses 5W20 dino or something. With that said, some manufacturers may void the warranty when an engine problem comes up and you can't produce the evidence of the oil changes.

Edited January 16, 2006 by empowah

[CARBIZ]

It CAN matter a great deal where your oil changes are done. Just had a customer call up from a Canadian Tire. The guy has a 2003 Venture that has never seen the inside of a dealer, but now Can. Tire claims he has no coolant and the intake gasket is cracked. I told him to immediately contact our service department while I was inwardly shaking my head.

This is why Toyota does so much better than us: their customers are programmed to bring the vehicle in every 3 months. This guy has done his own oil changes (perfectly legit under GM's warranty guidelines - but a big mistake in my view) and the van has never been to a dealer. Now, a small leak has turned into a big headache and he better be able to prove that all warranty maintenance has been done for the past two years or he may have a problem.

The guy probably saved $5 on each oil change..............

[rkmdogs]

Just wondering, are you saying Toyota was not at fault for the Sludge SNAFU?

Definitely no! That problem, and I have not seen a clear-cut report on the

investigation, probably occurred due to poor internal ventilation, brought about

by the stringent evaporations requirements to prevent air pollution. Somehow

water vapor was being trapped, 'cause sludge is nothing more than congealed

oil and water. But when it dries out......... then it is called T-R-O-U-B-L-E!

That in all likelyhood is a internal design problem, that never should have made production, but hey! you know that the final test fleet of any manufacturer is

the cars bought by its' customers!

[rkmdogs]

It CAN matter a great deal where your oil changes are done.  Just had a customer call up from a Canadian Tire.  The guy has a 2003 Venture that has never seen the inside of a dealer, but now Can. Tire claims he has no coolant and the intake gasket is cracked.    The guy probably saved $5 on each oil change..............

What has oil changes, their intervals or where they are done have to do with a

loss of coolant and/or a cracked gasket?

That has to do with periodic inspection for problems in an overall service plan.

A lot of "quickie" oil change places claim to perform these service inspections,

but I have seen many flagrant omissions of some very obvious things done by them, and dealerships as well!

I concur that the oil change time is an excellent one to perform these other inspections, but that still begs the question of does the inspector know what to look at?

In this day & age, the average car owner may not, since so many things are

"buried" in the engine compartment. The other factor is product general

technical knowledge---- and that one is sorely lacking in most of today's

average car owners!

Smoky Yunick, one of the most respected racing mechanics that ever lived once

wrote in his book that if his car broke down on the road, with the complexity

of todays' drive train systems, he could not do a quick-fix without proper

sophisticated, diagnostic equipment!

That's why I lament that people buy cars today, and some don't even know how to open the hood!....................

[ToniCipriani]

Dealers sometimes ain't that great either. In my last oil change, I went to a Pontiac dealer instead of my usual Chevy dealer, because their schedule was full. They cracked my oil plug, or whatever they call it. It's not covered by warranty (they claim), and they made me pay for it. They said they can't screw it back on. But I got stupid there, they did sound like they're cheating me. How did they manage to keep the changed oil in the engine with a broken plug? Oh well...

That's the only bad experience I've had with dealers. I'm not taking my car to that dealer ever again, even if my car is a Pontiac. I'm taking it back to my Chevy dealer.

But anyhow, my friend now understands the insides of oil changes. But since his car is still brand new like mine, we're still taking our cars back to our dealers, since if anything happens, we have someone to yell at.

Edited January 22, 2006 by ToniCipriani

[trinacriabob]

I'm not an expert and I've heard all the debates.

Once you got past the warranty Mr. Goodwrench regimen, I switched to Castrol GTX 10W-30 (kept the viscosity the same) and have NEVER changed. That means, if I go to an oil change place that doesn't carry Castrol, I bring in my oil and get a credit of a few bucks. I also change it every 2,500 miles...cheap insurance.

I would err on the side of caution and pick a brand/viscosity and stick with it. Also, the 7,500 mile interval seen in the owner's manual is CRAP....it's because they want you to buy a new car sooner than later. Again, do it often....cheap insurance.

[rkmdogs]

Dealers sometimes ain't that great either. In my last oil change, I went to a Pontiac dealer instead of my usual Chevy dealer, because their schedule was full. They cracked my oil plug, or  whatever they call it. It's not covered by warranty (they claim), and they made me pay for it. They said they can't screw it back on. But I got stupid there, they did sound like they're cheating me. How did they manage to keep the changed oil in the engine with a broken plug? Oh well...

Toni,

It sounds like you were really, "had", so to speak. Like changing the air in your tires, 'cause it is worn out.

I wish that you had asked to see the "cracked plug", 'cause it is a solid steel part!

What usually happens more times than not, the lot boy--- who does the oil changes between car washes, cross-threaded the plug while putting it back in.

This happens alot, and then the plug, or the crankcase threads get stripped, and

you have a humongous leak!

If it was the plug that stripped, and the oilpan was not damaged, then the fix is a new oilplug. But if the pan hole threads got stripped----- then you have big problems! Usually requires re-threading the pan, with oversize thread, or an insert

if possible, and then a new plug to correspond to the new thread dimensions.

Either way, it should be the dealers' responsibility for their error, and you should not have to pay! Now, most States have laws that if a part is being replaced,

for whatever a reason, the servicing business MUST offer to give the old part

back to you prior to disposal, so that you can assess the defect claimed.

They not only saw you coming, they saw the flashing neon sign on your forehead,

claiming "sucker".

I totally agree, don't go to that place for service ever again --- send your worst enemy there!

[ToniCipriani]

Toni,

It sounds like you were really, "had", so to speak. Like changing the air in your tires, 'cause it is worn out.

I wish that you had asked to see the "cracked plug", 'cause it is a solid steel part!

What usually happens more times than not, the lot boy--- who does the oil changes between car washes, cross-threaded the plug while putting it back in.

This happens alot, and then the plug, or the crankcase threads get stripped, and

you have a humongous leak!

If it was the plug that stripped, and the oilpan was not damaged, then the fix is a new oilplug. But if the pan hole threads got stripped----- then you have big problems! Usually requires re-threading the pan, with oversize thread, or an insert

if possible, and then a new plug to correspond to the new thread dimensions.

Either way, it should be the dealers' responsibility for their error, and you should not have to pay! Now, most States have laws that if a part is being replaced,

for whatever a reason, the servicing business MUST offer to give the old part

back to you prior to disposal, so that you can assess the defect claimed.

They not only saw you coming, they saw the flashing neon sign on your forehead,

claiming "sucker".

I totally agree, don't go to that place for service ever again --- send your worst enemy there!

I asked them to give the plug back to me. They said they tossed it, and gave me a dirty oil filter instead. That's why I'm so pissed about that dealer.

[rkmdogs]

I asked them to give the plug back to me. They said they tossed it, and gave me a dirty oil filter instead. That's why I'm so pissed about that dealer.

Depending on your degree of energy, I would report this flagrant violation of

the consumer fraud laws to the manager at the dealership, and ask for your money back, or report them to your States Attorney's office under the consumer

protection laws.

I had a dealership try to pull a shady deal on me once, ----- and it cost them a

brand-new engine, enforced by the States Attorney, if they wanted to stay in business!

[ToniCipriani]

Depending on your degree of energy, I would report this flagrant violation of

the consumer fraud laws to the manager at the dealership, and ask for your money back, or report them to your States Attorney's office under the consumer

protection laws.

I had a dealership try to pull a shady deal on me once, ----- and it cost them a

brand-new engine, enforced by the States Attorney, if they wanted to stay in business!

I'm not in a "State", per se. :AH-HA_wink:

I sold (or returned) the car in question already, and it's only 5 bucks. So I'd let it go...

Thanks for the advice though. I'll bear that in mind if it happens again.

Edited January 24, 2006 by ToniCipriani

[I hope GMRULES again]

What has oil changes, their intervals or where they are done have to do with a

loss of coolant and/or a cracked gasket?

That has to do with periodic inspection for problems in an overall service plan.

A lot of "quickie" oil change places claim to perform these service inspections,

but I have seen many flagrant omissions of some very obvious things done by them, and dealerships as well!

I think he means if this Van would of been serviced at the dealer there is a better chance this problem would have been noticed before it was too late. I know both my local dealers routinely check the intake manifold gasket on every 3.4 they service. Chances are the local wal mart oil change guy doesn't know the weak spots on different cars.

[rkmdogs]

I know both my local dealers routinely check the intake manifold gasket on every 3.4 they service. Chances are the local wal mart oil change guy doesn't know the weak spots on different cars.

I'm confused! How do you check a gasket..... until you make an observation of

evidence that it IS leaking!

.... Or are you saying that since they look for evidence of a leak, and not observing any, presume the gasket is O.K., and not leaking?

That rationale is far from 100%! Many leaks do not show signs of their leakage..

until damage has been done!

However, I do agree with you, that the chances of a dealership employee finding

a problem are better than the high-school kid, working at the Quickie-Lube joint

part-time finding it.

This can all lead back to owner observations, if they would take the time to learn

what their vehicle is supposed to look like...... and then take the time to

check it themselves, occassionally!

[76ChevyTrucker]

All right, I'm going to stand on my soap box on this one. I do all my own vehicle service, and by service I mean changing the oil, checking the engine for compression with a proper compression test gauge, making sure that there are no leaks and no evidence of oil in the cooling system, or water in the lubrication system, and if there are zerk fittings (grease fittings for those of you whom might not understand) I will regrease the part every single time I change the oil at 3,000 miles. Also I've torn down engines and rebuilt them several times, each time using a Chilton or Haynes repair manual, or if applicable the service manual from a dealership (but god those are damned expensive). Each time the engines have run until something in them breaks due to unorthodox usage, or a crappy part. My oil of choice is CarQuest 10W30 (really Valvoline oil, just in a CarQuest bottle), and all my engines run smooth, clean and without problems. But thats just me and my father and grandfather cut my mechanical teeth on a '76 Chevy pickup with a 350, a '86 Chevy Celebrity with a 2.8, a 89 Chevy S10 Blazer with the 4.3.....so I learned what to do and what not to do with them and under their supervision. At the same time, I guess that's why all my friends and family members bring their cars and trucks to me to be serviced and worked on whenever they break, or reach their (self imposed, or book imposed) service intervals.