question for the homeowners

[ocnblu]

Does anyone have any experience with different types of siding? Sure, aluminum is old-skool, and vinyl is ubiquitous, but what about fiber cement siding? Does anyone have any knowledge of it? Is it expensive, and if so, is it worth it? Does the color stand up to time, or does it have to be painted after a while? Thanks!

[SAmadei]

I'm considering it for the one house... Aluminum is too expensive and it dents. Vinyl is just cheap and cheap looking, IMHO.

The Cement fiberboard is more than vinyl, but it lasts a long time and looks like a premium material compared to vinyl and aluminum... and it requires painting... but its such a stable product (compared to wood) and with good adhesion (compared to aluminum or vinyl), so the paint lasts a good time. Comes in some nice styles, too.

Unless I'm really low on funds, the house will get fiber cement.

[z28luvr01]

Siding materials come in a variety of textures/styles. You can get simulated shakes, stones, or bricks in addition to the traditional clapboard styles. You don't have to paint any of these, but I beliece they're more than traditional vinyl siding.

Would you be doing the install yourself, or would you contract out?

[ocnblu]

I'd be contracting out. I was looking at the stuff sold by Lowe's, James Hardie fiber cement. It comes with a 50-year product warranty and a 15-year finish warranty, which, if the stuff is colored through (if it isn't it should be), why the low finish warranty time? I was also looking at Georgia-Pacific Cedar Lane Select vinyl in a Dutch Lap style. The Cedar Lane is thicker than G-P's other vinyls. I am interested in continuing with a maintenance-free exterior.

The vinyl siding on the houses in my development doesn't seem to have been installed correctly. For example, after a wind storm, a piece of siding on the front of my house slides sideways, leaving a gap at a joint. I have to periodically slide it back into position. Isn't vinyl siding supposed to be locked together, preventing movement? I'm no expert, so I'm asking.

If the government subsidizes energy-efficient home improvements in the coming months, I am wondering if wrapping a house and residing it will qualify for help. It's also soon going to be time for a roof. These houses were built circa 1986.

Edited December 13, 2009 by ocnblu

[SAmadei]

The vinyl siding on the houses in my development doesn't seem to have been installed correctly. For example, after a wind storm, a piece of siding on the front of my house slides sideways, leaving a gap at a joint. I have to periodically slide it back into position. Isn't vinyl siding supposed to be locked together, preventing movement? I'm no expert, so I'm asking.

Yeah, its supposed to lock.

Thats only the start with Vinyl... usually I see it installed too tight... and it buckles when it expands. Ugh. Or people BBQ near it and it melts. Whoops.

[Croc]

Vinyl and aluminum siding are super cheap, and not in a thrifty way. Go for the cement siding.

[balthazar]

Aluminum siding : I didn't think they made this anymore. I haven't seen an aluminum-clad house that was newer than, say, the 1970s.

Vinyl siding : there's nothing remotely wrong with vinyl. It's molded in color- no maintenance or paint here. It's cost-effective, and in a thrifty way. A number you can get with form-fitting foam that'll add a bit of R-value and keep the vertical seams tighter.

Yes- it's hung via nails, but the nail holes are usually slots, so I could see a loosely-nailed piece moving horizontally. I have not seen siding that locks together- the nature of installing it in various lengths would seem to prevent that; IDK.

Hardie board is good stuff, but it's relatively expensive, and more expensive to install (takes longer). It holds paint very well (better than wood) but does have to be repainted at intervals. I would think it would have less R-value than foam-backed vinyl, but you'd have to check that.

If I were to build a new house, I would strongly consider cedar clapboard siding. More maintenance & a LOT more $, but I like the look, esp when you can add some detail around the corners & eaves. Too much work to re-paint, tho. Happily, I love the look of a paint-peeling old house, one that looks like a 99 yr old man might have died in, 25 years ago, and no one bothered to check.

Oh; don't forget to consider Insul-Brick, the classiest of siding options.

[Robert Hall]

Go for a southwestern look with beige stucco and a red tile roof. (suburban Phoenix is like that, with varying shades of beige, w/ brown trim).

[daves87rs]

Go for a southwestern look with beige stucco and a red tile roof. (suburban Phoenix is like that, with varying shades of beige, w/ brown trim).

Hmmm...

[Robert Hall]

Hmmm...

Got to admit, it would look distinctive in PA. Not sure if the palm trees and cactus would work in that climate, though.

[balthazar]

There's a few of those 'hacienda'-look houses here in Jersey - blorf! And somehow, because it's so far removed from it's native georgraphic area, it comes off as cheesy to me.

[Robert Hall]

There's a few of those 'hacienda'-look houses here in Jersey - blorf! And somehow, because it's so far removed from it's native geographic area, it comes off as cheesy to me.

Yeah, I can understand that. A few blocks for me there is a house designed and trimmed like a Swiss chalet, complete w/ palm trees. Now those look great in the rolling hills of Sugarcreek, Ohio (which has a lot of Swiss style buildings and was settled by Swiss and German immigrants), but in Arizona, a bit strange...

[balthazar]

I find myself up on the roof at infrequent & impulsive intervals, and I've heard you cannot walk on those clay tiles. I wouldn't like that.

[Robert Hall]

I find myself up on the roof at infrequent & impulsive intervals, and I've heard you cannot walk on those clay tiles. I wouldn't like that.

That's probably true..I don't think they are load bearing. My (my sister's) house here has an asphalt shingled roof w/ the A/C on top, newer houses w/ the RTRs have the A/C on the ground, so less need to go on the roof.

[balthazar]

A/C on the roof of a residential house ?? This a condo/ townhouse sort of thing ? Weird, otherwise.

-- -- -- -- --

And you are assigning logical reasons to go up on a roof, which eliminates the non-logical, fun reasons.

[Robert Hall]

A/C on the roof of a residential house ?? This a condo/ townhouse sort of thing ? Weird, otherwise.

-- -- -- -- --

And you are assigning logical reasons to go up on a roof, which eliminates the non-logical, fun reasons.

A/C on the roof is very common in Arizona, at least on houses built up into the '80s. Don't know when it became common to put them on the ground. They are set in place w/ a crane... saw my neighbor's new unit installed last spring, a nice little 3.5 ton capacity model, a bit undersized, IMHO (we have a 5 ton one).

Edited December 14, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

Seen plenty of commercial installations on roofs (serviced one, too)- as that keeps them away from the public/damage & most commercial buildings have flat roofs. 10-4 on AZ roofs likely being commonly flat, too. But with the necc pitched roofs here in NJ, no residential rooftop A/C units that I've ever seen.

[Robert Hall]

Seen plenty of commercial installations on roofs (serviced one, too)- as that keeps them away from the public/damage & most commercial buildings have flat roofs. 10-4 on AZ roofs likely being commonly flat, too. But with the necc pitched roofs here in NJ, no residential rooftop A/C units that I've ever seen.

Many are flat (esp. the stucco adobe style), but all the roofs in my neighborhood are pitched, so the A/C sits near the peak of the roof on it's own little platform.

[A Horse With No Name]

Fiber Cement Hardie siding is good stuff...my sister used it when she remodeled and the stuff works great.

Chris

[balthazar]

>>"so the A/C sits near the peak of the roof on it's own little platform."<<

I'd be curious to see a typical pic of this, if you are so inclined. Seems like a big waste of money, as far as I can imagine.

[Robert Hall]

>>"so the A/C sits near the peak of the roof on it's own little platform."<<

I'd be curious to see a typical pic of this, if you are so inclined. Seems like a big waste of money, as far as I can imagine.

Given the sustained heat in AZ summers, it's worth every penny. That's apparently the way they built them back in the day..I'll look for a pic.

[Croc]

Aluminum Siding:

Do you get hail?

Vinyl Siding:

This siding melted and warped, even though it was on the shaded east side of the property.

Wood Siding:

Cement Siding:

What I can tell you is this: wood and cement siding have the potential to add the most resale value to your home, with wood having more "character," but cement siding being relatively maintenance-free yet having a much more premium look than vinyl or aluminum.

Personally, I prefer wood, but cement would do...I'd stay away from vinyl or aluminum as they're cheap, and most often look it, too.

[Robert Hall]

I like wood and brick... I'd really like some rough-hewn stonework, at least on the front of my next house. The cement looks pretty interesting, wasn't aware of such siding.

[Drew Dowdell]

My house is stone and stucco as I have a tudor style house. The "beams" in the stucco are covered with aluminum flashing.

[Justin Bimmer]

I guess this type of A/C goes right into the duct work rather then having to use an airbox split system like homes with A/Cs on the ground.

[Robert Hall]

I guess this type of A/C goes right into the duct work rather then having to use an airbox split system like homes with A/Cs on the ground.

Yes, that's similar to my setup...it even has some of the ductwork on the outside of the roof. The ductwork is probably as old as the house (1952) but the A/C unit is less than 5 yrs old.

[2005 EquinoxLS]

Vinyl is the most common here but quite a lot of the 1960's and 1970's houses or houses that were resided then have aluminum. The vinly on both our houses never looked like what was in the picture. And ours were done correctly so it didnt warp. Only bad thing was the light blue on the garage at the old place faded pretty bad. But the grey that was on the old house and the light brown on the new held up a lot better. Wood just rots in due time or turns grey. Plus then you have to paint it. People here look for maintenence free.

Edited December 14, 2009 by 2005 EquinoxLS

[z28luvr01]

Croc, I'd love to know where that house is with the warped/melted vinyl. I've never seen anything like that before. I wouldn't dare try vinyl in the southwest, but it's pretty commonplace here in NY and the northeast/mid Atlantic. It does hold up fairly well, except in the cold where it can get brittle and crack if something hits it just right, and if that does happen the repair is very simple.

[Robert Hall]

Maybe someone used their BBQ grill to close to the side of the house to melt the vinyl siding..

[balthazar]

That 'after' pic of the vinyl siding clearly was the result of fire or other extreme heat, not sunshine or even a grille. It's NOT that fragile, sorry.

Also, the 'after' pic of the wood siding shows asphalt siding, not wood.

Wood varies depending on the type & quality. My brother moved into a house built in '36, the rear & one side had about 10% paint left on it- the rest was bare, but it was not rotten. I doubt it had been painted previously since the '70s- maybe longer. Likely slow-growth cedar : that stuff lasts forever. (He has since painted everything & it looks great).

Perhaps some Hardie board comes in some colors, but all of it I've seen is light grey (like concrete) - unless you love that; it gets painted and thusly, has to get repainted (but as less frequent intervals than wood). Stains last longer than paints on wood- might be a wash there (stained cedar vs. Hardie).

-- -- -- -- --

I still see no advantage to a pitched roof-top A/C unit. It costs much more to install it, it's unsightly, you have to access the roof to service it, and you run the risk of leaks over time. This has to be an outgrowth of a no-basement or no ground-level room situation, because the logic of it escapes me. Put it on the ground and be done with it.

[Robert Hall]

-- -- -- -- --

I still see no advantage to a pitched roof-top A/C unit. It costs much more to install it, it's unsightly, you have to access the roof to service it, and you run the risk of leaks over time. This has to be an outgrowth of a no-basement or no ground-level room situation, because the logic of it escapes me. Put it on the ground and be done with it.

It's one of those things that is just the way it is. Maybe because most houses built here don't have basements (concrete slab foundation). Maybe it's a gravity thing.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

Right: 'no basement' is the only logic I can see, because putting a primarily metal A/C unit up top in full direct sunlight isn't going to help your bill any.

[Robert Hall]

Right: 'no basement' is the only logic I can see, because putting a primarily metal A/C unit up top in full direct sunlight isn't going to help your bill any.

Ya...this summer had only 3 months in a row where the electric bill was over $400..

[Camino LS6]

I love the look of cedar siding - naturally aged.

I hate paint and synthetic colors/materials.

Even better is redwood.

[Drew Dowdell]

Right: 'no basement' is the only logic I can see, because putting a primarily metal A/C unit up top in full direct sunlight isn't going to help your bill any.

Now see..... you just stirred the 4 generations of inventors in me. I'd put it up on the roof in the direct sunlight and attach a Stirling engine to the compressor and fan somehow. The hotter it gets the faster the Stirling engine spins.

[balthazar]

Well, since you aren't working on the C&G wiki , get busy with those patent drawings !!

[A Horse With No Name]

-- -- -- -- --

I still see no advantage to a pitched roof-top A/C unit. It costs much more to install it, it's unsightly, you have to access the roof to service it, and you run the risk of leaks over time. This has to be an outgrowth of a no-basement or no ground-level room situation, because the logic of it escapes me. Put it on the ground and be done with it.

Vandalism...I've replaced stuff that has been damaged due to theft or vandalism on the ground.

Other than that...yeah...pretty much the roof.

And croc, love the pics of the cement and wood siding. Stuck with vynal here, as our neighborhood as an "association" and our home is only 8 years old. But if I ever build, it's Hardieplank or real wood.

...and balthazar...about your bro's house...lots of older homes here in Columbus were built with good quality redwood siding in the 20's through the 40's...stuff is holding up great.

Chris

[Croc]

Croc, I'd love to know where that house is with the warped/melted vinyl. I've never seen anything like that before. I wouldn't dare try vinyl in the southwest, but it's pretty commonplace here in NY and the northeast/mid Atlantic. It does hold up fairly well, except in the cold where it can get brittle and crack if something hits it just right, and if that does happen the repair is very simple.

I just did a google search trying to find "good" and "bad" examples of everything. Couldn't find a "bad" for cement siding, though.

Vinyl also has a tendency to exacerbate mold issues, or so I've been told. Personally, I'm turned off by the cheap look of it. Indiana has so many vinyl villages that dropped out of the sky seemingly overnight, and while SoCal isn't immune to suburban tract housing, the beige stucco looks a hell of a lot nicer than vinyl or aluminum siding.

[Croc]

Also, the 'after' pic of the wood siding shows asphalt siding, not wood.

Well, the photo came from a google search for wood siding, and the siding above the porch roof looks an awful lot like rotting wood to me, but google could be wrong.

[regfootball]

i think fiber cement is ideal of all the choices, it costs a bit more, and you have to caulk it and paint it occassionally.

occassionally on the paint being many years. You can get it prefinished.

if cost is an issue, buy the top quality vinyl.

why vinyl got popular, cheap, and anyone can install it. the important thing with vinyl is flashings at water intrusion points. and the drainage plane.

vinyl can be dressed up to fool folks into looking more expensive if you design the exterior to incorporate some trim pieces and also using more than one color.

look at nova-brik. its a stacking concrete block that nails to your walls and in some cases is not a bad siding replacement.

got any pictures of your house, blu? maybe this out of work architect can offer you some ideas.

avoid metal siding like the plague.

could you do real stucco?

[ocnblu]

Well I live in a split-foyer duplex. The front lower is bricked, side and rear lower walls are concrete block smeared over with cement in a fan pattern (which I'd like to look into having power washed to brighten and then, if advisable, paint it in a complimentary color to the new siding). I have a full-width second-floor deck across the back of the house. The front upstairs living room window is a double. I'd like to eventually replace that with a bay window if the wall can support it (how do I tell?) The windows on the back of the house were replaced, and I'd like to eventually replace a double downstairs in front and two singles in my bedroom, along with the upstairs sliding door to the deck (the downstairs slider was replaced as a necessity after vandalism).

As far as the siding goes, I'd like to eventually replace it and while it's off, wrap the house in Tyvek or something similar, if it will be worth the money in insulation value. I don't see anything wrong with my eave and soffit trim, hopefully it can be left intact.

The roof is original and I'd like to have architectural shingles put on it. The rain gutters run all the way across the front and back of the house, so I'm not sure how it would go if I try to redo my half.

[A Horse With No Name]

'blu...sounds like a good plan. Give my 8 year old house about ten more years and I intend to kind of redo everything so it's 100 percent for retirement.

I'd really eventually like a metal roof if I ever build a house...I love the sound of rain on them on a summer night.

But 100% on the architectural shingle thing...put them on my second house. They looked fantastic!

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

...and I like the idea of regs of stucco...and also of posting a pic...

chris

[balthazar]

Tyvek is moisture/water barrier, if it has an R value it must be .5 (it might help if the house was sheathed in boards vs. sheets, WRT wind).

Replacing a flat double double-hung with a bay should be no problem, tho you might have to utilize angled supports, depending on how you are able/willing to anchor it, framing-wise. The more you can open the inside wall, the more you can anchor it into the frame.

You can inter-lace the shingles on your half into the existing roof (provided they're still flexible enough for lifting), but primarily it would look strange IMO, unless the colors were a match. Less so if the siding is different side-2-side.

Eaves should be OK unless they were enclosed after the siding... in other words the siding may go all the way to the roof behind the eave enclosure, which would probably mean they have to be redone.

Post a pic of yer crib, ocn, so we can spend your money for you !

[Croc]

Stucco is awesome, when done right. When done poorly, every bit of water damage is super obvious, and patching it pretty blatant too.

[regfootball]

tyvek should not be confused with being a 'vapor' barrier. it repels air passage and liquid moisture. this is why its suitable as a housewrap. it performs the function that felts did as far as moisture drainage plane and it is an air infiltration retarder. Yet it allows the passage of moisture vapor. Dependent on your climate, I know here where its freaking cold the true vapor barrier is on the warm side of the insulation which is why here its applied on the studs inside then the sheetrock goes down. By no means should one create a double vapor barrier.

It escapes me right now what is typically put behind stucco, that's be easy enough for me to look up I guess. Prob felts. I wonder if this house has a vapor barrier, considering the age. Even if it didn't have a vapor barrier at least the tyvek should help with some air infiltration losses and would not probably cause any harm.

[ocnblu]

"...won't do any harm." hmmm... that doesn't sound too positive. It sounds like it would not be worth the money. Please elaborate if you can kthnxbai.