The big picture...

[gm4life]

Mark Reuss, General Motors and Rear Wheel Drive

Reading the topic about Mark Ruess I was going to make a response about the upcoming "un-named" wonder known just as the SS. Then I as I got typing my simple response that became a not so simple response but a big concern... If this car actually seeing the light of day. Not that the question put up by someone worrying about the "little issues" getting fixed isn't important it is. (Just not to me!) I am thinking big picture, so here is what I am thinking and actually fear will happen.

If this new SS actually is produced, and sitting on dealer lots, I will be thankfully proven wrong! I just believe this car CAN'T happen. I fear this SS will be shown at the car shows and we will get teased for over a year (more than likely) and as the car is ready for production for 2012 model year, gas shoots up and GM pulls the plug. The fact is the Zeta is due for a MCE for the 2012 model year, (maybe 2011, I forget off the top of my head) the Caprice PPV will be getting that also, along with the 3.6L Direct Injection V6. I trust the MCE will be pretty extensive and solve some of the issues... My main worry isn't getting the small issues fixed like the Nav etc. It is actually getting the car.

Yet another reason I fear it won't make it is the name issue. Caprice will be taken in the form of the LWB Zeta for police/government use. So the Caprice SS is pretty much out as I assume this will be a SWB model. Then comes Impala SS what this car should be called, and leave the Malibu to do Camry and Accord battle. Then I ask how can you call this car the Impala SS when the "other" Impala is a totally different car, FWD and EP II based? Then the idea of calling it just SS arises like the 2003 red show car, but that is confusing and creates many problems too. So what historic names are you left with, that will do this car proud? Chevelle and sorry Chevelle would work on a smaller RWD but no fullsize RWD performance sedan. So what will they name it? I think that is a HUGE issue. In my heart I would love to see this as the Impala SS, but really doubt it. So to recap thus far we have gas prices, the name and then all the unknown issues that could come along... Then there is CAFE and that will be last blow to this car and will kill it. Sorry. I am in show me mode with anything RWD from GM.

I am truly more worried about seeing the car period, especially sitting on the showroom floor than I am about the little issues, but rest assured if we actually get this un-named wonder it will be a bloodly miracle and won't give a $h! about a Nav or revised seats, etc. Or any other small bull$h!. Seriously, I am a big picture person, and might just send a real formal letter to GM over my X-Mas break. (The aftermarket can fix all that little $h!, but not build me an entire RWD V8 Zeta based high performance full size roomy four door at a price I can afford.)

This is why I am not holding my breath even with Mark making his way up the ranks, and Bob back in charge of product. This is all good and helps me see the light... But for every Mark Reuss, Bob Lutz and Ed Welburn there are five Roger Smith era bean counters at GM. How is that for faith?

The thing that ticks me off the most is I know GM can do it. I know they can build world class cars, the new LaX, Enclave, G8, Camaro, CTS, SRX, Equinox, and Malibu are all proof! So take the quality interiors, fit and finish, good styling and plug that into a V8 powered RWD four door sedan like the G8 and actually sell it. The G8 to me is the ultimate tease to show just what GM can do. I was not in the market for a car while the G8 is/was out, nor did I have the coin. Had timing been different I would have one next to my SLE. So thus I must wait and get teased with spy photos, show cars and all the bull$h! and rumors for the next 2 years over a car we should have right now called the G8. Seems kind of crazy doesn't it?

Then GM dumps gasoline on the fire and displays a lovely Caprice PPV for the POLICE only. A car that effectively meets all my wants/dreams and tells me I can't have one? I have come to find out (almost positive) I can get one if I play my cards right which is all well and good but still don't know if I really want a "cop car". Even if this car comes especially if it is SWB I might just get an L76 Caprice to be different and for the extra room, but really would rather they just never taken away the car that did all of this so well. The G8. GM want to give me a Christmas gift, actually a miracle, build this car. Don't just take about it, tease us with show cars and spy photos and then pull the plug. Actually follow through! Grow a sack and get it done, you have no good reason why you can't do it... So prove to us and yourselves you have the balls to build a world class RWD four door sedan with a real V8. The rest of the world, cars lovers and some of your most loyal fans/owners are waiting.

Edited December 14, 2009 by gm4life

[gm4life]

While I am at it, here are some great photos of the new Caprice in LA from LeftLane. 2011 Caprice PPV

[FAPTurbo]

This is why I am not holding my breath even with Mark making his way up the ranks, and Bob back in charge of product. This is all good and helps me see the light... But for every Mark Reuss, Bob Lutz and Ed Welburn there are five Roger Smith era bean counters at GM. How is that for faith?

I've bookmarked the topic where Reuss drops hints about the Z28, and such. When all this RWD stuff goes on the rocks again, and people start posting about how much they don't like Reuss, I'm going to paste a link to it because I know they'll be the same people who were rejoicing the man's placement. People did it to Fritz, and I'm sure it'll happen to Reuss. Hopefully, it won't.

The thing that ticks me off the most is I know GM can do it. I know they can build world class cars, the new LaX, Enclave, G8, Camaro, CTS, SRX, Equinox, and Malibu are all proof! So take the quality interiors, fit and finish, good styling and plug that into a V8 powered RWD four door sedan like the G8 and actually sell it. The G8 to me is the ultimate tease to show just what GM can do. I was not in the market for a car while the G8 is/was out, nor did I have the coin. Had timing been different I would have one next to my SLE. So thus I must wait and get teased with spy photos, show cars and all the bull$h! and rumors for the next 2 years over a car we should have right now called the G8. Seems kind of crazy doesn't it?

GM did that with the G8. The quality was fantastic, the styling was nice and it had a V8. However, not only a few months ago up my way, they were giving 6.5K cash on the hood of a G8 GT. Now, you can still nab a G8 GT for $4500 off.

GM built a fantastic car for enthusiasts, and it didn't exactly turn out too well. I'd rather GM spend their time making class beating family sedans, and hauler's instead of looking at another large foray into 'for-the-masses' RWD that isn't a halo car like the Camaro.

[z28luvr01]

Just sit tight and keep the faith.

PCS has hinted that Zeta is not all that dead, and regardless of your personal feelings for him, he has a history of being right. I think we'll see the Holden Zetas here in some form, but probably not immediately. Complicating the naming issue is that Oshawa owns the rights to the Impala name - any car called Impala must be made there. here are two factoids for you - the W-body Impala is supposed to die in 2012, and the Holden Zetas are scheduled for a redo in 2013, either on the current North American version of Zeta (Camaro), or a lighter successor to Zeta. Not sure yet, rumors are conflicting. Anyway, I could see Oshawa being earmarked for production of the Holden Zetas (including a Commodore-based Impala), once this happens. Until then, we're likely to get low-volume imports from Australia like the Caprice PPV, or maybe a limited run of Utes or Park Avenues.

As for the gas price issue, look up the MPG figures for the V6 Malibu and the V6 G8 - they are virtually identical despite the Zeta being heavier. There are technologies in the GM parts bin to help the Zetas become more efficient right now, and those now in charge are well aware of that. When gas prices shot up in Australia, Reuss himself stated that Holden was working on diesel and hybrid Commodores to increase their gas mileage.

Calm down, let GM get its ducks in a row, and se what happens. A lot of us might end up very happy.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Just sit tight and keep the faith.

PCS has hinted that Zeta is not all that dead, and regardless of your personal feelings for him, he has a history of being right.

Isn't the word irregardless?

[gm4life]

Just sit tight and keep the faith.

PCS has hinted that Zeta is not all that dead, and regardless of your personal feelings for him, he has a history of being right. I think we'll see the Holden Zetas here in some form, but probably not immediately. Complicating the naming issue is that Oshawa owns the rights to the Impala name - any car called Impala must be made there. here are two factoids for you - the W-body Impala is supposed to die in 2012, and the Holden Zetas are scheduled for a redo in 2013, either on the current North American version of Zeta (Camaro), or a lighter successor to Zeta. Not sure yet, rumors are conflicting. Anyway, I could see Oshawa being earmarked for production of the Holden Zetas (including a Commodore-based Impala), once this happens. Until then, we're likely to get low-volume imports from Australia like the Caprice PPV, or maybe a limited run of Utes or Park Avenues.

As for the gas price issue, look up the MPG figures for the V6 Malibu and the V6 G8 - they are virtually identical despite the Zeta being heavier. There are technologies in the GM parts bin to help the Zetas become more efficient right now, and those now in charge are well aware of that. When gas prices shot up in Australia, Reuss himself stated that Holden was working on diesel and hybrid Commodores to increase their gas mileage.

Calm down, let GM get its ducks in a row, and se what happens. A lot of us might end up very happy.

I understand where you are coming from and PCS has a history of being right. I totally agree. I actually respect PCS he is a bold guy, and I respect him for that and that is not to say I don't disagree with him sometimes. I am trying to keep the faith but as Camino has said he is in show-me model, and I think that is the place I am going to be as well. The new Camaro was a car I hoped would be so right and it had the spirit, styling, motor, and everything right, just the interior is too small. I don't care about the materials inside not being super soft or fancy but with a sunroof I knock my head sitting in one and I am NOT TALL. I love the car so badly but the it is lacking the extra space I really was hoping it would have. Not to say I wouldn't get one but it is factor in my decision. So that leaves the Caprice PPV, and I certainly hope PCS is right about the Zeta. I want a RWD Impala so bad, with LS, LT, LTZ and SS trim levels a few different motors both six and eight cylinders but can't see it happening. (Because we are getting a FWD EP II based Impala!) We have all been told about great things to come from GM and then only to get them canceled...

[gm4life]

Isn't the word irregardless?

Look who shows up... PCS wanna give me some inside ball? I'll take whatever you can give me... I might just be that guy who ends up down at my dealer trying to figure out a way to get a Caprice PPV.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Look who shows up... PCS wanna give me some inside ball? I'll take whatever you can give me... I might just be that guy who ends up down at my dealer trying to figure out a way to get a Caprice PPV.

Caprice PPV? Why would you want to do all that work, when I'm sure there will be an easier way to get where you need to be in the near future ...

[gm4life]

I've bookmarked the topic where Reuss drops hints about the Z28, and such. When all this RWD stuff goes on the rocks again, and people start posting about how much they don't like Reuss, I'm going to paste a link to it because I know they'll be the same people who were rejoicing the man's placement. People did it to Fritz, and I'm sure it'll happen to Reuss. Hopefully, it won't.

GM did that with the G8. The quality was fantastic, the styling was nice and it had a V8. However, not only a few months ago up my way, they were giving 6.5K cash on the hood of a G8 GT. Now, you can still nab a G8 GT for $4500 off.

GM built a fantastic car for enthusiasts, and it didn't exactly turn out too well. I'd rather GM spend their time making class beating family sedans, and hauler's instead of looking at another large foray into 'for-the-masses' RWD that isn't a halo car like the Camaro.

Please don't go on about how it didn't turn out to well. The car was poorly marketed at best, and many other mistakes were made like with the GTO. Look at how well the Camaro is doing, oh wait that is car that has been marketed right. There are more people around like me than you think. I can agree the car was fantastic, but I still can't swing one, not now. It is bad timing for the me, the prices are great no doubt, but I still can't do it.

As for Mark I will support him if he does what he needs to do, which is world class FWD and RWD cars. So if he misses the RWD portion, yes he will loose my support. That is why I am holding my breath. GM might just get one hell of a letter from me over Christmas break, and trust me it won't be read and nor will it be all sunshine and happiness. I am not asking for a full RWD line-up but a few affordable RWD cars would be nice and just what the doctor ordered.

Edited December 14, 2009 by gm4life

[gm4life]

Caprice PPV? Why would you want to do all that work, when I'm sure there will be an easier way to get where you need to be in the near future ...

Well that is what I hope, but trust me I still could do it, if GM doesn't get its $h! together. Even if it comes and it is SWB model like the G8 I still might find a way to get a Caprice because ever since I saw the Park Ave for China I was in love. God I do hope your right, can you tell us will we be seeing this car on the show circut soon?

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well that is what I hope, but trust me I still could do it, if GM doesn't get its $h! together. Even if it comes and it is SWB model like the G8 I still might find a way to get a Caprice because ever since I saw the Park Ave for China I was in love. God I do hope your right, can you tell us will we be seeing this car on the show circut soon?

I said too much already, have faith, don't be a Doubting Thomas ...

[A Horse With No Name]

Having just comke back from Dave Gill Chevrolet where I got to check out (but didn't test drive) a new Camaro and Malibu LTZ first hand...it is getting easier to ahve faith in GM all of the time.

Chris

[gm4life]

I said too much already, have faith, don't be a Doubting Thomas ...

Well thank you opening your mouth. It would be the best Christmas gift of all if your are right and we get this SS. Thanks for the encouragement but depending upon what this car turns out to be (SWB or LWB) and or cost, I still wouldn't rule out me finding a way to slip a PPV out the back door. (I am a sucker for steel wheels!) Certainly we don't want you in any trouble with your employer!

Edited December 12, 2009 by gm4life

[gm4life]

Having just comke back from Dave Gill Chevrolet where I got to check out (but didn't test drive) a new Camaro and Malibu LTZ first hand...it is getting easier to ahve faith in GM all of the time.

Chris

I know that is what irks me, they can do it. Just do it with a car that I want a fullsize V8 powered RWD car that I can fit in without my head hitting. (Like the Camaro with a sunroof! It is the only thing *slightly cramped interior* besides the stupid expensive tires, I don't like about that car!)

Edited December 12, 2009 by gm4life

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well thank you opening your mouth. It would be the best Christmas gift of all if your are right and we get this SS. Thanks for the encouragement but depending upon what this car turns out to be (SWB or LWB) and or cost, I still wouldn't rule out me finding a way to slip a PPV out the back door. (I am a sucker for steel wheels!) Certainly we don't want you in any trouble with your employeer!

Have you ever seen me get in trouble with my employer? GM and I, we are one ...

[gm4life]

Have you ever seen me get in trouble with my employer? GM and I, we are one ...

No, but I am still glad you open your mouth from time to time around here. Even if I like it or not you turn out to be right! On a thing like this I can only hope your right again and we see it soon! (Well yesterday would have been better!) No doubt your one of a kind and were glad you hang around, even if we don't always see eye to eye.

Edited December 12, 2009 by gm4life

[A Horse With No Name]

GM4life...yeah the tires are mucho dinero, but what a car. The one I looked at today was that metallic orange, am RS V6 autotrajic. SWEET!

Even better, while I was sitting in the Malibu, thinking about how cool it would be to own...I started listening to the deals being done around me. 3...yes three...deals at the same time people trading Toyota for GM. Corolla for a Cobalt, Camry for a Malibu, and a Tundra for a Silverado.

THAT made my day...esp. listening to the couple trading the Tundra tell the salesperson what a crappy truck it was compared to their previous Silverado.

Sales guy was good though because the Tundra couple almost walked to buy a Wrangler...but he kept them in the dealership and sold the Silverado.

Chris

[gm4life]

GM4life...yeah the tires are mucho dinero, but what a car. The one I looked at today was that metallic orange, am RS V6 autotrajic. SWEET!

Even better, while I was sitting in the Malibu, thinking about how cool it would be to own...I started listening to the deals being done around me. 3...yes three...deals at the same time people trading Toyota for GM. Corolla for a Cobalt, Camry for a Malibu, and a Tundra for a Silverado.

THAT made my day...esp. listening to the couple trading the Tundra tell the salesperson what a crappy truck it was compared to their previous Silverado.

Sales guy was good though because the Tundra couple almost walked to buy a Wrangler...but he kept them in the dealership and sold the Silverado.

Chris

All great news! I agree with all the choices but the Corolla for a Cobalt? I would have suffered with the $h!-box another few months and waited for a Cruze.

[A Horse With No Name]

...and let me add sorry for going off topic...but right now I've got more faith in GM than I've had in twenty years.

Chris

[gm4life]

...and let me add sorry for going off topic...but right now I've got more faith in GM than I've had in twenty years.

Chris

God I hope your right. I have faith in them too, just not in affordable RWD V8 powered cars. A void they had filled until this April, when Pontiac got the pink slip. 66 don't worry about getting off topic we all do.

[z28luvr01]

Isn't the word irregardless?

Irregardless is a form that many people mistakenly believe to be a correct usage in formal style but that in fact has no legitimate antecedents in either standard or nonstandard varieties.

I also distinctly remember my Technical Writing professor going on a ten minute dissertation on how expressions like "irregardless" and "free gift" were terrible misuses of the English language.

[Camino LS6]

No comment at this time.

[gm4life]

No comment at this time.

Well when you have one, please leave it here.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I also distinctly remember my Technical Writing professor going on a ten minute dissertation on how expressions like "irregardless" and "free gift" were terrible misuses of the English language.

I know, you talked about this before, when I saw regardless, I couldn't resist! It's the devil in me ...

[regfootball]

i really am fine with GM delaying the next consumer Zeta until 2012 or whatever until the supposed future refinements are taken care of.

that being, a little less weight, continuing to upgrade the engines and trannies, I would even like to see some interior refinement and North Americanization (i.e. silly window switches on the console instead of the doors, poor cupholder integration, cheap center stack with useless display up top, etc.).

AWD would also be on my wish list as I would also think many of the dealers would scream out loud for it as an option.

in the meantime, those that REALLY badly want a caprice will find a way to get one. and there is likely going to be a few used g8's to pick from as well.

[gm4life]

i really am fine with GM delaying the next consumer Zeta until 2012 or whatever until the supposed future refinements are taken care of.

that being, a little less weight, continuing to upgrade the engines and trannies, I would even like to see some interior refinement and North Americanization (i.e. silly window switches on the console instead of the doors, poor cupholder integration, cheap center stack with useless display up top, etc.).

AWD would also be on my wish list as I would also think many of the dealers would scream out loud for it as an option.

in the meantime, those that REALLY badly want a caprice will find a way to get one. and there is likely going to be a few used g8's to pick from as well.

Aside of the timing issue I agree with your statement. I just have to see the damn car now. Once I see it I will believe. Kind of like St. Nick, you know?

AWD would also be on my wish list as I would also think many of the dealers would scream out loud for it as an option.

I really don't know exactly what Zeta I want but it will have 8 cylinders and most likely be a four door. As for the Caprice, I like keeping my options open and always like having a choice. Or a back-up plan should GM wuss out. GM would have my attention with a roomy 2 door Zeta (think GTOish) so long as it wasn't alot more than say a Camaro SS.

But yes for those who want one, it can be done.

Edited December 13, 2009 by gm4life

[caddycruiser]

Interesting discussion. And more interesting specifically regarding Chevy and Zeta, more so, that thing we call the Impala and whatever it may be. While we were buying the Camaro this past Monday, the salesperson started chatting up the G8, of all things, and how many people he still has coming in looking for them, what's left when he goes to try a swap, etc. and what combo mine was. "It's a terrific car and platform, and such a shame, but I just really hope it comes to Chevy." All the while, the odd part being, he didn't speak of the Camaro as actually being that, I think because it's so different in so many ways. Just that the sedan, as it was, SWB Zeta sedan form was terrific to drive, look at, etc. I agree.

I like everything that's new, depending on the day, mom's Camaro included--I still want one of those, but purely for the new/cool factor--but nothing has ever gotten to me like my G8. And I've never spent so much money after the fact upgrading and changing things, either. It just does it, walks the walk, talks the talk, and is a smile maker every single day. It's the package. It's all there. There are oddities that could be better, from the cheap bits of plastic on parts of the interior, to some front suspension bugs, but otherwise I've never had to return for warranty service--did do some things aftermarket, well many, but still--and it's as much a luxury cruiser as it is a head snapping beast when pounded. The bones are good and should be used as much as possible, simple enough. I was driving around today, doing a few extra laps just for fun while errand-ing, and thinking "when this car has 200k with my driving...wonder when...and wonder what I'll be doing to it then..." which is quite the sign. I hope it happens.

Back when there were those brief rumors of essentially a Chevy G8 appearing, I was worried because as much as I wanted to see more of the cars, that wasn't the right move and you have to have the right products for the right brands. Not just random bits and pieces, including one--highly revered or not--that was just sold with a different nose. I'd love to see a sedan like the G8 package for Chevy, but considerably different and, IMHO, only after a more extensive refresh to hopefully align it more with what people have become used to in new NA GM products, have fresher/newer styling, etc. I still don't know how that would fit in Chevy, but it's one of those odd things that while it never sold with Pontiac until they dropped cash on the hood, despite raves reviews, it would likely take off at Chevy just because of the bowtie. That seems to happen a lot, and that brand as a whole is just so widespread and accepted, it could have one of everything and sell them all well.

Or, more so, I want to actually see a GMC...think PCS's sig or much more like the Denali XT concept from not long ago...just for something really unique on these guts. I don't know. Lots in store I hope, and I'm not clear on who should get what and how, but trust in what PCS and others say, that aside from specifics, the right things will happen. Hope so.

[gm4life]

Interesting discussion. And more interesting specifically regarding Chevy and Zeta, more so, that thing we call the Impala and whatever it may be. While we were buying the Camaro this past Monday, the salesperson started chatting up the G8, of all things, and how many people he still has coming in looking for them, what's left when he goes to try a swap, etc. and what combo mine was. "It's a terrific car and platform, and such a shame, but I just really hope it comes to Chevy." All the while, the odd part being, he didn't speak of the Camaro as actually being that, I think because it's so different in so many ways. Just that the sedan, as it was, SWB Zeta sedan form was terrific to drive, look at, etc. I agree.

I like everything that's new, depending on the day, mom's Camaro included--I still want one of those, but purely for the new/cool factor--but nothing has ever gotten to me like my G8. And I've never spent so much money after the fact upgrading and changing things, either. It just does it, walks the walk, talks the talk, and is a smile maker every single day. It's the package. It's all there. There are oddities that could be better, from the cheap bits of plastic on parts of the interior, to some front suspension bugs, but otherwise I've never had to return for warranty service--did do some things aftermarket, well many, but still--and it's as much a luxury cruiser as it is a head snapping beast when pounded. The bones are good and should be used as much as possible, simple enough. I was driving around today, doing a few extra laps just for fun while errand-ing, and thinking "when this car has 200k with my driving...wonder when...and wonder what I'll be doing to it then..." which is quite the sign. I hope it happens.

Back when there were those brief rumors of essentially a Chevy G8 appearing, I was worried because as much as I wanted to see more of the cars, that wasn't the right move and you have to have the right products for the right brands. Not just random bits and pieces, including one--highly revered or not--that was just sold with a different nose. I'd love to see a sedan like the G8 package for Chevy, but considerably different and, IMHO, only after a more extensive refresh to hopefully align it more with what people have become used to in new NA GM products, have fresher/newer styling, etc. I still don't know how that would fit in Chevy, but it's one of those odd things that while it never sold with Pontiac until they dropped cash on the hood, despite raves reviews, it would likely take off at Chevy just because of the bowtie. That seems to happen a lot, and that brand as a whole is just so widespread and accepted, it could have one of everything and sell them all well.

Or, more so, I want to actually see a GMC...think PCS's sig or much more like the Denali XT concept from not long ago...just for something really unique on these guts. I don't know. Lots in store I hope, and I'm not clear on who should get what and how, but trust in what PCS and others say, that aside from specifics, the right things will happen. Hope so.

I realy do hope so. I want the Camino just for Camino, but I would bet a four door sedan if it happens is most likely. Having said that I doubt anything is being ruled out.

[caddycruiser]

I realy do hope so. I want the Camino just for Camino, but I would bet a four door sedan if it happens is most likely. Having said that I doubt anything is being ruled out.

Yes. My issue at the moment is still, there's so much that can be done with this platform and car, but more "G8's" so to speak, imported even, or just with the remaining "something is different...it doesn't do or have what my other GM cars do..." can't work on new iterations. And, at the same time, as much as it was enjoyed, another simple Commodore re-badge honestly could do it for Chevy, but that would be old GM, not new GM who actually thinks about these things. Plants here have flexibility, but as Reuss said to Autoline when asked a lot about this, by the time you switch a car to a different country, it's actually a whole new car because suppliers have to be largely new, there's a different line, etc. Not that that's even a concern right now, it can be done, but it's just another piece of the puzzle. Just saying "well you build the Camaro in Oshawa" doesn't truly count, because that Zeta II design has the same bones but is significantly different at the same time. Not just add a sedan version to the line, and you're gold.

It just has to be right, and what is right is still the question. It continues to sound like there are a LOT of plans and proposals in place, as long as they're very thought out. Especially for Chevy with a new large Epsilon II Impala apparently, finally, so far baked. That's the right choice, but then between that, the Malibu, and even the Caprice--hopefully with more updates by regular production, if it happens--where or how do you fit something else in, that could be successful?

Edited December 13, 2009 by caddycruiser

[gm4life]

Yes. My issue at the moment is still, there's so much that can be done with this platform and car, but more "G8's" so to speak, imported even, or just with the remaining "something is different...it doesn't do or have what my other GM cars do..." can't work on new iterations. And, at the same time, as much as it was enjoyed, another simple Commodore re-badge honestly could do it for Chevy, but that would be old GM, not new GM who actually thinks about these things. Plants here have flexibility, but as Reuss said to Autoline when asked a lot about this, by the time you switch a car to a different country, it's actually a whole new car because suppliers have to be largely new, there's a different line, etc. Not that that's even a concern right now, it can be done, but it's just another piece of the puzzle. Just saying "well you build the Camaro in Oshawa" doesn't truly count, because that Zeta II design has the same bones but is significantly different at the same time. Not just add a sedan version to the line, and you're gold.

It just has to be right, and what is right is still the question. It continues to sound like there are a LOT of plans and proposals in place, as long as they're very thought out. Especially for Chevy with a new large Epsilon II Impala apparently, finally, so far baked. That's the right choice, but then between that, the Malibu, and even the Caprice--hopefully with more updates by regular production, if it happens--where or how do you fit something else in, that could be successful?

I understand, but I think even a slightly rebadged G8 (aka Commodore) in Chevy garb (within a year or so) would be a sales hit. It would certainly make up for the lost G8 sales and then some. I am figuring I am just going to have to wait to see what GM does. Still I am, in show me mode. Once I see I'll believe it.

[caddycruiser]

Still I am, in show me mode. Once I see I'll believe it.

Exactly. Until we see something, it's all just chatter

[gm4life]

Exactly why I have looked into getting a Caprice.

[gm4life]

Just thinking out loud, I do really wonder what they will call this new "SS" if we get it? Still there is something oddly appealing about the Caprice so long as I can get the 9C1 with a full cloth interior. Given the fact the current 9C1 Impala comes either way cloth or vinyl in the rear it wouldn't suprise me. When we get this new model it would be interesting to see the Caprice 9C1/9C3 for law/gov and if in fact the consumers get the same car (LWB Zeta, of cource with the MCE) for civilians. This would make it different that the G8 (size and focus) and ensuring it will slot well above the EP II Impala size wise. Still dreaming...

Edited December 14, 2009 by gm4life

[Robert Hall]

Just thinking out loud, I do really wonder what they will call this new "SS" if we get it?

Well, as long as the current Impala is around, I would assume it wouldn't be called Impala also given the Oshawa restriction. Calling it Caprice if it uses the SWB G8 body in parallel w/ the LWB Caprice PPV for police use would be odd. And I don't see them resurrecting a vintage Chevy fullsize name like Bel Air. 2012 Chevrolet Bel Air SS. Doesn't seem likely...and the Middle East market name (Lumina SS) probably wouldn't fly, given that name's history here. Maybe just 'Chevrolet SS'?

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

What if GMC was no longer just a truck brand anymore? OOD or PCS puts a picture of a GMC UTE in is profile. A long time ago I thought what if GMC started selling cars and changed their slogan to "We are not just trucks anymore"?

PCS is telling without telling you guys with his visual hits and phrases like he gave in this thread.

IF GMC sold cars too Oldsmobile and Pontiac people would not be offended. I even heard Bob Lutz make an off handed comment like saying "Pontiac by GMC".

What PCS is saying is wait and believe. They are working on it. It is how they get it to you. It may not come in the form of a Chevrolet or a Buick.

I could be totally wrong.

[CaddyXLR-V]

GM did that with the G8. The quality was fantastic, the styling was nice and it had a V8. However, not only a few months ago up my way, they were giving 6.5K cash on the hood of a G8 GT. Now, you can still nab a G8 GT for $4500 off.

GM built a fantastic car for enthusiasts, and it didn't exactly turn out too well. I'd rather GM spend their time making class beating family sedans, and hauler's instead of looking at another large foray into 'for-the-masses' RWD that isn't a halo car like the Camaro.

That might have something to do with wanting to clear out their remaining inventory. Like when you see Circuit City giving 50% discounts because they are closing, it's not because their PS3s dont work as good as Best Buys PS3s. There are 0 G8 GTs left in my area. The closest G8 V6 is 3 hours away.

[gm4life]

Well, as long as the current Impala is around, I would assume it wouldn't be called Impala also given the Oshawa restriction. Calling it Caprice if it uses the SWB G8 body in parallel w/ the LWB Caprice PPV for police use would be odd. And I don't see them resurrecting a vintage Chevy fullsize name like Bel Air. 2012 Chevrolet Bel Air SS. Doesn't seem likely...and the Middle East market name (Lumina SS) probably wouldn't fly, given that name's history here. Maybe just 'Chevrolet SS'?

I know but just "SS", I think that is confusing. Bel Air would be interesting though, and is a GREAT name, one I never thought of. I do agree with what you are saying. We are most def. on the same page.

[gm4life]

What if GMC was no longer just a truck brand anymore? OOD or PCS puts a picture of a GMC UTE in is profile. A long time ago I thought what if GMC started selling cars and changed their slogan to "We are not just trucks anymore"?

PCS is telling without telling you guys with his visual hits and phrases like he gave in this thread.

IF GMC sold cars too Oldsmobile and Pontiac people would not be offended. I even heard Bob Lutz make an off handed comment like saying "Pontiac by GMC".

What PCS is saying is wait and believe. They are working on it. It is how they get it to you. It may not come in the form of a Chevrolet or a Buick.

I could be totally wrong.

I understand where you are coming from... But it is kind of like having faith in a blind eye doctor yah know? As for the GMC comment I am sorry GMC badged cars won't do it for me. I am not opposed to a GMC Truck/SUV/Van but car, no way. Now if it was a Pontiac (insert model here) by GMC I could deal with that. However I am in favor of a GMC Zeta based UTE and a Zeta based car for Chevrolet. (Or any other car brand for that matter, just Chevy should be first in line.)

I am really sorry I believe I cannot put believe GM and RWD all in the same sentance. I believe they can and will do great things with FWD/AWD cars and RWD/4WD/AWD trucks and SUV's but not cars. They have shown me nothing outside of the FWD/AWD cars and RWD/4WD/AWD trucks for me to believe in. Now ask me can they do it? Of course, and if a GMC UTE and Chevy "SS" along with the Caprice for fleet/gov't is on the way that just might do it.

I just need to see the RWD cars to believe. In the past 10 even 15 years RWD cars have no been a GM strong point (outside of the Corvette). Sorry 98, I can't believe in what I can't see when it comes to RWD. That is why I have opened the door to a Caprice for me, and can now get one, by jumping through a couple of hoops. I am just taking lemons and making lemonade and getting another option. For me if the new "SS" is SWB a Caprice still might be a better fit for me, if I am going big, I might as well go all out. If you recall I was the one drooling over the China spec Park Ave back in 2007? Well the Caprice is darn close! Plus it offers the right motor!

Edited December 14, 2009 by gm4life

[Justin Bimmer]

Have you ever seen me get in trouble with my employer? GM and I, we are one ...

Just as long as you don't steal Chrysler's lame tagline "I am GM" LOL!

[GMTruckGuy74]

Or, more so, I want to actually see a GMC...think PCS's sig or much more like the Denali XT concept from not long ago...just for something really unique on these guts. I don't know. Lots in store I hope, and I'm not clear on who should get what and how, but trust in what PCS and others say, that aside from specifics, the right things will happen. Hope so.

I was very much praying for GM to greenlight this variant for me to buy. I didn't care if AWD was available or not (though I'd like the option, I could deal with it being RWD-only). I even contacted GM, with assistance from PCS with a link to the actual form GM prefers to read, telling them how perfect the Denali XT concept was as a future vehicle (they even wrote back, just a thanks for the info kind of letter though). It's a shame that vehicle was not pushed forward to come out for 2011 after the Terrain as a follow-up. As much as I appreciate PCS having a UTE-based GMC in his signature, if it can't handle a family of 5 comfortably it won't mean much to me because a 2-passenger UTE won't cut it for me regardless of the badge on the front. PCS man, please bring the Denali XT for those wanting a truck but needing the effiency of a car.

[GMTruckGuy74]

There are 0 G8 GTs left in my area. The closest G8 V6 is 3 hours away.

Oh, there are plenty of G8 V6 Sedans still available to me not far away... I just don't have the finances to make one happen, though the desire for and want are ready and waiting to launch

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

I understand where you are coming from... But it is kind of like having faith in a blind eye doctor yah know? As for the GMC comment I am sorry GMC badged cars won't do it for me. I am not opposed to a GMC Truck/SUV/Van but car, no way. Now if it was a Pontiac (insert model here) by GMC I could deal with that. However I am in favor of a GMC Zeta based UTE and a Zeta based car for Chevrolet. (Or any other car brand for that matter, just Chevy should be first in line.)

I am really sorry I believe I cannot put believe GM and RWD all in the same sentance. I believe they can and will do great things with FWD/AWD cars and RWD/4WD/AWD trucks and SUV's but not cars. They have shown me nothing outside of the FWD/AWD cars and RWD/4WD/AWD trucks for me to believe in. Now ask me can they do it? Of course, and if a GMC UTE and Chevy "SS" along with the Caprice for fleet/gov't is on the way that just might do it.

I just need to see the RWD cars to believe. In the past 10 even 15 years RWD cars have no been a GM strong point (outside of the Corvette). Sorry 98, I can't believe in what I can't see when it comes to RWD. That is why I have opened the door to a Caprice for me, and can now get one, by jumping through a couple of hoops. I am just taking lemons and making lemonade and getting another option. For me if the new "SS" is SWB a Caprice still might be a better fit for me, if I am going big, I might as well go all out. If you recall I was the one drooling over the China spec Park Ave back in 2007? Well the Caprice is darn close! Plus it offers the right motor!

I understand. I guess you feel the same as I do then. You bring Oldsmobile back or do a Oldsmobile by GMC. I feel what you are saying. Yeah, the last affordable rear drive before the G8 at GM was in the 1990's. This is the up hill battle GM is fighting.

[gm4life]

Oh, there are plenty of G8 V6 Sedans still available to me not far away... I just don't have the finances to make one happen, though the desire for and want are ready and waiting to launch

Hell my local dealer (jerk) even has a 2009 V6 in gray left. This is dealer that sold his last new Poncho months ago. It suddenly showed up in the Pontiac showroom, window sticker and all. I have about 50 G8 GT's left with in a few hours, no GXP's (duh, last one was outside Chicago a few months ago), and tons of V6's yet. Then again I am in Iowa.

[gm4life]

I understand. I guess you feel the same as I do then. You bring Oldsmobile back or do a Oldsmobile by GMC. I feel what you are saying. Yeah, the last affordable rear drive before the G8 at GM was in the 1990's. This is the up hill battle GM is fighting.

Exactly, I don't want to see GMC make cars. If they do it has to be Pontiac by GMC and Oldsmobile by GMC. The last affordable RWD full size RWD four door is the much loved '96 Impala SS and Caprice.

[SAmadei]

Exactly, I don't want to see GMC make cars. If they do it has to be Pontiac by GMC and Oldsmobile by GMC. The last affordable RWD full size RWD four door is the much loved '96 Impala SS and Caprice.

The whole Pontiac/Olds by GMC is VERY interesting... as a way to get around dealership and governmental issues... but I don't want a GMC emblem on it... or want it titled as a GMC.

[gm4life]

The whole Pontiac/Olds by GMC is VERY interesting... as a way to get around dealership and governmental issues... but I don't want a GMC emblem on it... or want it titled as a GMC.

Correct it needs a red arrow head, having said that they can call it whatever they want on the title, just not on the car.

[Blake Noble]

I've let go of buying any sort of new, rear-wheel drive car from GM and I'm more than content with distracting myself with vintage, rear-drive GM iron until further notice. Honestly, there isn't a soul in the world that needs a 100-year, 1,000,000 mile warranty and the aroma of new car smell or modern luxuries like fuel injection, air bags, and traction control. Yes, it's all nice to have, but you don't really need it and once you stop convincing yourself it's all necessary, there's a whole world of great, affordable rear-drive cars waiting for you, late model and classic alike.

Of course, I do understand some of the things I mentioned really are important to some people (but, still, you don't really need it).

[CanadianBacon94]

I've let go of buying any sort of new, rear-wheel drive car from GM and I'm more than content with distracting myself with vintage, rear-drive GM iron until further notice. Honestly, there isn't a soul in the world that needs a 100-year, 1,000,000 mile warranty and the aroma of new car smell or modern luxuries like fuel injection, air bags, and traction control. Yes, it's all nice to have, but you don't really need it and once you stop convincing yourself it's all necessary, there's a whole world of great, affordable rear-drive cars waiting for you, late model and classic alike.

Of course, I do understand some of the things I mentioned really are important to some people (but, still, you don't really need it).

The zeta for me would be the in order of importance AWD 350 horse v8 LW (with cowl induction hood )

by the way i think this should be the impala and the fwd should be the caprice

[Blake Noble]

The zeta for me would be the in order of importance AWD 350 horse v8 LW (with cowl induction hood )

That is a nice new car recipe, indeed.

As far as a new car recipe for me goes, the pieces fit like: Alpha, two-door coupe, small-block V8 power, manual transmission, black paint, arrowhead badge.

Of course they already built something like that 32 years ago for me.

by the way i think this should be the impala and the fwd should be the caprice

In all honesty, I think the Impala name needs to take a hiatus or go rear-drive.

[gm4life]

I've let go of buying any sort of new, rear-wheel drive car from GM and I'm more than content with distracting myself with vintage, rear-drive GM iron until further notice. Honestly, there isn't a soul in the world that needs a 100-year, 1,000,000 mile warranty and the aroma of new car smell or modern luxuries like fuel injection, air bags, and traction control. Yes, it's all nice to have, but you don't really need it and once you stop convincing yourself it's all necessary, there's a whole world of great, affordable rear-drive cars waiting for you, late model and classic alike.

Of course, I do understand some of the things I mentioned really are important to some people (but, still, you don't really need it).

You see I can't. I would love a classic GM RWD car or two someday, but for me the comfort (peace of mind) and warranty all make a difference to me. Problem is I am not going to try to drive a 25 year old car on my 3,000-5,000 mile family vacation, nor put up with all the little issues with one as a daily driver. Aside of getting a freshly restored one from the buttom up it just simply couldn't do the same task as say yes a boring new car, and if I could afford a restored one it wouldn't be driven across the country or to work everyday anyways. So that leaves the classic for a weekend/nice weather toy, and a yes boring late model GM car for other.

My question is simple why can't GM sell the Caprice PPV to us, because for me the Camaro is just a little too small. (My head hits the roof when inside with a sunroof) So yes, I want a practical fullsize four door Zeta based RWD car from Chevrolet, and they already have them around the world so why can't we get them? (The rumored Chevy 'SS' would be great also!) Also a nice GTOish, 2+2 couldn't hurt, either and would make a great Chevelle.

Do I want it both ways? Certainly the peace of mind of a new car with the soul/spirit of a RWD V8 powered beast. But really is that too much to ask for?

Edited December 17, 2009 by gm4life