E-Mail From My Neighbor In Delaware

[Oracle of Delphi]

He traded in his two 2006 Chrysler Grand Cherokees (wife and his) for two Toyota RAV4s. This is a person who always bought Chrysler. I asked why, he wrote back, I never thought I would buy a foreign car, but it was just a better deal ...

I have taken him off my e-mail list ...

Edited November 29, 2009 by Oracle of Delphi

[Camino LS6]

Boo!

Send him all the bad news about Toyota instead of taking him off your e-mail list.

[caddycruiser]

Better deal...oh, good move there. Really good.

Sounds like the kind of person my father works with who had a Civic that was a few years old, "really liked" the new Malibu and wanted to step up a size, asked my father about my mother's and his opinion and went to ONE dealer locally to check one out, drive again, and go to buy. The result? Still a yes on the car but he didn't like the too low trade value they gave for his Civic, said heck with GM and the Malibu all together and went to a Honda dealer farther away "because they gave more for his Civic" and bought an Accord. An Accord that, and I quote, was described as "it's nice, I liked the Malibu, but this was a better deal."

Why he didn't try another Chevy dealer, why he didn't, etc., etc. all just to go back and buy an Accord because they gave him the trade price he wanted? As I said, then he really didn't like or want the Malibu then, it was all about the easy deal. A valid point to make, absolutely, and you get one shot with a lot of people, but alas.

[Drew Dowdell]

Probably paid more for the Accord too... but got "more in trade" on the Civic.

[A Horse With No Name]

The whole car business is so irrational it just makes me want to scream.

No wonder CARBIZ rants and raves like he does.

I do NOT like the new Accord...even the coupe I find just really awkward.

Chris

[caddycruiser]

Probably paid more for the Accord too... but got "more in trade" on the Civic.

You got it

The scarier thing? My father was telling me the story in a way to "prove" something to me about GM, the Malibu, and more so the local dealer I talk about all the time and/or try to recommend. Like he drank the Koolaid.

Borger started with a perfect example of this. "Why'd you buy 2 Rav4's?" They were a good deal. "Was it the best little crossover you tested?" I don't know, I only went to the Toyota dealer after the newspaper ad price I saw...Toyota's are always the best.

Scary...but SO true of the real world. Even in regards to price. Someone will "sort of" be willing to try/want a new Xxx from another manufacturer, but unless the price is out of this world too in a lot of cases, no thanks. At least we have vehicles like the new Equinox/Terrain that are knocking so many people's socks off just based on the package, the price is almost a side factor...but thankfully also just right.

Edited November 30, 2009 by caddycruiser

[daves87rs]

Wow, that is just sad.

Talk about having no balls.....

[Drew Dowdell]

After driving a new Equinox for a week. The Chevy dealer deserves at least the courtesy of a visit.

[Justin Bimmer]

Someday I will go into business where I kidnap people looking for cars and take them to dealers to test stuff. I will blindfold them and cuff them and take them there.

How can I get this business to be legal?

[Delta Force79]

Someday I will go into business where I kidnap people looking for cars and take them to dealers to test stuff. I will blindfold them and cuff them and take them there.

How can I get this business to be legal?

Become a dictator and make it a law

[Camino LS6]

Call it an "intervention" and make it into a reality show.

[cletus8269]

... wonder how good the deal will seem when he loses the spare tires ala tacoma heheh

[regfootball]

the RAV4 is a terrible vehicle. I know from renting one once for a week. yuk. so many better choices.

[Delta Force79]

Call it an "intervention" and make it into a reality show.

Touche.

[PONTIAC06]

Call it an "intervention" and make it into a reality show.

ha ha ha...awesome

[Camino LS6]

Think I could sell the idea to Speed?

I could use the cash.

[Justin Bimmer]

Sure, if you want to sell it to speed I will expect creator's credits and royalties. I will have the contract drawn up

[Camino LS6]

Probably worth about $1,500 split two ways.

But hell, I'd take my $750 and smile.

[CaddyXLR-V]

My dad is actually considering buying a Toyota. He told me he's losing his patience with Chevy, he didn't go into details, but he has always been a Chevy man. He likes how easy to work on Toyotas are. He does auto body for a living, and said he wouldn't mind if all he worked on were Toyotas because they are so easy. Up until recently he wouldn't consider buying a car from anyone but the big 3.

Edited December 2, 2009 by CaddyXLR-V

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm sure it's a lot easier to bang out dents when the sheet metal is so thin....

[A Horse With No Name]

Awhile back I had to do an electrical repair in a body shop and they were putting a new roof on a Corolla. Who the hell fixes a Corolla that's been hurt so bad it needs a new roof?

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

the RAV4 is a terrible vehicle. I know from renting one once for a week. yuk. so many better choices.

RAV4 is one of the worst vehicles built IMHO.

Can't imagine wanting to own one...

Chris

[Robert Hall]

Someday I will go into business where I kidnap people looking for cars and take them to dealers to test stuff. I will blindfold them and cuff them and take them there.

How can I get this business to be legal?

Sounds like a variation on the Priceline ads w/ Shatner in the old Dodge van..

[caddycruiser]

Awhile back I had to do an electrical repair in a body shop and they were putting a new roof on a Corolla. Who the hell fixes a Corolla that's been hurt so bad it needs a new roof?

Chris

Oh...lots. Very common repair. In the end, if the structure isn't badly damaged, the roof is just another panel

Of course, on a Toyota...well...yeah...

[caddycruiser]

My dad is actually considering buying a Toyota. He told me he's losing his patience with Chevy, he didn't go into details, but he has always been a Chevy man. He likes how easy to work on Toyotas are. He does auto body for a living, and said he wouldn't mind if all he worked on were Toyotas because they are so easy. Up until recently he wouldn't consider buying a car from anyone but the big 3.

Again, funny the difference in people's thoughts. My brother is an auto body tech, and constantly comments on the "structure" and how different brands and models are really built, and that the Toyota, Kia, etc. vehicles he works on are scary in regards to assembly. Last example he gave me, somewhat, was how the lights, fenders, front structure, etc. all go together on a Camry "vs. something like a Malibu that's much more solid". I know he's skewed in saying so, but at the same time, an interesting perception conversation.

Has your father had problems with his Chevy or just "tired" of them in general? Again, it's all a perception, personal experiences, etc. thing and interesting to hear about different stories.

[A Horse With No Name]

Ummm...I have a wife and three daughters...and I'm kind of in the protective male mode. ASs I said before, we do electrical service for several body shops, so I see these cars being fixed. I've also spent more than my fair share of time in salvage yards.

MUCH prefer most of the GM and Euro stuff when it comes to safety. Agree with your brother, caddy cruiser.

And actually the car that suprises me is the Cobalt. I've seen a bunch of them hit hard...and they don't have a very good safety rating...but all of the ones I've seen in body shops and salvage yards seem to have protected the passengers/Driver VERY well.

Chris

[CaddyXLR-V]

Again, funny the difference in people's thoughts. My brother is an auto body tech, and constantly comments on the "structure" and how different brands and models are really built, and that the Toyota, Kia, etc. vehicles he works on are scary in regards to assembly. Last example he gave me, somewhat, was how the lights, fenders, front structure, etc. all go together on a Camry "vs. something like a Malibu that's much more solid". I know he's skewed in saying so, but at the same time, an interesting perception conversation.

Has your father had problems with his Chevy or just "tired" of them in general? Again, it's all a perception, personal experiences, etc. thing and interesting to hear about different stories.

Well I know the a/c has gone out on his trailblazer and so he had to wire in a switch to get it working again. I'm not sure what happened, maybe the control unit went out, but I think he bypassed it with a toggle switch. His Malibu had a ton of squeeks and rattles. He's been doing auto body for over 30 years, and he said Toyotas are much better designed and easier to work on.

[A Horse With No Name]

Depends on the era of the car, I think.

The older GM stuff isn't as well built as some of the "New GM" era stuff.

Chris

[Robert Hall]

Well I know the a/c has gone out on his trailblazer and so he had to wire in a switch to get it working again. I'm not sure what happened, maybe the control unit went out, but I think he bypassed it with a toggle switch. His Malibu had a ton of squeeks and rattles. He's been doing auto body for over 30 years, and he said Toyotas are much better designed and easier to work on.

I know 3 people that have owned GMT360s...one Trailblazer owner had nothing but problems w/ his '05, traded it on a 4Runner after less than 2 years..another had an Envoy XL, traded it on a Lexus GX after 3 years...another had an '07 TB, traded it on a Tahoe recently...

[caddycruiser]

Ummm...I have a wife and three daughters...and I'm kind of in the protective male mode. ASs I said before, we do electrical service for several body shops, so I see these cars being fixed. I've also spent more than my fair share of time in salvage yards.

MUCH prefer most of the GM and Euro stuff when it comes to safety. Agree with your brother, caddy cruiser.

And actually the car that suprises me is the Cobalt. I've seen a bunch of them hit hard...and they don't have a very good safety rating...but all of the ones I've seen in body shops and salvage yards seem to have protected the passengers/Driver VERY well.

Chris

I'd agree with it all, and in this aspect, actually mirrors exactly what he says daily. And as I agree, "just close the door on one vs. the other...you'll see it" when we were most recently talking about a craptastic new chintzy Camry vs. a solid little tank of a Malibu.

At least things like the "it's floor mats...no, we'll replace gas pedals...well, really, it's not either of those..." Toyota recalls give GM loving people like my mother (proud ) ammo when a certain Toyota loving co-worker says things like "yuck, I'd never drive a Chevy". "Oh, really...did you see the news today?" Oh, Toyota, and that continued perception of being gold...yet, get in a new Camry, Corolla, etc. or even look at them, and be amazed at the cheapness and even sloppy build quality more recently.

[Robert Hall]

At least things like the "it's floor mats...no, we'll replace gas pedals...well, really, it's not either of those..." Toyota recalls give GM loving people like my mother (proud ) ammo when a certain Toyota loving co-worker says things like "yuck, I'd never drive a Chevy". "Oh, really...did you see the news today?" Oh, Toyota, and that continued perception of being gold...yet, get in a new Camry, Corolla, etc. or even look at them, and be amazed at the cheapness and even sloppy build quality more recently.

I brought up the recent Toyota quality issues, recalls, etc w/ a co-worker recently and he responded that his Toyota was built in Japan and of highest quality and the ones w/ the problems were probably built in the US...ooooohhhkkkkk...

[cletus8269]

...right... cause its much more economical to ship whole cars that could say, be lost at sea or maybe damaged in transit than to ship the components over here and then assemble them. you think they would be interesting in my ocean front arizona ranch house?

[caddycruiser]

I brought up the recent Toyota quality issues, recalls, etc w/ a co-worker recently and he responded that his Toyota was built in Japan and of highest quality and the ones w/ the problems were probably built in the US...ooooohhhkkkkk...

Oh, LOTS of Toyota people say things like that. Then they get into comparing which rattles and which crooked panels their Japanese "better than the US built ones" cars have, hah!

Makes me think of the Edmunds.com threads that have been around for years with nothing but talk of new Avalon shoppers test driving multiples to "find the one with the least or no noticeable throttle/transmission lag". And that's accepted as normal. Of course. Seriously. I used to read these long chats and just... ...

[A Horse With No Name]

I dropped by a local Toyota dealer to check out the new Venzia or whatever the hell it is when I was in North Carolina. It felt as craptastic in the details as a Corolla.

When you think about it, driving a Toyota is sort of like sleeping with a fat woman who's really not into the whole sex thing.

Chris

[caddycruiser]

I dropped by a local Toyota dealer to check out the new Venzia or whatever the hell it is when I was in North Carolina. It felt as craptastic in the details as a Corolla.

When you think about it, driving a Toyota is sort of like sleeping with a fat woman who's really not into the whole sex thing.

Chris

SO true...and everyone I know who drives one has pretty much exactly that "feel" of it...it's no different than a dishwasher, and the most boring, frequently drab one of all.

I understand not everyone "cares" that much about their car, but in this world there are so many better choices even for boring to death people, they too often miss out. Oh well.

[A Horse With No Name]

Actually I think Toyota is going to loose customers as a result of its getting so deadly boring.

My middle daughter goes to high school at a school for the arts, and the principal, Paula is a very artistic, creative, thoughtful woman. She drives one of those edgy last generation Celicas. (Paula the principal, not my daughter) she has 160,000+ on the Celica and is going to be looking for another car. She's not a car person but she has a brain and a creative side. She's really turned off to everything Toyota is building right now, and will probably be looking outside of Toyota for her next car.

Even though the Celica has run flawlessly for 160,000 miles.

Chris

[CaddyXLR-V]

I'd agree with it all, and in this aspect, actually mirrors exactly what he says daily. And as I agree, "just close the door on one vs. the other...you'll see it" when we were most recently talking about a craptastic new chintzy Camry vs. a solid little tank of a Malibu.

Just close the door on a Mercedes or VW, you'll see it. In reality, they both suck to work on, and neither are very reliable.

[A Horse With No Name]

Actually Mercedees Benz is one of the longest lasting vehicles on the road...properly maintained they will run forever.

Friend of a friend runs a garage that is specialty mostly older Benzes...lots of cars from the 80's still rolling along like it was still the Reagan era...

...and don't tell the VW reliability thing to any of my VW TDI friends...the ones with 300,000+ and 400,000 plus miles on them. Were you in Ohio right now I could take you to a bunch of high miles VW TDI's that still run great. To these guys, 150,000 miles is just getting broken in.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

...and closing the door on a GTI VS. closing the door on a Camry is why my next non GM car will probably be a GTI or a TDI...if I can talk myself out of a Cooper S first.

Thinking a gently used Astra three door with a five speed might well be my next GM car. Close the door on an Astra and close it on a Camry. Hell, close it on a nu Bu and close it on a Camry. And it's not like I'm a Total Toyota H8R from the Toyota H8R's club. My wife drives a first gen xB and I know a lot of local Scion and Toyota guys.

I just prefer reality to fiction...and the reality is Toyota is pretty much wildly over rated.

Okay...as a TDI VW fan...maybe I enjoy H8ing on the Prius a little bit. Admire the Prisu fuel efficiency...but it isn't a drivers car like the TDI Golf or a whole bunch of other cars.

Chris

[CaddyXLR-V]

...and closing the door on a GTI VS. closing the door on a Camry is why my next non GM car will probably be a GTI or a TDI...if I can talk myself out of a Cooper S first.

Thinking a gently used Astra three door with a five speed might well be my next GM car. Close the door on an Astra and close it on a Camry. Hell, close it on a nu Bu and close it on a Camry. And it's not like I'm a Total Toyota H8R from the Toyota H8R's club. My wife drives a first gen xB and I know a lot of local Scion and Toyota guys.

I just prefer reality to fiction...and the reality is Toyota is pretty much wildly over rated.

Okay...as a TDI VW fan...maybe I enjoy H8ing on the Prius a little bit. Admire the Prisu fuel efficiency...but it isn't a drivers car like the TDI Golf or a whole bunch of other cars.

Chris

First, let me say that I don't like Toyotas, and I do like a lot of VWs, and I would buy another VW. But I'm not going to try to convince anyone that VWs are more reliable than Toyotas, because they're not. The sound of the door closing does not tell you how easy to work on, or how reliable a vehicle is.

[Robert Hall]

...and closing the door on a GTI VS. closing the door on a Camry is why my next non GM car will probably be a GTI or a TDI...if I can talk myself out of a Cooper S first.

Okay...as a TDI VW fan...maybe I enjoy H8ing on the Prius a little bit. Admire the Prisu fuel efficiency...but it isn't a drivers car like the TDI Golf or a whole bunch of other cars.

Chris

Isn't there a GTD version of the Golf coming also? GTI+TDI=GTD. I think it's on sale in Europe already.

[A Horse With No Name]

GTD gets the 170 HP diesel...which we won't get. However, the Golf TDI does get the sport suspension from the GTI, so we are good!

Chris