When will the GTO concept appear?

[evok]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/02/07/rep...ld-another-gto/

Na I was pulling everyones leg.

[hyperv6]

Zeta died before too.

[evok]

Zeta died before too.

It never died, rwd just went back to the drawing board. I have the Lutz memo somwhere.

[hyperv6]

It never died, rwd just went back to the drawing board.  I have the Lutz memo somwhere.

I know with in GM Zeta did not die in reality. I knew it was still alive before GM anounced the delay in not so many words last March.

My point of the Zeta Died is it died in Motor Trend, Edmunds and many other web sites that week. I don't base anything off these sites. There may be changes coming but it is not always the end of the world.

[evok]

So do you still think you are going to get a GTO concept?

[Camino LS6]

I could see it going straight to production without a public concept car.

[evok]

I could see it going straight to production without a public concept car.

I see it going no where.

[91z4me]

I see it going no where.

Could GM have a FIRE somewhere? Or would someone give the brand the BIRD?

[Sixty8panther]

I see it going no where.

Alright... I'll admit perhaps I spoke too soon, MT says no GTO so maybe there will be no GTO but theor reasoning is also just: No Concept, no 2nd gen. Holden Goat.

Time will tell.

If not the GTO then what will be Pontiac's flagship?

[Ghost Dog]

Alright... I'll admit perhaps I spoke too soon, MT says no GTO so maybe there will be no GTO but theor reasoning is also just: No Concept, no 2nd gen. Holden Goat.

Time will tell.

If not the GTO then what will be Pontiac's flagship?

The question I think Should be what will Buick/Pontiac's Flagship be. From what we've been reading. Buick/ Pontiac one showroom, no overlap. That's GM's goal right? Pontiac gets to live on in that manner?

Enclave and Lucerne for now?

Edited February 9, 2006 by Ghost Dog

[evok]

Alright... I'll admit perhaps I spoke too soon, MT says no GTO so maybe there will be no GTO but theor reasoning is also just: No Concept, no 2nd gen. Holden Goat.

Time will tell.

If not the GTO then what will be Pontiac's flagship?

G6? Torrent?

[hyperv6]

If it ends up a GTO by name may still be up in the air but Pontiac will have a sedan and coupe with nich performance overtones not seen in Chevy or Buick.

One thing unless GM state differently there will not be a Firebird. I expect a concept but will it be named GTO?

The G6 will not carry Pontiac nor will FWD. Also the Torrent is nice but they do not need a SUV, leave it to GMC.

Pontiac could use a MINI type car, the Solstice, a RWD car to replace the G6 and a larger RWD sedan and coupe to replace the GTO and GP. Leave the Lexus luxo type stuff to Buick. Pontiac does not need a lot of cars in the line up just ones that count! A car line a Saturn owner will step up too when they become the Opel of America.

Keep the little and smaller cars away from Buick. Let them do the large Sedans and luxo crossovers. Buick needs to target Lexus and Infinity. Pontiac needs to target Acura, Audi and BMW under 50K. Let Caddy do war over 50K BMW and Mercedes.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Let Buick do large sedans and crossovers? But that's Buick now-how are they going to get ANYWHERE at all by just doing that if they're not doing so now? They need to branch out into where luxury is going-its not just about large sedans and crossovers. Its about style, sophistication, features, and size and to a certain extent, variety. Why would Pontiac target Audi, Acura, or BMW? Pontiac is not a luxury or near-luxury brand and they never have been, and never ever will be. I see Pontiac as more of a rival to Mazda and Dodge, though with both, they've been failing miserably. I do agree with you however on the G6 and front-wheel-drive points-they should not be Pontiac's lone reasons for existence. It needs Piranha (think of the 3), a shorter-wheelbase/increased passenger/cargo room, far more stylish G6 (that effiency thing), a redesigned Bonneville (and Grand Prix for a mid-size, rear-drive version), and Firebird and GTO, and maybe an Aztek, based on Theta with sporty, but not awkward styling. Think Vibe plus Equinox plus the sloping, fastback rear hatch of Aztek.

Edited February 12, 2006 by Mule Bakersdozen LS

[hyperv6]

Let Buick do large sedans and crossovers? But that's Buick now-how are they going to get ANYWHERE at all by just doing that if they're not doing so now? They need to branch out into where luxury is going-its not just about large sedans and crossovers. Its about style, sophistication, features, and size and to a certain extent, variety. Why would Pontiac target Audi, Acura, or BMW? Pontiac is not a luxury or near-luxury brand and they never have been, and never ever will be. I see Pontiac as more of a rival to Mazda and Dodge, though with both, they've been failing miserably. I do agree with you however on the G6 and front-wheel-drive points-they should not be Pontiac's lone reasons for existence. It needs Piranha (think of the 3), a shorter-wheelbase/increased passenger/cargo room, far more stylish G6 (that effiency thing), a redesigned Bonneville (and Grand Prix for a mid-size, rear-drive version), and Firebird and GTO, and maybe an Aztek, based on Theta with sporty, but not awkward styling. Think Vibe plus Equinox plus the sloping, fastback rear hatch of Aztek.

Well Pontiac needs to target Low end Audi and BMW not the high end.

Dodge is Chevys problem and Mazda is Saturns problem.

Pontiac is not going to be a full line offering and can addord to compete in the nich market of RWD perfromance models. A Buick. Pontiac, GMC dealer will offer cars to handle the low end near luxury market in both large Lexus like sedans and crossovers and let Pontiac address the performance sedan and coupe market.

Even in the good old days Buick was far down the list of performance enthusiast. They had good product but between price and image performance guys went for the cheaper more basic cars.

Solstice is fine just make sure to update and add options and special editions to keep interst. Added performance to keep ahead is important.

G6 Good volume car but with a new Malibu coming is it needed? A Small RWD sporting sedan would make a great entry level performance car to reach the youth market. A 4 door 2 door and even a Nomad like small wagon or kam back would fit the bill here. The wagon needs to be trendy like the Mini Cooper.

GP/GTO/Bonnie Here is the place you replace 3 cars with 2. No rental offerings here. Cars should be offered with most options but performance themed over all. A sport coupe and sport sedan should be offered. Strong V8 and V6 engien with large tires and sport suspensions only. No value leaders here that is Chevys job.

These cars need not to match the compitition but beat the compitions in all areas of performance and quality. I have no problem with the GTO name but lose the G8. Pontiac can't afford a name like G8 and then have the G8 council in Europe do something against the United States. That would be like naming a car the Sadam.

I would ditch the Vibe [not even a GM car anyway] and all the rest of the SUV/Mini van like badge swapped like vehicles. The only thing that does concern me here is the Dodge Caliber. The performanc looks good but will people buy the SUV/Mini Van/sedan styling. I would like to think not but in todays market this could end up being a home run. I just can't call this one. This is where the mini trendy performance wagon would help.

If GM moves foward with AWD options on any of these platforms make Pontiac the primary dealer of AWD. You might also offer it on Buicks sedans also [same Dealer].

Pontiac has for a long time pretended to be Americas Euro performance Sedan since the days of John D. This is there chance to do it and do it right. They do not have to worry selling as many cars a Chevy. Buick and Pontiac would again be stepping stones to Caddy now that Caddy is becoming a world player.

Pontiac and Buick needs to eliminate all rebadged Chevys. They need to make their cars their own.

My feeling is GM is marketing to the low end luxury and performance market. If you look at the road racing they are involved with and the companies they are racing that is their target market. As for the NHRA I am not sure where they are going here other than they have been there a long time and it may be a good value [cheap].

Anyway the Buick, Pontiac, GMC dealers can and should thrive as long as they don't offere rebadged Chevys. Chevy would intern benifit with the wide range of cars they offere at great pricing with out competing with the other GM divisions.

Now that I think of it I would leave Saturn to compete with Acura and Mazda vs Pontiac. Their Euro presents and FWD would set them apart from the others.

Now if we only knew what the Chinese and Koreans would be doing in 5 years? They are the one's I fear.

Edited February 13, 2006 by hyperv6

[Robert Hall]

G6?  Torrent?

Grand Prix?

[dav305z]

If not the GTO then what will be Pontiac's flagship?

From the way things are being described, a tombstone.

[ehaase]

If I recall correctly, Pontiac sold roughly 12,000 Grand Prix's and 16,000 G6's in January. Even if 40 percent of those are fleet, those are still a lot of retail sales for GM. Not replacing the Grand Prix would be a mistake, in my opinion.

[Sixty8panther]

G6?  Torrent?

That's more pathetic than trying to say the Citation was Chevy's flagship.

A flagship is a Infiniti Q, a Cadillac STS-V, '96 Impala SS, BMW M5, not some FWD compact car or wussy Cute-ute.

[ToniCipriani]

I don't get why Pontiac can't go against Mazda, even if it doesn't have a full lineup. Saturn should focus on VeeDub.

Mazda doesn't have a full lineup anyways. Their largest car so far is the Mazda 6, which in turns goes against G6.

I have a feeling in the far future Mazda will be merged with Ford dealerships.

[91z4me]

I don't get why Pontiac can't go against Mazda, even if it doesn't have a full lineup. Saturn should focus on VeeDub.

Mazda doesn't have a full lineup anyways. Their largest car so far is the Mazda 6, which in turns goes against G6.

I have a feeling in the far future Mazda will be merged with Ford dealerships.

It would be better suited for Mazda to be paired with Mercury of LM instead of Ford. Ford is a true full lineup and mercury really isn't. Mercury could be larger more lux vehicles and Mazda could be smaller more sporty counterparts.

[hyperv6]

Here is Lutz on a Pontiac version of the Camaro. This backs up what cott S has stated on the Camaro site. The Bird id dead. If a new coupe comes it will be a GTO or a GTO like Coupe that would much different than the Camaro.

HOT CAMARO CONCEPT WILL BECOME A REALITY

It is now clear that the car that made the biggest waves at the Detroit auto show was the Camaro concept. It is now an open secret that it will be built.

"Ever since the first day I got to General Motors I've been getting mail from Camaro owners, Camaro clubs, Camaro fanatics," Lutz said during the show. "It's like a cult following out there.

"I've been telling them, just wait until the Detroit auto show. I think you'll be pleased. But most of the e-mails lately have been, 'Hey, you've been there four years already. Where's our Camaro?' "

If the car goes into production, he said, "it would be priced right down with the Mustang."

How much? "It will be an astonishing value."

And there would be no -- repeat, no -- Pontiac version of the sporty two-door, Lutz said.

That kind of badge engineering "is what got us in trouble in the first place," he said of GM's woes during an interview at the show.

GM, Lutz said, suffers from "too many years of doing cars and trucks that were OK. We don't do that anymore. We do beyond OK."

For instance, he said, look back at how GM bean-counters and product engineers mismanaged the original Camaro into well-deserved oblivion.

"We got too far away from the original role of the car. It became too streamlined. The passenger compartment became too compromised. It became too expensive. It became too heavy. It became a car that just lost its way -- the same as the Ford Mustang did for awhile.

"There was a time when all of the original pony cars got bigger and bigger and heavier and heavier and more and more expensive and suddenly nobody could afford them anymore."

Just have to see what happens.

[NOS2006]

Key word: version.

In other words, they could have a sporty Pontiac RWD coupe, but it won't look anything like the Camaro. Badge engineering is what got them in trouble in the first place, not true engineering.

Edited February 22, 2006 by NOS2006