The Chevrolet Spark

[ocnblu]

Please discuss the possibility of a Chevrolet Spark being added to Chevy's US lineup.

I think it's a horrible idea, and an ugly little POS car.

Edited November 21, 2009 by ocnblu

[PONTIAC06]

When compared to the Aveo, I'm not sure why this is such a bad idea. It looks overly busy from certain angles, and there are certain details that I could live w/o, but I'm not really the target market for this car either. If this car makes financial/economical sense for GM to sell here then I think they should do it.

[Camino LS6]

Yup.

It's hideous, but that doesn't mean it won't sell.

I would never own such a thing, but it may have a market, and it would help with CAFE.

[Satty]

Yeah, GM needs to let Honda and Toyota have the subcompact hatch market, that'll teach those other carmakers to produce profits and not have to get bailouts from the U.S. government.

I bet that if it were the Pontiac Spark, you'd be jizzing over it.

And how can you call something that hasn't entered production yet a POS?

Edited November 21, 2009 by Satty

[Cadillacfan]

Please discuss the possibility of a Chevrolet Spark being added to Chevy's US lineup.

I think it's a horrible idea, and an ugly little POS car.

Not everyone will like the styling of this car but why is it a horrible idea that GM wants to bring it here? Toyota and Kia both have vehicles entering this city car segment soon and the smaller Smart car is already selling pretty well. Gas prices will soar again as soon as the economy rebounds completely and people start buying again. GM's lack of good compact and subcompact vehicles during the time when we had $4 gas prices is what got GM helped lead the company to the problems it had last year at this time. Shouldn't GM be prepared?

Edited November 21, 2009 by Cadillacfan

[SAmadei]

I bet that if it were the Pontiac Spark, you'd be jizzing over it.

That would be a Pontiac G2... and if they made a coupe version, I'd buy one for parking purposes in NYC.

Instead, I have to consider the Smart, Mini, Fiesta coupe, Toyota IQ, etc.

[pow]

I don't like it - I'd much rather have a Fiesta, Fit, 208, 500, Polo, or MINI - but it's no worse than the current Cobalt, Aveo, etc., and those vehicles sell.

[ocnblu]

Honestly, I wouldn't drive anything smaller than what I've got. The Spark is ugly and Americans, as a rule, are not comfortable in tiny penalty boxes. Studies have shown that people who traded their comfortable vehicles for tiny ones as a result of the $4 gasoline spike are remorseful. If we have another spike, and people feel they are forced into these pedal cars, the result will still be the same... a bunch of unhappy owners. It is a no-win for any manufacturer.

How would you like to be in charge of trying to market something like this to Americans? Something you KNOW they do not want? It's impossible.

And Satty, please move soon. I like you when you're a smartass, but not an a-hole.

[Blake Noble]

Yeah, GM needs to let Honda and Toyota have the subcompact hatch market, that'll teach those other carmakers to produce profits and not have to get bailouts from the U.S. government.

That sums it up.

I personally wouldn't buy a Spark, but it has its place.

I bet that if it were the Pontiac Spark, you'd be jizzing over it.

The personal rancor reflected in that remark I don't intend to dignify with comment.

And how can you call something that hasn't entered production yet a POS?

Aside from fit and finish, materials used, refinement, and so on, we do know what the design looks like. That's where initial judgment is coming from.

[Cadillacfan]

Honestly, I wouldn't drive anything smaller than what I've got. The Spark is ugly and Americans, as a rule, are not comfortable in tiny penalty boxes. Studies have shown that people who traded their comfortable vehicles for tiny ones as a result of the $4 gasoline spike are remorseful. If we have another spike, and people feel they are forced into these pedal cars, the result will still be the same... a bunch of unhappy owners. It is a no-win for any manufacturer.

How would you like to be in charge of trying to market something like this to Americans? Something you KNOW they do not want? It's impossible.

And Satty, please move soon. I like you when you're a smartass, but not an a-hole.

With all due respect, you don't speak for every American. If every car built required 100% public support or catered to the most buyers, we wouldn't see great cars like the Camaro, CTS-V, CTS Wagon, or the Corvette. Instead, every car would look and drive like as plainly as a Toyota Camry. I'm not saying you're wrong believing that most people would prefer to buy cars that were large and comfortable but, the reality is that not everyone can afford a $15,000 compact car or want to spend a lot of money on fueling up their car. Smaller cars, as a rule, get much better the mileage than larger cars. There are quite a few people out there who would think this is the perfect car for them. It would be a mistake for GM to not offer a car in this segment.

Personally, I would never drive a car like this and nobody is saying that GM should only be building cars like this, but it does serve the growing city car segment and people will buy it if the need it... even if they don't want to.

[ocnblu]

Well, first things first. They have to make the Aveo replacement into something desirable before they go shoving the Spark down our throats, and they already have a strike 1 with news it will be a five-door only.

[Robert Hall]

Well, first things first. They have to make the Aveo replacement into something desirable before they go shoving the Spark down our throats, and they already have a strike 1 with news it will be a five-door only.

I don't think they are 'shoving it down anyone's throats', and the Spark is below the Aveo, as the entry level model (i.e. Matiz replacement), and would be a new niche for Chevy in the US. I assume the development of the NG Aveo is on track also..(rumored to be called Viva in some markets?). I don't see why you are so negative on this--obviously, you aren't the target consumer..

Anyway, since Buick dealers don't have Pontiac for the G3 anymore, I wonder if Buick will get a lux version of the NG Aveo to fill that niche?

Edited November 21, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Camino LS6]

I predict a big win for the first automaker to build something in this segment that isn't butt ugly. At least during the next run-up in gas prices.

All current offerings are awful eyesores.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Camino LS6

[z28luvr01]

I understand the reasons for its existence, but I will not be caught dead in one.

[ocnblu]

Ford has decided not to bring their Ka to the US, citing its small size. Volkswagen has decided to dilute their handsome new Polo for US customers by making it bigger (a mistake, imo, as I believe it is B-segment and fine as is). I am not the only person who thinks this way.

Edited November 21, 2009 by ocnblu

[Robert Hall]

Ford has decided not to bring their Ka to the US, citing its small size. Volkswagen has decided to dilute their handsome new Polo for US customers by making it bigger (a mistake, imo, as I believe it is B-segment and fine as is). I am not the only person who thinks this way.

Being 3dr only would limit the Ka's potential in the US..however, the Fiat 500 which it is based on is coming here. With a 5dr, the Spark has more sales potential than the 3dr only Ka.

[A Horse With No Name]

I predict a big win for the first automaker to build something in this segment that isn't butt ugly. At least during the next run-up in gas prices.

All current offerings are awful eyesores.

Fiat FTW!

Seriously, the K car helped saved Chrysler before, a smartly styled and built subcompact might save chryco's bacon now.

Not every small car is a penalty box...and gas prices will go through the roof in the next decade.

Expect cars like the Camaro and CTS to go away. I'm not saying this because I am happy about it, I am saying it because I think its reality. The free market will do for fuel savings what CAFE standards can't or won't.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Ford has decided not to bring their Ka to the US, citing its small size. Volkswagen has decided to dilute their handsome new Polo for US customers by making it bigger (a mistake, imo, as I believe it is B-segment and fine as is). I am not the only person who thinks this way.

Ford is going to have a huge winner on its hands in about three years with this car IMHO.

Chris

[Cadillacfan]

Well, first things first. They have to make the Aveo replacement into something desirable before they go shoving the Spark down our throats, and they already have a strike 1 with news it will be a five-door only.

Shoving down our throats?! Why is offering a new model in a growing segment equate to GM forcing us to buy something that we don't want? This is one car in a full lineup of new Chevrolet cars that vary in size. You'll have plenty of options. You DON'T have to buy it. . Some people like cars like this... I know.. it's so weird that other people have different opinions than you, isn't it? Why is it so horrible that GM's considering them important to growth of the brand? You really aren't making a lot of sense.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Cadillacfan

[Robert Hall]

2011 Aveo

Here's an article on the '11 Aveo. So potentially by '11-12, Chevy NA will have plenty of B- and C- seg FWD models for the mainstream to choose from--Spark, Aveo, Cruze, Volt.

And the FWD Malibu and Impala in the mid and larger size, and the Corvette, Camaro, and Caprice PPV/SS for RWD fans.

Sounds like a lot of variety.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Croc]

I'm with Satty. I'd personally never be caught dead in a Camaro, but I won't go raining on all of your parades about it.

[pow]

2011 Aveo

That's not looking too bad, actually. The side mirrors look like something you'd find on a Golf.

[regfootball]

if GM can make the numbers work, it doesn't hurt to have 20k of them in the US a year, just to keep an entry in the segment. it makes no sense to build it here though.

as someone said, there will be an ongoing 'city car' niche that GM needs to remain represented in. to bad the spark is childish and ugly.

[Camino LS6]

I'd personally never be caught dead in a Camaro, but I won't go raining on all of your parades about it.

Why?

Just curious.

I can understand why you might not want to buy one, but I don't get "never be caught dead in a Camaro" bit. Don't you think it might be fun to cruise around in one for a day?

OTOH, I can see why many people might feel that way about a Spark or similar car.

[Camino LS6]

if GM can make the numbers work, it doesn't hurt to have 20k of them in the US a year, just to keep an entry in the segment. it makes no sense to build it here though.

as someone said, there will be an ongoing 'city car' niche that GM needs to remain represented in. to bad the spark is childish and ugly.

Just about sums it up.

[A Horse With No Name]

To me, I'd take about anything unique and unusual to cruise around in for a day.

Chris

[Croc]

Why?

Just curious.

I can understand why you might not want to buy one, but I don't get "never be caught dead in a Camaro" bit. Don't you think it might be fun to cruise around in one for a day?

OTOH, I can see why many people might feel that way about a Spark or similar car.

Only because you asked, I've always found the Camaro to be a bit vulgar. Love the Corvette, but the Camaro has just never had any real appeal to me. I even liked the Firebird better than the Camaro.

[ocnblu]

Of course. The subtle screaming chicken decal that covered the entire hood, fender vents, lower body spats and spoilers all convey a conservative vibe when compared to the Camaro. I see what you're saying.

[Croc]

Of course. The subtle screaming chicken decal that covered the entire hood, fender vents, lower body spats and spoilers all convey a conservative vibe when compared to the Camaro. I see what you're saying.

Take the decals off and the design IMO was stronger. I didn't say the Firebird was conservative. I said I "even" liked it better. I'm NOT the target buyer for either model.

[ocnblu]

Try growing your hair just a LITTLE BIT longer in the back, just once. You might feel a bit liberated!

[Croc]

I didn't say that.

[Camino LS6]

Only because you asked, I've always found the Camaro to be a bit vulgar. Love the Corvette, but the Camaro has just never had any real appeal to me. I even liked the Firebird better than the Camaro.

Interesting.

[ShadowDog]

If a small-car market didn't exist in the U.S., why should the import manufacturers be fighting the market of none? Oh, I see, there actually is a market and the only people blind to that are ones buying all the trucks and SUVs. I also forgot that the U.S. isn't the center of the universe and the Spark is also sold all across the globe. I just knew there was a reason for its existence!

So some people don't like it. Good for them. GMs policy of making cars that everyone is supposed to appreciate is a complete and utter failure. Oh, that policy doesn't exist? Hmm. Just by reading here it seemed like it did.

As mentioned, would it be fair if everything we didn't like about THE most popular vehicles in GMs lineup was brought onto the table to bicker over? Would there be acceptance of that at all? Not bloody likely, not here; which is why those opinions are rarely expressed. It is easy to foresee the response from those thinking any negative comment on their vehicle of choice would be like talking about yo-mamma.

[Camino LS6]

Would anyone here buy a Spark?

Would enough people buy one to make it worth GM's efforts to make it available?

Those are open questions.

Demand for such extreme microcars seems to have a shelf-life measured in weeks and months rather than years, so I have my doubts about the viability of such a product.

Still, if an attractive one could be designed, it could sell on that strength alone. I'm just not sure that it's possible.

[CARBIZ]

Cars like this are a hedge that future gas prices WILL hit $5+ a gallon in the not too distant future. The Aveo/G3, Smart, etc have all done well in urban areas of Canada BECAUSE we are used to $4 a gallon gas.

When the world economy rebounds in late '10 or '11, you can bet the price of oil will start climbing and all those V8 Camaros, the new CTS coupe, etc. won't be the vehicles people are lining up for, WHETHER 'ENTHUSIASTS' LIKE IT OR NOT.

[A Horse With No Name]

I'm Carbiz on this one. Which is why I'm bull-ish on Chryco with Fiat as the owner.

500FTW!

Chris

[Robert Hall]

Been there, done that w/ 4.50 a gallon gas. Rather than a tiny subcompact, I'd rather have a Zeta (Camaro, Caprice, etc) w/ a diesel. Alas, GM has dropped the ball on diesels for NA.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[A Horse With No Name]

BMW 330D, Cubitar?

VW Golf TDI FTW!

Chris

[Camino LS6]

I think the thing to remember here, is that even in a world of $5/gal. gas, cars like the Spark are at the extreme end of the spectrum. Couple that with a known cultural resistance to tiny cars, and the wisdom of selling the car comes into question.

Might be a good idea, might not.

It would certainly be a gamble.

[Robert Hall]

BMW 330D, Cubitar?

VW Golf TDI FTW!

Chris

330D is cool, but it's 50 large...rather have a CTS for that price. I'd love to get something like a Caprice PPV w/ a diesel, or a Camaro w/ a diesel for $35k or so.... a full size sedan w/ a diesel and a manual or a coupe w/ the same would be so cool.

[Camino LS6]

On the diesel front, I think the government needs to relax the restrictions just a skosh - the benefits are to big too ignore.

[A Horse With No Name]

Think of it as part of a complete portfolio. Here in Ohio farm country, people will still buy trucks at $5.00 a gallon.

People will still buy Camaros. There will be a market for small cars.

The challenge for GM is to put $ on the bottom line. The Aveo is a decent bargain basement car. However, I would be willing to bet that the margin on a MINI, C30 Volvo, GTI VW, et al is a LOT more than the general makes on a Cobalt.

GM needs to build a segment leader and be able to price it as such.

Around here, the Fit sells for sticker, while the local Nissan dealers and the local Toyopet dealers are selling the Versa and the Yaris at fire sale prices.

GM needs to go at this with the idea that they will make money from this car and that it will be a unique car people will want. Given how pathetic the Yaris, Aveo, Smart, Suzuki, et al products are, GM should be able to do this. Should be like fishing with dynamite.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

On the diesel front, I think the government needs to relax the restrictions just a skosh - the benefits are to big too ignore.

I agree.

The TDI VW's are getting about 39-48 MPG for the 09-10 models, and they are giving up about M 10 MPG jsut to meet the EPA guidelines.

Can you say "Prius Killer" if they did?

Chris

[Camino LS6]

Diesel would help to gain some breathing space and time for adaptations to be made - could be a big part of the puzzle.

I think the microcar thing is a tougher nut to crack, a segment leader just one notch up from it might have a better chance of making a difference - and a profit.

[Robert Hall]

I agree.

The TDI VW's are getting about 39-48 MPG for the 09-10 models, and they are giving up about M 10 MPG jsut to meet the EPA guidelines.

Can you say "Prius Killer" if they did?

Chris

The Jetta and Golf TDIs are just so much nicer as cars than the Prius IMHO, not just the mileage numbers. I haven't driven a diesel, but I have driven an '08 Jetta...very nice car..felt quite solid, very nice interior design and detailing.

[A Horse With No Name]

They are about eleven billion times better IMHO.

The Cruze should be a winner if the general can pull the fuel economy #'s they are talking.

And I do think the VOLT will do VERY well for GM, thankyouverymuch.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

They are about eleven billion times better IMHO.

The Cruze should be a winner if the general can pull the fuel economy #'s they are talking.

And I do think the VOLT will do VERY well for GM, thankyouverymuch.

Chris

Agreed.

Even an Aveo sized car might do well (if styled exceptionally well), but the Spark is just too goofy and small IMO.

[ocnblu]

With the upcoming Cruze at 40 mpg... why on earth would anyone sacrifice their safety, comfort and coolness quotient by driving a Spark at, what, 42 mpg?

[A Horse With No Name]

Sad to say that we may be reaching the end of what we can do with conventional gas motors.

Cruze, if it really gets 40, should be killer.

Chris

[daves87rs]

Not everyone will like the styling of this car but why is it a horrible idea that GM wants to bring it here? Toyota and Kia both have vehicles entering this city car segment soon and the smaller Smart car is already selling pretty well. Gas prices will soar again as soon as the economy rebounds completely and people start buying again. GM's lack of good compact and subcompact vehicles during the time when we had $4 gas prices is what got GM helped lead the company to the problems it had last year at this time. Shouldn't GM be prepared?

This pretty much sums up my feelings as well...

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

End of story....