remember this classic Challenger?

[Sixty8panther]

- Hemi motor

- RWD

- Coupe Styling

- made in 1979!

[HarleyEarl]

Yep, Challengers and Mustangs were not always the fire breathing muscles cars that most dream of. Camaro really always stayed true. It didn't slap the name on some lamer.

[Sixty8panther]

The only car to survive the 1970s without having it's soul ripped out was the Pontiac Firebird/TRans Am...

As much as I love the Camaro it did get a bit lame there for a few years. It's not that there's anything wrong with a late 70s Camaro with a 305... they sold like hot cakes, but still the Firebird/TA always somehow escaped the safety/mpg/emissions-nazis.

I love to see restored 1979 Camaros at the carshows but I'd take any 70s Trans Am over it in a heartbeat.

I think by the time the 70s ended the Mustang name was in the dumpster because of the Mustang II. (biggest POS to ever try to call itself a pony car) Horrible styling and terrible stance.... too compact and a lack of any V8s made that car lamer than the Pinto!

The Camaro had doen very well for itself... Chevy still made an effort even in 1974. By 1979 the light at the end of the tunnel probably vanished but the 3rd gen. would cahnge all that in 1982.

But the Firebird/TA? It owes NO appologies. The 6.6 was still a big motor (esp when a V8 Mustang did not even exist anymore) and the styling NEVER got lame. It was always a shapr looking car. I think a 1974 Firebird looks better than certain 1970/1971 Mopars that go for millions of dollars at Barrett Jackson.

Edited January 8, 2006 by Sixty8panther

[Sixty8panther]

and don't forget the gawd-awful (day late & $1 short) Mustang King Cobra.

What a lame attempt for copy the Screaming Chicken. So retarded. Even as a kid I laughed at those cars... and when I was not laughing I wondered how much LSD it took to make that car look less ugly.

[HarleyEarl]

Yes, you are right about the Firebird. It truely did stay the course. Camaro did falter a bit. I'm glad these two cars don't have their storied names on some economy tin box somewhere.

[Sixty8panther]

True. I'd rather wait untill 2008 to see a production Camaro but have it be the AMAZING product it will be rather than have 2003-2008 Camaro that is jus some rebadge of a G6 coupe or whatever.

Thank God.

[ocnblu]

The photographic record is all that remains. That, and maybe some iron oxide.

[Enzora]

I think by the time the 70s ended the Mustang name was in the dumpster because of the Mustang II. (biggest POS to ever try to call itself a pony car) Horrible styling and terrible stance.... too compact and a lack of any V8s made that car lamer than the Pinto!

The only year the II didn't have a V8 offering was in 74. They quickly fixed this and offered a 302 in them for the rest of the generation.

I agree the styling was bad. Throwing a Torino-style grille on it was inexcusable laziness on the part of Ford's designers. I'm not so upset about the decrease in size, though. The mustang was in need of downsizing after the 71-73 model years, and Ford took it too far (should've just reduced it back down to the size of the 64 1/2) but I'd rather have that than the huge boulevard cruiser size of the 70s Camaros.

[Sixty8panther]

Sorry enzora but I think sales figures telll the story: the more expensive Camaro sold like Hotcakes while Ford tried to disavow the II with the Fox redesign on 1979.

I think I'd rather walk or buy a Toyota Crown rather than buy a Mustang II.

[Robert Hall]

Yes, you are right about the Firebird.  It truely did stay the course.  Camaro did falter a bit.  I'm glad these two cars don't have their storied names on some economy tin box somewhere.

The '80-81 Turbo T/A was kind of a low point...not much power, but plenty of flash...

[Enzora]

Sorry enzora but I think sales figures tell the story: the more expensive Camaro sold like Hotcakes while Ford tried to disavow the II with the Fox redesign on 1979.

I think I'd rather walk or buy a Toyota Crown rather than buy a Mustang II.

Sales Figures, eh? Here are the sales figures for the Mustang II vs 74-78 Camaros:

74: Mustang-386,000 Camaro-151,000

75: Mustang-186,000 Camaro-146,000

76: Mustang-188,000 Camaro-183,000

77: Mustang-153,000 Camaro-218,000

78: Mustang-192,000 Camaro-272,000

Not exactly what I'd call total dominance by the Camaro. The Mustang II was hardly a sales flop and was embraced in the gas crisis times of the 1970s. I agree that the Mustang II strayed pretty far from its pony car roots, but so did the F-bodies, just in a different direction. Unless you consider an eleven inch increase in length to be staying true to the pony car formula.

Edited January 9, 2006 by Enzora

[knightfan26917]

Camaro really always stayed true.  It didn't slap the name on some lamer.

Heh...yeah, while Camaro always stayed true, Chevrolet saved the "lamer slaps" for the Impala, Monte Carlo and Malibu....

*sighs*

Ah, well ... it's good to know that other auto manufacturers slapped some good names on lamers, too, and that I'm not alone in being unhappy with the manufacturer of my favorite car....

Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker

MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/

Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html

"My time here is over" ... Patty Loveless ... 'How Can I Help You Say Goodbye?'

[razoredge]

My buddies mother whom was like my stand in mother had a new Mustang II I think it was a 74, the knotch roof too. I actually drove it every week when we went to the city, it was not a bad car but I couldnt live with the styling nor the Maverick for that matter. Enzoras right they sold like hotcakes, they were everywhere and all us youngsters scratched our heads and wondered why. The same answer can be seen today in the Camry or the Accord, the vast population does not want a pony car or performance car or bad ass styling they want practical pleasent utility what ever that may be during any givin era. Like the Rabbit and Horizon years.

As for that Challenger I had forgot about them ? But do remember now. was that a Mitsu ? Was that Shelby or was that pre Shelby ? What was it Shelby did ??? Daytona & ???. Boy that was a long time ago. I remember reading the test on the Shelby Mopar cars. Those were sad times for performance and styling let me tell ya. thats why I say so many that bust on the domestic during these times did not know what was going on. One side still wanted large heavy and V8s while it was clear they needed to downsize for the frugle that needed mileage and changing times. At the same time needed to meet emissions and CAFE and safety and big displacement nothing matters V8s was all they ever knew. everything just went to hell. The Asains and Germans only needed to keep doing what they had always done and ship them to market. Domestic need to rethink the automobile while the population was tuggin and pullin in every direction. Bad times, regretable.

Alls better now though ey ?

[HarleyEarl]

The Mustang II sold so well, because the 'Mustang' name was so powerful and so ingrained in people's minds, they could have named a wheelbarrow Mustang II and it would have sold. The downsizing was not so much the issue because it had gotten bloated in the previous generation. The issue was it's ungainly looks and the 4 cyl engine. Yes it was victim of those regulated huge bumpers...that didn't help.

[CARBIZ]

Ford got lucky when the Mustang II came out right at the height of the gas crunch. Later, a lot of its sales were bled away by the Granada/Monarch sales which also became huge sales successes for the times.

We armchair critics can judge Ford now, through the retro-eyeglasses of 30 years, but it was a car of its times.

Drive a '76 Civic for comparison!

[razoredge]

  Drive a '76 Civic for comparison!

Really ! I had one of them 75 CVCC a real class leader

[z28luvr01]

While we're on the subject of cars that got castrated in the 70s and 80s, anyone remember the iconic "Charger" of the mid 80s?

Now here's the drag race I've been waiting my whole life to see:

[razoredge]

Thats it ! the Shelby, it was kinda hard to stomach growing up in the 60's but today Im glad at least they tried. I can find some merit in it. Thats a Horizon I mentioned too. Now what was Plymouths version of this car called ? Im pretty sure they both got one.

Hey it was a Hemi - Turbocharged Hemi

[knightfan26917]

While we're on the subject of cars that got castrated in the 70s and 80s, anyone remember the iconic "Charger" of the mid 80s?

*nods*

Yep...I sure do...lol.

Heh...and that IS the car that was switched for the Chevrolet Beretta in that Knight Rider 2000 movie I mentioned in another thread. In the scene, Beretta cop cars are chasing a van. When someone in the back of the van shoots out a bomb/grenade to hit one of the cop cars, the cop car changes from a Beretta to one of those "Chargers" ... right before the bomb hits and the car explodes...heh.

[Sixty8panther]

KF:

I sincerely hope you're not trying to make fun of one of the best made for TV movies of all time!

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

Okay I'm kidding.

I have the 1st season of Knight Rider on DVD and that movie was thrown in as a bonus. KITT as a '57 Chevy is just bizzare. Even more disturbing was the fact that KITTs new body (the RED Banschee looking thing) is FWD. I was traumatized by this as a Kid. It's the automotive equivalent of that nazi execution video on Rotten.com. Sickening, stomach turning, WRONG in every way possible and depressing.

[Bimmer325]

I'm so glad I missed the 80s. Cars were $h! back then.

[Sixty8panther]

Say what you will about the 1980s but know this:

1. RWD was abundant and affordable

2. Imports were still known by most of the public to be the $h!-box tin cans they are

3. We had three Pony cars all selling well and getting better every day

4. A Cadillac was still a Cadillac and a truck was still a TRUCK.

5. BOF was not considered a bad thing for a land-yacht

6. Two doors were available on 80% on GMs lineup.

7. Styling was still somewhat daring and interesting, instead of bland & homoginized.

Edited January 19, 2006 by Sixty8panther

[Sixty8panther]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Buick-Grand-National-

[Flybrian]

7. Styling was still somewhat daring and interesting, instead of bland & homoginized.

Yup. None of that at all...

You can always find three things in any decade be it the 50s, 60s, 80s, or today: the $h!boxes, the outstanding cars, and the ones everyone else drove.

Also, please remove that Merkur XRTSI428TCSUITLIAL42XXIY. What a piece of junk that was.

[razoredge]

I'm so glad I missed the 80s.  Cars were $h! back then.

yea they sure were

[knightfan26917]

I have the 1st season of Knight Rider on DVD and that movie was thrown in as a bonus. KITT as a '57 Chevy is just bizzare. Even more disturbing was the fact that KITTs new body (the RED Banschee looking thing) is FWD. I was traumatized by this as a Kid. It's the automotive equivalent of that nazi execution video on Rotten.com. Sickening, stomach turning, WRONG in every way possible and depressing.

*chuckles*

That reaction sounds all too familiar to me .

BUT...that new body was FWD? That I did NOT know...aye.

Anyway....I really oughtta look into getting Knight Rider on DVD ... already have Seasons 1 and 2 of The Dukes of Hazzard.

My only issue with TV shows on DVDs ... the more I see what is out there, the more I want ... and the more time I'll spend watching TV instead of doing other things. What a vicious circle...lol.

Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker

MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/

Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html

"It's coming down to nothing more than apathy" ... The Fray ... 'Over My Head'

[Hudson]

The FWD Charger of the 1980s was a good car for its time...and far better than the four-cylinder (and probably even the V6) Camaro of the same vintage (who said Camaros weren't lame at any point?).

There were good cars in the 1980s, but historical perspective needs to be used. Cars of today are better...and many cars of the 1980s were better than many cars of the 1960s (and even more cars of the 1970s).

Oh...and the Merkur XR4Ti was a decent car. Mine was fun to drive.

[Sixty8panther]

The XR4Ti was a neat little car... turbocharged, and more importantly it had a longitudenaly mounted motor. You know why!

As far as the Crown Vic/G.Marq. they were still more differentiated than they are today. Overall the 80s were not so bad. They were a step forward in the right direction as compared to the dark era that began in 1973.

KF:

At the end of the movie (in the last 90 sec.) KITT does a pathetic FWD Burnaout that a 1992 Beratta GTU would laugh at. That's how I know it was FWD. Probably built off a Probe or Cavi Z24 chassis.

[LosAngeles]

Universal prob. couldn't get the real deal Banshee for the movie (and styling for the 93 Firebird was inspired by it)....but talk was ramping up at the time of the F-bodies going front-drive....GM backpedaled at the last minute.

Yeah, naysayers like Jim Rome aside, the XR4Ti (and more importantly the Sierra group as a whole) was a car I would own to this day...

But to be real, a lot of bread and butter 80's fare DID look alike. Still my favorite car era.

[knightfan26917]

KF:

At the end of the movie (in the last 90 sec.) KITT does a pathetic FWD Burnaout that a 1992 Beratta GTU would laugh at. That's how I know it was FWD. Probably built off a Probe or Cavi Z24 chassis.

Heh. I think that's downright scary that I didn't notice this ... or, if I did, I don't remember noticing it. Now, I'm going to have to pick up a copy of that flick ... just to see that scene ... lol.

BTW, Sixty8...you sure you don't want a prize for the "Knight's Challenge" ... even one with a pic of my car in it?

[mrmonte]

Cars werent $h! in the eighties at least the first half of the decade. You had lots of choices, I feel a lot more than today. Its frustrating that say you like a car as a sedan but you might need a wagon and no wagon is offered. I feel a lot of consumers turned away in the 80's because of stuff like GM turning all the full size cars into econo turds and buillding them crappy. GM still sold a lot of cars then though.

[razoredge]

If GM, Ford and Chrysler had of stayed with the program of the 70's which was what they had at market in the early eightys they would have ZERO passenger car market today.....in other words...gone. Maybe just truck manufacturers.

The H, C & E body BO&P cars were not "econo turds" though they were good for 10 extra mpg and more performance. old style full size B body was still available in Caprice, LeSabre wagon not sure about Olds but obviously demand was poor and sales slipped.

[razoredge]

I find it interesting that some feel the market turned to import "econo turds" because the full size cars were reworked into something more economical and practical for the times. I mean, it seems funny that because you could no longer get a B Regency for example you would decide to go Civic or Jetta. I just dont think that was the case. It was such a divided market and the Domestic were caught in the middle being pulled by both arms and pissing off both sides of the economy versus HUGE crowd. They pissed off the economy car people by having subpar product and the HUGE car crowd was pissed off by the resized FWD full size cars that actually were excellent cars. The Japs and Germans only needed to continue what they were already doing, not rework everthing while trying to deprogram the American mindset, they just needed to wait for the mindset to come to them. Today we see the end results in much of the perception problems.

[lakefire]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5...ional-%2787.jpg

Quoted for truth. THe 80's had some of the best looking cars ever in my opinion.

I mean, where else can you find a car that is worth twice what it was new other than the 80's:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-BUICK-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Edited January 21, 2006 by lakefire

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

ughh 80s cars are for the most part so devoid of any design whatsoever, a box... that was the basic theme of the 80s, make a box car... yay how exciting, some cars pulled it off looking OK but most just look boring and non-agressive. the 80s followed by the 70s turned out some pretty dull products, cars in the 90s started to get a little better but not too much... the 2000s has brought some more excitement and manufacturues are starting to stray from one-anothers designs.

[mute]

alright i was at the shops in town and two cars drove by that made my head spin........

an olds 442 heavily modified

a buick GNX heavily modified

tell me those cars were $h! just try to

[Flybrian]

As far as the Crown Vic/G.Marq. they were still more differentiated than they are today. Overall the 80s were not so bad. They were a step forward in the right direction as compared to the dark era that began in 1973.

I'd say 1992-1997 were the most differentiated the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis have ever been with different grilles, lighting configurations front and rear, dashboards, and especially different greenhouses (6-window vs. 4-window).

[ocnblu]

I'm at a loss for why Ford thinks it's not worth it to give Mercury more of its own identity these days. Sameness breeds boredom, and Ford division's much larger dealer network almost guarantees Mercury will get lost in the shuffle. Edited January 21, 2006 by ocnblu

[lakefire]

I saw a Typhoon today...*fwap* *Fwap* *fwap*

EdiT: Wait, those may have been early 90's

Edited January 22, 2006 by lakefire

[Sixty8panther]

Heh.  I think that's downright scary that I didn't notice this ... or, if I did, I don't remember noticing it. 

You know what they say about the mind blockign traumatic memories.

Yes just buy the Knight Rider DVDs season One. The KR2000 Movie is on there.

[knightfan26917]

You know what they say about the mind blockign traumatic memories.

I suggest you be careful .

*sighs*

I gotta find time to go pick up that DVD set....aye.

[Camino LS6]

Thats it ! the Shelby, it was kinda hard to stomach growing up in the 60's but today Im glad at least they tried. I can find some merit in it. Thats a Horizon I mentioned too. Now what was Plymouths version of this car called  ? Im pretty sure they both got one.

Hey it was a Hemi - Turbocharged Hemi

The base cars were the Plymouth Horizon TC3 and the Dodge Omni 024

God! Why do I remember that?!!!

The 80's were a time of slow death and a slower crawl from depths of automotive nightmare. It was the time the domestics could have really made a play to come back strong and missed their chance by trying to imitate the Japanese. They thought they could play the FWD game and compete- they were wrong,tragically wrong. There were bright spots though, begining with the '82 Camaro and the first Fox-bodied Mustang GT with the 302(5.0) in 1983 I think, and hitting a High Water mark with the '87 Buick GNX.

[Sixty8panther]

Camino: check out this thread.... third car down.

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...wtopic=5233&hl=

[Camino LS6]

Like I said,68, a high water mark. That spotless example just sold for 50% more than it cost new(including dealer markups).

The very next year the RWD platform it was based on was gone, replaced by a very forgetable FWD thing bearing the Regal name.

[Sixty8panther]

The very next year the RWD platform it was based on was gone, replaced by a very forgetable FWD thing bearing the Regal name.

I think the day that GM cancelled the G-bodys is one of the few foundation cracks that led to today's crappy diminishing market share wiht toyota kiscking ass.... Like I've said a million times... if GM starts building AMERICAN cars again they will regain merket share. But wannabee Toyota will not sell to people who would be in the market for a GM car.

Damn it... you can;t always fight fire with fire!