Rant: The Half-Ass Double Stop.

[SAmadei]

I don't have hardly any faith in humanity, as it seems like it has gotten impossible for people to drive a car worth a damn... but I've noticed a new trend in drivers' habit, at least in the Phila-NJ-NYC area, that I have so far called the Half-Ass Double Stop.

So, how its done... you come to a complete stop at a stop sign, with the intention to make a left turn. You wait... but traffic is heavy in either direction. So you wait until there is nobody coming from your left for a bit and you pull halfway into the intersection. Now you sit... blocking traffic, as you wait until the traffic from the right gives you an opportunity to finish the turn. This is especially happens on boulevards, where there is a small median... but not enough space for a whole car to sit... but I've seen it happen all over the place.

This is one of the most inconsiderate and, at night, dangerous things I've seen on a regular basis. And some of these idiots are pulling out into traffic that has to slam on the brakes, either because they are blocked or because they think the person is going to barrel into them.

I imagine its also a real PITA if there is an accident... as the car blocking traffic is in the intersection first, but should not have entered the intersection since they could not clear the intersection... but I imagine that this is still a gray area, based upon the car that has rightaway's speed or ability to avoid the accident.

Anyone else seeing this kind of behavior?

[cletus8269]

oh yeah we have a terrible entrance exit to a shopping center, no matter how much sense it makes people try to pull out between the stop lights that flank both sides of the store... i had a guy pull out and completely block the far Lt lane with his truck ( just happened to have been my lane) instead of slowing i sped up and merged into the lane next to me (there werent any cars beside me so he must have been banking on me doing that) at 10yds i fully got over missing the truck by maybe a foot. the passenger threw his hand up at me... tools.

[daves87rs]

Yep. Seen that and more around here...

My fav right now is those who pull out onto traffic without even looking.....

I swear the Balt is going to need brakes too.....

[SAmadei]

instead of slowing i sped up and merged into the lane next to me (there werent any cars beside me so he must have been banking on me doing that) at 10yds i fully got over missing the truck by maybe a foot. the passenger threw his hand up at me... tools.

I understand the idea of having a "purposeful near miss" to help clue them in to what could have happened, but they don't even look... or notice... you have to fly by so close that their vehicle rocks from the air wake of your vehicle. Then they just figure you are the idiot for driving so fast or not paying attention to THEM.

I kind of blame the proliferation of ABS for some of these habits. When I learned to drive, there was no ABS... any mistake you made resulted in a loud skidding of brakes and much embarrassment. Now the other person does something stupid, and I have to slam the brakes hard enough to cause delicate objects to rocket off the back seat onto the dashboard, and they don't comprehend that they just missed a trip to the body shop and/or hospital.

I wish my car had a hand brake... the parking brakes on my Bonne stop the car quickly, but I want some noise.

[SAmadei]

Yep. Seen that and more around here...

Don't get me started on 'more'... ;-) The tip of that iceberg is the dude who made a U-turn in the one way High Speed EZ-Pass lane in front of me recently.

[daves87rs]

Don't get me started on 'more'... ;-) The tip of that iceberg is the dude who made a U-turn in the one way High Speed EZ-Pass lane in front of me recently.

Nice....

[ocnblu]

Samadei, I give them NO room when they do that... and they don't care if your breeze rocks their POS car. Yes, it happens here, too, and it is ridiculous. I need a train horn.

[cletus8269]

I wish my car had a hand brake... the parking brakes on my Bonne stop the car quickly, but I want some noise.

$300 solution to get some noise been thinkin about getting one to face backwards for tailgaters hehehe

[cletus8269]

Samadei, I give them NO room when they do that... and they don't care if your breeze rocks their POS car. Yes, it happens here, too, and it is ridiculous. I need a train horn.

dang beat me to the suggestion.

[loki]

it's not so much what you describe, exactly, but using the turn lane to merge. those drivers kinda scream, i'm not a good driver, or i'm to impatient to wait for an opening. i never try to do this, unless i'm in a place i have never been in...? people should know what their vehicle is capable of and use it thusly when they need to.

[Intrepidation]

It is dangerous and I don't condone it, but i can see why they do it. You know why? Because all of the other assholes can't give up 15 seconds of their worthless lives to stop and let them go normally. So they figure if they get out part way and one side stop,s maybe the other side will.

[SAmadei]

Samadei, I give them NO room when they do that... and they don't care if your breeze rocks their POS car. Yes, it happens here, too, and it is ridiculous. I need a train horn.

Heh, heh... I've thought of the train horn or semi horn... I wonder if they make a 'skreeeech!!!' horn?

Actually, I've wanted a public address microphone system... our NJ Transit buses have them to communicate to riders outside the bus. I just want them to berate the worst of the worst drivers in front of me. I'm not sure they are legal, though. While one would likely get me more middle fingers, it also might get me thrown bottles, cans or bullets.

it's not so much what you describe, exactly, but using the turn lane to merge. those drivers kinda scream, i'm not a good driver, or i'm to impatient to wait for an opening. i never try to do this, unless i'm in a place i have never been in...? people should know what their vehicle is capable of and use it thusly when they need to.

I'm assuming you are talking about the a left turn into the center turning lane of the road you are turning onto... I don't like it, but at least there is space to do it. I've only done this a time or two from one particular parking lot... which is very difficult in daylight due to a long distance to the nearest light and lots of active businesses, so there is constantly a couple stragglers.

I'm not a real fan of the center turn lanes... I prefer when the left turn lanes are specifically for one direction or the other. Of course, I'm biased as several 4 lane roads around here where restriped to 2 lanes with 2 half-width shoulders and a center left turn lane... one in particular HAS NOTHING TO TURN INTO except unbroken forest.

At least its not passing in the center turning lane... that's just wrong.

It is dangerous and I don't condone it, but i can see why they do it. You know why? Because all of the other assholes can't give up 15 seconds of their worthless lives to stop and let them go normally. So they figure if they get out part way and one side stop,s maybe the other side will.

Well, we choose where we drive... I avoid these PITA roads, or at least take into consideration that I fully expect to wait a while.

If one stops or slows to let someone out in this situation, then everyone gets confused (compromising safety, as protocol has been broken), traffic immediately starts to back-up (making things worst... especially for the people in line at the stop sign) and there is no guarantee that someone in oncoming traffic will also stop and let them in, so now you are giving up your 15 seconds, 30 seconds, etc. and holding up an extra lane of traffic. I always try to let people into traffic, especially if they signal properly... but I'm not going to stop from 50 mph hoping they can jump in across another lane of moving traffic. I have a inherent responsibility to the people behind me to use my lane space and clear it as safely and quickly as I can to keep traffic going.

I also shutter at the idea of letting a person who does this into traffic, as the NJ courts have already said that you take responsibility for the safety of someone who your wave into traffic, if they get in an accident... as absurd as that seems... its the same as being a flagman for a backing truck.

Studies show that after 20 seconds of waiting, people start increasing the allowable risk in order to get moving. You know, I was in a tough situation like this when I took my driving test... part of the test involved a left turn onto a very busy road... and while the car I was driving has plenty of go, I could not jostle the tester... so I had to wait. And wait. And wait. We sat there for about 5~6 minutes before there was an opportunity... I told the instructor that I never saw such a situation and he reassured me that we were fine to sit there all day. Even today, I would have had to sit... or make a compromise... a right then a U-turn, to avoid a 5 minute wait.

The flaw is that the thinking here is that one can force someone to stop... but we know that's not a a good bet in today's cell phone texting clueless public.

Somewhat related, but not quite, I saw this and thought you guys would get a laugh...

http://files.sharenator.com/fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu-25140.swf

[Intrepidation]

Impatience, lack of common sense, and general stupidity are what causes wrecks. If people used their brains and weren't in such a damn hurry to get to the next red light all time, there would be a lot less accidents.

I do whatever I can to avoid sucky streets, rotaries, etc. When I come home from the North I have to cross part of 110, which is an absolute hell to cross any time after 9am up until 10pm. I used to go to the one set of lights on that road, because then I had the lights on my side even though it was further away from my house. However, after my mom was T-boned by idiot who ran a red light, I've not gone that way nearly as much. Usually what I will do is get to the part closer to my house and turn right, then go up the road and take a left onto one of the side roads to get home.

I let people go when I can, obviously not at high speed at 50 or something, or when some jackass is riding my own ass.

On the flip side of your senario, if someone is in one lane trying to turn left on a busy 25 mph two lane road, yet no one in the opposing lane stops to let them go, it backs up traffic in the other lane which then blocks left turns for the opposing lane and then more traffic gets back upped. All because no one would let the one car go. It happens multiples times a day on that same stretch of 110.

[ocnblu]

I believe in right-of-way, and fully expect to wait my turn at stop signs, yield signs and stoplights. Some people just. don't. get it. Pulling out into traffic onto a street divided by a median and blocking traffic that has the right-of-way is asking for all kinds of trouble and should be punished.

Also, if a person is in a crosswalk, I stop and let them go. If they try to cross in some random spot, they can wait until there are no cars coming.

[FAPTurbo]

Do they at least signal to turn left before doing this double stop?

In my city, signal stalks are sold as an option.

[Intrepidation]

I never let someone go who doesn't use their turn signals.

[trinacriabob]

... but I've noticed a new trend in drivers' habit, at least in the Phila-NJ-NYC area, that I have so far called the Half-Ass Double Stop.

... as the car blocking traffic is in the intersection first, but should not have entered the intersection since they could not clear the intersection... but I imagine that this is still a gray area, based upon the car that has rightaway's speed or ability to avoid the accident.

Yes, this one is really stupid. It's also dangerous and inconsiderate.

However, here's one that I've seen happen to people that are not being inconsiderate occurs during heavy traffic: they follow traffic on a green light across an intersection and then it just comes to a halt, with the rear half of the car jutting out into the intersection that should have theoretically been cleared. It's a tough one to judge and I guess that's why they have the rule that you have to wait behind the line until you can fully make your way across the intersection. Still, well-meaning people get caught up in this.

By the way, in Italian, your pet peeve would be "una mezzo culo doppia fermata." One of the first things I taught my cousins over there is "mezzo culo," or "half-ass." Even my parents picked up on this term when we were teenagers, mostly referring to my hasty and incomplete handling of the yard work chore.

Edited November 5, 2009 by trinacriabob

[Robert Hall]

One thing I see occasionally is some rectum sitting in the left turn lane at a busy intersection w/ their right blinker on, the arrow for the turn is green, but they are just sitting there, because they got in the turn lane by mistake, and the 2-3 through lanes are currently red....

[SAmadei]

On the flip side of your senario, if someone is in one lane trying to turn left on a busy 25 mph two lane road, yet no one in the opposing lane stops to let them go, it backs up traffic in the other lane which then blocks left turns for the opposing lane and then more traffic gets back upped. All because no one would let the one car go. It happens multiples times a day on that same stretch of 110.

There are normally quite a few more people waiting at the intersection, so do you stop and let everybody stop, go, stop, go and make their lefts? Thats one of the problems with trying to be nice... you get a pile of people trying to blow through a stop sign to take advantage of your kindness. Last week, I was in the left turn lane just past a traffic light making a left across two lanes of traffic into a parking lot... the light turned red behind me and traffic backed up to block the exit of the parking lot, but not the entrance... the next car looked at me and stopped short and waved me in... I start to turn, and the two idiots who were trying to make a left out of the parking lot drive the 'no left turns' concrete wedge, drive towards oncoming traffic and block me in. I can't reverse, as there is a person behind me and my vision is blocked... they can't back up because more traffic making the proper right has blocked up the exit. We all have to wait for the light to change, then finally there was enough room for use to untangle. The good samariton moves forward just in time to get another red light.

Do they at least signal to turn left before doing this double stop?

Can't tell... they are in the middle of the street with that corner of the car pointed somewhat away from me, so I can't tell. I'd look in my rearview, but I'm too business getting my jaw off the floor looking at how fast traffic can back up due to the HADS driver.

I never let someone go who doesn't use their turn signals.

Sometimes you just can't tell... but it I'm sure they don't, they don't get any nice from me.

"Sorry, I'm all out of nice today, and I'm currently dishing out indifference. Take it before you get a fistful of hate." ;-)

However, here's one that I've seen happen to people that are not being inconsiderate occurs during heavy traffic: they follow traffic on a green light across an intersection and then it just comes to a halt, with the rear half of the car jutting out into the intersection that should have theoretically been cleared. It's a tough one to judge and I guess that's why they have the rule that you have to wait behind the line until you can fully make your way across the intersection. Still, well-meaning people get caught up in this.

Definately a case of don't enter the intersection if you can't clear it. But the problem is that it seems like only 14 people are aware of that law.

Speaking of being burned by your own kindness... there is an red light I drive through that has a T-intersection fairly near... so, traffic commonly backs up the the intersection... and naturally, I stop short because I don't have enough room to clear the intersection and out of kindness because I know if I block the intersection even slightly, the idiot behind me will, too. So I wave the oncoming drivers to make a left in front of me... but the people trying to make a right in front of me onto the street I'm on block the intersection. Ugh. So the light changes and I'm screwed... I have the right of way, but the people making lefts in front of me won't stop making lefts... and if they do, I've got people blowing through the stop sign to my right wholesale and can't get into the intersection. What a PITA.

By the way, in Italian, your pet peeve would be "una mezzo culo doppia fermata." One of the first things I taught my cousins over there is "mezzo culo," or "half-ass." Even my parents picked up on this term when we were teenagers, mostly referring to my hasty and incomplete handling of the yard work chore.

Non-sequitor of the day. LOL.

Reminds me of when I had a minor epithany that a certain NFL player's name was translated as "Vinnie Greenhead". Needless to say the term 'testamerde' was quickly added to the vocabulary.

[Robert Hall]

If there is no turn arrow, I don't go left (unless the street is completely deserted). I use the 3 rights to make a left technique that UPS uses. One thing that's driven me crazy in Phoenix and LA are all the intersections w/o turn lanes or turn arrows, or a turn lane w/o a turn arrow, or the turn arrow not active at some times of the day.

Edited November 5, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[SAmadei]

If there is no turn arrow, I don't go left (unless the street is completely deserted). I use the 3 rights to make a left technique that UPS uses.

That's why Jersey invented the miniature version of the '3 rights alternative to a left'... the Jughandle. We even optimized up to three traffic lights out of the equation. ;-)

[Robert Hall]

That's why Jersey invented the miniature version of the '3 rights alternative to a left'... the Jughandle. We even optimized up to three traffic lights out of the equation. ;-)

Not sure if I've ever encountered one of those...are they a Jersey exclusive? Is that like an exit ramp that loops around and down to another road (w/ an underpass)?

I like rotaries/traffic circles...getting more and more of them on new freeway exits and in subdivisions out here..

[SAmadei]

Not sure if I've ever encountered one of those...are they a Jersey exclusive? Is that like an exit ramp that loops around and down to another road (w/ an underpass)?

Not exclusive, but invented and very common here. It kind of goes hand-in-hand with Jersey barriers.

Since many of Jersey's roads are ancient, and we are truly flatlanders in much of the state, we only have overpasses on the largest arteries... a lot of our biggest intersections have traffic lights and are 6 lanes or more crossed by another 6 laner, with Jersey barriers in the center of the road, so left turns are absolutely out of the question (however, some idiots still try). Instead you get sign with the familiar Jersey phrases "All turns from right lane" or the "U and left turns" with an arrow forward to continue throught he intersection... the jughandle is like a cloverleaf, but it puts you right back to the intersection you just crossed... a pet peeve of mine is when you have to wait through a full red light twice at the same intersection.

I like rotaries/traffic circles...getting more and more of them on new freeway exits and in subdivisions out here..

One day they will be villified like the bird flu.

I really like circles, and Jersey and Massachusetts both installed them wholesale 80+ years ago. They were great in the days before traffic light technology could handle a complex intersection and when brakes were a precious commodity. Unfortunately, they break down at high traffic levels... and the law right of way laws have been obscure, so people don't know how to navigate them. Jersey has been killing circles off since 1990 or so... I only know of a couple left.

One of the issues is that NJ law was unclear if the circle was one intersection or four separate intersections... and years ago, they didn't have explicit yeild signage. If you treat the circel as one intersection, the car in the circle first has the right of way... but if the circle is treated as four small intersections, you have two cars coming to the merge at the same time, the car to the right has the right of way... the car in the circle would have to stop. Adding more confusion is the guideline used by police officers when a collision occurs, it to give right of way based on "historic preferences"... well, how can you expect to know the history of the circle the first time your approach it?

I prefer the single intersection right of way... as the four intersection right of way can lead to people entering the intersection in high traffic volumes and spiralling in, unable to leave... leading to deadlock. This might sound absurd, but I've seen it happen on the route 52 circel in Somers Point... I had to drive through a parking lot to escape the traffic disaster caused by a nearby raised drawbridge.

I still love circles... when goofing off with friends we used to circle around them endlessly... or use them as a skidpad. ;-)

[Robert Hall]

Not exclusive, but invented and very common here. It kind of goes hand-in-hand with Jersey barriers.

Since many of Jersey's roads are ancient, and we are truly flatlanders in much of the state, we only have overpasses on the largest arteries... a lot of our biggest intersections have traffic lights and are 6 lanes or more crossed by another 6 laner, with Jersey barriers in the center of the road, so left turns are absolutely out of the question (however, some idiots still try). Instead you get sign with the familiar Jersey phrases "All turns from right lane" or the "U and left turns" with an arrow forward to continue throught he intersection... the jughandle is like a cloverleaf, but it puts you right back to the intersection you just crossed... a pet peeve of mine is when you have to wait through a full red light twice at the same intersection.

Ah, the jughandle functions like the trick I've used occasionally on a couple intersections that have no left turn during rush hour--I go through the intersection, make a right turn into a parking lot and another right turn onto the street I would have made the left turn on had it not been rush hour..

[SAmadei]

Ah, the jughandle functions like the trick I've used occasionally on a couple intersections that have no left turn during rush hour--I go through the intersection, make a right turn into a parking lot and another right turn onto the street I would have made the left turn on had it not been rush hour..

Ah, circumventing a traffic device... two points here. ;-)

Years ago, when I was delivering a newspaper bulk route in a town with particularly ornery police officers, there was a intersection with a REALLY long light on a timer... there was a bar on the corner, and they got a unofficial free subscription to the newspaper in order to give us the excuse to avoid the light by cutting through the lot.

[Robert Hall]

Ah, circumventing a traffic device... two points here. ;-)

Years ago, when I was delivering a newspaper bulk route in a town with particularly ornery police officers, there was a intersection with a REALLY long light on a timer... there was a bar on the corner, and they got a unofficial free subscription to the newspaper in order to give us the excuse to avoid the light by cutting through the lot.

The intersections in PHX I've done this at a few times has a Checkers auto parts w/ a huge, empty parking lot and the other has a shopping center w/ several restaurants I frequent. Phoenix has these two streets, 7th St and 7th Ave that have reversible 'death lanes' in the middle that during rush hour have no left turns for the lane that otherwise would be the turn lane. I used to commute on them every day, 4 lanes in one direction and 3 in the other, then the reverse in the evening into and out of the downtown.

[SAmadei]

The intersections in PHX I've done this at a few times has a Checkers auto parts w/ a huge, empty parking lot and the other has a shopping center w/ several restaurants I frequent. Phoenix has these two streets, 7th St and 7th Ave that have reversible 'death lanes' in the middle that during rush hour have no left turns for the lane that otherwise would be the turn lane. I used to commute on them every day, 4 lanes in one direction and 3 in the other, then the reverse in the evening into and out of the downtown.

Don't worry, I'm not judging, as long as your help keep the traffic moving and aren't driving through a playground to do it, its cool with me.

Phoenix seems to have grown since I was there last... in 1980.

They floated using reversible, one way, taxi-only lanes in Atlantic City, but, luckily, it hasn't happened. I just don't see how it could work here, as we don't have real predictable traffic patterns. I think Newark still has reversible downtown lanes.

We did have a reversible lane on the Expressway bridge... with a movable zipper barrier... paid something like a quarter mill to buy the barrier mover... they moved the barrier a half dozen times then came up with a new plan. Sold the barrier mover to the Delaware River Port Authority for a bargain. I still visit the thing from time to time on the Walt Whitman Bridge that my city income taxes helped pay for.

[Robert Hall]

Don't worry, I'm not judging, as long as your help keep the traffic moving and aren't driving through a playground to do it, its cool with me.

Phoenix seems to have grown since I was there last... in 1980.

Yeah, since 1980 the population of the PHX metro has gone up by about 50%. My sister first moved out here in '80 after college, I remember coming out here to visit as a kid then also. Second only to the Las Vegas area in the 90s for growth rate. Wild to have this many people in the desert. It's like a little LA but hotter w/o an ocean. Sprawl, sprawl, sprawl.

[The O.C.]

One thing I see occasionally is some rectum sitting in the left turn lane at a busy intersection w/ their right blinker on, the arrow for the turn is green, but they are just sitting there, because they got in the turn lane by mistake, and the 2-3 through lanes are currently red....

Ugh.....I love these threads because there is SO MUCH that I have to rant on about other drivers.....and urs above is another prime example......

Let's see.....a particular pet peeve of mine is slow driving......I mean unusually slow driving for the conditions......like peetering onto the freeway when traffic is flying at 80+ mph......or being in the right hand lane going like 55mph.....when I'm one lane to the left travelling at a sane and almost legal 70pmh.....and you decide to change lanes and get in front of me......while still going 55mph......

Or people that simply won't keep up with the flow of traffic.....even if traffic is not exceeding the speed limit.....

[ShadowDog]

The problem with the half-ass double stop maneuver is one stupid driver is completely relying on two separate moving vehicles to notice them. All too common the following scenario could be the potential outcome:

Stupid Mr. Half-Ass pulls into intersection, blocking Mr. Unfortunate in left-hand traffic.

Eventually, Mr. Courteous in right-hand traffic notices the plight of Mr. Half-Ass and slows to let them in.

Mr. Impatient assumes Mr. Courteous is one of those Mr. Oblivious people, wanting to make a left-hand turn across traffic without a signal light and skirts around him on the shoulder to his right.

Mr. Impatient meets Mr. Half-Ass and everyone gets a front row seat to the calamity.

Any number to bad things can happen along these same lines. Any number of ways to get injured because Mr. Half-Ass is a complete idiot behind the wheel, and Mr. Impatient makes matters worse.

Personally, I have a problem with people like Mr. Impatient because they're the type to stop at an intersection, but then release their brake and coast as I'm turning off the street in front of them and have to widen my turn radius because they aren't paying attention to their front end entering the intersection.